Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 2162
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:30 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:
prince212 wrote:I just watched trailer 2 , goku departing to the earth wearing saiyans armour and quite old kind of shocked me .
Anyone can refresh me how that was in the original manga ( aside of tv special or minus ) ?
I have the memories of a naked and smaller goku , when is grandpa began to take care of him , goku being a bad child before the accident that changed him
That scene is pretty much taken directly from Dragon Ball Minus. The TV special and the anime contradict this, but naked baby Goku was apparently not in the manga, so it isn't technically a retcon. All we knew officially was that Goku was apparently sent to Earth to kill all the inhabitants for Frieza, but Raditz could have easily been mistaken about that. Raditz was also wrong about how Planet Vegeta was destroyed, so he his word wasn't exactly reliable.
Well, the manga did briefly show an image of an infant Goku in order to tell the readers who “Kakarot” is, but I suppose you could just hand wave that as Raditz having never seen Goku as a toddler.

Frankly, I’m more curious as to how exactly Raditz knew Goku was on Earth. I guess we’re supposed to just assume that Bardock and Gine told him, but if that’s the case, why wouldn’t they also tell him why he was sent to Earth? Do they just not care about Raditz?

User avatar
Noah
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 7490
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:56 pm
Location: Virtual World

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Noah » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:12 pm

Nokra wrote:Why do people care SO much about "canon"? Just enjoy what you like and ignore what you don't like. Why is that so hard?
That's entirely my point: I mean in the end it doesn't matter how many next stories will happen on this series, the original manga is a completed work that was finished 23 years ago, it remains untouchable to this day and nothing will change that.

So people can pretty much stick with it and ignore everything else or consider Super/GT was official sequels, it really doesn't matter at all.

I just don't feel the need of people misinterpreting information here that this franchise has a canon when we know it doesn't.
TheNamekGio wrote:
Noah wrote:To this day, we have no established timeline according with the events of the past and current stories.
Can't tell if you're being serious or trolling because I believe GT was considered a side story and the movies were some other thing entirely separate. This site and DB guide books on japanese auction sites have timeline books I think. Not sure about current timeline though.
My friend, just because something is declared a side-story not exactly means non canon, we all know that GT, movies and everything else after are not attached with the original 42 volumes. Also read my post again, I meant a timeline considering all the current events of the franchise, that's including Super.
Miracles wrote:"Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball..."
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ama-intro/

Canon events of Dragonball timeline...
I could go on this side-story debate, but Kamiccolo9 explained better:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:First off, the problem of dealing in absolutes. When making an absolute your argument, all it requires is one contradiction to make the entire argument fall apart. Saying that GT is a side story, and because it is a side story, it is not canon, is making the assertion that side stories are, as a whole, not canon.

As a rebuttal to this, I present my evidence. All of the side stories I listed above are considered canon to their respective franchises. Therefore, saying that "GT cannot be canon because it is a side story" is faulty logic as, by their nature, side stories are not inherently non-canon to their respective franchises.

Second, there is the argument that Toriyama called GT a side story because he didn't like it, and that this somehow makes it non-canon.
Well, firstly, Toriyama's likes and dislikes don't really matter when determining canonicity, as he is not the sole rights holder. Second, being labeled a side story is not, and has never been, a sign of disdain for something. Third, he refers to it as a "Grand" side story, which doesn't really sound like an admonition against it.

So, in short, GT being a side story does not make it "not canon," nor does it mean that Toriyama dislikes the series. There are plenty of other arguments to make against GT's canonicity (as it stands in Dragon Ball), but this is not one of them.
Also you cannot be serious, to be using an english banner as a proof to your argument. We don't even know if that was (proper) translated from japanese.

The banner only states that the manga is a sequel to Toriyama's story, just like he said that Super (anime) would be after the Majin Boo conflict. Still nothing to do with canocity.
乃亜

Top 10 DB/Z/GT Songs

Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?

precita
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by precita » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:08 pm

If they ruin Bardock after 25+ years of history it's enough to hate this movie.

User avatar
Mister_Popo
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 798
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Mister_Popo » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:20 pm

Noah wrote:
Nokra wrote:Why do people care SO much about "canon"? Just enjoy what you like and ignore what you don't like. Why is that so hard?
That's entirely my point: I mean in the end it doesn't matter how many next stories will happen on this series, the original manga is a completed work that was finished 23 years ago, it remains untouchable to this day and nothing will change that.

So people can pretty much stick with it and ignore everything else or consider Super/GT was official sequels, it really doesn't matter at all.

