Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Amir » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:05 am

Miracles wrote:
Amir wrote:He said perhaps when Jiren was really suppressed, so that "perhaps" heavily implied Jiren had indeed surpassed GoD state, they would never add that line if it wasn't true.

Even if Beerus doesn't think this GoD is stronger, the fact he beat him in arm wresing confirms Beerus and that said GoD are at least equal, and Jiren is stronger than that GoD.

Besides, in 130 Jiren broke his limits and got way stronger so if you still think he wasn't above the GoDs before, after that power up he FAR surpassed them.
Your implications are not factual.

Take it to the strength discussion thread.
ricky84 wrote:Some of the Super designs on that broad are not done by Toyotaro. And some of the info on the broad if you read closely also references events that were anime-only. That debunks your argument.
No, the events are speaking manga only. As the descriptions and pictures are Toriyama's manga continuing with Toyotaro's Super manga images along with V jump covers. Nothing anime specific except for the Broly movie images which continues the canon manga.
MisteryOne wrote:Literally all of the Super designs excluding obviously the Broly movie ones are done by Toyotaro and most of them even appeared in covers or V-Jumps. Are we looking at the same image? Also when does it show anime only stuff? I only see manga only things like Zamasu being alonside SS1 Black after he saved him.

It's amusing that people keep thinking the manga is a promotional product when it stopped being so back on chapter 9. When was that, 2 years ago?
Exactly.
But my point about limit breaker Jiren is factual.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:49 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Weren't you talking about Z's old movies ?
No.
Stricter laws my behind, it's quite obvious super is much softer and tonned down then z was, and dragon ball is teenagers, not pre-teens. Dragon ball was intended to appeal to an older audience then dr slump did which was an Shonenen manga as well, and wiki says 12 to 18.
Besides, how in the world are the theme and adult humor in db and z only intended for 8 to 13 years old? Db manga are more mature then supers anime and that's a fact. Even toyotaro manga is intended for middle teen years children and we all know akiras manga is more mature then toyotaro, so how is his only intended for little kids? It's not.
1.Have you actually read dr. slump?Dragon ball is basically dr.slumpian version of wuxia.Dr. Slump has adult humor(sex jokes,alcohol,nudity) and violence.Very rarely indeed,but some mature themes do pop up in dr. slump.

2.They are intended for preteens and teens,but they have appeal for all ages.However,the target demographic of dragon ball is much lower than something like evangelion.
However,I wouldn’t say that doesn’t justify it’s shortcomings and they could always write for an older demographic.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:52 am

sintzu wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: No.
Stricter laws my behind, it's quite obvious super is much softer and tonned down then z was, and dragon ball is teenagers, not pre-teens. Dragon ball was intended to appeal to an older audience then dr slump did which was an Shonenen manga as well, and wiki says 12 to 18.
Besides, how in the world are the theme and adult humor in db and z only intended for 8 to 13 years old? Db manga are more mature then supers anime and that's a fact. Even toyotaro manga is intended for middle teen years children and we all know akiras manga is more mature then toyotaro, so how is his only intended for little kids? It's not.
More than one person here will try to bring down the original DB and other Shonen to justify Super's shortcomings. One Piece which is the exact same type of Shonen as DB and was even inspired by it has a majority fan base of adults, 88% to be exact.

http://www.animegamesonline.com/2011/12 ... re-adults/
Hmph, I never understand why people have to go such distances to defend super.
But anyway, just looked at the ratings for dbs manga on viz media. It's rated T for younger teens and up. Which exactly fits, super tv show fits more "of all ages".

