What do you think is the worse ssj form?

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What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Supersaiyanbulla » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:46 am

Gonna have to go with ultra super saiyan this form is completely useless in fights has poor showing and it's questionable why it exist.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by SonReggie » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:24 am

Well, not going to count Ultra Super Saiyan - it didn't really feel like a form in itself, more a suppliment to the Super Saiyan transformation, and it was clearly little more than a stepping stone to SS2 (even if it was more of a lesson in how NOT to do it! )

Personally, whilst I like the appearance of it, I'd have to say SS3 at this point in time. I mean, it was/is a stamina drain. Even when it was the most powerful Saiyan transformation I'd question how useful it was. Whilst I realise that some of it was down to Goku messing about, the fact that the transformation couldn't be maintained for too long never seemed very practical to me. And just how useful is a transformation that, once expired, requires 'recharge' and a fellow fighter to be used as a punchbag whilst said recharge is occurring.

And it has since been proven that SS2 can be pushed to match the power of SS3 - we saw this via future Trunks, Vegeta's 'my Bulma' rage boost and the fact that Goku skipped it , going from SS2 to SSG, when using his transformations in the earliest stages of his fight against Jiren.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Meshack » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:51 am

Super Saiyan 2 because it doesn’t change much from Super Saiyan in appearance.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:12 am

Super Saiyan Second Grade, Super Saiyan Third Grade, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan 4, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rage. They're all terrible in one way or another, and they just add to amount of Saiyans forms.

False Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God are... "acceptable" at best.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by TysonWine » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:32 am

SSJ 2 on anyone other than teen Gohan.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by MR.Mark » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:14 am

Meshack wrote:Super Saiyan 2 because it doesn’t change much from Super Saiyan in appearance.
It only looked cool on Gohan at the Cell game and Toriyama just slapped ssj2 on Goku and Vegeta in the Buu arc so they could keep up. Then SSJ3 came along already so Goku having SSJ2 was even more pointless.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Meshack » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:04 pm

MR.Mark wrote:
Meshack wrote:Super Saiyan 2 because it doesn’t change much from Super Saiyan in appearance.
It only looked cool on Gohan at the Cell game and Toriyama just slapped ssj2 on Goku and Vegeta in the Buu arc so they could keep up. Then SSJ3 came along already so Goku having SSJ2 was even more pointless.
It still doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t drastically change the appearance like Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 3 do. With all those who achieved 2, it’s kinda hard to tell unless you look for specific hair strands and bioelectricity. The only person you could understand transformed into 2 was Young Gohan at the Cell Games. After that, his 2 became the way it is now: not drastically different.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Totamo » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:21 pm

it will always be 3. destroys your body, never wins fight and looks bad to draw or animate.


super saiyan god at least led to something.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by DragonBallKing » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:34 pm

SSJ3 for me as well, I used to think it looked cool when I was a kid but nowadays :eh:
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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by MR.Mark » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:03 pm

Meshack wrote:
MR.Mark wrote:
Meshack wrote:Super Saiyan 2 because it doesn’t change much from Super Saiyan in appearance.
It only looked cool on Gohan at the Cell game and Toriyama just slapped ssj2 on Goku and Vegeta in the Buu arc so they could keep up. Then SSJ3 came along already so Goku having SSJ2 was even more pointless.
It still doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t drastically change the appearance like Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 3 do. With all those who achieved 2, it’s kinda hard to tell unless you look for specific hair strands and bioelectricity. The only person you could understand transformed into 2 was Young Gohan at the Cell Games. After that, his 2 became the way it is now: not drastically different.
I'm pretty much agreeing with you so i don't know what point you're trying to make.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:08 pm

I'm still a huge fan of SSJ3, and I've loved seeing different characters get the form over the years, but to me it's the weakest form. With such a heavy ki and stamina drain.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Bullza » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:04 pm

Meshack wrote:Super Saiyan 2 because it doesn’t change much from Super Saiyan in appearance.
Yep this one. It's that insignificant a change there's been endless debates over its use.

"Oh but in this shot here you can see his bang is slightly sharper than in this shot where he's just a Super Saiyan"

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by DragonBallKing » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:44 pm

DragonBallKing wrote:SSJ3 for me as well, I used to think it looked cool when I was a kid but nowadays :eh:
In fact I'm convinced SSJ3 didn't really need to be a thing and the base story would have been better without it.
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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Michsi » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:53 pm

Oddly enough I've warmed up towards the SSJ3 form a lot over the years. Though it looks best on Gotenks.

