Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:53 pm

WittyUsername wrote:Holy crap! And I thought RF felt like a fanfic. The only thing that might possibly be worse than this is if they have Bardock and Gine coming back to life and interacting with Goku, while all attaining Ultra Instinct.
Thank god no... I'm getting used with Broly coming back, actually I'm starting to like the idea, but Toriyama to bring back Bardock and not special cool Bardock, but MINUS Bardock and Gine? That would be last straw that broke the camels back to me.
BrolyKale wrote:Toriyama said "While keeping in mind Broly's classic image so as not to disappoint his fans, I updated him and added a new side to his character, and I think this has resulted in a more fascinating Broly."
And yet people says that Toriyama don't give a single F about what fans like lol
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:55 pm

ShaggyBlanco wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:Evil Goku sounded like a bad idea. Female Broly sounded like a bad idea. Freeza coming back (again) for the ToP sounded like a bad idea. They all turned out to be great.
In the manga? Maybe
If this Broly is anything like Anime Kale then we're doomed
I'll admit, anime Kale took some time for me to like. It wasn't until Episode 114 where I was like "alright, she's cool. I like her." Her dynamic with Caulifla was great. Manga Kale has been great so far.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:56 pm

Deathbringer wrote:I actually feel ill...
I mean this movie was looking so promising in all aspects except for that one "mysterious Saiyan" character looking like some Broly-esque shit but I thought okay let's just leave it to them but now it turns out that It's literally Broly himself and I cannot handle this right now oh my god

It feels like the series has taken such a huge step backwards, I wanted more exploration of the gods and other universes but instead we get the embodiment of the worst stereotypes associated with the series being brought out from the depths of non-canonicity.

The reason this hurts so much is because just look at the first movie poster, it's Goku holding Nyoi-bo, I thought they were going back to a more adventure exploration type feel but now they've done a complete turnaround.

I can't believe they managed to outdo themselves, this makes me feel way worse than when they brought back Freeza, then did some hair colour swap transformations and brought him back again, all of that somehow feels tame now. I was expecting the mysterious Saiyan to be Bardock at the very worst case scenario but wow just wow...
Eh, when we started using financial data as the basis and proof positive of the merits of a work of art such as the Dragonball series, rather than being critical of much of the laziness and rehashing we saw in Super, the execs can only assume we want more laziness and rehashes. All the while the fans justified it with financial sheets and data. Super has a consistent records of “contradicting canon” and established storylines. But in fans efforts to justify Super rather than take it task for half assed concepts and execution, we enabled it.

The fans are the ones who brought it on themselves.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Cetra » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:58 pm