After this chatter, I'm starting to have a bad feeling about this movie - I really think it's going to be heavily PG. Look at goku at the end, he dosent have any blood shown - if this movie fails to show some intensity that old dragon ball felt - I will officially give up on modern dragon ball.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:59 am

Hawk9211 wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: No.
Stricter laws my behind, it's quite obvious super is much softer and tonned down then z was, and dragon ball is teenagers, not pre-teens. Dragon ball was intended to appeal to an older audience then dr slump did which was an Shonenen manga as well, and wiki says 12 to 18.
Besides, how in the world are the theme and adult humor in db and z only intended for 8 to 13 years old? Db manga are more mature then supers anime and that's a fact. Even toyotaro manga is intended for middle teen years children and we all know akiras manga is more mature then toyotaro, so how is his only intended for little kids? It's not.
1.Have you actually read dr. slump?Dragon ball is basically dr.slumpian version of wuxia.Dr. Slump has adult humor(sex jokes,alcohol,nudity) and violence.Very rarely indeed,but some mature themes do pop up in dr. slump.

2.They are intended for preteens and teens,but they have appeal for all ages.However,the target demographic of dragon ball is much lower than something like evangelion.
However,I wouldn’t say that doesn’t justify it’s shortcomings and they could always write for an older demographic.
1. What be your point? Point is dragon ball was intended for an older audience then slump therefore it's most likely meant for a teen audience that can appeal to preteens or young adults.
2. Its intended for teens which can appeal to pre teens or young adults, it's content be to mature to just appeal to pre teens (10-12), it appeals to like (13-17) but can also gravitate age group younger and older. It's not meant for little kids like super,
Point is super is not aiming for the same demographic as older db was. Super is aiming at much younger one, which would make sense if Sintzu's bomb shelling claims about how modern dragon ball gets it money then how it used to before is correct.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:13 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote: Stricter laws my behind, it's quite obvious super is much softer and tonned down then z was, and dragon ball is teenagers, not pre-teens. Dragon ball was intended to appeal to an older audience then dr slump did which was an Shonenen manga as well, and wiki says 12 to 18.
Besides, how in the world are the theme and adult humor in db and z only intended for 8 to 13 years old? Db manga are more mature then supers anime and that's a fact. Even toyotaro manga is intended for middle teen years children and we all know akiras manga is more mature then toyotaro, so how is his only intended for little kids? It's not.
More than one person here will try to bring down the original DB and other Shonen to justify Super's shortcomings. One Piece which is the exact same type of Shonen as DB and was even inspired by it has a majority fan base of adults, 88% to be exact.

http://www.animegamesonline.com/2011/12 ... re-adults/
Hmph, I never understand why people have to go such distances to defend super.
But anyway, just looked at the ratings for dbs manga on viz media. It's rated T for younger teens and up. Which exactly fits, super tv show fits more "of all ages".

After this chatter, I'm starting to have a bad feeling about this movie - I really think it's going to be heavily PG. Look at goku at the end, he dosent have any blood shown - if this movie fails to show some intensity that old dragon ball felt - I will officially give up on modern dragon ball.
And why is PG a bad thing? Frozen was PG with no blood, yet we it had a sub plot that would fit in Game of Thrones. Coco from Pixar is PG and it has a murder.

You don't need blood or a PG-13 rating to have an interest plot or a PG rating means 'kidding'. That and yes, Shonenen is mad primary for kids to teens:

Shōnen, shonen, or shounen manga (少年漫画 shōnen manga) is manga aimed at a teenage male target-demographic readership. The age group varies with individual readers and different magazines, but it is primarily intended for boys between the ages of 12 to 18. The kanji characters (少年) literally mean "boy" (or "youth"), and the characters (漫画) mean "cartoon" or "comic". Thus, the complete phrase means "young person's comic", or simply "boys' comic"; its female equivalent is shōjo manga. Shōnen manga is the most popular form of manga.[1][2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shōnen_manga

One Piece's numbers are the way they are because One Piece has been going since 96 and most of the readers grew up with the series which is still ongoing. That and the One Piece anime is tone down from the manga, even more so these days. And even at Dragon Ball's peak, the anime was ton down from the original manga. For example:

Image
Image

Image
Image

Or my personal favorite:

