Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Broli Broly » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:53 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Broli Broly wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:I wish I could get some evidence to support my view that the Ikari form is not necessary to achieve Super Saiyan C Type/Super Saiyan Type C.
You Can't, buddy! I would say that Ikari is the "core" and the preliminary stage of SS C Type and Full Power SSJ. In Ikari we can clearly see Broly' seize growing gradually, and also that "green" aura of him started to emit from him after entering Ikari mode. This means that the capacity to "use Oozaru power in Human form" is what makes Broly a "mutant" among Saiyans as king Vegeta described him.
No his unique forms and amplified Saiyan abilities are what make him a mutant. Also if it were necessary to have Ikari to reach SS C Type then Kale would have had it too, regardless of the evolutionary paths both universes took.
You said it yourself: his "unique" forms are what make him a "mutant" among Saiyans, and Ikari is one of these "unique" forms! You don't probably know this, but when FP SS Broly was about to get hit by Gogeta's Kamehameha, his pupils appeared, and they were "GOLDEN" .. the same as in Ikari. This makes it obvious that SS, and FP SS are based on Ikari.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:06 pm

Broli Broly wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Broli Broly wrote: You Can't, buddy! I would say that Ikari is the "core" and the preliminary stage of SS C Type and Full Power SSJ. In Ikari we can clearly see Broly' seize growing gradually, and also that "green" aura of him started to emit from him after entering Ikari mode. This means that the capacity to "use Oozaru power in Human form" is what makes Broly a "mutant" among Saiyans as king Vegeta described him.
No his unique forms and amplified Saiyan abilities are what make him a mutant. Also if it were necessary to have Ikari to reach SS C Type then Kale would have had it too, regardless of the evolutionary paths both universes took.
You said it yourself: his "unique" forms are what make him a "mutant" among Saiyans, and Ikari is one of these "unique" forms! You don't probably know this, but when FP SS Broly was about to get hit by Gogeta's Kamehameha, his pupils appeared, and they were "GOLDEN" .. the same as in Ikari. This makes it obvious that SS, and FP SS are based on Ikari.
I disagree with you on that last one. I don't think the Ikari is related to Broly's Super Saiyan forms. Especially since Kale doesn't have an Ikari form.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:12 pm

So what? Kale is not 100% same as Broly.

Broly was growing at a ludacris rate during the fight. He went from < base vegeta to forcing vegeta to go god in a matter of minutes. Kale never showed that kind of improvement in her ssj or ssj2 state let alone base form. Wrathful is unique to Broly , like everyone said "different evolutions". Thats not even counting the fact that broly and kale's ssj forms are the opposite. Broly has golden hair with green aura and Kale had light green hair with golden aura

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:15 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:So what? Kale is not 100% same as Broly.

Broly was growing at a ludacris rate during the fight. He went from < base vegeta to forcing vegeta to go god in a matter of minutes. Kale never showed that kind of improvement in her ssj or ssj2 state let alone base form. Wrathful is unique to Broly , like everyone said "different evolutions". Thats not even counting the fact that broly and kale's ssj forms are the opposite. Broly has golden hair with green aura and Kale had light green hair with golden aura
True but that doesn't mean that Ikari is related to the Super Saiyan C Type either. They may be stacked together, but whether they are actually related is another matter entirely and is debatable.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by OmegaRockman » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:22 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 8586284032

Omega, did you notice a parallel between Broly and Gohan like Cipher did?
I didn't think of that when I was watching, but his reading actually makes a ton of sense! Then again...
So I can see what Cipher is getting at. He's an incredibly smart guy with super interesting takes!
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:32 pm

OmegaRockman wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 8586284032

Omega, did you notice a parallel between Broly and Gohan like Cipher did?
I didn't think of that when I was watching, but his reading actually makes a ton of sense! Then again...
So I can see what Cipher is getting at. He's an incredibly smart guy with super interesting takes!
That is an interesting take.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:59 pm

So, this might seem like a dumb question, but how does this compare to the original Broly movie?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by OmegaRockman » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:08 pm

WittyUsername wrote:So, this might seem like a dumb question, but how does this compare to the original Broly movie?
For a general, non-spoiler description, he has more personality and is way more sympathetic. I genuinely feel that Toriyama gave him some actual depth, a lot of which comes from how he interacts with Paragas, Cheelye, and Lemo. I elaborated a little more on that in some of my previous posts (some of which are spoiler-tagged).
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Sora Saiyan » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:36 pm

Hulk10 wrote:True but that doesn't mean that Ikari is related to the Super Saiyan C Type either. They may be stacked together, but whether they are actually related is another matter entirely and is debatable.
Right, I see what you’re saying now. I’m in the same camp. The form Broly achieves is just SSJ, and because he’s in his Ikari form it stacks. If Broly were to try to become a regular looking SSJ I believe he would be able to.
I see Ikari as a sort of base form which can stack with his SSJ trasformation. So Ikari is like a second base. Basically base humanoid Oozaru.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:12 pm

