Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:16 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
CTAkuma wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:Take this with a grain of salt since someone translated a snippet on /a/: But it appears SSB Goku doesn't have stamina issues in the film while SSB Vegeta does
And where does this information come from? From the stickersets perhaps?

Yeah I believe so. It would also fit with Nagamine's statement about goku quickly approaching the level of the gods while vegeta is desperately trying to catch up. If one has huge stamina issues and the other one doesn't then its gonna play a big part in reaching that level
Which wouldn't make any sense since Vegeta unlocked a stronger version of SSB which explicitly didn't have any major stamina issues.

And the thing about Goku being closer to the GoDs could be referring to the fact that he has UI.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:24 pm

zarmack wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:
CTAkuma wrote: And where does this information come from? From the stickersets perhaps?

Yeah I believe so. It would also fit with Nagamine's statement about goku quickly approaching the level of the gods while vegeta is desperately trying to catch up. If one has huge stamina issues and the other one doesn't then its gonna play a big part in reaching that level
Which wouldn't make any sense since Vegeta unlocked a stronger version of SSB which explicitly didn't have any major stamina issues.

And the thing about Goku being closer to the GoDs could be referring to the fact that he has UI.

1. CSSB in the manga is supposed to be very very hard on your body and even in the anime, Whis in the ToP said ssb drains a ton of stamina. In the ToP version neither version did a good job showing it but its still supposed to be there

2. UI was stated to be above the gods in power and seeing how goku was able to overwhelm jiren with it until his body gave out, that can't be it. I think they are referring to goku sans UI in comparison to gods

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:27 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
zarmack wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:

Yeah I believe so. It would also fit with Nagamine's statement about goku quickly approaching the level of the gods while vegeta is desperately trying to catch up. If one has huge stamina issues and the other one doesn't then its gonna play a big part in reaching that level
Which wouldn't make any sense since Vegeta unlocked a stronger version of SSB which explicitly didn't have any major stamina issues.

And the thing about Goku being closer to the GoDs could be referring to the fact that he has UI.

1. CSSB in the manga is supposed to be very very hard on your body and even in the anime, Whis in the ToP said ssb drains a ton of stamina. In the ToP version neither version did a good job showing it but its still supposed to be there

2. UI was stated to be above the gods in power and seeing how goku was able to overwhelm jiren with it until his body gave out, that can't be it. I think they are referring to goku sans UI in comparison to gods
I was referring to Blue Evolution, which Vegeta could tap into even with low stamina in both versions.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:30 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:If that's true its kinda strange Goku is the one in advantage, considering Vegeta unlocked a stronger version of SSB in both versions and he has been using the Time Chamber more than Goku...
Yeah, but it wouldn't be the first time that happened. Remember the Future Trunks arc? Vegeta used the hyperbolic time chamber and was able to defeat Black but Goku was able to rival or overwhelm Merged Zamasu at full power. That happened in both versions, just in slightly different ways.

That's really puzzling if true. Unless it's something like Vegeta's SSB still has the normal drain and Goku has somehow made his more efficient like Mastered Super Saiyan. I'm not really sure how Vegeta's powered up versions of SSB fit into that either since he used both for 5 minutes or less. Even his last push against Jiren in 127 was under a minute.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:55 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:Take this with a grain of salt since someone translated a snippet on /a/: But it appears SSB Goku doesn't have stamina issues in the film while SSB Vegeta does
This just adds to me theory that Toriyama is reluctant to make new forms up or have UI be ultilised so soon, so he hinders Vegeta to make him below Goku.

Then Evolution complicates things even more but I guess they can sort of tie the stamina issue of Vegeta in with that by giving some explanation that while unlocking Evolution for the short period of time Vegeta hindered his use of God Ki or something (Vegeta couldn't transform again after he was exhausted yet his remaining Ki was enough to make Goku go SSGSS) and now he struggles to get into SSGSS let alone Evolution, this could also explain why he trained to get SSG.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ankokudaishogun » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:23 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:Take this with a grain of salt since someone translated a snippet on /a/: But it appears SSB Goku doesn't have stamina issues in the film while SSB Vegeta does
Not exactly: the sticker said SSB consumes a lot of stamina, that's why Vegeta can't use it for long, but it doesn't says Goku doesn't have this problem.

