Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Jaden]

So is there a reason why Broly's super saiyan form lacks pupils?
I can understand why his legendary super saiyan form lacks pupils, but not why his regular super saiyan form lacks them.
Are we to assume it is some sort of a berserk form? Like a similar form to the one goku took while under cumber's control ( a pupils-less super saiyan 2 )?
And when a saiyan goes berserk (no matter the form they are at) their pupils disappear?

[WittyUsername]

DBS has never been consistent when it comes to strength, but the series has shown that just because a fighter is significantly weaker than another, doesn’t mean they can’t put up a fight for a short period of time. Goku was signciantly weaker than Raditz at the beginning of the Saiyan arc, but he was able to hold Raditz in place so that Piccolo could kill them. Sure, Raditz had just been injured by Gohan, but Goku was arguably in even worse shape than he was. I don’t think any of the things you mentioned is an indication that Zamasu was on par with Goku and Vegeta.

I mean, if he was that much weaker than them it would've been mentioned at least, and maybe we'd see him needing to abuse his immortality more to keep going, y'know, like the manga version, but that isn't the case, he puts up a good fight, and generaly avoids serious injuries, he's weaker than Black but not by a huge margin, or maybe even not even by a big one at all.

They did make a point to mention how much of a pain Zamasu was on the count of his immortality. The implication to me was that he was a threat specifically because he couldn’t be killed, not because he was insanely strong like Black.

[Lukmendes]

DBS has never been consistent when it comes to strength, but the series has shown that just because a fighter is significantly weaker than another, doesn’t mean they can’t put up a fight for a short period of time. Goku was signciantly weaker than Raditz at the beginning of the Saiyan arc, but he was able to hold Raditz in place so that Piccolo could kill them. Sure, Raditz had just been injured by Gohan, but Goku was arguably in even worse shape than he was. I don’t think any of the things you mentioned is an indication that Zamasu was on par with Goku and Vegeta.

I mean, if he was that much weaker than them it would've been mentioned at least, and maybe we'd see him needing to abuse his immortality more to keep going, y'know, like the manga version, but that isn't the case, he puts up a good fight, and generaly avoids serious injuries, he's weaker than Black but not by a huge margin, or maybe even not even by a big one at all.

They did make a point to mention how much of a pain Zamasu was on the count of his immortality. The implication to me was that he was a threat specifically because he couldn’t be killed, not because he was insanely strong like Black.

They did mention that a few times yes, like when Goku got pissed and decided to attack him and Vegeta warned him, and another time when Zamasu got knocked into the ground and mentioned his immortality, but they never said he's only threatening because of the immortality and nothing else, the immortality is dangerous enough for them to try to use Mafuba to seal him, but not to the point it's the only thing that allows him to keep fighting Blue level characters, again, that would at least be specificaly pointed out like in the manga.

[GodVegetto91]

Say wasn’t there supposed to be another promotional ad to be released today guys?

[zarmack]

My memory on the fights is a bit iffy, but I don’t recall Zamasu ever being portrayed as Goku and Vegeta’s equal. He seemed to be a threat primarily because of his immortality, which, in unison with Black’s constantly increasing strength, made for a very fearsome combination. It was still pretty obvious that Black was the brawns of the duo. Besides, if Zamasu was able to reach the level of two well trained Super Saiyan Blues, it would kind of make Black obsolete.

In episode 57 he fought well against both Goku and Trunks, was even able to grab hold of both of them so they couldn't escape from Black's kamehameha, however, he could've been killed in two occasions by Trunks, when he got stabbed and when Trunks used Final Flash.

Episode 61 was mostly Black and Zamasu fighting together, there is that one scene Goku punches Zamasu's head off, but Zamasu clearly let him do it

Episode 63 has Trunks fighting both Black and Zamasu, Trunks managed to fight each one particularly for a bith and in both fights, Black/Zamasu had the advantage at first but Trunks got managed to overwhelm them before being stabbed by Black on when he tried that self destruct, Zamasu also lets Trunks hit him with ki blasts and says that he likes being hit because of his immortality. Later when Goku and Vegeta arrived, Zamasu was getting his ass kicked by Goku this time, there's one moment which Goku knocks him down on the ground and Zamasu gets up like it's nothing and Goku comments on his immortality.

