Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[majinwarman]

Usually have to write a few pages to 'justify' this.
But that's what i call putting the hammer down right on the nail where it belongs.

I didn't say it doesn't have problems but they are actively trying to improve it and the proof is this movie with the new character designs.

I meant the same, not every flaw will be erased, but they're really doing what they can to improve.

I don't expect it to be better than the original manga but it is still watchable. The only time I hated Dragon Ball is the Heroes promo anime and that it is because I have never been a fan of shows based on games.

[Mister_Popo]

I didn't say it doesn't have problems but they are actively trying to improve it and the proof is this movie with the new character designs.

I meant the same, not every flaw will be erased, but they're really doing what they can to improve.

I don't expect it to be better than the original manga but it is still watchable. The only time I hated Dragon Ball is the Heroes promo anime and that it is because I have never been a fan of shows based on games.

From the people who have read and seen the complete original manga and anime, i don't think there are a lot who actually think Super surpasses it.
But it's still entertaining and watchable in its own right.

[majinwarman]

I meant the same, not every flaw will be erased, but they're really doing what they can to improve.

I don't expect it to be better than the original manga but it is still watchable. The only time I hated Dragon Ball is the Heroes promo anime and that it is because I have never been a fan of shows based on games.

From the people who have read and seen the complete original manga and anime, i don't think there are a lot who actually think Super surpasses it.
But it's still entertaining and watchable in its own right.

I agree with your statement so much.

[Rakurai]

who wouldn't want to write about timeline crossovers, SSJ4 vs SSB, and cover the Xeno Time Patrol gang, whom frankly I think are way more better and badass than the main cast?

People who prefer tournaments without story and poorly done retellings.

I know this was said in a sort of joking manner but I can't disagree with the fact that Super at its core just has no consistent direction.

You know what happens when you have multiple mangakas rotating chapters on the same manga? You get a story about as congruent as the anime's plot. So that would be a very poor decision.

Funny meme and all, but I did say to have Toriyama do the story.

Nagayama and Toyotaro seem to be pretty good buddies based on Twitter so I don't think they're going to try to one up the other or get in each other's way. Nagayama would most likely allow Toyotaro keep Super and vice versa if it were up to them, they should respect one another as tellers of their continued story for better or for worse. Also consistency is important.

And I don't really consider that a factor. Consistency is only important to me in so far as it preserves something good. There's nothing I would really lose if Toyotaro were replaced.

There's nothing wrong with being in Heroes, and I do not consider it beneath Super; if anything, being on Heroes means you get to express your creativity and be more liberal with the details and characters.

If they did that, it would be great, but they don't. None of the characters are given any meaningful personality differences or new angles in Heroes. They're just bland imitations of the original characters wearing different clothes.

SDBH is an extremely fun manga - who wouldn't want to write about timeline crossovers, SSJ4 vs SSB, and cover the Xeno Time Patrol gang, whom frankly I think are way more better and badass than the main cast?

Because none of those things are presented in an interesting, fun or creative way whatsoever? There's no detail on what they are, where they're from or why they exist, even by Dragon Ball standards, and they have no personality beyond "we have to fight because we're good PLAY THE GAMES PLEASE". Maybe it's just because Dragon Ball in general isn't very well-written, but I almost never want to consume any outside stories for the series unless they have a very special strength over the main series that nothing else is as good at, or else are essential to the plot and characters in some manner. Heroes has none of that. It does everything blander and boring-er than the main Dragon Ball continuity, and it basically barred from interacting with it in any way whatsoever.

I should note that I don't blame Nagayama for this, I'm sure he's doing the best he can. As it happens, his manga is definitely a lot better than the Heroes anime.

Also I don't know if Toriyama is going to coach more than one mangaka at this point. Toyo and Toriyama seem to have a very good working relationship based on past interviews and Toyo's sense of humility, and I'd be surprised if Toriyama didn't have a significant input as to who would be shadow writing his main product. If he likes Toyotaro, then that's who we're going to get. Which I don't mind at all, I think he has been doing a great job overall with the ToP and I have high hopes for him on the Broly saga.

Well I wish I shared your capacity for tolerance there. I personally think it's boring as hell and packed with so much extraneous reaction shots and poor attempts at replicating the anime that there's nothing to enjoy about it. And this was the fucking Tournament of Power! It's not like there wasn't room for improvement!