Image

And to be blunt, you should just give up on modern Dragon Ball if since those days your want are long gone.
Jesus-is Lord wrote: 1. What be your point? Point is dragon ball was intended for an older audience then slump therefore it's most likely meant for a teen audience that can appeal to preteens or young adults.
2. Its intended for teens which can appeal to pre teens or young adults, it's content be to mature to just appeal to pre teens (10-12), it appeals to like (13-17) but can also gravitate age group younger and older. It's not meant for little kids like super,
Point is super is not aiming for the same demographic as older db was. Super is aiming at much younger one, which would make sense if Sintzu's bomb shelling claims about how modern dragon ball gets it money then how it used to before is correct.
Actually, it wasn't. Dragon Ball was gag manga in the same vain as Dr. Slump, except Dragon Ball was more action focus. In fact, Dragon Ball even kept the same page count as a gag manga, which is about two pages shorter than a normal battle manga.

As for Super's intended audience, when directly asked about it, the director said it was aimed at the same group as the rest of Dragon Ball.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:14 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote: Stricter laws my behind, it's quite obvious super is much softer and tonned down then z was, and dragon ball is teenagers, not pre-teens. Dragon ball was intended to appeal to an older audience then dr slump did which was an Shonenen manga as well, and wiki says 12 to 18.
Besides, how in the world are the theme and adult humor in db and z only intended for 8 to 13 years old? Db manga are more mature then supers anime and that's a fact. Even toyotaro manga is intended for middle teen years children and we all know akiras manga is more mature then toyotaro, so how is his only intended for little kids? It's not.
1.Have you actually read dr. slump?Dragon ball is basically dr.slumpian version of wuxia.Dr. Slump has adult humor(sex jokes,alcohol,nudity) and violence.Very rarely indeed,but some mature themes do pop up in dr. slump.

2.They are intended for preteens and teens,but they have appeal for all ages.However,the target demographic of dragon ball is much lower than something like evangelion.
However,I wouldn’t say that doesn’t justify it’s shortcomings and they could always write for an older demographic.
1. What be your point? Point is dragon ball was intended for an older audience then slump therefore it's most likely meant for a teen audience that can appeal to preteens or young adults.
2. Its intended for teens which can appeal to pre teens or young adults, it's content be to mature to just appeal to pre teens (10-12), it appeals to like (13-17) but can also gravitate age group younger and older. It's not meant for little kids like super,
Point is super is not aiming for the same demographic as older db was. Super is aiming at much younger one, which would make sense if Sintzu's bomb shelling claims about how modern dragon ball gets it money then how it used to before is correct.
I said pre teens and early teens(13) at the most.
The tone of super is similar to Og dB and buu saga.The higher amount of jokes and gags is not equivalent of childish.One punch man is a seinen.

Super isn’t meant for little kids like Pokemon if this is what you’re getting at.Kitaro,the anime which replaced dbs,shows blood and is intended for kids and younger teens.The major difference between both is that one of them has international appeal.

The reason it feels dumbed down is due to multiple reasons other than age.

Majority of adult audience doesn’t mean jack,if they are written for some other demographic.For example,one piece fanbase is mostly female,but oda has said in multiple interviews that he writes the story imagining himself when he was a little boy and if we talk about merchandise,then most of merchandise is 15+ for both one piece and dragon ball.

You are bringing American sources which have different standard and perspective than Japanese.You can read toriyama’s interviews to see the intended audience of dragon ball.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:22 am

HeroR wrote:Snip
The Wikipedia article is most likely wrong as you can see in one of my post above.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by sintzu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:06 am