No. You said if he had no personality then he would not have had the reactions he had. You're unequivocally linking his reactions to him having a personality. So in essence you are saying reactions make personality.
No, that is not what "I am saying essentially". You lack the correct logical derivation there. The reactions Broly has - not to mention that mentioning "reactions" were simply an example; you very skillfully ignored the obvious fact that just because I use the word "reactions" but there is more than just reactions alone - require him having a personality in the first place. The way he acts and reacts to things is the direct result of Broly's organismic experience and the way he copes, the way he adapts/responds/et cetera to that. What you say with "so in essence you say reactions make personality" is flat out wrong because it would mean I said "reactions <=> personality" and I never said that (even though it is not 100% wrong either) but that you can conclude he has one from his reactions alone. I have not made a biconditional statement about "making personality" and if you understood that you were clearly misinterpreting. Deriving that he has one because I watch him act and react is not the same thing as saying "because he reacts like that he establishes that personality from those things" as you claimed with the "make personality" part. Don't even try to twist my words because it was not what I essentially said. You are forcing some disturbance of communication here. Also I strongly dislike how you purposely focussed on me mentioning reactions alone. I should not need to tell you there is more than that. On top of that, I am not merely talking about behaviourism, treating the brain as a black box but actually also talking about cognitive psychology as well.
People can right characters that react to situations, that doesn't mean that character has to have any semblance of a personality.
No, it does not mean that and if you would have any knowledge about psychology you would know that it is literally impossible for a person to have no personality. It starts with the dynamics of personality that every person has - every person - and then you start compiling more and more characteristics that make you the person that you are with this of course being a continous process. A person can say about a piece of fiction that a shallow written character has no personality to express that personis extremely shallow but there is still the requirement of personality existing for anything that happens with that person. "Person x has no personality" is a hyperbolic statement the same way when I say "Dragon Ball has no story" just because it is very, very shallow. If you think there is 0 personality, or want to use it like that, then no, you are as a matter of fact wrong. What you say has no foundation, just as it is normal in this forum. And when you even try to argue science with me, a science you do not understand and have never learned, just for the sake of it, it is getting ridiculous (and why should I not be allowed to say that already thinking about what you have said about me in the lower quote?). It just emphasizes an incredibly inflexible self-concept. And if the "replying" sign from 30 minutes ago was for a reply at me this is just another sign that you are readying a post that only once more reflects polemical intentions without background knowledge that is better off not existing as it does not serve an actual productive exchange of knowledge.
I'd also rather not bring degrees into this because it means nothing. I don't know how you lived your life but just because you have a degree in something doesn't automatically make you right or make your opinion any more valid than anybody else's.
While it is interesting that you try to get personal by half-veiled insults along the line of "you probably suck at what you have learned" yes, it gives me and other people who are also knowledgable in their own area of expertise a lot more credibility. In no way that means people are infallible and that was never part of my statement. You are just once more trying to get off the actual point. That you start off by thinking a person literally can have no personality at all and surely have not even heard of half the stuff I could roll out because of that but won't because you just would not accept it anyway and probably counter with some stuff like "you know-it-all, I already told you I don't agree with you and that you can be wrong etc" shows me this already is wasted time. And yes, very obviously my experience about that helps a lot because you clearly have no knowledge here and come to wrong conclusions, purposely twist what I say by making false statements like I said something about biconditional logic. Now of course the probabilities are high and this does not phase you at all because you once more write for the argument alone instead of a chance of coming to an agreement but whatever - I won't waste my time for that. You are clearly struggling with the axioms of communication just for polemical purposes and nothing that could be a part of your future response with this stance and way of thinking is gonna help anything at all.

EDIT: And of course you have replied. As I said. Inflexible self-concept. It will not change scientific truth, no matter how often you respond to it. It is already ridiculous discussing with you Dragon Ball at times but now this - this is a new high. Disregarding such a thing - wow. I already had you on my ignore but now you have completely disqualified yourself for any future arguments. This is beyond reason.
Last edited by Cetra on Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:53 pm, edited 21 times in total.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Dragono » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:59 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Deathbringer wrote:I actually feel ill...
I mean this movie was looking so promising in all aspects except for that one "mysterious Saiyan" character looking like some Broly-esque shit but I thought okay let's just leave it to them but now it turns out that It's literally Broly himself and I cannot handle this right now oh my god

It feels like the series has taken such a huge step backwards, I wanted more exploration of the gods and other universes but instead we get the embodiment of the worst stereotypes associated with the series being brought out from the depths of non-canonicity.

The reason this hurts so much is because just look at the first movie poster, it's Goku holding Nyoi-bo, I thought they were going back to a more adventure exploration type feel but now they've done a complete turnaround.

I can't believe they managed to outdo themselves, this makes me feel way worse than when they brought back Freeza, then did some hair colour swap transformations and brought him back again, all of that somehow feels tame now. I was expecting the mysterious Saiyan to be Bardock at the very worst case scenario but wow just wow...
Eh, when we started using financial data as the basis and proof positive of the merits of a work of art such as the Dragonball series, rather than being critical of much of the laziness and rehashing we saw in Super, the execs can only assume we want more laziness and rehashes. All the while the fans justified it with financial sheets and data. Super has a consistent records of “contradicting canon” and established storylines. But in fans efforts to justify Super rather than take it task for half assed concepts and execution, we enabled it.

The fans are the ones who brought it on themselves.
You do know half the fandom is celebrating this information right? Like broly is as loved as he is hated.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:59 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:
ShaggyBlanco wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:Evil Goku sounded like a bad idea. Female Broly sounded like a bad idea. Freeza coming back (again) for the ToP sounded like a bad idea. They all turned out to be great.
In the manga? Maybe
If this Broly is anything like Anime Kale then we're doomed
I'll admit, anime Kale took some time for me to like. It wasn't until Episode 114 where I was like "alright, she's cool. I like her." Her dynamic with Caulifla was great. Manga Kale has been great so far.
I wanted to like anime Kale, but I just can’t muster any feelings beyond mild indifference. It’s not like she’s a particularly complex character. The only thing that kind of stands out about her is that she possibly has romantic feelings for Caulifla. With that being said, I’m liking her manga counterpart thus far, but even in that case, the homage to Broly seems to be downplayed compared to the anime, at least so far.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:02 pm