Episode 64 we have Goku punching Zamasu one when he was off guard (He was distracted by Black's power when he uses that scythe), and then they traded punches but we never see what came of it, since a bit after we see Zamasu flying towards Trunks and the others, implying he won, but next we see Goku alongside Vegeta fighting Black's clones, so it's inconclusive.

So basicaly, of the 3 fights we see, just in one of them he really needed immortality to survive and in another one he "needed" it to get back to the fight faster, but he still fought well regardless, so he's near Blue levels, it doesn't exactly make Black obsolete since he's still the stronger one who has more potential too, though it still makes Zamasu's plan weird to want Goku's body if he could get that strong to begin with...

DBS has never been consistent when it comes to strength, but the series has shown that just because a fighter is significantly weaker than another, doesn’t mean they can’t put up a fight for a short period of time. Goku was signciantly weaker than Raditz at the beginning of the Saiyan arc, but he was able to hold Raditz in place so that Piccolo could kill them. Sure, Raditz had just been injured by Gohan, but Goku was arguably in even worse shape than he was. I don’t think any of the things you mentioned is an indication that Zamasu was on par with Goku and Vegeta.

When has a significantly weaker fighter ever been able to put up a good fight against a much stronger one (who isn't handicapped in some way)?

Raditz thrashed Goku and Piccolo for most of their fight like they were nothing, so that example doesn't work. Future Zamasu was shown to flat-out beat up SSB Goku/Vegeta a couple of times. That wouldn't be possible if he wasn't SSB level himself since that had nothing to do with his immortality.

[Son-Kakaroto]

In episode 57 he fought well against both Goku and Trunks, was even able to grab hold of both of them so they couldn't escape from Black's kamehameha, however, he could've been killed in two occasions by Trunks, when he got stabbed and when Trunks used Final Flash.

Episode 61 was mostly Black and Zamasu fighting together, there is that one scene Goku punches Zamasu's head off, but Zamasu clearly let him do it

Episode 63 has Trunks fighting both Black and Zamasu, Trunks managed to fight each one particularly for a bith and in both fights, Black/Zamasu had the advantage at first but Trunks got managed to overwhelm them before being stabbed by Black on when he tried that self destruct, Zamasu also lets Trunks hit him with ki blasts and says that he likes being hit because of his immortality. Later when Goku and Vegeta arrived, Zamasu was getting his ass kicked by Goku this time, there's one moment which Goku knocks him down on the ground and Zamasu gets up like it's nothing and Goku comments on his immortality.

Episode 64 we have Goku punching Zamasu one when he was off guard (He was distracted by Black's power when he uses that scythe), and then they traded punches but we never see what came of it, since a bit after we see Zamasu flying towards Trunks and the others, implying he won, but next we see Goku alongside Vegeta fighting Black's clones, so it's inconclusive.

So basicaly, of the 3 fights we see, just in one of them he really needed immortality to survive and in another one he "needed" it to get back to the fight faster, but he still fought well regardless, so he's near Blue levels, it doesn't exactly make Black obsolete since he's still the stronger one who has more potential too, though it still makes Zamasu's plan weird to want Goku's body if he could get that strong to begin with...

DBS has never been consistent when it comes to strength, but the series has shown that just because a fighter is significantly weaker than another, doesn’t mean they can’t put up a fight for a short period of time. Goku was signciantly weaker than Raditz at the beginning of the Saiyan arc, but he was able to hold Raditz in place so that Piccolo could kill them. Sure, Raditz had just been injured by Gohan, but Goku was arguably in even worse shape than he was. I don’t think any of the things you mentioned is an indication that Zamasu was on par with Goku and Vegeta.

When has a significantly weaker fighter ever been able to put up a good fight against a much stronger one (who isn't handicapped in some way)?

Raditz thrashed Goku and Piccolo for most of their fight like they were nothing, so that example doesn't work. Future Zamasu was shown to flat-out beat up SSB Goku/Vegeta a couple of times. That wouldn't be possible if he wasn't SSB level himself since that had nothing to do with his immortality.

Super does this all time: Um.....
base goku vs berrus
ssj2 truks vs ssj rose black
zamsu vs ssj blue
trunks vs merged zamsu
gohan vs that mutated humanoid thing
goku vs great sayainman
Kuririn v goku
roshi vs goku
ultimate gohan vs ssj2 goku AND ssj blue goku
jiren vs tired base goku and frieza
android 17 vs ssj goku

It's quite common in super's anime that is.