If we're going to include every form, then the bulky ssj form is probably the worst. Visually speaking, I still think the original SSJ god form is unappealing. Those eyes just don't look good on Goku imo.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:27 pm

It's a three way tie between Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan Grade Three.

Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan Grade Three have a quite undesirable appearances and are very impractical in battle. And Super Saiyan 2 fails to look distinctive on anyone other than Kid Gohan.

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Re: What do you think is the worst SS form?

Post by Alruneia » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:45 pm

It's between Grade 3 (USS) and SS3. Both of these forms are confirmed to have significant issues that hinder their usefulness. Grade 3 is so bulky that it's worthless (What's the point of having all the power in the world if you can't hit the guy?) while SS3 drains stamina to such a degree that Goku lost most of his 24-hour Earth visit in a few minutes. Between the two, I'd say Grade 3 has the more crippling drawback, so that'd be the worst one. Shouldn't this thread be in the in-universe discussion subforum?
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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by DHM211 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:17 pm

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

From an artistic standpoint, Super Saiyan Blue. It looked nice in Resurrection 'F', but for some reason it looks cheap and ugly in Super most of the time.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
From a power standpoint, Super Saiyan 3, for the obvious reasons. Artistically wise, 99% of the time its shown it looks fantastic though.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Zephyr » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:39 pm

Honestly, I really like most of the Super Saiyan forms. Almost all of them serve some kind of interesting narrative function. Some serve as the payoff for sometimes arcs-long set ups. Some completely subvert the audience's expectations. Some are really dicey powerups that have just as many drawbacks as they do benefits. And some serve to elucidate something poignant about the perspectives and personalities of the characters using them. The ones I would consider "the worst" would be the ones that, in stark contrast, don't serve really any interesting narrative function. But to demonstrate that contrast, I'll have to explain the why I like the ones I do.

Super Saiyan 1:
Is fantastic. It had been built up for the entire arc. It's a state that is presented, at the time of its first appearance, as something only Goku could have achieved: a calm heart awakened by rage, driving home how thoroughly and fundamentally screwed Vegeta was. It's Freeza's worst nightmare come to life, amidst the final battle with him.

Super Saiyan Grade II and Grade III:
These are interesting. We see Vegeta "transcend the Super Saiyan wall" first, and it's a great success. When things get more dire, Trunks steps up to transcend it even further. Since the arc's introduction, Trunks is seen as someone who has a leg up on Vegeta. Where Vegeta failed to become a Super Saiyan and got killed by Freeza, Trunks shows up, shows that he (like Goku, but unlike Vegeta) can access the form, and fells Freeza effortlessly. So, naturally, we would once again expect Trunks to succeed where Vegeta had failed. This turns out to not be the case. Grade III shows how much of a novice Trunks really is compared to his seniors (Goku and Vegeta), when it comes to actual self-improvement and skill on the battlefield. Vegeta doesn't use the form, and Trunks' use of it is punctuated by Goku trying it out in the RoSaT. It sets up a nice dichotomy between speed and power. Cell, the one lecturing Trunks about the naivete of using such a form, goes on to make the same mistake in a fit of rage against Gohan, which I think is a cool comeuppance.

Super Saiyan 2:
At the time of its first appearance, it really embodies Gohan's hidden power and potential come to life: he's now way more powerful than anyone else. The back half of the Cell arc involves a lot of foreshadowing that Gohan's potential, which had been slowly displayed over the course of the preceding two story arcs, will finally come out in full force. Chichi tells Goku to make him as strong as possible. Gohan's struggle to become a Super Saiyan runs parallel to Cell's struggle to achieve perfection. Likewise, Gohan's attainment of Super Saiyan runs parallel to Cell's absorption of #18. Goku implies that he discovered something incredible in the RoSaT, but makes it repeatedly clear that he (Goku) stands absolutely no chance.

Super Saiyan 3:
Given that the two prior story arcs were resolved with a new Super Saiyan form, the expectation is set up that this one would likewise save the day. Toriyama subverts both that reoccurring plot point, and the audience's expectations. It's presented as a truly final form for the Saiyans, able to be sensed all the way out in the Kaioshin Realm. It's also interesting how it totally screws with Goku's remaining time, and is more sustainable while dead. Takes the "double-edged sword" aspect of Grade III and turns it up to 11.