ShaggyBlanco wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:Evil Goku sounded like a bad idea. Female Broly sounded like a bad idea. Freeza coming back (again) for the ToP sounded like a bad idea. They all turned out to be great.
In the manga? Maybe
If this Broly is anything like Anime Kale then we're doomed
That shows ...
Who is or what is in the movie is not the important thing . HOW is what matters
I’m sure they will do an amazing job , so there’s nothing to worry
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:04 pm

Alright, so going off the other examples of Super... Broly's gonna be amazing and the best part of the film? Alright. I can dig it.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:05 pm

Dragono wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Deathbringer wrote:I actually feel ill...
I mean this movie was looking so promising in all aspects except for that one "mysterious Saiyan" character looking like some Broly-esque shit but I thought okay let's just leave it to them but now it turns out that It's literally Broly himself and I cannot handle this right now oh my god

It feels like the series has taken such a huge step backwards, I wanted more exploration of the gods and other universes but instead we get the embodiment of the worst stereotypes associated with the series being brought out from the depths of non-canonicity.

The reason this hurts so much is because just look at the first movie poster, it's Goku holding Nyoi-bo, I thought they were going back to a more adventure exploration type feel but now they've done a complete turnaround.

I can't believe they managed to outdo themselves, this makes me feel way worse than when they brought back Freeza, then did some hair colour swap transformations and brought him back again, all of that somehow feels tame now. I was expecting the mysterious Saiyan to be Bardock at the very worst case scenario but wow just wow...
Eh, when we started using financial data as the basis and proof positive of the merits of a work of art such as the Dragonball series, rather than being critical of much of the laziness and rehashing we saw in Super, the execs can only assume we want more laziness and rehashes. All the while the fans justified it with financial sheets and data. Super has a consistent records of “contradicting canon” and established storylines. But in fans efforts to justify Super rather than take it task for half assed concepts and execution, we enabled it.

The fans are the ones who brought it on themselves.
You do know half the fandom is celebrating this information right? Like broly is as loved as he is hated.
You just empathized my point. Being popular doesn’t prevent something from being a lazy rehash rather than an original concept.

The numerous retorts to the criticisms of Super have
been: “Look how much money it’s making””Look how popular it is.”

We are getting this because we used those same justifications for Super so the execs gave us more of the same.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Hitiro » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:06 pm

BrolyKale wrote:Vegeta called Goku saying "Kakarot" and Broly was behind them, he just heard the name and that's it. Its like asking how does Kale know Goku's name when Goku never even said it, she just heard it and that's it. Same goes for Broly.

Here are the pictures https://docs.google.com/document/d/15jD ... CkDt0/edit
I'm not sure how you can say 3 flashbacks of Goku crying next to Broly has no relevance to how Broly reacts when we get the scene so consistently throughout the movie. If it were merely a throw away scene to give context as to what happened to him and Paragus then we would have had it once. But it's a recurring scene throughout the story so it must have relevance past being a simple backstory.

You posit that the audience should be drawn to Paragus' theory that it was Goku's power that awakened Broly's Saiyan instinct but this is posited as a question and this scene is relying on the fact that even Paragus himself didn't recall Goku and Broly being next to each other until 23 mins in. So his theory never took into account that knowledge. But we, as the audience, were already privy to their connection. Stories often give the viewer details that the characters don't currently have access to, for whatever reason, it's a normal story telling technique.

You also suggest that the two Saiyan's talking about Goku and Broly has meaning which it could very well do but the other flashbacks don't have this dialogue. Do they? So it is hardly a case of all the flashbacks meaning the same thing in this regard because they would have a running theme and truly if it were the case that the flashbacks were just about Goku being more gutsy then there would only need to be one Flashback. Or at least two with the second being just an iteration after Goku punched Broly. Because if the other flashbacks without this dialogue serve no context to the story then they are unnecessary.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Jackalope89 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:06 pm

Just goes to show that Broly is still the most polarizing Dragon Ball villain.

But hey, I'll give this film a chance before hating on it, rather then go, "Oh how dare they bring back an old villain to Super! That never works!"