Hawk9211 wrote:
HeroR wrote:Snip
The Wikipedia article is most likely wrong as you can see in one of my post above.
Why would the wiki article be wrong and not yours ? I don't think these mangaka would put in the effort they do if their main target group was 6-10 year olds, especially someone like Oda who goes above and beyond for the smallest details.
HeroR wrote:As for Super's intended audience, when directly asked about it, the director said it was aimed at the same group as the rest of Dragon Ball.
Actions speak louder than words and what we've seen so far says the opposite.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Look at goku at the end, he dosent have any blood shown - if this movie fails to show some intensity that old dragon ball felt - I will officially give up on modern dragon ball.
I can live without the blood as long as it's not full of gags like cutting to the Pilaf gang every 5 minutes or some of the odd to say the least modern anime tropes that Super tried to bring into DB.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:28 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote: Stricter laws my behind, it's quite obvious super is much softer and tonned down then z was, and dragon ball is teenagers, not pre-teens. Dragon ball was intended to appeal to an older audience then dr slump did which was an Shonenen manga as well, and wiki says 12 to 18.
Besides, how in the world are the theme and adult humor in db and z only intended for 8 to 13 years old? Db manga are more mature then supers anime and that's a fact. Even toyotaro manga is intended for middle teen years children and we all know akiras manga is more mature then toyotaro, so how is his only intended for little kids? It's not.
More than one person here will try to bring down the original DB and other Shonen to justify Super's shortcomings. One Piece which is the exact same type of Shonen as DB and was even inspired by it has a majority fan base of adults, 88% to be exact.

http://www.animegamesonline.com/2011/12 ... re-adults/
Hmph, I never understand why people have to go such distances to defend super.
But anyway, just looked at the ratings for dbs manga on viz media. It's rated T for younger teens and up. Which exactly fits, super tv show fits more "of all ages".

After this chatter, I'm starting to have a bad feeling about this movie - I really think it's going to be heavily PG. Look at goku at the end, he dosent have any blood shown - if this movie fails to show some intensity that old dragon ball felt - I will officially give up on modern dragon ball.
If you think the original manga/DBZ was aimed at adults or even late teens then you are delusional. Dragonball (all of it) is a shonen franchise, that is for young boys 8-15. It was never an adult (seinen) anime/manga.

Either way, if you look at the ratings for the DBS anime on Adult Swim it is TV-14, with some episodes being TV-MA, so your argument here is nonsense.

And no, the original manga/DBZ was not more mature than Super (either version) at all. In the 90s DBZ was seen as young boys show worldwide.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:34 am

sintzu wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:
HeroR wrote:Snip
The Wikipedia article is most likely wrong as you can see in one of my post above.
Why would the wiki article be wrong and not yours ? I don't think these mangaka would put in the effort they do if their main target group was 6-10 year olds, especially someone like Oda who goes above and beyond for the smallest details.
HeroR wrote:As for Super's intended audience, when directly asked about it, the director said it was aimed at the same group as the rest of Dragon Ball.
Actions speak louder than words and what we've seen so far says the opposite.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Look at goku at the end, he dosent have any blood shown - if this movie fails to show some intensity that old dragon ball felt - I will officially give up on modern dragon ball.
I can live without the blood as long as it's not full of gags like cutting to the Pilaf gang every 5 minutes or some of the odd to say the least modern anime tropes that Super tried to bring into DB.
One Piece and other shonen are indeed primary aimed at young boys (8-15). You are delusional if you think any Dragonball media or shonen series is aimed at an older group than that.

And no, standards for what is appropriate for children differ by culture, so DB(Z) having more blood and ecchi isn't proof of it being more mature or being made for an older audience.

And just because something is for kids don't mean it should be put to a lower standard or made with less effort. Hell, Oda himself will tell you that One Piece is a young boys series, yet look at the amount of effort he puts into it.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:39 am

sintzu wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:
HeroR wrote:Snip
The Wikipedia article is most likely wrong as you can see in one of my post above.
Why would the wiki article be wrong and not yours ? I don't think these mangaka would put in the effort they do if their main target group was 6-10 year olds, especially someone like Oda who goes above and beyond for the smallest details.
I listed two articles.One of them was the source given by the wiki article.

Shonen is aimed from 8 to 18 year old.That’s seems the most reasonable range from what I have read.People are more picky these days and each series sets precedent for the next one.