[goku the krump dancer]

Wasnt' there a TV spot or something that was supposed to release today? or am I mistaken?

[zarmack]

DBS has never been consistent when it comes to strength, but the series has shown that just because a fighter is significantly weaker than another, doesn’t mean they can’t put up a fight for a short period of time. Goku was signciantly weaker than Raditz at the beginning of the Saiyan arc, but he was able to hold Raditz in place so that Piccolo could kill them. Sure, Raditz had just been injured by Gohan, but Goku was arguably in even worse shape than he was. I don’t think any of the things you mentioned is an indication that Zamasu was on par with Goku and Vegeta.

When has a significantly weaker fighter ever been able to put up a good fight against a much stronger one (who isn't handicapped in some way)?

Raditz thrashed Goku and Piccolo for most of their fight like they were nothing, so that example doesn't work. Future Zamasu was shown to flat-out beat up SSB Goku/Vegeta a couple of times. That wouldn't be possible if he wasn't SSB level himself since that had nothing to do with his immortality.

Super does this all time: Um.....
base goku vs berrus
ssj2 truks vs ssj rose black
zamsu vs ssj blue
trunks vs merged zamsu
gohan vs that mutated humanoid thing
goku vs great sayainman
Kuririn v goku
roshi vs goku
ultimate gohan vs ssj2 goku AND ssj blue goku
jiren vs tired base goku and frieza
android 17 vs ssj goku

It's quite common in super's anime that is.

1. Beerus was holding back.
2. Rose Black was toying with SSJ2 Trunks in their 1st fight with Goku.
3. Nothing in the anime suggest Future Zamasu isn't SSB level.
4. Future Trunks' power was boosted by the Spirit Sword.
5. What "mutated humanoid thing"?
6-8. Goku was holding back.
9. Ultimate Gohan and SSB Goku where confirmed equal by the narrator, and both were gradually powering up as the fight went on.
10. Jiren was wounded and fatigued from his fight with MUI Goku and lost most of his power.
11. 17 was holding back and forced Goku into SSB.

[Son-Kakaroto]

When has a significantly weaker fighter ever been able to put up a good fight against a much stronger one (who isn't handicapped in some way)?

Raditz thrashed Goku and Piccolo for most of their fight like they were nothing, so that example doesn't work. Future Zamasu was shown to flat-out beat up SSB Goku/Vegeta a couple of times. That wouldn't be possible if he wasn't SSB level himself since that had nothing to do with his immortality.

Super does this all time: Um.....
base goku vs berrus
ssj2 truks vs ssj rose black
zamsu vs ssj blue
trunks vs merged zamsu
gohan vs that mutated humanoid thing
goku vs great sayainman
Kuririn v goku
roshi vs goku
ultimate gohan vs ssj2 goku AND ssj blue goku
jiren vs tired base goku and frieza
android 17 vs ssj goku

It's quite common in super's anime that is.

1. Beerus was holding back.
2. Rose Black was toying with SSJ2 Trunks in their 1st fight with Goku.
3. Nothing in the anime suggest Future Zamasu isn't SSB level.
4. Future Trunks' power was boosted by the Spirit Sword.
5. What "mutated humanoid thing"?
6-8. Goku was holding back.
9. Ultimate Gohan and SSB Goku where confirmed equal by the narrator, and both were gradually powering up as the fight went on.
10. Jiren was wounded and fatigued from his fight with MUI Goku and lost most of his power.
11. 17 was holding back and forced Goku into SSB.

Good old "holding back" remark. Alright bud. My point still stands.

[zarmack]

Super does this all time: Um.....
base goku vs berrus
ssj2 truks vs ssj rose black
zamsu vs ssj blue
trunks vs merged zamsu
gohan vs that mutated humanoid thing
goku vs great sayainman
Kuririn v goku
roshi vs goku
ultimate gohan vs ssj2 goku AND ssj blue goku
jiren vs tired base goku and frieza
android 17 vs ssj goku

It's quite common in super's anime that is.

1. Beerus was holding back.
2. Rose Black was toying with SSJ2 Trunks in their 1st fight with Goku.
3. Nothing in the anime suggest Future Zamasu isn't SSB level.
4. Future Trunks' power was boosted by the Spirit Sword.
5. What "mutated humanoid thing"?
6-8. Goku was holding back.
9. Ultimate Gohan and SSB Goku where confirmed equal by the narrator, and both were gradually powering up as the fight went on.
10. Jiren was wounded and fatigued from his fight with MUI Goku and lost most of his power.
11. 17 was holding back and forced Goku into SSB.

