Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Hulk10]

I'd say the new Broly is an expressive character. But he is rather subdued.

Yep I'd agree. They did a good job showing more visual story telling for him to make up for his more subdued speech. I like that very brief flashback Broly has when he and Paragus first meet Frieza. Where he remembers being an Ozaaru looking out at the moon(I believe) on vampa. Thought it was a real cool scene.


Now to another thing. these old vs new arguments are getting redundant. Old Broly isn't nearly as bad as he's portrayed by the fandom in movie 8, but he sure as hell isn't the pinnacle of writing. New Broly isn't just the most deeply fascinating character in comparison either

I think both Broly are just about as complex, but I think the new one was executed better overall.

I mean either way these are dragon ball characters so its not like they are going to win any awards.

True that.

[HeartMachine3578]

Alright so that light novel that was supposed to come out same day as the movie...whats up with that? I haven't seen anyone mention picking up.

[vashter]

There is a website has cam verison for almost full movie and cam was pretty upclose covering entire scene bu tholy shit that gogtea scene.

[TheRed259]

So what do you guys think about Vegeta’s hair going a noticeable dark green during his transformation and Goku seemingly briefly tapping into UI during his transformation to Blue from red?

Unnecessary and not visually appealing.

[mute_proxy]

So what do you guys think about Vegeta’s hair going a noticeable dark green during his transformation and Goku seemingly briefly tapping into UI during his transformation to Blue from red?

Considering Goku went from SSGod (which has pupils) to Blue, it could be just a fun visual trick and not necessarily related to UI. A lot of transformations in this movie seem to go with unusual visual tricks (I liked how Goku went from SS1 to God), I read that the animators wanted to do something more interesting with the transformations also. Vegeta's hair went from black to yellow, so I guess some green in between does make some sense

[Terez]

Alright so that light novel that was supposed to come out same day as the movie...whats up with that? I haven't seen anyone mention picking up.

It's just an adaptation of the script. The dialogue is pretty much exactly the same.

My thoughts: this movie is at least 9/10 for me. I don't have a lot of nostalgia for the old school Z movies aside from 12-13 (my first bootleg); I just rewatched them recently when the remasters came out and it was a good reminder of how shallow and repetitive they all were. Even M1 and M13 which people praise for having good stories were shallow. There's only so much you can do in 100 minutes so I feel like it was unreasonable to expect a complex plot from this movie. In my view, BOG is the only Z movie that might have a better story, and Broly blows it out of the water in every other respect.

I had no issues with the historical portion of the movie; I've seen a lot of people saying they felt like it was rushed or pointless but I never got that impression at all. The pacing was perfect to me; it was just a drumbeat leading up to a fantastic brawl. They showed how our three survivors managed to survive, and Freeza is the throughline connecting everything to the present. I didn't feel the need for Bardock's story to be fleshed out more; this movie isn't about him. I wouldn't have minded more with Broly but I don't think they skipped anything essential.

New Broly is amazing and adorable and easily best boi material; I love everything about him. I think it's a massive oversimplification to say that he became old Broly when he was berserking; he still has nuanced emotions and they're quite different from old Broly. With old Broly, the nuance was arrogance and cruelty; with new Broly, it's uncertainty, anguish, and fear. Needless to say I prefer the latter by a mile. Cheelye and Lemo were excellent companion characters for him; they just met him but they are the ones who understand him best, and their minimal sideline commentary helps to contextualize his character during the fight.

The fight was IMO a perfect build; I love how Blue was de-nerfed and made to seem important again. Thanks to Goku cutting in on his dance, Vegeta didn't even use it until he rejoined the fight right before the fusion scene, so Goku is the first one to show it off and it's great. The humor in the fusion scene was top notch (I will never get tired of Kakavege handholding gags) and Tate really did it justice. I loved the way the score changed when it cut back and forth between the fusion scenes and Freeza vs. Broly, and Freeza's personality during the fight was really just delightful; he was angry, proud, overwhelmed and even appreciative of Broly's subarashii power. And Whis...Whis was like a kid in a candy store. He was having so much fun, I felt like he was there to represent the fans.

And Gogeta, my god. I love him so much. His appearance is really inconsistent but I actually appreciate that; they put all of their big dogs on him—Tate, Shida, Kubota, Hayashi, Umakoshi, Watanabe?, and finally Tsuji in the credits—and each one had a unique interpretation of him that didn't get corrected away, and that's a good thing because I love them all. Umakoshi's crazy interpretation weirded me out at first, but it grew on me so hard. And that Tsuji scene in the credits where Gogeta flashes his boobs is the best. thing. ever. The fanart is flowing and omg I love it.

