Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:40 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:Toei wrote Freeza character in such a brilliant way in Universe Survival arc that would be interesting to go deeper with his plot of overtaking the Gods.
But If he's forcing Paragus to control Broly and as everyone already knows he was the one to destroy Planet Vegeta, then I doubt he will survive in the end.

Honestly at this point feels like Toriyama is holding Toei back, but let's see how it goes.
Didn't they mention his plot to overthrow the gods in one of the promo interviews? Or that that might be his ultimate ambition?

If he's after the Dragon Balls like that one summary said he might have some other plot afoot.
I believe they did say that at some point in one of the promotional pieces but I don't recall which. I don't think that plot point will be dropped, I think Broly will be used as an instrument for him to complete this task. He uses Broly so now he has the ability to overpower everyone on Earth, and he uses the Dragon Balls to gain immortality so he can't die anyway.
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Mnich wrote:He looked way better in BoG, probably because of Yamamuro (?). Even so, they still fixed him in Super BoG arc, I guess there is still hope that they will fix him again in Super Broly arc.
Fix what? It's just a promo pic, things look very different when animated
There's nothing to fix in the first place. This iteration of kid Vegeta is more biologically accurate to the Saiyans.
JulieYBM wrote:So, Paragus is apparently actually the type of person to try and be a good father, eh? Interesting. I'm glad that Toriyama is breaking out of his usual comfort-zone by pushing to make Paragus conflicted. He wants to do right by his son but at the same time it's hard to pass up the chance to avenge himself and his son for their fucked up life by making use of the very son he's trying to right by. I'm feeling really good about this movie. It's a shame they're only being given 100 minutes.
I agree 100% with everything you said. I want Paragus to be sympathetic in the sense that he wants to be a good father but can't resist getting revenge on Vegeta and the royal blood line.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Noah » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:46 pm

You know I think this movie could be the perfect opportunity to reboot Coola too (if Toriyama feels like), though is not like he could do on another time too.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:59 pm

JulieYBM wrote:So, Paragus is apparently actually the type of person to try and be a good father, eh? Interesting. I'm glad that Toriyama is breaking out of his usual comfort-zone by pushing to make Paragus conflicted. He wants to do right by his son but at the same time it's hard to pass up the chance to avenge himself and his son for their fucked up life by making use of the very son he's trying to right by. I'm feeling really good about this movie. It's a shame they're only being given 100 minutes.
Don't worry about that for now, because the chances of this movie get a retelling when the anime comes back are pretty high.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheOne » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:06 pm

zarmack wrote:
TheOne wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:Toei wrote Freeza character in such a brilliant way in Universe Survival arc that would be interesting to go deeper with his plot of overtaking the Gods.
But If he's forcing Paragus to control Broly and as everyone already knows he was the one to destroy Planet Vegeta, then I doubt he will survive in the end.

Honestly at this point feels like Toriyama is holding Toei back, but let's see how it goes.
Stop. I can’t believe someone would say that Toriyama is holding Toei back...

If anything, he’s stopping them from making ridiculous, out of universe changes. Unless you completely forgot about all the issues with series during its run? I’m not about to go into too much detail about it. My days of writing long posts are over with. But to say that Toei would be better off running the show, is completely asinine.
Many of the worst decisions made for Super (both versions) came directly from Toriyama. And speaking of DB(Z), Toei has outshined Toriyama several times with the original series. Just compare Toei's superior versions of History of Trunks story, the Bardock story, Goku vs Majin Vegeta, Piccolo vs 17, Gohan becoming a SSJ for the 1st time, Gohan vs Buutenks, etc to Toriyama's versions from the original manga and DB Minus to see what I mean.
DB(Z) had a blueprint to follow. All they did was build off of what was already there. Toriyama is not perfect. I disagree with a lot of his decisions concerning the Super series. The guy literally forgot about the existence of Broly, and made Roshi “relevant and strong” despite how his strength has been surpassed since King Piccolo. He’s not good at his job.