Good old "holding back" remark. Alright bud. My point still stands.

Do you have any evidence that they weren't, especially when its outright stated in the show itself that they are?

[GodVegetto91]

Wasnt' there a TV spot or something that was supposed to release today? or am I mistaken?

Nope. They showed the old one.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GovetaXV/sta ... 3233080320

Dick move.

[CTAkuma]

Do you have any evidence that they weren't, especially when its outright stated in the show itself that they are?

No he doesn't, also its stated several times by Goku and others that he doesn't go all out from the beginning and holds back to have a better fight, Why this seems to be a foreign concept to some still mistifies me

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

For a Blu-Ray DVD release I think we have to wait until May for that ?

[RedHeat]

For a Blu-Ray DVD release I think we have to wait until May for that ?

For the subbed version, yeah. Maybe around Nov-Dec or next year for dubbed.

[WittyUsername]

I mean, if he was that much weaker than them it would've been mentioned at least, and maybe we'd see him needing to abuse his immortality more to keep going, y'know, like the manga version, but that isn't the case, he puts up a good fight, and generaly avoids serious injuries, he's weaker than Black but not by a huge margin, or maybe even not even by a big one at all.

They did make a point to mention how much of a pain Zamasu was on the count of his immortality. The implication to me was that he was a threat specifically because he couldn’t be killed, not because he was insanely strong like Black.

They did mention that a few times yes, like when Goku got pissed and decided to attack him and Vegeta warned him, and another time when Zamasu got knocked into the ground and mentioned his immortality, but they never said he's only threatening because of the immortality and nothing else, the immortality is dangerous enough for them to try to use Mafuba to seal him, but not to the point it's the only thing that allows him to keep fighting Blue level characters, again, that would at least be specificaly pointed out like in the manga.

Why would they need to specifically say that he’s a weakling who’s only threatening because of his immortality? The implication was that his immortality alongside Black’s strength was what made them such a threat.

[WittyUsername]

In episode 57 he fought well against both Goku and Trunks, was even able to grab hold of both of them so they couldn't escape from Black's kamehameha, however, he could've been killed in two occasions by Trunks, when he got stabbed and when Trunks used Final Flash.

Episode 61 was mostly Black and Zamasu fighting together, there is that one scene Goku punches Zamasu's head off, but Zamasu clearly let him do it

Episode 63 has Trunks fighting both Black and Zamasu, Trunks managed to fight each one particularly for a bith and in both fights, Black/Zamasu had the advantage at first but Trunks got managed to overwhelm them before being stabbed by Black on when he tried that self destruct, Zamasu also lets Trunks hit him with ki blasts and says that he likes being hit because of his immortality. Later when Goku and Vegeta arrived, Zamasu was getting his ass kicked by Goku this time, there's one moment which Goku knocks him down on the ground and Zamasu gets up like it's nothing and Goku comments on his immortality.

Episode 64 we have Goku punching Zamasu one when he was off guard (He was distracted by Black's power when he uses that scythe), and then they traded punches but we never see what came of it, since a bit after we see Zamasu flying towards Trunks and the others, implying he won, but next we see Goku alongside Vegeta fighting Black's clones, so it's inconclusive.

So basicaly, of the 3 fights we see, just in one of them he really needed immortality to survive and in another one he "needed" it to get back to the fight faster, but he still fought well regardless, so he's near Blue levels, it doesn't exactly make Black obsolete since he's still the stronger one who has more potential too, though it still makes Zamasu's plan weird to want Goku's body if he could get that strong to begin with...

DBS has never been consistent when it comes to strength, but the series has shown that just because a fighter is significantly weaker than another, doesn’t mean they can’t put up a fight for a short period of time. Goku was signciantly weaker than Raditz at the beginning of the Saiyan arc, but he was able to hold Raditz in place so that Piccolo could kill them. Sure, Raditz had just been injured by Gohan, but Goku was arguably in even worse shape than he was. I don’t think any of the things you mentioned is an indication that Zamasu was on par with Goku and Vegeta.

When has a significantly weaker fighter ever been able to put up a good fight against a much stronger one (who isn't handicapped in some way)?

