Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheOne » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:48 am

Is that really necessary? Seriously.. Who in their right mind would open this topic, read through, and be shocked by spoilers at this point? It’s been released in multiple countries and they have bootleg copies floating all around the internet. If someone was trying to remain completely spoiler free, they’d know better than to come to this thread.
Torturephile wrote:Why not just tag it under spoilers like I did?
foxfang4 wrote:I really enjoyed Kanzenshuu's podcast reviewing Broly. But some of the comments towards it left me scratching my head wondering if we had seen the same film. And I think both are very discerning, and I thought their positives on the film nailed it. Let me mention some of the negatives:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:28 am

Happy Broly Day, everyone! Going to see it this Saturday at my local theatre and I am beyond hyped! Even spoiled as I am, this film is going to be legendary!

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by emperior » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:56 pm

foxfang4 wrote:I really enjoyed Kanzenshuu's podcast reviewing Broly. But some of the comments towards it left me scratching my head wondering if we had seen the same film. And I think both are very discerning, and I thought their positives on the film nailed it. Let me mention some of the negatives:

Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers

1. They said: The film is confused at the end, because the audience doens't know who to cheer for, or who the villains are.
- Now, I've seen the Spanish version already. But, what I thought was made abundantly clear was this: Paragus and Frieza are the villains. Broly is essentially split into 2 characters: Regular Broly (who we come to love) and "Ozaru Broly", the insane version. We're not supposed to relate to Ozaru Broly or cheer for him. Once Broly transforms it's almost as if Frieza's won. They specifically make note of this during the fight when Goku starts to talk to Broly and explains why Broly is a victim.

2. They said: There's no tension. It's like a wrestling match, watching 2 "hero characters" fight in a random spectacle.
I think this confusion comes from the 2 conflicting emotions I felt during the finale: 1.Go Gogeta! 2. I feel bad for Broly. It's almost uncomfortable watching Broly get beat up. But, I thought the movie made it clear that this was the point of the scene. See, the entire 2nd act built up to the climax: Broly's plight inspires the Cheelai and Lemo into trying to save him. The climax keeps cutting back and forward between the Gogeta fight and Cheelai/Lemo trying to summon Shenron. They even show glimpses of Broly's eyes "changing back" into the good/tame Broly throughout the fight vs. Gogeta, implying he's still in there. So, at the end, when Broly's saved, it's supposed to be a relief for the audience. Now, whether they liked it or not doesn't change that ending did tell a coherent story that was built up throughout the film.
I agree with you.
From beginning to end, it’s clear the movie tells the story of Broly. It’s meant to make the audience connect with him, especially when he tells his story about Bah and we realise he’s actually a pure-hearted guy.
Goku acknowledges it, and yells to Vegeta not to kill Broly and later tries to calm him himself. But Broly has rage issues and becomes such a danger for Earth that Gogeta has to get rid of him, but luckily Broly is saved and everyone’s relieved.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Ajay » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:23 pm

foxfang4 wrote:I really enjoyed Kanzenshuu's podcast reviewing Broly. But some of the comments towards it left me scratching my head wondering if we had seen the same film. And I think both are very discerning, and I thought their positives on the film nailed it. Let me mention some of the negatives:

Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers

1. They said: The film is confused at the end, because the audience doens't know who to cheer for, or who the villains are.
- Now, I've seen the Spanish version already. But, what I thought was made abundantly clear was this: Paragus and Frieza are the villains. Broly is essentially split into 2 characters: Regular Broly (who we come to love) and "Ozaru Broly", the insane version. We're not supposed to relate to Ozaru Broly or cheer for him. Once Broly transforms it's almost as if Frieza's won. They specifically make note of this during the fight when Goku starts to talk to Broly and explains why Broly is a victim.

2. They said: There's no tension. It's like a wrestling match, watching 2 "hero characters" fight in a random spectacle.
I think this confusion comes from the 2 conflicting emotions I felt during the finale: 1.Go Gogeta! 2. I feel bad for Broly. It's almost uncomfortable watching Broly get beat up. But, I thought the movie made it clear that this was the point of the scene. See, the entire 2nd act built up to the climax: Broly's plight inspires the Cheelai and Lemo into trying to save him. The climax keeps cutting back and forward between the Gogeta fight and Cheelai/Lemo trying to summon Shenron. They even show glimpses of Broly's eyes "changing back" into the good/tame Broly throughout the fight vs. Gogeta, implying he's still in there. So, at the end, when Broly's saved, it's supposed to be a relief for the audience. Now, whether they liked it or not doesn't change that ending did tell a coherent story that was built up throughout the film.

This largely misunderstands and misinterprets the criticisms we were presenting. The story is coherent, the presentation is not. It tells you one thing, but presents another. It's a back and forth between two perspectives that never settles on one or the other, or uses that conflict to create tension. The film wants me to feel bad for Broly, but it also wants me to revel in seeing Goku and Vegeta be badass. It wants to show you a sympathetic Broly, but it also wants you to enjoy the beast. It's this constant pulling between so many perspectives, and it just doesn't come together properly.

Nowhere is that clearer than the finale Gogeta vs Broly fight. Yes, the film's trying to create a "time is running out" scenario with Lemo and Cheelye running about, but it's also pedestalling Gogeta as this bastion of badassery with a totally one-sided beatdown to the tune of an upbeat Blizzard rendition. How the hell are you supposed to feel any sort of drama there when the film's totally incapable of deciding what the tone of its scenes are.

