Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[HECTOR4]

Kikono is a very old Freeza Force member and is a genius scientist who worked for King Cold. He created the scouters, armour and spacecrafts.

Again Toriyama contradicting himself. In this interview (in 2014) he makes it clear that who created the scouters were the Tsufruians and an engineer named Gichamu modified them for Freeza's army:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... outers-qa/

It seems that there are old- and new-type scouters, but are there various other types of scouters as well?

They’re the same in terms of features, but a variety of different aliens wear them, but there are a bunch of different types of attachment parts depending on the position of the ear. If you’re a soldier in Freeza’s army, you can have one made to order to fit your ear. The different screen colors can be chosen to fit the peculiarities of different aliens’ eyes, or to suit one’s tastes. Also, dual-eye types exist as well. Incidentally, its inventors were the Tsufruians, the original inhabitants of Planet Vegeta who were wiped out by the Saiyans. Originally, it was a device for the purpose of guarding against enemies and beasts, but Gichamu, a highly skilled engineer in Freeza’s army, laid eyes on it and made modifications for concrete battle power numbers and telecommunications abilities, and soldiers began making use of it to carry out offensives.

[Marlowe89]

At first I was bummed out by the non-aging Goten and Trunks, but then I saw HQ SSG Vegeta and all was right with the world.

[Miracles]

You got no facts.
Fact 1: Jiren was stated/confirmed to be stronger than Belmound in both anime/manga, nobody else.
Fact 2: Beerus only lost in arm wrestling in both anime and manga. Beerus didn't even say to whom in the anime. Whis NEVER refuted this point EVER.
Fact 3: You will use more of your fanfic. Please read the story before commenting.

You say I got no facts when you're the one who says its a fact that Jiren is only stronger than Belmond.

1. True.
2. The arm wrestling match were between two different gods in the manga and anime. In the manga, it was U4 god. In the anime, it's heavily implied to be Belmond since Whis said upon seeing Jiren's power 'it seems the rumors were true'. That and the context in this arm wrestling match was different between the two versions, so Whis couldn't even refute Beerus' point in the manga.
3. Again, I used nothing but what the anime have told us, but for some reason you keep mixing and matching the manga and anime when the context of the arm wrestling isn't even the same.

I don't want your implications I want facts. Beerus didn't mention a name in his arm wrestling loss and Whis ONLY confirmed that a mortal is stronger than a god. Not who beat Beerus at arm wrestling or that he was lying in the TOP.

You got to read the story. You aren't matching up

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Kikono is a very old Freeza Force member and is a genius scientist who worked for King Cold. He created the scouters, armour and spacecrafts.

Again Toriyama contradicting himself. In this interview (in 2014) he makes it clear that who created the scouters were the Tsufruians and an engineer named Gichamu modified them for Frieza's army:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... outers-qa/

It seems that there are old- and new-type scouters, but are there various other types of scouters as well?

They’re the same in terms of features, but a variety of different aliens wear them, but there are a bunch of different types of attachment parts depending on the position of the ear. If you’re a soldier in Freeza’s army, you can have one made to order to fit your ear. The different screen colors can be chosen to fit the peculiarities of different aliens’ eyes, or to suit one’s tastes. Also, dual-eye types exist as well. Incidentally, its inventors were the Tsufruians, the original inhabitants of Planet Vegeta who were wiped out by the Saiyans. Originally, it was a device for the purpose of guarding against enemies and beasts, but Gichamu, a highly skilled engineer in Freeza’s army, laid eyes on it and made modifications for concrete battle power numbers and telecommunications abilities, and soldiers began making use of it to carry out offensives.

I don't mind him contradicting something he said in an interview. However, contradicting something he established in his manga? That's a different story.

Also, it's possible that I might've goofed up the translation. I am using Google translate for this, after all. Let's wait for our saviour, Herms, for a proper translation.

[HECTOR4]

I don't mind him contradicting something he said in an interview. However, contradicting something he established in his manga? That's a different story.

Also, it's possible that I might've goofed up the translation. I am using Google translate for this, after all. Let's wait for our saviour, Herms, for a proper translation.

No, it doesn't contradict anything regarding the manga.

But for me both things are the same. Everything that Toriyama says in other products are things added to the original story (provided that it's not specified that they are data for animated series or films outside the canon, of course). When Toriyama speaks in general about Dragon Ball it's understood that he talks about the history of the manga.

Whoever wants to understand that Toriyama's manga and informations (from another sources) are different things is in his right, of course, but for me both cases are the same. Both cases are Toriyama offering us data about the universe that he created, some shown in the form of manga and others shown in interviews, guides, etc. But these are minor errors, small contradictions, there are hundreds of them also in the original manga XD

And yes, let's wait and see if in a more accurate translation the data changes ^^

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Ignore what I said before, Bulma's collecting the Dragon Balls on her own without telling Goku and co.