People have also complained that Gogeta vs Broly is one-sided but I love this too. They're always struggling and stretching logic to make fights evenly-matched and it gets really old after a while; it was nice to see a proper beat-down for once, especially since it came as a final trump card after a genuine struggle. Gogeta's cocky confidence and Broly's increasingly harried emotions really sell it for me.

Also holy shit, the score is phenomenally Wagnerian. I have always loved Sumitomo—some of his best work dates back to Kai, though I think it was used to better advantage in Super—but he knocked it out of the fucking park in this movie. His talent for musical structure is miles beyond any other DB composer, and in this film it shows like never before. If DBS:Broly is a space opera, it's because Sumi made it so, and I wish so much I could thank him directly.

Such a fun ride. I will rewatch this one so many times. It's sad to see so many people down on it but I hope that's a case of the hard core of the fandom having unrealistic expectations and old prejudices and that the wider audience will drown them out because this movie deserves appreciation. The reception on Japanese twitter has been overwhelmingly positive so I'll take that as a good sign. I haven't seen many negative comments from the Japanese fans I follow (mostly but not entirely fanartists).

Negatives:

1. The chronology shit bugs me. Supposedly the movie starts 41 years in the past, but that doesn't add up at all. You can see the counter continuing to scroll past 774 before it fades, but even if 774 was the last year shown, it doesn't add up with the established date(s) for the destruction of Planet Vegeta because the movie starts 5 years before that.

2. The teaser stuff was a bit shoehorned IMO. No one really expected the teaser footage to actually be in the movie, so maybe that influenced me, but I always felt like it was some truly weird character-acting for Goku, and it has some of my least favorite Onishi art. It also didn't help that it was the scene where the hype man was introduced, and Kakarot vs Broly is not as compelling as Broly vs Gogeta, either.

3. The hype man. I don't mind the rhythmic chanting; that goes with the music well enough. I just don't like the dude calling out names and moves. It's weird and out of place.

4. I'm sad that this didn't make the cut. I don't really share others' concerns about cutting overall; I don't feel like the movie was "disjointed" as some have said, or that we're missing masses of important context, but I still wouldn't mind seeing an extended home release to get the stuff that was cut.

None of these things are enough to drop my rating below 9/10; the positives massively outweigh the negatives.

[Kinokima]

The point is that in a story centered on fighting, actually becoming a better fighter is the primary vehicle of progression and change. Fusion does not make them better fighters. UI would.

The way power ups are treated in Modern DB is also just an ace up their sleeve . They just suddenly happen when the characters are having a difficult time . It’s not progression in character and story to suddenly get a new one or for Goku to master another one suddenly. If you are talking about being better fighters. Then power ups should come when the characters learn something or overcome flaws. That would be true progression and would move the story forward.


Anyways it’s a guarantee that Goku will eventually master UI but the only way that will progress the story is there will be stronger enemies to face and probably new power ups. And the formula continues.


And yes they could of done something completely unexpected too like some twist but that wouldn’t have necessarily made it good just unexpected.


And note I do enjoy Gogeta but acknowledge he is fanservice but it’s just he is most certainly not the only thing in this movie that is!

[HeartMachine3578]

Alright so that light novel that was supposed to come out same day as the movie...whats up with that? I haven't seen anyone mention picking up.

It's just an adaptation of the script. The dialogue is pretty much exactly the same.

My thoughts: this movie is at least 9/10 for me. I don't have a lot of nostalgia for the old school Z movies aside from 12-13 (my first bootleg); I just rewatched them recently when the remasters came out and it was a good reminder of how shallow and repetitive they all were. Even M1 and M13 which people praise for having good stories were shallow. There's only so much you can do in 100 minutes so I feel like it was unreasonable to expect a complex plot from this movie. In my view, BOG is the only Z movie that might have a better story, and Broly blows it out of the water in every other respect.

I had no issues with the historical portion of the movie; I've seen a lot of people saying they felt like it was rushed or pointless but I never got that impression at all. The pacing was perfect to me; it was just a drumbeat leading up to a fantastic brawl. They showed how our three survivors managed to survive, and Freeza is the throughline connecting everything to the present. I didn't feel the need for Bardock's story to be fleshed out more; this movie isn't about him. I wouldn't have minded more with Broly but I don't think they skipped anything essential.