Stickers also reveal Full Power Broly is 3 meters tall.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:42 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Rakurai wrote: Define DB community. Are you talking about the internet, which makes up a small percentage of people that actually consume DB, or the elitists like YouTubers/Twitters that only comprise an even smaller percentage of people (I wouldn't even give it 5% tbh) that consume DB in general?
The echo chamber effect of the internet makes it really easy to lose sight of this and it applies equally to both the anime and the manga, I think. The online fandom is constantly at each others' throats with their anime vs manga war but both versions of the series continue to do very well for themselves.

It's kinda like Broly. The hard core fandom really despised him to the point it was hard to even talk about him before Toriyama's stamp of approval made it socially acceptable to like him again, but he was constantly showing up in video games and the like because evidently he's quite popular and a lot of people like him despite his flaws.
The Super manga vs the anime is a very small minority because the fact of the matter is, most fans don't even know the Super manga exists. Not helped that the manga exclusive stuff is almost never marketed, like Super Saiyan Black. Most didn't even know Super Saiyan God Vegeta has been a thing in the manga for years.
FortuneSSJ wrote:If that's true its kinda strange Goku is the one in advantage, considering Vegeta unlocked a stronger version of SSB in both versions and he has been using the Time Chamber more than Goku...
He also used the Time Chamber more in the Cell Saga and was still laughably behind Goku, so that isn't new.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kinokima » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:37 pm

HeroR wrote:
The Super manga vs the anime is a very small minority because the fact of the matter is, most fans don't even know the Super manga exists. Not helped that the manga exclusive stuff is almost never marketed, like Super Saiyan Black. Most didn't even know Super Saiyan God Vegeta has been a thing in the manga for years.
The DBS manga is actually a top seller both in Japan and abroad. So not really sure where you are getting "small minority" from.


Also I think people are taking the stickers too literally. I highly doubt only Vegeta will have stamina issues in SSB. It’s probably SSB in general will have stamina issues for both Goku & Vegeta.

Edit: If you look at Cipher’s tweets who I trust more than someone on /a/ no where does it say Goku doesn’t have stamina issues. The absence of it in Goku’s sticker doesn’t mean Goku doesn’t have stamina issues. It’s just the two stickers give different info about the form.

https://twitter.com/cipher_db/status/10 ... 19072?s=21

https://twitter.com/cipher_db/status/10 ... 04576?s=21
Last edited by Kinokima on Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by CTAkuma » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:38 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:Stickers also reveal Full Power Broly is 3 meters tall.
3 Meters? That's 10' foot, the Original Broli was 9'0. Jesus he is huge

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:05 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Miracles wrote:I love the way Toriyama actually makes red and blue GODLIKE. He's actually showing that red and blue is all that is necessary to compete.
Showing that god ki ain't useless but stands up to it's name as something special.
I'm not really seeing any difference. Broly just seems another character that doesn't have God ki and will keep up with them.
Broly is obviously going to be stronger than the last opponents Goku and Vegeta faced. So instead of needing extras like SSBE or KK Blue, Toriyama has just plain old red and blue, enough to handle incredible opponents. Making the god forms special.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheMikado » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:20 pm