Looks like Toriyama did contradict what he said in that interview from 2014. I ain't fussed, but I guess I can see why some people would find that annoying.

[Grimlock]

So... Toriyama just removed the only tidbit about Tsufurujins that could help them make an appearance in the movie. *sigh*

Alright, hopefully this means nothing and that they will still appear in the movie.

[HeroR]

I don't want your implications I want facts. Beerus didn't mention a name in his arm wrestling loss and Whis ONLY confirmed that a mortal is stronger than a god. Not who beat Beerus at arm wrestling or that he was lying in the TOP.

You got to read the story. You aren't matching up

In the anime while no name was mentioned, Beerus knew the god Whis was referring to and when Whis saw Jiren's power he repeated the exact quote he gave to Goku and the others about 'a mortal that a God of Destruction couldn't destroy while looking right at Belmond'. So the implications are, he was talking about Belmond.

Beerus doesn't have to be lying, but he could very well be playing down that someone is stronger than him, which is perfectly within Beerus' character and it isn't within Whis' character to just say someone is stronger than Beerus based solely on arm wrestling.

You keep telling me the read the story, but it seems to me you need to rewatch Episodes 94 and 109.

[Shaddy]

I always thought tsufuru-jins were kinda lame. It would make sense that people would have lived on the would-be Vegeta before it was conquered, but I always hated that they were basically just humans with more tech. I don't want them appearing in this movie if that's all they're gonna be.

[Miracles]

I don't want your implications I want facts. Beerus didn't mention a name in his arm wrestling loss and Whis ONLY confirmed that a mortal is stronger than a god. Not who beat Beerus at arm wrestling or that he was lying in the TOP.

You got to read the story. You aren't matching up

In the anime while no name was mentioned, Beerus knew the god Whis was referring to and when Whis saw Jiren's power he repeated the exact quote he gave to Goku and the others about 'a mortal that a God of Destruction couldn't destroy while looking right at Belmond'. So the implications are, he was talking about Belmond.

Beerus doesn't have to be lying, but he could very well be playing down that someone is stronger than him, which is perfectly within Beerus' character and it isn't within Whis' character to just say someone is stronger than Beerus based solely on arm wrestling.

You keep telling me the read the story, but it seems to me you need to rewatch Episodes 94 and 109.

"could be very well downplaying" and "implications are there..."

You are just assuming everything, Whis quoted only a PART of the "RUMOR" at the TOP and that was confirming a mortal stronger than a god which was belmound, which is why he looked at Belmound.
Nowhere did Whis continue on about said god being stronger than Beerus, that is simply your headcannon. Nor did Beerus ever know what god Whis was talking about cause Whis himself didn't even know which god was weaker than a mortal. He was going off a rumor.

Let it go. Beerus power is simply a mystery.

[BlueBasilisk]

So Cheelai is the personification of poor decision making and Beriblu is Frieza's sassy nanny? I love it already.

I wonder if Toriyama's going to keep the tsufurians as part of the Saiyan backstory or if he's going to slowly phase them out of it? It seems like every time we get new information in the series it erases their footprint little by little.

[shadd21]

I don't want your implications I want facts. Beerus didn't mention a name in his arm wrestling loss and Whis ONLY confirmed that a mortal is stronger than a god. Not who beat Beerus at arm wrestling or that he was lying in the TOP.

You got to read the story. You aren't matching up

In the anime while no name was mentioned, Beerus knew the god Whis was referring to and when Whis saw Jiren's power he repeated the exact quote he gave to Goku and the others about 'a mortal that a God of Destruction couldn't destroy while looking right at Belmond'. So the implications are, he was talking about Belmond.

Beerus doesn't have to be lying, but he could very well be playing down that someone is stronger than him, which is perfectly within Beerus' character and it isn't within Whis' character to just say someone is stronger than Beerus based solely on arm wrestling.

You keep telling me the read the story, but it seems to me you need to rewatch Episodes 94 and 109.

"could be very well downplaying" and "implications are there..."

You are just assuming everything, Whis quoted only a PART of the "RUMOR" at the TOP and that was confirming a mortal stronger than a god which was belmound, which is why he looked at Belmound.
Nowhere did Whis continue on about said god being stronger than Beerus, that is simply your headcannon. Nor did Beerus ever know what god Whis was talking about cause Whis himself didn't even know which god was weaker than a mortal. He was going off a rumor.

Let it go. Beerus power is simply a mystery.

And so is Jiren, nothing implies that he’s weaker than Beerus.

[Miracles]

And so is Jiren, nothing implies that he’s weaker than Beerus.

That's true. However I didn't state Beerus was stronger than anybody.

[Chuquita]

I'm ok without the Tsufurians honestly. They seemed more like an analogue at the time of how dangerous to humans the saiyans were.