DBS has had multiple directors for chunks of episodes who have to oversee the storyboard and writing/direction of each episode too. Didn't stop the anime from being heavily inconsistent with character portrayals and dropping plot points. The inconsistency is in the details, and how the writers will portray the strength of characters or move some plot element forward. So having multiple mangakas who might share different views on how the characters should be portrayed won't help with that. Discussing it out while they're supposed to be drawing will also be inefficient as opposed to sticking with a single vision from the start, which is probably impossible to do as they develop the plot. A mangaka like Toyotaro spends ~15-20 hours a day drawing to begin with according to one of his interviews. And not even getting into the business side of things to deeply, but how is the wage for a single manga supposed to sustain multiple mangakas?

You don't consider consistency a factor? That is the basis for any decent story that is being told.

No interesting, fun, or creative way whatsoever? So Demon Gods, timeline patrol, re-emergence of old characters, popular or not, ancient Saiyan territory, all boring and bland? What are your DB standards then? Angels & Gods? Evil Goku? Tournaments just for the hell of it with no real consequences? Reboot Broly and retcon Bardock?

I might see your point if DBS had a stuck to a coherent theme and the sagas weaved together to tackle some greater common issue with their world like the fact that there are two man childs literally ruling over everything which even by DB standards is just straight up asinine and dumb. But they don't do anything like that either, there are no subtle implications or tones that their world is just fucked up, with GoDs destroying planets if they felt like it, reforming their hierarchy system after a Kaioshin just tried to eliminate all sentient life. We're probably never going to see F. Trunks again after he was unnecessarily brought back just because he's popular, no moving into the multiple timeline territory. No exploring the multiverse either. No working towards peace considering they revived the most genocidial maniac in all of Z history again, peace being all they ever wanted in the EoZ. There's literally nothing to work towards except getting stronger (as that is Goku's boring shtick) and constantly contradicting the original manga, and even more importantly the EoZ.

I like Broly and I do look forward to the Broly film. But I would rather much see Cumber than get a reboot of a highly popular character who could also be fleshed out more if Shueisha really felt like doing it and not just tether onto his Kakarot obsession like it's supposed to be his only personality. Toyotaro was taking Broly to good places in his AF manga with that before he abruptly ended it.

[PFM18]

Mentioning of how well Toriyama's outline is going to be adapted, while they've stated that the staff on the film have cut down the script a bit to make it condensable for a 100 minute film, I think this is another good time to speak about how good direction can elevate a source material. In that sense, I think that's still something to have faith in the movie with.

I believe, based on the prior works of the director, and the praise that we've already seen from the direction of the film, that the script will almost definitely have been fantastically adapted.

Saying that, that doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality script itself(though knowing how barebones Toriyama's scripts can be, and considering the staff on the film, It will be well presented though, if a little shallow at points potentially).

I have faith in the movie but I still want to have some reserves about it. I don't want people to just claim that the movie is bad without seeing it.

It may be bad, but regardless it is a foregone conclusion that people will complain about it. No matter how much time and effort they put into it, no matter how compelling the story ends up being, there's plenty of people that will adamantly complain.

[Lukmendes]

Mentioning of how well Toriyama's outline is going to be adapted, while they've stated that the staff on the film have cut down the script a bit to make it condensable for a 100 minute film, I think this is another good time to speak about how good direction can elevate a source material. In that sense, I think that's still something to have faith in the movie with.

I believe, based on the prior works of the director, and the praise that we've already seen from the direction of the film, that the script will almost definitely have been fantastically adapted.

Saying that, that doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality script itself(though knowing how barebones Toriyama's scripts can be, and considering the staff on the film, It will be well presented though, if a little shallow at points potentially).

I have faith in the movie but I still want to have some reserves about it. I don't want people to just claim that the movie is bad without seeing it.

It may be bad, but regardless it is a foregone conclusion that people will complain about it. No matter how much time and effort they put into it, no matter how compelling the story ends up being, there's plenty of people that will adamantly complain.