I just don't feel the need of people misinterpreting information here that this franchise has a canon when we know it doesn't.
TheNamekGio wrote:
Noah wrote:To this day, we have no established timeline according with the events of the past and current stories.
Can't tell if you're being serious or trolling because I believe GT was considered a side story and the movies were some other thing entirely separate. This site and DB guide books on japanese auction sites have timeline books I think. Not sure about current timeline though.
My friend, just because something is declared a side-story not exactly means non canon, we all know that GT, movies and everything else after are not attached with the original 42 volumes. Also read my post again, I meant a timeline considering all the current events of the franchise, that's including Super.
Miracles wrote:"Dragon Ball GT is a grand side-story of the original Dragon Ball..."
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ama-intro/

Canon events of Dragonball timeline...
I could go on this side-story debate, but Kamiccolo9 explained better:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:First off, the problem of dealing in absolutes. When making an absolute your argument, all it requires is one contradiction to make the entire argument fall apart. Saying that GT is a side story, and because it is a side story, it is not canon, is making the assertion that side stories are, as a whole, not canon.

As a rebuttal to this, I present my evidence. All of the side stories I listed above are considered canon to their respective franchises. Therefore, saying that "GT cannot be canon because it is a side story" is faulty logic as, by their nature, side stories are not inherently non-canon to their respective franchises.

Second, there is the argument that Toriyama called GT a side story because he didn't like it, and that this somehow makes it non-canon.
Well, firstly, Toriyama's likes and dislikes don't really matter when determining canonicity, as he is not the sole rights holder. Second, being labeled a side story is not, and has never been, a sign of disdain for something. Third, he refers to it as a "Grand" side story, which doesn't really sound like an admonition against it.

So, in short, GT being a side story does not make it "not canon," nor does it mean that Toriyama dislikes the series. There are plenty of other arguments to make against GT's canonicity (as it stands in Dragon Ball), but this is not one of them.
Also you cannot be serious, to be using an english banner as a proof to your argument. We don't even know if that was (proper) translated from japanese.

The banner only states that the manga is a sequel to Toriyama's story, just like he said that Super (anime) would be after the Majin Boo conflict. Still nothing to do with canocity.
Nope, but there are several people misreading this fact and even insulting other people based on their sad misreadings.
Side story DOES NOT mean canon or not? Of course not. It's the perception of the creator that matters. Is the creator TOEI? No, they are merely executionors, it's Toriyama / Shueisha who still determine the main story seed at this point.

JACO the Patroloman and Minus are 'real sidestories' that Toriyama created himself, that's canon, GT or the orginal movies definitely are not.

The manga's depiction of Goku greatly contrasts to the TV special Dragon Ball Z: Bardock - The Father of Goku. In this story, Goku's age at the time of Planet Vegeta's destruction is different than in other media: he is three years old, in contrast to a few days old. Of course he is going to be older in this movie. That's a 'retcon' that's somehow believable. How do you send a Saiyan child to another planet, expecting it to defend itself and survive in the first place? Goku being a little bit older is more believable, along with the fact it establishes more interaction with the parents, which means more emotional involvement (from the viewers point).

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3061
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:18 pm

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1051264200872321025 This week's interview is with Lemo's voice actor. Apparently he's a pretty big fan of Cell. :P

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 2743
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Noah wrote:I could go on this side-story debate, but Kamiccolo9 explained better:
Except Toriyama states in the interview how he had nothing to do with the story plot of GT. Therefore he says it's a side story of the original comic. We know Minus is a side story but we know Toriyama DID write the story and has the same events mentioned/included in the original DB comic. So all your excuses don't work.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5652
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:39 pm

That is enough of derail. There is a more proper thread to discuss canonicity. Take it there.
Video-games - You are weak. Why are you weak?
Dragon Ball Super - *Coughs*
Video-games - Because you lack... Content.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:48 pm

Miracles wrote:
Noah wrote:I could go on this side-story debate, but Kamiccolo9 explained better:
Except Toriyama states in the interview how he had nothing to do with the story plot of GT. Therefore he says it's a side story of the original comic. We know Minus is a side story but we know Toriyama DID write the story and has the same events mentioned/included in the original DB comic. So all your excuses don't work.
Yeah exactly. I really don't see how this is up for debate. It is appaling

RecolorSaiyan
Regular
Posts: 605
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:40 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:56 pm

Image

Was this discussed when it was said months ago? There goes my theory of gogeta vs broly being the final fight :cry:

User avatar
Noah
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 7490
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:56 pm
Location: Virtual World

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Noah » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:10 pm

Miracles wrote:Except Toriyama states in the interview how he had nothing to do with the story plot of GT. Therefore he says it's a side story of the original comic. We know Minus is a side story but we know Toriyama DID write the story and has the same events mentioned/included in the original DB comic. So all your excuses don't work.
Mate, you keep repeating the same arguments just to get into nowhere.

I don't care if you don't realize your misinterpretations, the fact is no one ever sat down and said:
"Apart from the official story, the original 519 chapters written by Akira Toriyama, we consider these other things, and absolutely nothing else."

No one in any official capacity of this franchise, that is.
乃亜

Top 10 DB/Z/GT Songs

Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?