Raditz thrashed Goku and Piccolo for most of their fight like they were nothing, so that example doesn't work. Future Zamasu was shown to flat-out beat up SSB Goku/Vegeta a couple of times. That wouldn't be possible if he wasn't SSB level himself since that had nothing to do with his immortality.

Didn’t Kale shrug off a Kamehameha from Super Saiyan Blue Goku, only to later get overwhelmed by Goku as a Super Saiyan God? Apart from that, there was also Roshi’s performance in the Tournament of Power, where he was able to defeat people who were explicitly stated to be stronger than him.

Also, when was Zamasu shown to be able to thrash around Goku and Vegeta like they were nothing? For that matter, the reason I brought up Raditz was because the other poster suggested that Zamasu holding Goku in place was an indication that he must’ve been on par with him. I fail to see how my example doesn’t work as a counterpoint against that.

[Lukmendes]

Why would they need to specifically say that he’s a weakling who’s only threatening because of his immortality? The implication was that his immortality alongside Black’s strength was what made them such a threat.

We're talking about the same series that says the most obvious shit like "He started talking!" or "It's Kamehameha!", so making an extra line saying that Zamasu is weak who can only keep up because of his immortality and nothing else would've been said, again, like it was done in the manga. And of course Zamasu's immortality is a big reason he's threatening, no one's denying that, but it's not the only thing since his power level was that big too, pretending that isn't the case is weird.

Didn’t Kale shrug off a Kamehameha from Super Saiyan Blue Goku, only to later get overwhelmed by Goku as a Super Saiyan God?

Goku was doing the classic holding back while in Blue form in that moment, since he says he was gonna use just a bit more power and he wasn't really impressed when Jiren crushed Kale, it's really dumb but that's how Toei does...

For that matter, the reason I brought up Raditz was because the other poster suggested that Zamasu holding Goku in place was an indication that he must’ve been on par with him. I fail to see how my example doesn’t work as a counterpoint against that.

Your counterpoint fails because Raditz was weakened during that, which he points out:

https://i.imgur.com/oiJRobe.png

And Zamasu was in top condition while he grabbed Goku and Trunks, and that scene isn't even an isolated case of Zamasu showing his power, he consistently was putting good fights against Goku and Trunks while not needing his immortality that much.

[WittyUsername]

[
Your counterpoint fails because Raditz was weakened during that, which he points out:

https://i.imgur.com/oiJRobe.png

And Zamasu was in top condition while he grabbed Goku and Trunks, and that scene isn't even an isolated case of Zamasu showing his power, he consistently was putting good fights against Goku and Trunks while not needing his immortality that much.

So Goku wasn’t also weakened when he held back Raditz? Raditz was just about to kill him before Gohan intervened. He was in even worse shape than Raditz was.

[Lukmendes]

So Goku wasn’t also weakened when he held back Raditz? Raditz was just about to kill him before Gohan intervened. He was in even worse shape than Raditz was.

Of course Goku was weakened too, but Gohan's bullshit headbutt magicaly crippled Raditz to the point Goku managed to hold him off, in the previous page Raditz shows surprise that Goku still has power too.

But even if we dismiss Zamasu managing to hold both Goku and Trunks as evidence, we still have the rest of episode 57, and episode 63 showing that he was around Blue levels with how well he fought alone, but him starting to lose to Goku later on shows that he's still below them, but not that much, so yeah.

This discussion is really repetitive, and I grow bored of repetition, so if you're not bringing new points I'll be dropping it.

[WittyUsername]

So Goku wasn’t also weakened when he held back Raditz? Raditz was just about to kill him before Gohan intervened. He was in even worse shape than Raditz was.

Of course Goku was weakened too, but Gohan's bullshit headbutt magicaly crippled Raditz to the point Goku managed to hold him off, in the previous page Raditz shows surprise that Goku still has power too.

But even if we dismiss Zamasu managing to hold both Goku and Trunks as evidence, we still have the rest of episode 57, and episode 63 showing that he was around Blue levels with how well he fought alone, but him starting to lose to Goku later on shows that he's still below them, but not that much, so yeah.

This discussion is really repetitive, and I grow bored of repetition, so if you're not bringing new points I'll be dropping it.

In all honesty, what more is there to bring up? This discussion never had much in the way of substance to begin with. Frankly, power level debates pretty much never offer anything of value. I pretty much only take part in them occasionally out of habit, which is something I’m trying to grow out of. In any case, I’m done here.