Oda mentioned in an old interview that back in the days,you could get away with a lot of stuff but nowadays there’s a large adult audience.Most importantly,Oda himself was frustrated with lack of consistency in some manga when he was young and wanted to make a consistent manga.
https://opforum.net/threads/eiichiro-o ... 018.79631/
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:51 am

It makes no sense how anyone could deny that DB(Z) was a kids series when nearly 95% of fans world wide got into it when they were kids lmao. Only insecure manchildren would go as far as to claim that franchises like One Piece, Dragonball and Naruto are made for adults smh, ignoring actual adult anime like Berzerk, Hellsing and Cowboy Bebob.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by sintzu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:58 am

ricky84 wrote:Only insecure manchildren would go as far as to claim that franchises like One Piece, Dragonball and Naruto are made for adults.
Adults are clearly being taken into account or you wouldn't see the type of effort that goes into them. You think Itachi's story is a kids story ? or all the convoluted lore behind One Piece ? You've also got the fan base of one of them (One Piece) being 88% 18+ year olds but why look at facts when you can throw insults around but I guess that's what real "mature" people do. If DB is a kids only franchise then why are you even here ?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MisteryOne » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:55 am

ricky84 wrote:It makes no sense how anyone could deny that DB(Z) was a kids series when nearly 95% of fans world wide got into it when they were kids lmao. Only insecure manchildren would go as far as to claim that franchises like One Piece, Dragonball and Naruto are made for adults smh, ignoring actual adult anime like Berzerk, Hellsing and Cowboy Bebob.
Cowboy Bebop is not specifically targeted at adults, it even had a shojo manga. Berserk and Hellsing are indeed seinens tho.

Dragonball has always been a shonen and people ate crazy if they thing it's going to turn into a seinen out of the blue. There are some cases of shonen evolving into seinen like JJBA but Dragonball has a huge fanbase that likes it for what it is. I do agree that I would rather have somr blood or more violent scenes back. Goku Black punishing Trunks in the Super manga really felt like a brutal breakdown for example, with the only similar thing in the anime being Toppo crushing Frieza's head. Sadly this movie will probably be like RoF at best.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:14 pm

sintzu wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:
HeroR wrote:Snip
The Wikipedia article is most likely wrong as you can see in one of my post above.
Why would the wiki article be wrong and not yours ? I don't think these mangaka would put in the effort they do if their main target group was 6-10 year olds, especially someone like Oda who goes above and beyond for the smallest details.
HeroR wrote:As for Super's intended audience, when directly asked about it, the director said it was aimed at the same group as the rest of Dragon Ball.
Actions speak louder than words and what we've seen so far says the opposite.
Jesus-is Lord wrote:Look at goku at the end, he dosent have any blood shown - if this movie fails to show some intensity that old dragon ball felt - I will officially give up on modern dragon ball.
I can live without the blood as long as it's not full of gags like cutting to the Pilaf gang every 5 minutes or some of the odd to say the least modern anime tropes that Super tried to bring into DB.
How is cutting to Pilaf new when the Cell Saga had a bunch of cuts to Mr. Satan given pointless commentary? Or cuts on Namek where we get the misadventures of Bulma even when Freeza was torturing the heroes? This isn’t something new to Super or ‘modern’ anime.

It isn’t the ‘opposite’ at all. It’s fans who seemed to have not Z in awhile along with different broadcast standards since again, the One Piece anime toned it down.

Also, Oda is on record saying that One Piece is for boys and about ‘becoming a man’. Something being for kids doesn’t mean the creator doesn’t ‘above and beyond for the smallest details’. Why do you think Disney movies are so beloved by children and adults?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:59 pm

A quick heads up we are getting movie news on v jump.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:01 pm

Hawk9211 wrote:A quick heads up we are getting movie news on v jump.
When is that exactly?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AnimeNation101 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:01 pm

Hawk9211 wrote:A quick heads up we are getting movie news on v jump.
Isn’t that common knowledge at this point? Its basically always just a matter of what news we’ll be getting.

More plot details? Designs sheets for Gohan? Etc.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hawk9211 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:05 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:A quick heads up we are getting movie news on v jump.
When is that exactly?
21 is the official release date for vjump.There’s a scan on naruto forums.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:10 pm

I think there's a pull-out poster of Toyotaro's illustration too. He was posting something about it on twitter last night/this morning.

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