User avatar
shadowmaria
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by shadowmaria » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:14 pm

Miracles wrote:
Noah wrote:I could go on this side-story debate, but Kamiccolo9 explained better:
Except Toriyama states in the interview how he had nothing to do with the story plot of GT. Therefore he says it's a side story of the original comic. We know Minus is a side story but we know Toriyama DID write the story and has the same events mentioned/included in the original DB comic. So all your excuses don't work.
Except in this interview when the GT Producer explicitly states that Toriyama had more involvement in the story than most give him credit for: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... interview/

User avatar
PremiumSalt
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:58 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PremiumSalt » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:15 pm

Funny, I didn't realize this was the "DB Canon Debate" thread....
Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Tournament of Power 8. 21st Budōkai 9. Broly 10. Battle of Gods 11. Boo 12. U6 Tournament 13. Freeza 14. Red Ribbon Army 15. Artificial Humans/Cell 16.Golden Freeza
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.

User avatar
Chuquita
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15035
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:16 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Chuquita » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:17 pm

Major thank you to Herms for that Sugita interview translation because:
Is a wonderful hook!
Finally! I've got something fun to theorize about! Thank you Sugita and Herms!
My deviantart * My tumblr * My twitter
---
フレフレ みんあ! フレフレ 私!

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5652
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:04 pm

PremiumSalt wrote:Funny, I didn't realize this was the "DB Canon Debate" thread....
The necessary action has been taken.
Chuquita wrote:Apparently the last scene of the movie is really something: "Goku finally...!"
What more can they do with Goku? If it were Goten, Trunks and/or Marron I could guess what it could possibly be, but something else is going to happen with Goku (for a change...). Anyway, has Goku finally changed to his blue outfit!?
Video-games - You are weak. Why are you weak?
Dragon Ball Super - *Coughs*
Video-games - Because you lack... Content.

User avatar
Appers
Newbie
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:57 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Appers » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:33 pm

Apparently the last scene of the movie is really something: "Goku finally...!"
Only thing I can think of that would be surprising is if Goku meets his parents at the end of the movie and gets to talk to them or something.

User avatar
Simere
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Simere » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:55 pm

Goku finally...realizes his friends are holding him back and sets off on a new journey alone!

User avatar
1345521
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:07 am

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by 1345521 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:15 am

Why is modern dragonball so kid friendly, the story has become more basic, and it looks like the movie is going to be very PG in terms of the violence shown. I need blood, and this movie looks like there is no blood. Why is modern dragon ball getting so soft? UGH.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12698
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:24 am

My guess is that Gokuu finally remembers his parents from before he left Planet Vegeta and their memory will help him slip back into the Secret of Selfishness after Gogeta fails to defeat Broli. This will contrast with Broli, who was raised by his parent and remembers what he was raised to believe: that he was the strongest Saiyan.
•Julie | She/Her | Pansexual/Bisexual | Transgender |

User avatar
MegaBossMan
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:08 am

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MegaBossMan » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:31 am

1345521 wrote:Why is modern dragonball so kid friendly, the story has become more basic, and it looks like the movie is going to be very PG in terms of the violence shown. I need blood, and this movie looks like there is no blood. Why is modern dragon ball getting so soft? UGH.
Now, I have to ask, and this isn't meant as a personal criticism per se, but why does Dragon Ball need blood to you? Maturity in a work, even if it's never been Dragon Ball's own strong suit, can be found in other aspects moving beyond the basic spectacle of red liquid. Of course, as I understand it times have changed and social mores have influenced the sort of content that televised children's shows in Japan are allowed to display, which may be an unfortunate shame to some but simply a part of necessary procedure. However, blood doesn't automatically help a show in its writing nor does it truly strengthen the impact of action in a scene; I've always felt that blood really only ever works when properly contextualized by its director. So, what makes blood important in a Dragon Ball story for you, and why couldn't it necessarily work without blood?
By jove, I've got nothing important to say!

User avatar
Chuquita
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15035
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:16 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Chuquita » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:51 am

Grimlock wrote:
Chuquita wrote:Apparently the last scene of the movie is really something: "Goku finally...!"
What more can they do with Goku? If it were Goten, Trunks and/or Marron I could guess what it could possibly be, but something else is going to happen with Goku (for a change...). Anyway, has Goku finally changed to his blue outfit!?
I still really like Goku's EoZ blue outfit, but I think I like his non-canon DBH cold weather dougi more. That said I'd be happy to see the blue outfit show up.

My heavier bets are still on the latter two I put in the spoiler brackets that I guess I didn't need to put there because they're not spoilers.
I think it'll either be:
-Goku regains UI form
OR
-Goku regains his Kakarrotto memories

With my longshot/darkhorse guess being:
-they make good on that awkward first kiss plot thread that made it into both versions of Super and somebody gives Goku his first on-the-mouth kiss
My deviantart * My tumblr * My twitter
---
フレフレ みんあ! フレフレ 私!

Post Reply