New Broly is amazing and adorable and easily best boi material; I love everything about him. I think it's a massive oversimplification to say that he became old Broly when he was berserking; he still has nuanced emotions and they're quite different from old Broly. With old Broly, the nuance was arrogance and cruelty; with new Broly, it's uncertainty, anguish, and fear. Needless to say I prefer the latter by a mile. Cheelye and Lemo were excellent companion characters for him; they just met him but they are the ones who understand him best, and their minimal sideline commentary helps to contextualize his character during the fight.

The fight was IMO a perfect build; I love how Blue was de-nerfed and made to seem important again. Thanks to Goku cutting in on his dance, Vegeta didn't even use it until he rejoined the fight right before the fusion scene, so Goku is the first one to show it off and it's great. The humor in the fusion scene was top notch (I will never get tired of Kakavege handholding gags) and Tate really did it justice. I loved the way the score changed when it cut back and forth between the fusion scenes and Freeza vs. Broly, and Freeza's personality during the fight was really just delightful; he was angry, proud, overwhelmed and even appreciative of Broly's subarashii power. And Whis...Whis was like a kid in a candy store. He was having so much fun, I felt like he was there to represent the fans.

And Gogeta, my god. I love him so much. His appearance is really inconsistent but I actually appreciate that; they put all of their big dogs on him—Tate, Shida, Kubota, Hayashi, Umakoshi, Watanabe?, and finally Tsuji in the credits—and each one had a unique interpretation of him that didn't get corrected away, and that's a good thing because I love them all. Umakoshi's crazy interpretation weirded me out at first, but it grew on me so hard. And that Tsuji scene in the credits where Gogeta flashes his boobs is the best. thing. ever. The fanart is flowing and omg I love it.

People have also complained that Gogeta vs Broly is one-sided but I love this too. They're always struggling and stretching logic to make fights evenly-matched and it gets really old after a while; it was nice to see a proper beat-down for once, especially since it came as a final trump card after a genuine struggle. Gogeta's cocky confidence and Broly's increasingly harried emotions really sell it for me.

Also holy shit, the score is phenomenally Wagnerian. I have always loved Sumitomo—some of his best work dates back to Kai, though I think it was used to better advantage in Super—but he knocked it out of the fucking park in this movie. His talent for musical structure is miles beyond any other DB composer, and in this film it shows like never before. If DBS:Broly is a space opera, it's because Sumi made it so, and I wish so much I could thank him directly.

Such a fun ride. I will rewatch this one so many times. It's sad to see so many people down on it but I hope that's a case of the hard core of the fandom having unrealistic expectations and old prejudices and that the wider audience will drown them out because this movie deserves appreciation. The reception on Japanese twitter has been overwhelmingly positive so I'll take that as a good sign. I haven't seen many negative comments from the Japanese fans I follow (mostly but not entirely fanartists).

Negatives:

1. The chronology shit bugs me. Supposedly the movie starts 41 years in the past, but that doesn't add up at all. You can see the counter continuing to scroll past 774 before it fades, but even if 774 was the last year shown, it doesn't add up with the established date(s) for the destruction of Planet Vegeta because the movie starts 5 years before that.

2. The teaser stuff was a bit shoehorned IMO. No one really expected the teaser footage to actually be in the movie, so maybe that influenced me, but I always felt like it was some truly weird character-acting for Goku, and it has some of my least favorite Onishi art. It also didn't help that it was the scene where the hype man was introduced, and Kakarot vs Broly is not as compelling as Broly vs Gogeta, either.

3. The hype man. I don't mind the rhythmic chanting; that goes with the music well enough. I just don't like the dude calling out names and moves. It's weird and out of place.

4. I'm sad that this didn't make the cut. I don't really share others' concerns about cutting overall; I don't feel like the movie was "disjointed" as some have said, or that we're missing masses of important context, but I still wouldn't mind seeing an extended home release to get the stuff that was cut.

None of these things are enough to drop my rating below 9/10; the positives massively outweigh the negatives.

Broly has a lot of good visual story telling going for him.

Somethings I like that weren't mention in the initial summary leak that we got is after Goku gets up from Rage Broly's Giant green blast, Broly actually smiles at seeing him and goes back in. And in the end he also smiles not only being on friendly terms with Goku but the idea of training with him again. I noticed as well that when he had super saiyan god goku on the ground, I don't believe he was actually going for the kill, just roared in victory. I have a head-canon idea on Broly's perception of things during the fight that I think is accurate, and I kinda wanted to get more detail from the light novel to confirm it.