Funnily enough, the opposite is true as well, even if it's hot garbage there'll be people overpraising it, so regardless of the movie's quality, fan reactions will be amusing at least

[Noah]

Those aren't the 90's design for Goku, that looks like a repurposed 2010, or BOG era design. This a complete design comparison;

Spoiler:

Impressive how the best designs from this pic are from Minoru Maeda.

[Shaddy]

DBS has had multiple directors for chunks of episodes who have to oversee the storyboard and writing/direction of each episode too. Didn't stop the anime from being heavily inconsistent with character portrayals and dropping plot points. The inconsistency is in the details, and how the writers will portray the strength of characters or move some plot element forward. So having multiple mangakas who might share different views on how the characters should be portrayed won't help with that. Discussing it out while they're supposed to be drawing will also be inefficient as opposed to sticking with a single vision from the start, which is probably impossible to do as they develop the plot.

Which, again, is why I said Toriyama should just do the story. Nobody else has to decide on characters' personalities, he would be the writer. Singular. So it wouldn't be any less consistent than Dragon Ball always has been.

As for Super, again, it's not always consistent, but I'd rather have a show that's all over the place than one keeping things steadily mediocre from beginning to end.

A mangaka like Toyotaro spends ~15-20 hours a day drawing to begin with according to one of his interviews. And not even getting into the business side of things to deeply, but how is the wage for a single manga supposed to sustain multiple mangakas?

I'm not saying it's what would make sense or what should happen, just that conceptually speaking I'd like it more than Toyotaro exclusively.

You don't consider consistency a factor? That is the basis for any decent story that is being told.

No it's not. Consistency is only important for sustaining existing quality. If a story moves to something different and is better for it, I applaud it. I mean Yu Yu Hakusho was originally supposed to be more of a monster-of-the-week mystery series, but everyone remembers Toguro and the Dark Tournament way better.

Even if you're talking about consistency of world and continuity, that's never been something Dragon Ball's ever been all that concerned about so long as it doesn't completely break the story. If Toriyama never cared, why should I?

No interesting, fun, or creative way whatsoever? So Demon Gods, timeline patrol, re-emergence of old characters, popular or not, ancient Saiyan territory, all boring and bland?

A lot of this is in direction over writing, but Heroes doesn't make any attempt to do anything with what it's got. If we're going into ancient saiyan territory, or the demon realm, why in like eight years has it done nothing to develop an interesting culture for either of them, personalities for the characters, dynamics or even much motivation for anything that's going on? The idea of things alone does not sustain a story written completely half-assed. Zamasu, even if you dislike his arc like I do, had a story. The ToP, even if it had no idea what it wanted to be, did give it's characters dynamics, especially with Frieza. Jiren, however boring he is, does have a motivation, and the hypocritical nature of his wish is the most interesting thing about him, like more of an anti-hero. All of this is independent from the nature of the scenario they were introduced in.

The closest thing Heroes has to this, best I can tell, is Fu's "because it's fun" approach to messing around with different Gokus and Vegetas and shit. I like it. He's almost a commentary on what Heroes itself is trying to appeal to. He wants to smash those action figures together and calculate their fucking power levels and he'll go to any lengths to do it. But it's not like there's anything interesting done with that, he's just the end goal that they have to overcome before moving on to the next thing. He's the best Heroes has got as far as I can tell -- and he's still not better than most of the villains in the main continuity (eh, Perfect Cell could be a little flat). He could only be supported very heavily by having something cool or unique going on around him -- and a mashed-up bunch of planets designed only for people to fight each other on COULD be that -- but what we get is nothing that couldn't basically have happened anywhere.

What are your DB standards then? Angels & Gods? Evil Goku? Tournaments just for the hell of it with no real consequences? Reboot Broly and retcon Bardock?

I'm not gonna act like I'm totally happy with the premises Super set for each arc, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. They are nothing but premises. Nothing about a series' premise is directly indicative of it's quality. That's why Sword Art Online sucks. Sure, being trapped in a death game of an MMO sounds cool, but when your characters are all unlikable and your show is totally boring, it's meaningless.

I might see your point if DBS had a stuck to a coherent theme and the sagas weaved together to tackle some greater common issue with their world like the fact that there are two man childs literally ruling over everything which even by DB standards is just straight up asinine and dumb.