That being said, Toei has forgotten little details in the show that fans easily remember. On more than one occasion, you could tell that the ones writing Super were probably not fans of the series. The writing came across as people who were “familiar” with the series, but not necessarily fans that know the little details.

So many times Toei had creative liberty in the Super series due to not having a manga to follow, and they fell on their faces. To say that Toei should have more freedom is ridiculous. I’d rather they operate on a leash than do too much. Basically, it’s pick your poison.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Simere » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:17 pm

I'd like to see the bravery to follow through with the idea that saiyans don't have the same conception of family as humans rather than this "good father" triteness.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by 1345521 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:40 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
HeroR wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote: No. Vegeta had a completely different design in the BoG movie and arc.
https://www.tumblr.com/reblog/126829048159/FDgLuhgT

The one in the Battle of Gods Saga is based on his old anime design.
Ok? I was just telling you that Vegeta didn’t have the same design in BoG that he does now since you said that the new kid Vegeta design we have was the same one in the BoG movie
Oh, a guy with a simliar profile pick was complaining about the deisgns.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Konja7 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:28 am

Simere wrote:I'd like to see the bravery to follow through with the idea that saiyans don't have the same conception of family as humans rather than this "good father" triteness.
Why?

I mean the idea of saiyan fathers "worried" about their sons isn't really new for the saiyans, we saw this before in other movies. It was only new for Bardock when Minus happened.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:09 am

zarmack wrote:
TheOne wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:Toei wrote Freeza character in such a brilliant way in Universe Survival arc that would be interesting to go deeper with his plot of overtaking the Gods.
But If he's forcing Paragus to control Broly and as everyone already knows he was the one to destroy Planet Vegeta, then I doubt he will survive in the end.

Honestly at this point feels like Toriyama is holding Toei back, but let's see how it goes.
Stop. I can’t believe someone would say that Toriyama is holding Toei back...

If anything, he’s stopping them from making ridiculous, out of universe changes. Unless you completely forgot about all the issues with series during its run? I’m not about to go into too much detail about it. My days of writing long posts are over with. But to say that Toei would be better off running the show, is completely asinine.
Many of the worst decisions made for Super (both versions) came directly from Toriyama. And speaking of DB(Z), Toei has outshined Toriyama several times with the original series. Just compare Toei's superior versions of History of Trunks story, the Bardock story, Goku vs Majin Vegeta, Piccolo vs 17, Gohan becoming a SSJ for the 1st time, Gohan vs Buutenks, etc to Toriyama's versions from the original manga and DB Minus to see what I mean.
I vastly prefer the manga of the Buu arc especially the way the Majin Vegeta fight was handled. The fight was a waste of time was just a minor plot point, so Toriyama rightfully chose not to concentrate on it. instead Toei dragged it on and it became boring to the point I groaned whenever they cut back to it.

Toei had a full special to Bardock's story whereas Toriyama only had one bonus chapter, hardly a comparison this movie would be a better judge, plus Toei's Bardock special was fluff. Literally nothing happens it just shows us events we know of, Vegeta blew up and a few Saiyans survived, it didn't expand the lore at all, we barely saw any of the Saiyans, hardly any of Planet Vegeta anything of the King, Freeza was barely present, we got cheesy plot convenient psychic powers to drive the plot & Bardock's character. The trailer for the new movie alone shows us more lore than that special ever did. Hell for Kai Toei just showed the end of the special because that is the only relevant thing from it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by 1345521 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:29 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
zarmack wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Stop. I can’t believe someone would say that Toriyama is holding Toei back...