Legendary Super Saiyan:
I almost put this one in the bottom category, because it's blatantly overpowered. It powers the user (Broly) up significantly, but that give comes with absolutely no take. That's kind of boring. What isn't, though, is how it serves to embody the original "legend" of the Super Saiyan that everyone had been going on about. It's ruthless, bloodthirsty, terrifying.

Golden Ozaru and Super Saiyan 4:
These ones are just really creative, and I love them. It cleverly combines the Ozaru form with the Super Saiyan ability, resulting in a really striking synthesis. Where Super Saiyan 3 felt truly final in a grandiose, "overwhelming power" kind of way, this feels truly final in a "combine every Saiyan powerup we can" kind of way.

Super Saiyan God and Blue (and Rose):
Super Saiyan God was interesting in several ways. It required not an individual's prowess to acquire, but a group's cooperation. Its slim build contrasts with its incredible boost in power, a complete subversion on the Super Saiyan forms of the past. The requirement that it directly involves the strength of others rubs Goku the wrong way, but we see him accept the gift anyway (at least in the film) for pragmatic reasons. Blue builds on it, and sees another combination of Super Saiyan forms. While the Golden Ozaru saw the Great Ape combine with Super Saiyan, Blue sees the new God form combine with Super Saiyan. In the manga, at least, Blue is presented as another double edged sword. Initially, it can only be used once per battle, given its strain. Goku (and later Vegeta) think to fight primarily as God, while switching to Blue for in small bursts for actual attacks (and this may just be my interpretation, but in the Black arc, God seemed like it was actually faster than Blue). And finally, Goku is later seen mastering it, by keeping all of the leaking ki inside of his body, to further maximize his combat prowess. Rose is just Blue when used by a deity, so it doesn't warrant a distinct category to me (though that singular difference itself is interesting, I think).

---
Now for the ones I don't really care for, as far as the plot is concerned, at least.

False Super Saiyan:
I like the way this one looks, a lot. It doesn't really amount to anything, though. I don't recall the film building up to the form, so when it appears it doesn't actually serve as the payoff to anything. Moreover, it doesn't even "save the day", so it's not subverting anything either (see: that nonexistent build up). And since it's from an isolated standalone film with no ties to the main continuity, it doesn't serve as a "teaser" for the actual true Super Saiyan form (I mean, it does in a merchandise/advertising sense, but such tripe isn't my focus here).

Super Saiyan Rage:
Another visually striking form. Unfortunately, I don't see what meaningful role it plays in the narrative. Sure, it powers Trunks up, so he can keep up with everyone and move the bullet-point-skeleton along. But it's not a payoff to anything. The aura is clearly reminiscent of Blue and Rose, in terms of shape, so it seems sort of implied that it's related, involving God ki. But we never see Trunks take part in any Super Saiyan God ritual. We never see him train with Whis. So it really comes out of nowhere, and not in an interesting way. It just happens. It's cool, but like False Super Saiyan before it, that's about all it has going for it.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by snpaa » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:46 pm

My criticism of the form below is mainly how it effects the writing and overall balance of dragonball .

Super saiyan 2, it's literally just an increase of power and speed with no drawback to it, with the other forms there was a since of balance of them not being too powerful compared to original form super saiyan because they came with a stat decrease in either speed(Ultra super saiyan) or duration(super saiyan 3). Their is absolutely no reason not to go super saiyan 2 for any fight , it effectively makes the other forms useless. If super sayain 2 existed there would actually be a strategic reason to use different transformation instead of just making goku hold back for the sake of holding back.

Also it doesn't look much different from super saiyan 1. I don't even think making super saiyan 2 a transformation was necessary , it could of been written that the super saiyan form just got stronger through training thus making the other forms scale with the character.

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Re: What do you think is the worse ssj form?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:24 pm

Grimlock wrote:Super Saiyan Second Grade, Super Saiyan Third Grade, Super Saiyan 3, Super Saiyan 4, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Rage. They're all terrible in one way or another, and they just add to amount of Saiyans forms.

False Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God are... "acceptable" at best.
So you dislike every form but SSJ and SSJ2?

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