Besides the fact that no Dragon Ball series has ever had consistent themes in every one of it's arcs, what exactly is dumb about the god-ruler of the universe being a childlike being? Lots of stories have that, and personally I think it'd explain a lot about the real world. I'm pretty sure the shin-jin are born out of fruit. The other gods we've found out about were humanoid slugs and catfish. It's not like Dragon Ball being ridiculous and outlandish is anything but par for the course at this point.

But they don't do anything like that either, there are no subtle implications or tones that their world is just fucked up, with GoDs destroying planets if they felt like it, reforming their hierarchy system after a Kaioshin just tried to eliminate all sentient life.

I think with Zeno and Beerus in particular there most definitely is such a thing. Nobody is happy about the ToP supposedly putting everyone's lives on the line, and many of them clearly are shaken and feel powerless because it was ruled so by the god of all gods. I just watched the dub episode with the various kais desperately trying to figure out if they can reason with Zeno last night. The part about the Destroyers is basically the entire point of the Battle of Gods story, and Beerus threatening to kill Goku after he pushed Zeno to the tournament of power is definitely a shifting dynamic between the two that could actually hit a breaking point. It's not characterized as a dark or edgy thing because that's never been the tone of the story, but it's definitely there and not something that's necessarily good.

We're probably never going to see F. Trunks again after he was unnecessarily brought back just because he's popular, no moving into the multiple timeline territory. No exploring the multiverse either.

And you know this isn't going to happen because...? I think going to other universes totally will happen. I can't say I liked shipping Future Trunks off again at the end of his arc, but it's a never-say-never in terms of this series.

No working towards peace considering they revived the most genocidial maniac in all of Z history again, peace being all they ever wanted in the EoZ. There's literally nothing to work towards except getting stronger (as that is Goku's boring shtick) and constantly contradicting the original manga, and even more importantly the EoZ.

That's not really a problem since I think the End of Z sucks, but I disagree either way, since there's not much in EoZ that's really been contradicted except the amount of time that passed. Besides, working within stringent confined story beats that you can never stray from has always been the antithesis of Toriyama's writing style. As for Freeza, they most definitely would try to stop him, and they seem to be in this movie. It's more than likely Toriyama is setting him up to be the final villain of the series, since according to him Freeza wants to kill Zeno and take his spot.

I like Broly and I do look forward to the Broly film. But I would rather much see Cumber than get a reboot of a highly popular character who could also be fleshed out more if Shueisha really felt like doing it and not just tether onto his Kakarot obsession like it's supposed to be his only personality.

The most I get from Cumber is that ancient saiyans were apparently really boring people. I think the old Broly had more going on with him, and I fuckin' hate that guy. I can't guarantee the movie will make him much better, but he has nowhere to go but up, and I think Toriyama's characterization is easily his second-best strength in writing (the gags are the first, obviously).

Look, I can't tell you how to feel nor are you gonna change me. We obviously have very different values in what makes Dragon Ball enjoyable for us, it's not like I don't want to enjoy things, but I'm only going with what makes sense to me here.

[AnimeNation101]

So i re-read Toyo’s Future Trunks manga arc and i enjoyed it. So i still think the main problem with the T.o.P manga arc is the pacing due to Toyo getting rushed.

That, and the combined fact that the FT arc was my favorite from DBS while the T.o.P was one of the more boring arcs.

[PFM18]

So i re-read Toyo’s Future Trunks manga arc and i enjoyed it. So i still think the main problem with the T.o.P manga arc is the pacing due to Toyo getting rushed.

That, and the combined fact that the FT arc was my favorite from DBS while the T.o.P was one of the more boring arcs.

Really? I thought his Future Trunks was horrible and filled with poor narrative changes from the anime. The ToP is rushed in his iteration but at least he didn't completely ruin the narrative of the arc.

[Miracles]

Mentioning of how well Toriyama's outline is going to be adapted, while they've stated that the staff on the film have cut down the script a bit to make it condensable for a 100 minute film, I think this is another good time to speak about how good direction can elevate a source material. In that sense, I think that's still something to have faith in the movie with.

I believe, based on the prior works of the director, and the praise that we've already seen from the direction of the film, that the script will almost definitely have been fantastically adapted.

Saying that, that doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality script itself(though knowing how barebones Toriyama's scripts can be, and considering the staff on the film, It will be well presented though, if a little shallow at points potentially).