If anything, he’s stopping them from making ridiculous, out of universe changes. Unless you completely forgot about all the issues with series during its run? I’m not about to go into too much detail about it. My days of writing long posts are over with. But to say that Toei would be better off running the show, is completely asinine.
Many of the worst decisions made for Super (both versions) came directly from Toriyama. And speaking of DB(Z), Toei has outshined Toriyama several times with the original series. Just compare Toei's superior versions of History of Trunks story, the Bardock story, Goku vs Majin Vegeta, Piccolo vs 17, Gohan becoming a SSJ for the 1st time, Gohan vs Buutenks, etc to Toriyama's versions from the original manga and DB Minus to see what I mean.
I vastly prefer the manga of the Buu arc especially the way the Majin Vegeta fight was handled. The fight was a waste of time was just a minor plot point, so Toriyama rightfully chose not to concentrate on it. instead Toei dragged it on and it became boring to the point I groaned whenever they cut back to it.

Toei had a full special to Bardock's story whereas Toriyama only had one bonus chapter, hardly a comparison this movie would be a better judge, plus Toei's Bardock special was fluff. Literally nothing happens it just shows us events we know of, Vegeta blew up and a few Saiyans survived, it didn't expand the lore at all, we barely saw any of the Saiyans, hardly any of Planet Vegeta anything of the King, Freeza was barely present, we got cheesy plot convenient psychic powers to drive the plot & Bardock's character. The trailer for the new movie alone shows us more lore than that special ever did. Hell for Kai Toei just showed the end of the special because that is the only relevant thing from it.
I dissagree, maybe to you it was bothersome since you had watched the manga first and knew what happened: but to others, the fight and build-up was porbably more exciting then just skimming and getting to the sacafice to where it losses its epicness.
The special > bonus chapter dude. Give credit where credit is due, plus the special was so good that even toriyama inclduded it in his manga. The movie was about bardock, not about the sayains. the movie did wonders for dragon ball as it created a fan-favorite character in bardock plus showing us a little about the sayains. I think that's way more important then extra background stuff about the sayains which is largely going to be overshdowed by the main fight. I agree with the dude, toei's DBZ and DB>>>>>>>>>>>Db akira manga.

The movie is promising though, I just wouldn't kinda downplay the work toei did to really bring akiras manga to life. Just like we hope they do with this movie to akiras "script notes" LOL.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:57 am

Simere wrote:I'd like to see the bravery to follow through with the idea that saiyans don't have the same conception of family as humans rather than this "good father" triteness.
Isn't this Paragus more or less the same as the old one? He pleaded with King Vegeta to spare his son's life and showed pride in his son's strength while still using his as a weapon for...revenge or galactic domination or whatever the hell he was doing.

Gine took care of the kids in Goku's unusual little family unit until Bardock started caring at the end, but I think it's rather interesting that in the other families we've seen (the Vegetas and Broly/Paragus) it seems like the children stay with the father and so far we haven't seen the mothers. I wonder if that's standard practice?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:27 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Toei had a full special to Bardock's story whereas Toriyama only had one bonus chapter, hardly a comparison this movie would be a better judge,
You talk as if someone else forced Toei and Toriyama to work with that format. Toei had a full TV Special, but they could have made a movie, an OVA or anything else. The same goes for Toriyama, he is solely the one to blame for mistakenly choosing to work with just one chapter. So fair or not, we can compare.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Literally nothing happens it just shows us events we know of, Vegeta blew up and a few Saiyans survived.
What? :crazy: Imagine yourself in October 1990. All you knew was that a meteor hit planet Vegeta and that there were only four surivors. How does the TV Special showed you events that you already knew about? Well, nevermind this question, if you knew stuff prior to the release of the TV Special, please answer me these ones:

• How was Bardock's character?
• How did Goku was send to Earth?
• How were Saiyans like?
• What did Bardock end up doing when the "meteor" hits Vegeta?
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:we got cheesy plot convenient psychic powers to drive the plot & Bardock's character.
Either that or the cheesy plot convenient "guessing powers" to drive the plot and Bardock's character. I think I'll stick with the "psychic powers", not only made things more dramatic, it was more believable that only Bardock knew that Freeza was up to something. In this new version, it makes all Saiyans stupid, they can't even put two on two.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by majinwarman » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:54 am

Miracles wrote:
majinwarman wrote:I think that this movie will find a way to make sure that Beerus and Whis isn't a problem for the story.
Well they really aren't a problem cause they don't really involve themselves. Only time was ROF when Beerus and Whis wanted that do over.
U6 tourney is something they orchestrated and the TOP was Zenoh who kept them in check.
But remember, Beerus has his own intentions for Goku and Vegeta as he is grooming them for the prophetic showdown. So they will always be involved in some way.

I wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama connects his child of destiny to be the super saiyan god who prophetically defeats Beerus later on.
That could be something.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Simere » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:59 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Simere wrote:I'd like to see the bravery to follow through with the idea that saiyans don't have the same conception of family as humans rather than this "good father" triteness.
Isn't this Paragus more or less the same as the old one? He pleaded with King Vegeta to spare his son's life and showed pride in his son's strength while still using his as a weapon for...revenge or galactic domination or whatever the hell he was doing.
i still haven't seen the old movies. They were made before Toriyama gave us that tidbit about how saiyans view family, though. Different races in sci-fi/fantasy allow for easier conceptualizing of different ways societies can be structured; sticking so closely to what we understand to be human is always disappointing, especially when they've already been stated to be different.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Konja7 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:00 am

Grimlock wrote:In this new version, it makes all Saiyans stupid, they can't even put two on two.
How this doesn't happen in the old version?

In any case, Bardock is smarter in this new version, because he doesn't need powers to suspect Freeza.


Simere wrote:i still haven't seen the old movies. They were made before Toriyama gave us that tidbit about how saiyans view family, though. Different races in sci-fi/fantasy allow for easier conceptualizing of different ways societies can be structured; sticking so closely to what we understand to be human is always disappointing, especially when they've already been stated to be different.
Well, some tibdits about how Saiyan view family is introduced from the moments Raditz appear.

Raditz mentioned that they have parents and he gave some importance to them (when he spoke about their death). Then, both parents should still have some importance on the saiyan culture.


Also, in the manga, Raditz mention that Goku should remember him. Then, Bardock's special sending him as baby, it doesn't have sense and contradicts the manga.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Konja7 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:16 am

Simere wrote:i still haven't seen the old movies. They were made before Toriyama gave us that tidbit about how saiyans view family, though. Different races in sci-fi/fantasy allow for easier conceptualizing of different ways societies can be structured; sticking so closely to what we understand to be human is always disappointing, especially when they've already been stated to be different.
Well, some tibdits about how Saiyan view family is introduced from the moments Raditz appear.

Raditz mentioned that they have parents and he gave some importance to them (when he spoke about their death). Then, both parents should still have some importance on the saiyan culture.


Also, in the manga, Raditz mention that Goku should remember him. Then, Bardock's special sending him as baby, it doesn't have sense and contradicts the manga.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:36 am

HeroR wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
HeroR wrote:
https://www.tumblr.com/reblog/126829048159/FDgLuhgT

The one in the Battle of Gods Saga is based on his old anime design.
Ok? I was just telling you that Vegeta didn’t have the same design in BoG that he does now since you said that the new kid Vegeta design we have was the same one in the BoG movie
It is since Battle of Gods movie Vegeta is just a smaller version of adult Vegeta.
Oh. Lol, i mixed up by B.o.G anime memories with my movie memories
1345521 wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
HeroR wrote:
https://www.tumblr.com/reblog/126829048159/FDgLuhgT

The one in the Battle of Gods Saga is based on his old anime design.
Ok? I was just telling you that Vegeta didn’t have the same design in BoG that he does now since you said that the new kid Vegeta design we have was the same one in the BoG movie
Oh, a guy with a simliar profile pick was complaining about the deisgns.
Oh, lol
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:48 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Simere wrote:I'd like to see the bravery to follow through with the idea that saiyans don't have the same conception of family as humans rather than this "good father" triteness.
Isn't this Paragus more or less the same as the old one? He pleaded with King Vegeta to spare his son's life and showed pride in his son's strength while still using his as a weapon for...revenge or galactic domination or whatever the hell he was doing.