The new characters seem interesting and I like Bulma's cold weather gear. I'm not interested in them myself, but I sympathize with those who wish Trunks and Goten would finally age up and look like teens.

[HECTOR4]

Crazy theory about Gichamu and Kikono [FAKE, NOT REAL XDD]:

Maybe Kikono is a surviving Tsufruian scientist who ended up working for Cold/Freeza, and he was the one who invented the scouter for the Tsufruians. When he entered the army he put all his scientific knowledge and inventions to the service of Cold and Freeza. And then the scouter was adapted by Gichamu, an army engineer. After all the designs of the ancient inhabitants of planet Plant and Kikono are very similar. Kikono could be a current Tsufruian, whose race evolved over 1000 years:



But is only a crazy theory XDDDD Of course I don't think Toriyama has thought of any of this XDDD

[FortuneSSJ]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That's a really beautiful location!

[Noah]

At this point I don't care much about Goten and Trunks not aging, but why they are present and not Gohan who defeated Broly previously? Such a shame

I'm not defending Goten and Trunks for never aging, but I think they kinda have an excuse of why Future and Present Trunks aged differently, for once Trunks impact on the timeline made Vegeta stronger, and one could say made Buu saga Trunks stronger or at last give him the ability to turn SSJ early, unlike Future Trunks who had to work for it; also I may be wrong, but I think other factors like the ambient and the diet can change the way you grow.

That's a good theory, so you're saying that Future Trunks grow fast because he lived on living in a dangerous environment in which he needed power to survive? Very interesting.

Some new images:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

These look somewhat nice, but Beerus looks like a freaking dog

Yes, but it wasn't only Belmond and Whis added in the anime that Belmond surpassed Beerus, which we only have Beerus' word that Whis is exaggerating with 'it was only arm wrestling'. So it's false to say 'didn't mention he was stronger than any other gods'.

You keep ignoring facts for your own desires... BOTH manga and anime have Beerus word NEVER contradicted that he lost in arm wrestling. While Whis ONLY confirms that Jiren is stronger than Belmound in the TOP and does not debunk Beerus about his arm wrestling claim. Whis didn't even know WHICH universe had the mortal stronger than it's god until the TOP. Actually read the series before making claims that don't match it.

Exactly, also I don't think that was Belmod as he and Beerus never interacted in the ToP after all. Quitela being the one who beat Beerus in an arm wrestling is more plausible since Beerus (anime), noted how he "wasn't good with that guy," and surprisingly didn't retort against Quitela's snarky remark about U7 during the tournament. Whis never implied that Belmod was strong than Beerus. We know that Jiren is stronger than the GoD from Universe 11, but not all GoDs.

[LightBing]

Freeza's personal maid talking like she wants to him is off-character for Namek Freeza..., I'm thinking this the typical Mr.Toriyama way of showcasing progress without saying anything while providing some gags.
Seems like Freeza isn't being wasted and is actually developed. I'm much more interested in him than Broly. They might be softening him up and smarting him up.

Chelye is a type of character I really like, expecting great things from her.

[dbgtFO]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I think this is Planet Vegeta in the past with the beautiful castle being King Vegeta's humble abode contrasted with the simpler homes seen down below.
It looks like how it was depicted in DBMinus and how Sadal looks like in the manga.

If it is not Planet Vegeta, then it could be Sadal or much like the original Broly Movie, a planet where Paragus and Broly have been residing for all these years, considering how much the castle looks like the castle from movie 8.

[KayDash]

Kikono is a very old Freeza Force member and is a genius scientist who worked for King Cold. He created the scouters, armour and spacecrafts.

Again Toriyama contradicting himself. In this interview (in 2014) he makes it clear that who created the scouters were the Tsufruians and an engineer named Gichamu modified them for Freeza's army:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... outers-qa/

It seems that there are old- and new-type scouters, but are there various other types of scouters as well?

They’re the same in terms of features, but a variety of different aliens wear them, but there are a bunch of different types of attachment parts depending on the position of the ear. If you’re a soldier in Freeza’s army, you can have one made to order to fit your ear. The different screen colors can be chosen to fit the peculiarities of different aliens’ eyes, or to suit one’s tastes. Also, dual-eye types exist as well. Incidentally, its inventors were the Tsufruians, the original inhabitants of Planet Vegeta who were wiped out by the Saiyans. Originally, it was a device for the purpose of guarding against enemies and beasts, but Gichamu, a highly skilled engineer in Freeza’s army, laid eyes on it and made modifications for concrete battle power numbers and telecommunications abilities, and soldiers began making use of it to carry out offensives.

So how it happened? Does King Cold owned Plant Plant, before the saiyans moved there, and when the saiyans invaded, and killed most of Tsufurians, Cold and Frieza interfered, beat them in a war, and then the remnants along with King Vegeta became Frieza Force soldiers?