I have faith in the movie but I still want to have some reserves about it. I don't want people to just claim that the movie is bad without seeing it.

No matter how great and epic this movie will be, we are definetely going to end up with people complaining.
That's written in the stars.

There's also the possibility the movie flops.

Even if the movie is good. With fandoms, people complain cause their favorite didn't do X.

[AnimeNation101]

So i re-read Toyo’s Future Trunks manga arc and i enjoyed it. So i still think the main problem with the T.o.P manga arc is the pacing due to Toyo getting rushed.

That, and the combined fact that the FT arc was my favorite from DBS while the T.o.P was one of the more boring arcs.

Really? I thought his Future Trunks was horrible and filled with poor narrative changes from the anime. The ToP is rushed in his iteration but at least he didn't completely ruin the narrative of the arc.

Well, in the T.o.P’s case, the narrative was far more straight forward and actually kinda hard to mess up without completely ignoring Toriyama’s outline.

I like how Shin and Gowasu had much more of a presence in the FT manga than the anime and i also liked Black and Zamasu’s dynamic slightly more. Both had pretty wtf endings but i enjoyed Trunks’s moment of shine in the anime more than the manga. I also enjoyed Vegito in the anime more than the manga. Also, Future Trunks's character was slightly better in the anime. Merged Zamasu in the anime and manga, despite being somewhat differnt, both have an equal value in my heart. I’d rank both the manga and anime for the FT arc as equal.

What did you find wrong with the FT arc?

[Skar]

When is the earliest premiere of the movie? I read something about it being November 14 or 15. I was wondering when we might start seeing spoilers and finding out what happens to Broly at the end !

[PFM18]

What did you find wrong with the FT arc?

....yeah this isn't the thread to get into that lol

When is the earliest premiere of the movie? I read something about it being November 14 or 15. I was wondering when we might start seeing spoilers and finding out what happens to Broly at the end !

I believe the first showing is on November 14th. Somebody supposedly seeing the leaked version of the Nov 14th screening is where the "spoilers" came from.

[BlueBasilisk]

When is the earliest premiere of the movie? I read something about it being November 14 or 15. I was wondering when we might start seeing spoilers and finding out what happens to Broly at the end !

There's a special screening of it on November 14, yeah.

[Chuquita]

I'm so happy they're doing that special screening November 14th. December is usually a mess for me with the holidays so knowing all this movie's spoilers only two weeks from now is wonderful, imo!

I can't wait to have plot points beyond the tiny amount we know to actually discuss! (And maybe movie scenes to do fan art about if there's parts I like.)

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

You people that enjoy reading plot spoilers are fucking crazy! I'm outta here once spoilers start dropping after the premiere in Japan. I installed a Google Chrome extension that lets me block channels and their videos on YouTube so I don't run into any spoiler-y thumbnails and titles (Here's the extension if you're interested). I have prepared for this shit. The lead up to Resurrection 'F' made me learn from my mistakes when browsing the web.

[Chuquita]

I know that, but I love spoilers! Especially when we know so little beyond the setup. I want to know if there's something in this movie for me beyond the possible payoff of "Gokû finally....".

I'm not much of a Brolli fan post Movie 8, I'm tired of Freeza, I'm not a fan of Minus, I'm not a fan of VegeBul. (I do like both Bulma and Vegeta as individuals though.) What else does this film have? I wanna know.

It's all but assured we're getting Gogeta, but is this gonna be Movie 12 no messing around Gogeta or will he be different?

[AnimeNation101]

I’m more of a “look to the future” guy. I figure I’ve already got this movie figured out and there aren’t really anymore surprises so not only am I okay with spoilers; I'm more interested to see the ending of the movie and the repercussions caused by the events of the movie.

And i really need to know what “Goku finally...” means. My money is still on him putting on his Blue gi or remembering his parents.

[CTAkuma]

I’m more of a “look to the future” guy. I figure I’ve already got this movie figured out and there aren’t really anymore surprises so not only am I okay with spoilers; I'm more interested to see the ending of the movie and the repercussions caused by the events of the movie.

And i really need to know what “Goku finally...” means. My money is still on him putting on his Blue gi or remembering his parents.

I doubt its Bardock or Gine talking to him or something like that, otherwise they'd call him Kakarott