Gine took care of the kids in Goku's unusual little family unit until Bardock started caring at the end, but I think it's rather interesting that in the other families we've seen (the Vegetas and Broly/Paragus) it seems like the children stay with the father and so far we haven't seen the mothers. I wonder if that's standard practice?
I think that has more to do with Toriyama's reluctance/general inability to write/design female characters than any in-universe reasoning.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:41 am

Konja7 wrote:How this doesn't happen in the old version?
Because I don't remember Freeza ordering all Saiyans to return in the TV Special.
Konja7 wrote:In any case, Bardock is smarter in this new version, because he doesn't need powers to suspect Freeza.
Yeah, either Bardock is finally the brilliant scientist Saiyan and smarter than his entire race for being the only one who suspects or everyone else is just stupid for not being able to put two on two.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:42 am

Simere wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:
Simere wrote:I'd like to see the bravery to follow through with the idea that saiyans don't have the same conception of family as humans rather than this "good father" triteness.
Isn't this Paragus more or less the same as the old one? He pleaded with King Vegeta to spare his son's life and showed pride in his son's strength while still using his as a weapon for...revenge or galactic domination or whatever the hell he was doing.
i still haven't seen the old movies. They were made before Toriyama gave us that tidbit about how saiyans view family, though. Different races in sci-fi/fantasy allow for easier conceptualizing of different ways societies can be structured; sticking so closely to what we understand to be human is always disappointing, especially when they've already been stated to be different.
You have a point about when the movie was made. From what we've seen they do view familial relationships a bit differently. Normally they don't form nuclear family units with two parents and the children. They don't seem to pair up with their mates. Didn't one of those interviews say that Saiyans typically just mate to reproduce? That fits with how Vegeta/Bulma started. Goku was also a total dunce on the 'romance' thing but still started a family. We also don't see extended family. No cousins or grandparents.

I think part of the problem with the Saiyans is that we're told they're different from humans, but they still look and act like humans, just with some negative traits amplified. Going back to Goku and Vegeta and their families, you could probably make the case that they aren't the best family men because that's just how Saiyans do, but you can also read it as a result of their personalities. Goku is an ignorant bumpkin and a little dense and Vegeta is a selfish, self-absorbed asshole. They have a lot of familiar human traits and since there are so many types of human family units, most family structures would be similar to something in our world, I think.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Konja7 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:20 pm

Grimlock wrote:Because I don't remember Freeza ordering all Saiyans to return in the TV Special.
So, in the Bardock special, all the saiyans were on the planet by coincidence (although they constantly travels to conquer other planets), before it was destroyed. Right?


BlueBasilisk wrote:You have a point about when the movie was made. From what we've seen they do view familial relationships a bit differently. Normally they don't form nuclear family units with two parents and the children. They don't seem to pair up with their mates. Didn't one of those interviews say that Saiyans typically just mate to reproduce? That fits with how Vegeta/Bulma started. Goku was also a total dunce on the 'romance' thing but still started a family. We also don't see extended family. No cousins or grandparents.

I think part of the problem with the Saiyans is that we're told they're different from humans, but they still look and act like humans, just with some negative traits amplified. Going back to Goku and Vegeta and their families, you could probably make the case that they aren't the best family men because that's just how Saiyans do, but you can also read it as a result of their personalities. Goku is an ignorant bumpkin and a little dense and Vegeta is a selfish, self-absorbed asshole. They have a lot of familiar human traits and since there are so many types of human family units, most family structures would be similar to something in our world, I think.
Well, Raditz spoke about his parents (he even gave certain relevance to their death), so he should know both.

I think the interview say that the saiyans only pair up to reproduce. However, this imply that marriage exists for saiyans, but the relationship between them isn't really romantic (the love is the strange in the marriage of Gine and Bardock).

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