Miracles wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:
Miracles wrote:I love the way Toriyama actually makes red and blue GODLIKE. He's actually showing that red and blue is all that is necessary to compete.
Showing that god ki ain't useless but stands up to it's name as something special.
I'm not really seeing any difference. Broly just seems another character that doesn't have God ki and will keep up with them.
Broly is obviously going to be stronger than the last opponents Goku and Vegeta faced. So instead of needing extras like SSBE or KK Blue, Toriyama has just plain old red and blue, enough to handle incredible opponents. Making the god forms special.
All those forms stem from God ki. He’s saying that we are getting yet another person casually reaching the realm of God ki without God ki. Basically that level of power is no longer special, which doesn’t help that we’ve reached the cap as according to Toriyama having Zeno being the peak.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:47 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Miracles wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote: I'm not really seeing any difference. Broly just seems another character that doesn't have God ki and will keep up with them.
Broly is obviously going to be stronger than the last opponents Goku and Vegeta faced. So instead of needing extras like SSBE or KK Blue, Toriyama has just plain old red and blue, enough to handle incredible opponents. Making the god forms special.
All those forms stem from God ki. He’s saying that we are getting yet another person casually reaching the realm of God ki without God ki. Basically that level of power is no longer special, which doesn’t help that we’ve reached the cap as according to Toriyama having Zeno being the peak.
I understand but Ki is energy, god powers is a certain level of that energy. That's all it is. It's not surprising opponents would be at such a level.
I'm just saying red and blue is being actually used and focused on for such great opponents, giving them a special place instead of needing something greater.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AnimeNation101 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:53 pm

Rakurai wrote:
IM21 wrote: youtubers and twitter told him
That would be sad. They don't even make up a majority of the DB community based on numbers alone, when compared to the number of DBS volumes sold.
AnimeNation101 wrote: Most of the vocal members if the db community
Define DB community. Are you talking about the internet, which makes up a small percentage of people that actually consume DB, or the elitists like YouTubers/Twitters that only comprise an even smaller percentage of people (I wouldn't even give it 5% tbh) that consume DB in general?
I literally said the vocal members of the community. So basically the people in the comments of youtube, other social media, sometimes real life. The people who i can hear/see talking about dragon ball.

Also, i know people here like to think that the db community online is but a small portion of the whole db community. Thats wrong. On the contrary, most of the db community IS online. With how important the internet is in the lives of most of the population, people of the db community gather in groups where they can talk about dragon ball on the internet, whether it be reddit, kanzenshuu, or the comment section of a video. If you’re apart of a community/fandom of something like a show, movie, book series, or video game, 90 percent of the time, you’d be vocal about it on the internet. Thats just the way the world is now.

So yeah. The db community that talks on the internet is WAY bigger than 5 percent of the whole db community. And from what I've seen of them, theres way more bashing of Toyotaro than praise. And for good reason might i add.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AnimeNation101 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:58 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Rakurai wrote: Define DB community. Are you talking about the internet, which makes up a small percentage of people that actually consume DB, or the elitists like YouTubers/Twitters that only comprise an even smaller percentage of people (I wouldn't even give it 5% tbh) that consume DB in general?
The echo chamber effect of the internet makes it really easy to lose sight of this and it applies equally to both the anime and the manga, I think. The online fandom is constantly at each others' throats with their anime vs manga war but both versions of the series continue to do very well for themselves.

It's kinda like Broly. The hard core fandom really despised him to the point it was hard to even talk about him before Toriyama's stamp of approval made it socially acceptable to like him again, but he was constantly showing up in video games and the like because evidently he's quite popular and a lot of people like him despite his flaws.
I dont get how you think that the db community that is vocal online isn’t a huge portion of the overall community or fandom. Because the way we’re using community, it’s basically the same as saying the db fandom. With how large of a portion the internet is in peoples’ lives, i dont get how you can think the db fans on twitter, reddit, kanzenshuu, other forums, and the comments of youtube videos that get tons of views DON’T make up a big portion of our fandom.

If you’re a fan of something and live in the 21st century, its logical that you would be vocal about what you love on the internet. I’d say the db fandom online takes up a majority of the db fandom in all. You guys are HUGELY underestimating it.

Maybe its because most of yall only experience the online english side of the fandom when there are plenty of vocal online db fans that are apart of other sides of the world and therefore, don’t communicate with us. Like the French side of the fandom or South American side of the fandom. Or hell, even the japanese side. If we all spoke the same language, you’d be surprised as how much of the db fandom is online and vocal.