But I ain't telling y'all because I'm new the community and don't want to show my tinfoil hat just yet.

[Simere]

Somethings I like that weren't mention in the initial summary leak that we got is after Goku gets up from Rage Broly's Giant green blast, Broly actually smiles at seeing him and goes back in. And in the end he also smiles not only being on friendly terms with Goku but the idea of training with him again.

Goku establishing a relationship with Broly is my only positive takeaway from this movie. But I don't expect it to pay dividends as I don't expect to see Broly again.

[AnimeNation101]

So what do you guys think about Vegeta’s hair going a noticeable dark green during his transformation and Goku seemingly briefly tapping into UI during his transformation to Blue from red?

Considering Goku went from SSGod (which has pupils) to Blue, it could be just a fun visual trick and not necessarily related to UI. A lot of transformations in this movie seem to go with unusual visual tricks (I liked how Goku went from SS1 to God), I read that the animators wanted to do something more interesting with the transformations also. Vegeta's hair went from black to yellow, so I guess some green in between does make some sense

Vegeta’s green hair makes sense as artistic choice but for Goku, its too much like UI for it to JUST be artistic choice. He gains silver eyes with black pupils and white hair for a noticeable amount of time.

It could be both an Easter egg and artistic choice

[Cetra]

Now to another thing. these old vs new arguments are getting redundant. Old Broly isn't nearly as bad as he's portrayed by the fandom in movie 8, but he sure as hell isn't the pinnacle of writing. New Broly isn't just the most deeply fascinating character in comparison either

The actual problem is not which one is better the actual problem is that the new one does not need to exist because he almost completely misses out on what makes Broly Broly. I am pretty sure nobody expects Broly to be a Shakespeare written character. You can reboot something by taking what you have and expanding on that with slight alterations here and not throwing out 99%.

They could have easily had both by making him like this for the last 15 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jk9xdV4ubgQ

But no, Broly was a conditioned dog at first and then a rabid dog instead of a dog that enjoyed his own blood fest way too much. Broly became an actual villain in the second half of the movie. Here he did not. He was still just a dog. You could have made him "sadistic, cruel, mean and arrogant" in his new LSSJ and still redeem him later. And then later when he reappears make it like he occassionally forgets himself in that form in terms of enjoying it too much.

[jjgp1112]

While I do like sadistic Movie 8 Broly the best, I do like how they executed this Broly in this go round. At first I shared the thoughts of Ajay and other with how he seemingly regresses to the Movie 10 and beyond characterization but even that has actual story context and is even noted by Chelye and others. It's a good jumping off point to be expanded upon. Like others mentioned, there's a lot of visual expressiveness. You really get a sense of unease within him and I honestly felt sorry for him throughout the whole fight.

It's a level of depth that's not in the original character at all. Movie 8 somewhat approached it, but kinda threw it away. Even in his calm form he just came off as a sedated madman rather than somebody being manipulated like he is here.

TREMENDOUS acting from his Japanese actor too, holy shit.

[emperior]

Well, I finally watched the movie so I’m back from my hiatus from the forum and can write up my opinions over it.

Positive:
- I will have to start with the whole movie’s look. Starting from the art style and the animation, because.. my god, the movie looked amazing from beginning to end. It was full of movement, so much that they have been able to convey characterisation through motion alone and that itself is quite an achievement.
Shintani’s new designs perfectly capture Dragon Ball’s visuals and Toriyama’s own art style, and the new colours straight from the manga are just the cherry on the cake to really make this movie look absolutely pleasing to the eyes, probably unlike everything we ever saw from animated Dragon Ball.
That’s also possible thanks to Mr Nagamine’s sensational direction and use of colours. Visual-wise, I couldn’t expect better from the movie.
The three planets shown all have a distinctive atmosphere. That’s especially true for Vampa, which looks very unsettling every time we see it. They weren’t lying when they called this a “Space opera”: there’s truly no better wording to describe this movie, as the space aspect is so carefully crafted, lore-wise too, that it actually almost felt like Star Wars to me, and that certainly is an accomplishment, especially considering this is an anime.

