Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[A Man named RJ]

The last words in the original manga are literally "I will surpass you one day, Kakarot." If you think after the Buu arc Vegeta has no desire to surpass Goku, then you misinterpreted his development.

Actually, that depends on whether I like how Toriyama handled his own ending too. Which (gasp) I really don't. What if i said the entire last 2 chapters ultimately felt retrogressive. What if I said I would have considered that last line to be equally as egregious as I consider Super's Vegeta? And what if i said, that even WITH that line in there, that wouldn't necessarily make Vegeta as antagonistic toward Goku as he is in Super?

Maybe i've been watching too much Dragon ball Dissection, but honestly, yeah, A lot of things Toriyama does in the end of his series feel like a mistake. There could have been a far more cathartic, and fitting ending to such a long series than Goku abandoning his family to train some random kid. across the world, when Goku can move to anybody's ki signature in the blink of an eye.

[Saturnine]

Gogeta uses the term "合体" (gattai) in that line which is often used for Potara but generally means "merging."

And yeah the film doesn't follow the anime continuity so ofc Frieza wouldn't know about it.

Kefla was in the manga too. So the movie would have to acknowledge neither of them for this to fly.

Or this is specifically about the Metamoran fusion, which is different from Potara after all.

[TheRed259]

I watched the Goku (Super Saiyan God) Vs Broly fight with subs and at some point Paragus says ''At this rate... I'll be killed... by Broly!''

Broly does care about his father in this new movie. Why did Paragus say that? Why did he think that his son will kill him? Because of that Oozaru thing? But still, Broly went Super Saiyan (even with the Oozaru inside him) because he saw his father dead. I mean, he knew what it was going on, he didn't lost his mind completely.

Any opinions?

[Rakurai]

Kefla was in the manga too. So the movie would have to acknowledge neither of them for this to fly.

Or this is specifically about the Metamoran fusion, which is different from Potara after all.

The context is specifically about the Fusion dance.

[Noah]

You say edgy one-liners, I can give you rational dialogue in which Broly shows off his cruel & sadistic disposition characteristic of the Legendary Super Saiyan that Vegeta described in the anime:

"Kakarroto, you will be the first blood sacrifice here."

*Laughs* "If you guys don't demonstrate the will to fight me, I will just destroy the entire planet!"

To the green little aliens: "You've gazed at the stars, wishing someday to return there, haven't you?" *Proceeds to blow up their planet*

"Kakarotto, is your son dear to you?" *Proceeds to trash Gohan*

"If you didn't resist like good little boys you wouldn't meet with such a painful death! I'll give every credit for being every bit Saiyan."

To Paragus: "Where do you think you're going? In a single-seated pod?" *Proceeds to kill his own father*

This is far and wide a difference in terms of characterization than his M10 self, whose majority dialogue was Kakarotto. So please do some research into the subject you are talking about instead of latching on to fan misconceptions and generalizations like some kind of sheep.

Amazing, I just miss this sadistic side of Broly, this movie only reduced him to aproach much like Movie 10.

Very interesting that Blue practically drained and defused from Vegetto so fast, but for Gogeta it was fine. I'm curious if we'll get to hear why. Maybe because of mortals or something. Maybe fake gods XD

Please, did we even got a proper explanation what SSJ "Rage" is? So yea, don't expect that either.

[lancerman]

Well, regarding this whole Superman thing, we're still in a reversal of sorts. If it were Broly origins + FUNi characterization, then Goku would have been Superman straight up. But Goku is in reality not as noble as many think him to be, so his origins - whatever they are - neither add to or detract from his character IMO. He's a reasonably kind Saiyan who loves battle. But guess what, Vegeta's that too.

It significantly devalues how he grew up to become the kind-hearted Saiyan he is today. It makes Grandpa Gohan's influence on him less valuable and heartfelt, his "accident" less serendipitous because now he's the son of the new Bardock & Gine, the latter who is an extremely kind and soft Saiyan. It makes his character development in early DB in relation to the DBZ era look like it almost wasn't almost even there. It makes Raditz look like the outlier in their family.

It's like retconning Vegeta to have been a kind Saiyan since he was a kid, instead of it being as a result of his time on Earth.

Well I mean both were retcons

[superfan2024]

I watched the Goku (Super Saiyan God) Vs Broly fight with subs and at some point Paragus says ''At this rate... I'll be killed... by Broly!''

Broly does care about his father in this new movie. Why did Paragus say that? Why did he think that his son will kill him? Because of that Oozaru thing? But still, Broly went Super Saiyan (even with the Oozaru inside him) because he saw his father dead. I mean, he knew what it was going on, he didn't lost his mind completely.