OmegaRockman wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:So, this might seem like a dumb question, but how does this compare to the original Broly movie?
For a general, non-spoiler description, he has more personality and is way more sympathetic. I genuinely feel that Toriyama gave him some actual depth, a lot of which comes from how he interacts with Paragas, Cheelye, and Lemo. I elaborated a little more on that in some of my previous posts (some of which are spoiler-tagged).
In all honesty, I feel like people kind of exaggerate just how little personality Broly had in the original film. He wasn’t exactly a deep villain, but by the standards of Toei movie villains, he was certainly more complex than characters like Tullece or #13. He did at the very least have a tragic backstory, even if his reason for hating Goku was really contrived, and I do think he had a good dynamic with Paragus. I’m not saying that I’m a Broly fan, but I get the impression that the way the character was handled in the later movies and in the video games are what negatively impacted people’s opinions on the character. He wasn’t great, but he was far from being the worst character Toei created.

Still, I’m all for reimagining Broly as a more sympathetic character.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:42 pm

OmegaRockman wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:So, this might seem like a dumb question, but how does this compare to the original Broly movie?
For a general, non-spoiler description, he has more personality and is way more sympathetic. I genuinely feel that Toriyama gave him some actual depth, a lot of which comes from how he interacts with Paragas, Cheelye, and Lemo. I elaborated a little more on that in some of my previous posts (some of which are spoiler-tagged).
I hate how people say that when it is flat out not true bar the sympathetic thing. Everything character writing focus he had in the LSSJ character-wise was shifted to his base form and replaced by other characteristics. When he had 20 personality points before he basically still has 20 points now just that they are placed differently in a different form. Toriyama-san did not give him 50 personality points now. He does not have more personality writing than before. The focus was just changed from "most showing of what a person he is/can be as LSSJ to base instead". And his LSSJ form really now is just the caricature character-wise that people wrongly remember him for. So we sympathize a bit more with him because he does not like fighting and carries his dog friends' ear around him while being electrocuted to being calmed. The old Broly was already a totally poor bastard. He already had a rough life. He already was almost killed. He already had to be taken care of by his father as well as did Paragus regulate the power. I just talked with a guy about his character as a LSSJ and showed a single scene in the first Broly movie and he could immediately see what I was talking about. I hope Toei fixes this. It would only take a few scenes of Broly in the anime like him enjoying things a bit too much when he is transformed or something like that.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:04 pm

Sora Saiyan wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:True but that doesn't mean that Ikari is related to the Super Saiyan C Type either. They may be stacked together, but whether they are actually related is another matter entirely and is debatable.
Right, I see what you’re saying now. I’m in the same camp. The form Broly achieves is just SSJ, and because he’s in his Ikari form it stacks. If Broly were to try to become a regular looking SSJ I believe he would be able to.
I see Ikari as a sort of base form which can stack with his SSJ trasformation. So Ikari is like a second base. Basically base humanoid Oozaru.
Thank you and yeah that is what I'm saying. Nice to be on the same page in that regard.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dark_Tzitzimine » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:43 pm

Can anyone translate what it says here about Ikari form?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:11 pm

Arg wrote:Is there any explanation within the movie why/how Vegeta got God(red)?
It outright states in Resurrection Freeza arc...

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rakurai » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:01 pm

Dark_Tzitzimine wrote:Can anyone translate what it says here about Ikari form?
"A state that unleashes the power of a Great Ape instead of becoming one, in exchange for losing control of one's self."

Don't think it's anything new that wasn't covered in the film already.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dark_Tzitzimine » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:16 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Dark_Tzitzimine wrote:Can anyone translate what it says here about Ikari form?
"A state that unleashes the power of a Great Ape instead of becoming one. Does not lose control of self."

Don't think it's anything new that wasn't covered in the film already.
Hmmm, curious.

Didn't Paragus state on the film that Broly was uncontrollable in that form?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Noah » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:45 pm

You know, battle power wise the concept of becoming strong as a Oozaru in the base form is quite stupid considering it's only a 10x increase, but it's quite interesting and reminds Super Saiyan 4.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:49 pm

Noah wrote:You know, battle power wise the concept of becoming strong as a Oozaru in the base form is quite stupid considering it's only a 10x increase, but it's quite interesting and reminds Super Saiyan 4.
Considering the yellow eyes, it’s most likely a callback to SSJ4.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Zelvin » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:27 pm

Actually I don't figure Ikari is that bad. It's all the benefits of the Oozaru power increase without the negatives. You're not becoming a giant target nor suffer any kind of speed loss from the size increase, and it's much more controllable. It's far less taxing than Super Saiyan while not as powerful, but just as good as a 10xKK without any drawbacks.

Suggesting the eyes are a callback to SS4, I can't really agree. Goku's and Vegeta's were both different colors, and Goku had pupils in SS3. So it's not really a callback. Could suggest it is, but I'd only say it was a callback if Broly kept his tail.
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