- The characterisation, as expected from Toriyama, is perfectly Dragon Ball. Not once did a line feel inappropriate for the characters. Freeza’s gag was unexpected and hilarious: such a gag could only be written by Toriyama considering that’s Freeza we are talking about, and so I am glad we still have the creator on-board because no other writer could ever take the luxury of having such a iconic evil character have such a stupidly hilarious wish. The way he killed Paragus was hilariously evil, as expected of Freeza.
Lemo and Cheelye were also very, very entertaining and so is the new Broly when he interacts with them. I personally prefer the new Paragus and Broly over the old ones. The new Broly finally has a personality, and both his and his father’s backstory are truly tragic. Everyone did a very good job showcasing Broly’s past through his mannerism, his dialogue and overall his innocence and ignorance towards everything.
Bardock was basically unchanged from Minus, but I like a lot some of his new dialogue lines: especially the one when he is carrying the space pod on his back, and tells Gine that after countless battles he wants to do one good thing. That was so subtle yet it told so much of Bardock. I also liked how in this, unlike in Minus, it’s reiterated how Goku was really a very low-class warrior.
I am happy that Freeza has been kept alive and evil. And that Broly too is alive along with Lemo and Cheelye. I am looking forward to what will happen to these characters in the future.

- The lore about the Saiyans was very nice: starting from the first time we see Toriyama’s Planet Vegeta on colours, to the scouters and the old scopes Saiyans used to gauge their opponents’ power level, the incubation chambers, their spaceships etcetera. I really wished we could have seen more of the past, because it was seriously entertaining.
Broly’s new rage transformation concept, where he is able to use the Oozaru’s power without transforming, is incredibly cool, and his rage form also looks very nice due to its simplicity and the golden eyes.

- Finally, I don’t have much to say about the fights expect that every single fight is incredibly well animated, super fast and has great choreography. The scale of the battles finally felt huge, like it never felt before in Dragon Ball. There really was the impression that these characters can fight at FTL speeds and can hit with power capable of wrecking entire galaxies if not the entire universe.

Negative:
- The first half set in the past felt way too rushed. It was clear that part was cut here and there from the original storyboard, which is why we saw Bardock battle damaged before getting killed by Freeza, and that was seriously disappointing as I hoped to see Bardock’s rebellion, but at least it’s implied something indeed happened?

- Overall some parts of the movie feel way too fast. The fight with Broly is perfectly paced up until Goku goes Blue, at which it gets a little too fast and then goes back to normal when Gogeta arrives. Broly’s green form just “happens” once they fight in that strange dimension, with no comments over it (although one can sort of see how the form represents Broly losing his control even further).

- There’s a lack of tension, as has been noted by many people, even though the scale of the battle is big and the setting continues to change getting more and more unsettling.

Overall, the movie was nice and entertaining from the first minute to the last one. I give it a 9/10, but this may change with time and by rewatching it (because I will surely watch it again).

[Cetra]

The new Broly finally has a personality

Dear God, please Not this again.

[OverHeaven]

So I heard that once Broly starts fighting, he is the same as old Broly or even worse. Hardly having any dialogue at all (again, during fighting). Corrects me if I'm wrong.

[BrolyKale]

So I heard that once Broly starts fighting, he is the same as old Broly or even worse. Hardly having any dialogue at all (again, during fighting). Corrects me if I'm wrong.

That's correct, he is just like Kale Berserker once he goes berserk but he doesn't keep screaming "Kakarotto". He just doesn't have his cool lines he used to have in the first Broly movie.

[emperior]

So I heard that once Broly starts fighting, he is the same as old Broly or even worse. Hardly having any dialogue at all (again, during fighting). Corrects me if I'm wrong.

Yes, that is correct. But it’s also explained why that happens, so it’s intentional.

[Cetra]

So I heard that once Broly starts fighting, he is the same as old Broly or even worse. Hardly having any dialogue at all (again, during fighting). Corrects me if I'm wrong.

incorrect
Old broly as lssj was a Character that showed he was one. This one was a scared, rabid dog. But Yeah, no lines. You are right about the worse Part.

[jjgp1112]

So I heard that once Broly starts fighting, he is the same as old Broly or even worse. Hardly having any dialogue at all (again, during fighting). Corrects me if I'm wrong.

incorrect
Old broly as lssj was a Character that showed he was one. This one was a scared, rabid dog. But Yeah, no lines. You are right about the worse Part.

Well, they're different characters with different reasons for their behavior. I don't see why you keep harping on this.

Original Broly, even when he was more talkative, was a one note madman. All of the flashbacks make it clear that even his calm, normal state is essentially just a lunatic on his meds.

This Broly is somebody who wants to be left alone but has rage issues and is being exploited. Him losing all control is a pretty major element of the plot and a struggle for his character.

[Cetra]

I don't see why you keep harping in this.

Because you have not read my posts from the last few days. And he was far from one Note. And apart from he wants to be left alone all of it was present in the old Broly.