Just thinking the online db fandom is less than 5% is kinda ignorant, no offense.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:18 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote: this could also explain why he trained to get SSG.
He already had SSG long before the ToP. He got it after BoG through training with Whis for 6 months. You need SSG in order to use SSB in the first place (which is why it was originally called SSGSS.)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:23 pm

Kinokima wrote:
HeroR wrote:
The Super manga vs the anime is a very small minority because the fact of the matter is, most fans don't even know the Super manga exists. Not helped that the manga exclusive stuff is almost never marketed, like Super Saiyan Black. Most didn't even know Super Saiyan God Vegeta has been a thing in the manga for years.
The DBS manga is actually a top seller both in Japan and abroad. So not really sure where you are getting "small minority" from.


Also I think people are taking the stickers too literally. I highly doubt only Vegeta will have stamina issues in SSB. It’s probably SSB in general will have stamina issues for both Goku & Vegeta.

Edit: If you look at Cipher’s tweets who I trust more than someone on /a/ no where does it say Goku doesn’t have stamina issues. The absence of it in Goku’s sticker doesn’t mean Goku doesn’t have stamina issues. It’s just the two stickers give different info about the form.

https://twitter.com/cipher_db/status/10 ... 19072?s=21

https://twitter.com/cipher_db/status/10 ... 04576?s=21
Top selling in what way and to comparison to what?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kinokima » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:43 pm

HeroR wrote:
Top selling in what way and to comparison to what?
I am not comparing it to other series obviously it is not in One Piece or MHA leagues but for a manga in V-Jump it’s doing extremely well and every volume has ranked in the Oricon charts top 50 and usually it opens in the top 10 That’s hardly a “minority” when you consider how much manga is released in Japan.

Just look up Dragon Ball Super manga sales. I mean where exactly are you getting minority from.

It technically sells better than the anime although that’s expected of long series.


Editing because I found better data

In 2017 Dragon Ball Super was the no 19th best selling series in Japan https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/to ... 7.1120456/


In the first 1/2 of 2018 Dragon Ball Super Volume 5 ranked No 33 as best selling volume in Japan

https://www.oricon.co.jp/special/51183/6/
Last edited by Kinokima on Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Simere » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:08 pm

Miracles wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Miracles wrote: Broly is obviously going to be stronger than the last opponents Goku and Vegeta faced. So instead of needing extras like SSBE or KK Blue, Toriyama has just plain old red and blue, enough to handle incredible opponents. Making the god forms special.
All those forms stem from God ki. He’s saying that we are getting yet another person casually reaching the realm of God ki without God ki. Basically that level of power is no longer special, which doesn’t help that we’ve reached the cap as according to Toriyama having Zeno being the peak.
I understand but Ki is energy, god powers is a certain level of that energy. That's all it is. It's not surprising opponents would be at such a level.
I'm just saying red and blue is being actually used and focused on for such great opponents, giving them a special place instead of needing something greater.
They are going to need something greater, though.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:32 pm

Its way too late for Toriyama to re-assert the SSG and SSB forms at this point, since both the anime & manga introduced forms and foes far beyond them already. It'll be like Goku all-of-a-sudden going back to relying only on SSJ1 after the Buu saga. It makes no sense.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:33 pm

Simere wrote:
Miracles wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
All those forms stem from God ki. He’s saying that we are getting yet another person casually reaching the realm of God ki without God ki. Basically that level of power is no longer special, which doesn’t help that we’ve reached the cap as according to Toriyama having Zeno being the peak.
I understand but Ki is energy, god powers is a certain level of that energy. That's all it is. It's not surprising opponents would be at such a level.
I'm just saying red and blue is being actually used and focused on for such great opponents, giving them a special place instead of needing something greater.
They are going to need something greater, though.

Yeah, Fusion :D

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