Any opinions?

Basically without the remote, Paragus pretty much has zero control over his son. What scares Paragus even more is that Broly is insanely strong. Broly constantly looses control over himself, so him losing control especially at a strength like that could potentially even stop Broly from not harming his own father.

[lancerman]

The last words in the original manga are literally "I will surpass you one day, Kakarot." If you think after the Buu arc Vegeta has no desire to surpass Goku, then you misinterpreted his development.

Actually, that depends on whether I like how Toriyama handled his own ending too. Which (gasp) I really don't. What if i said the entire last 2 chapters ultimately felt retrogressive. What if I said I would have considered that last line to be equally as egregious as I consider Super's Vegeta? And what if i said, that even WITH that line in there, that wouldn't necessarily make Vegeta as antagonistic toward Goku as he is in Super?

Maybe i've been watching too much Dragon ball Dissection, but honestly, yeah, A lot of things Toriyama does in the end of his series feel like a mistake. There could have been a far more cathartic, and fitting ending to such a long series than Goku abandoning his family to train some random kid. across the world, when Goku can move to anybody's ki signature in the blink of an eye.

I think it depends on intentions. Toriyama's intention with Vegeta was that the Boo fight made him lose the hate and malice he had that made his chase vs Goku a personal vendetta that consumed him. Goku is similarlily addicted to surpassing his rivals and finding new strengths. Goku just never had an issue with someone being stronger than him, he in fact welcomed rivals because it meant there was a new mountain to climb. Vegeta was literally putting the Earth in danger and selling his soul because he viewed Goku's existence as an affront to his.

The point was Vegeta looking at it clearly and seeing Goku for what he was. He was a better fighter. He was better because he loved fighting for the sake of it and not to prove a point. Once Vegeta found that clarity he was able to manifest it in a more healthy way. He treats surpassing Goku the same way Goku treats surpassing his rivals. In an ideal to aspire to, not a vendetta. Vegeta in the 7 years before the Boo arc was a miserable prick who barely paid his family the time of day and trained relentlessly only caring about if he could one day prove himself against Goku. Vegeta after that was able to build a real life for himself, and while he never gave up on wanting to surpass Goku, he wasn't going to lose himself to it

[TheRed259]

The fusion failed twice. So Broly was beating Freeza for 1 hour?

[superfan2024]

The fusion failed twice. So Broly was beating Freeza for 1 hour?

Yep.

[TheRed259]

LOL, how Freeza was holding on his own that long?

And 1 hour just passed in a blink of an eye in the movie but 48 minutes in the ToP felt like eternity.

[Cetra]

The fusion failed twice. So Broly was beating Freeza for 1 hour?

Sigh. No. 3 hours. (30 mins Gogeta + 1 hour cooldown) x 2.

[TheRed259]

The fusion failed twice. So Broly was beating Freeza for 1 hour?

Sigh. No. 3 hours. (30 mins Gogeta + 1 hour cooldown) x 2.

In the subs, Piccolo says to Gogeta ''Try again in 30 minutes''. In DBZ, Gotenks had to wait for 90 minutes in order to try again?

[Cetra]

The fusion failed twice. So Broly was beating Freeza for 1 hour?

Sigh. No. 3 hours. (30 mins Gogeta + 1 hour cooldown) x 2.

In the subs, Piccolo says to Gogeta ''Try again in 30 minutes''. In DBZ, Gotenks had to wait for 90 minutes in order to try again?

It is established in the manga that fusion wears off after 30 mins and that you cannot immediately dance yourself into fusion again but have to wait which is why Super Boo waited for Trunks and Goten to cool down and then fuse back. Of course I am pretty sure it was forgotten for the movie but those are the rules. "Gogeta should try again in 30 minutes" is related to just the fusion time itself. If anything, its a plot hole.

[PFM18]

The last words in the original manga are literally "I will surpass you one day, Kakarot." If you think after the Buu arc Vegeta has no desire to surpass Goku, then you misinterpreted his development.

Actually, that depends on whether I like how Toriyama handled his own ending too. Which (gasp) I really don't. What if i said the entire last 2 chapters ultimately felt retrogressive. What if I said I would have considered that last line to be equally as egregious as I consider Super's Vegeta? And what if i said, that even WITH that line in there, that wouldn't necessarily make Vegeta as antagonistic toward Goku as he is in Super?

Maybe i've been watching too much Dragon ball Dissection, but honestly, yeah, A lot of things Toriyama does in the end of his series feel like a mistake. There could have been a far more cathartic, and fitting ending to such a long series than Goku abandoning his family to train some random kid. across the world, when Goku can move to anybody's ki signature in the blink of an eye.