Which was said about Freeza just before the TOP, and he was one of the highlights of that arc.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by BrolyKale » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:08 pm

Hitiro wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:Vegeta called Goku saying "Kakarot" and Broly was behind them, he just heard the name and that's it. Its like asking how does Kale know Goku's name when Goku never even said it, she just heard it and that's it. Same goes for Broly.

Here are the pictures https://docs.google.com/document/d/15jD ... CkDt0/edit
I'm not sure how you can say 3 flashbacks of Goku crying next to Broly has no relevance to how Broly reacts when we get the scene so consistently throughout the movie. If it were merely a throw away scene to give context as to what happened to him and Paragus then we would have had it once. But it's a recurring scene throughout the story so it must have relevance past being a simple backstory.

You posit that the audience should be drawn to Paragus' theory that it was Goku's power that awakened Broly's Saiyan instinct but this is posited as a question and this scene is relying on the fact that even Paragus himself didn't recall Goku and Broly being next to each other until 23 mins in. So his theory never took into account that knowledge. But we, as the audience, were already privy to their connection. Stories often give the viewer details that the characters don't currently have access to, for whatever reason, it's a normal story telling technique.

You also suggest that the two Saiyan's talking about Goku and Broly has meaning which it could very well do but the other flashbacks don't have this dialogue. Do they? So it is hardly a case of all the flashbacks meaning the same thing in this regard because they would have a running theme and truly if it were the case that the flashbacks were just about Goku being more gutsy then there would only need to be one Flashback. Or at least two with the second being just an iteration after Goku punched Broly. Because if the other flashbacks without this dialogue serve no context to the story then they are unnecessary.
I'm not the one who wrote it, its from rereboy a guy from this forum. My english is very poor so I can't really help you, but you should send a PM to him and he will reply.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:09 pm

prince212 wrote:
ShaggyBlanco wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:Evil Goku sounded like a bad idea. Female Broly sounded like a bad idea. Freeza coming back (again) for the ToP sounded like a bad idea. They all turned out to be great.
In the manga? Maybe
If this Broly is anything like Anime Kale then we're doomed
That shows ...
Who is or what is in the movie is not the important thing . HOW is what matters
I’m sure they will do an amazing job , so there’s nothing to worry
Even if you have a bad idea executed well, it still sets a precedent. Eventually creativity will become scarce.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:12 pm

BrolyKale wrote:Kale is not a reboot of Broly... stop with that. The only thing she has in common is the green hair and her "clothes" dear god.
Image

Image

Oh yeah. They're TOTALLY different concepts entirely.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by MrTennek » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:12 pm

I'll be avoiding this movie like the plague. Broly is a cancer to this franchise.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:13 pm

Sigh, the DB Fandom never surprises me... Have you all not learned your lessons since 2016’s return of Evil Goku, FT Trunks and 2017’s return of Freeza and Broly? Y’all are going to watch the movie anyways and this will be the most successful DB movie of all time. Toriyama actually took his time to write a full movie script for you all and y’all just keep on complaining. We’re actually getting some new straightforward canon DB content yet y’all persist to complain why? What’s wrong with you people? Toriyama even said that that he’s changed the character. We still have little information and you fools are complaining the same way y’all complained when Freeza was announced for his return in Super about a year ago. He was only announced to return and you all started acting like babies... Eps 94 and 95 of Super are some of the best eps in the framchise and that was after you fools complained about him returning. Grow the fuck up people!

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by BrolyKale » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:14 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:Kale is not a reboot of Broly... stop with that. The only thing she has in common is the green hair and her "clothes" dear god.
Image

Image

Oh yeah. They're TOTALLY different concepts entirely.
Goku and Vegeta also have the same transformation does that make them the same? Kale is way different than Broly. Her personality and story (in the manga) have nothing to do with Broly. She just has the same form as Broly and that's pretty much it.
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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Dragono » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:14 pm

Something i don't understand about Toriyama though. He keeps adding new things to dragon ball but then using them to go back to old things. Now, editorial team are probably the reason for this but still its not like he can't come up with new ideas so doesn't he tell them no.

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Re: Official "DB Super 2018 Movie" Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:15 pm

I'm not going to hate on the movie just yet since it is not even out yet. I dislike the idea of Broli coming back for another movie, but Toriyama's take on the character could be something new and different.
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