I don't particularly care if you like how Toriyama handled it or not, the intention was very clearly not to have Vegeta no longer want to surpass Goku. If you got the impression that Vegeta had no interest in surpassing Goku after the fight in the Buu arc, then you simply misinterpreted Toriyama's story. Vegeta being that way in Super is very consistent with what we see in EoZ.

[HeartMachine3578]

LOL, how Freeza was holding on his own that long?

And 1 hour just passed in a blink of an eye in the movie but 48 minutes in the ToP felt like eternity.

The Light Novel tie in for the movie says that Broly stopped beating on Frieza the moment he was no longer a threat.

[Hulk10]

Did the light novel say anything about Ikari being related to Broly's Super Saiyan form?

[Shineman]

Just saw the film.

The film is good in terms of animation, but on the narrative side, it is a bit confusing.

The film attempts to display Broly’s tragic story (even though Broly’s story was tragic already in his original film), but it does not do enough to highlight those tragedies. It seemingly shows Paragus’ tragedy, considering that he abandoned everything he had, without question, to save his son.

The closest thing we get is that Broly had a friend, Paragus shooed him away and that is that. Everything else is from the perspective of other characters, mainly Cheeai, who had one too many assumptions on Paragus and Broly.

Speaking of which, what are your guys opinion on Cheeai? I think her involvement in the film really brings down my enjoyment.

The film slingshot back and forth that Broly is an innocent child abused by his father, but at the same time, display that Paragus had to reason to do use the collar. Furthermore, the film shows that Paragus talks down to Broly multiple times before he used the shock collar as a last resort (which he only used once or twice… cannot recalled).

Yet, suddenly, Cheeai chastised Paragus for using it… despite the context that Broly was going to killed that person flirting with her.

So I don’t know if the film wants the audience to side with Cheeai; if it did, it sending out an confusing message, I think.

[emperior]

Just saw the film.

The film is good in terms of animation, but on the narrative side, it is a bit confusing.

The film attempts to display Broly’s tragic story (even though Broly’s story was tragic already in his original film), but it does not do enough to highlight those tragedies. It seemingly shows Paragus’ tragedy, considering that he abandoned everything he had, without question, to save his son.

The closest thing we get is that Broly had a friend, Paragus shooed him away and that is that. Everything else is from the perspective of other characters, mainly Cheeai, who had one too many assumptions on Paragus and Broly.

Speaking of which, what are your guys opinion on Cheeai? I think her involvement in the film really brings down my enjoyment.

The film slingshot back and forth that Broly is an innocent child abused by his father, but at the same time, display that Paragus had to reason to do use the collar. Furthermore, the film shows that Paragus talks down to Broly multiple times before he used the shock collar as a last resort (which he only used once or twice… cannot recalled).

Yet, suddenly, Cheeai chastised Paragus for using it… despite the context that Broly was going to killed that person flirting with her.

So I don’t know if the film wants the audience to side with Cheeai; if it did, it sending out an confusing message, I think.

Cheelai’s behaviour was quite confusing, but I doubt her role was to have the audience side with her. Her questionable choices are part of her character, and what she did for Broly was because she had a sympathy for him and disliked how Paragus treated him. She’s also probably a morally grey character and I suppose she would have been fine if Broly killed the soldier who was flirting with her.

[PFM18]

Just saw the film.

The film is good in terms of animation, but on the narrative side, it is a bit confusing.

The film attempts to display Broly’s tragic story (even though Broly’s story was tragic already in his original film), but it does not do enough to highlight those tragedies. It seemingly shows Paragus’ tragedy, considering that he abandoned everything he had, without question, to save his son.

The closest thing we get is that Broly had a friend, Paragus shooed him away and that is that. Everything else is from the perspective of other characters, mainly Cheeai, who had one too many assumptions on Paragus and Broly.

Speaking of which, what are your guys opinion on Cheeai? I think her involvement in the film really brings down my enjoyment.

The film slingshot back and forth that Broly is an innocent child abused by his father, but at the same time, display that Paragus had to reason to do use the collar. Furthermore, the film shows that Paragus talks down to Broly multiple times before he used the shock collar as a last resort (which he only used once or twice… cannot recalled).

Yet, suddenly, Cheeai chastised Paragus for using it… despite the context that Broly was going to killed that person flirting with her.

So I don’t know if the film wants the audience to side with Cheeai; if it did, it sending out an confusing message, I think.

So I mean, overall, did you like the movie? Score on a scale of 1 to 10?