You see this time and time again throughout this film. It doesn't matter what the dialogue says if the presentation directly contradicts it. I enjoy the film a whole lot - it is a fantastic experience - but it not a thematically coherent movie whatsoever.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Paulo Gabriel » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:34 pm

Honestly, making a movie about Broly was perhaps an attempt to appeal at kids. Making him canon was dumb, pure and simple. But that's not to say I didn't enjoy the movie, 'cause sure as hell I did. Don't hate my opinion, please.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ironfist2020 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:00 pm

one thing they nailed. broly hatred for vegeta. the all fight scene started upon broly hearing the name of vegeta. that was what made him lose control. only for that the movie deserve applouses from the fans. erasing the stupid goku crying as a motivation for entirnity.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by SMKirbyZX » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:57 pm

It's been a while since I've posted here on Kanzenshuu, but it's good to post my thoughts about the film since I've just seen it.

Short answer: It's great, but minor flaws drag it down. Solid 7/10.

Long answer: I had mildly low expectations coming into this, but this film actually surpassed them. Obviously, the animation is the strongest it's ever been in YEARS. The CG moments were better here than in BoG and RoF, but they still took me out of the movie because they were obvious. The guy who worked on the CG stuff here worked on the CG fight scenes in One Piece Film Z, right? The CG in the One Piece movie was absolutely fantastic on all ends, so what happened here? Well, at least it's very good CG. Sumitomo knocked it out of the park with this soundtrack. He has improved phenomenally over the years, and it shows. It's hard to believe that there was once a time where we hated this guy's work. The chanting is so weird that I love it.

Before I talk about the plot, I wanna talk about the man himself, Broly. I've always had a disdain for Broly. I didn't hate him personally, just what he represented. I, like many others, felt massive disappointment that this character was now canon, as if Dragon Ball needed any more fanservice. However, upon watching that film, I now have mixed feelings as to whether or not I think it's a good idea. Broly is an actual character now. The scenes in the first half of the film where we get to know him and his backstory are the best moments in this film, as good as the fight scenes themselves. I couldn't believe how invested I was in his character, and I ESPECIALLY loved his story with Baa. However, it's all the sadder that it almost gets thrown to the wayside once the fighting starts. I would definitely love to see more of this Broly.

And now the plot. It's fine. Not great, just fine. First off, Dragon Ball Minus is now fully canon. That's a bad story no matter how much they try to butter it up. I mean, they elaborate on why Bardock wants to save his son and even give him an ending moment where he tries to push back Freeza's blast, but we don't know enough about this Bardock to care. And it still doesn't change the fact that Minus still makes Goku into a more neutral Superman. Everything after that plus Broly and Paragus' story is actually very solid, but I would've loved to have more Broly scenes. Maybe give him a scene where he's talking to his father?

Once Freeza's army lands on Earth, everything devolves into "They fight." Granted, it is some amazing fighting, especially the part where Gogeta and Broly's blast rip space and time itself and they still fight within it. Still, there's not too much subtext behind it, but I like the fact that you don't know who to root for since you care about both characters. I'm not a fan of how Vegeta is still stubborn about not wanting to fuse. It's like Toriyama doesn't want his character to progress beyond pride. I'm also not a fan of the ending. Why in the ever-loving hell does Gogeta let Freeza go?! He has the power to kill Freeza, and Vegeta wants to take out Freeza, so he should just do it! Despite all that, there are a lot of character moments that I adore. I love how Freeza kills off Paragus and lies about his death just to push Broly even farther. That's something he would absolutely do. And then when Goku and Vegeta just guides an out-of-control Broly into Freeza. Not to mention Freeza and Bulma's respective wish! Not to mention Beerus babysitting Bulla. I'm very happy the comedy of Dragon Ball is still here.

There's one thing I don't think anyone here mentioned yet. Did anyone find any sort of parallel between Goku and Bulma vs. Broly and Cheelai? Like, Broly being an alternate version of Goku? I may be stretching here, but hear me out: They're both low-class warriors, except that Broly has a far higher battle power. Both were sent to far off planets and were away from civilization for a long time. They were discovered by outsiders (Bulma and Cheelai) who wanted to use them for their own personal gain but soon connected with them. They're both good people who survived in the wild. They both fought Vegeta. You get where I'm going, right? I feel like this is some sort of metaphor. Intentional or not, I was very surprised by it.

In any case, the film's got problems, as all DBZ movies do. However, it does a lot of things right and surprisingly well that I'd put it above many of those films, despite still retaining the standard DB fair. It's very enjoyable overall, and I'm actually somewhat interested to see where they'll go next.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Ajay » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:13 pm

SMKirbyZX wrote: The guy who worked on the CG stuff here worked on the CG fight scenes in One Piece Film Z, right? The CG in the One Piece movie was absolutely fantastic on all ends, so what happened here?
Unfortunately, despite taking the majority of One Piece Film Z's staff, we were left with the same CG director as Resurrection F.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by SMKirbyZX » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:19 pm

Ajay wrote:Unfortunately, despite taking the majority of One Piece Film Z's staff, we were left with the same CG director as Resurrection F.
Oof. That's a damn shame. Well, he certainly tried.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by foxfang4 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:38 pm

Ajay wrote:
foxfang4 wrote:I really enjoyed Kanzenshuu's podcast reviewing Broly. But some of the comments towards it left me scratching my head wondering if we had seen the same film. And I think both are very discerning, and I thought their positives on the film nailed it. Let me mention some of the negatives:

Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers

1. They said: The film is confused at the end, because the audience doens't know who to cheer for, or who the villains are.
- Now, I've seen the Spanish version already. But, what I thought was made abundantly clear was this: Paragus and Frieza are the villains. Broly is essentially split into 2 characters: Regular Broly (who we come to love) and "Ozaru Broly", the insane version. We're not supposed to relate to Ozaru Broly or cheer for him. Once Broly transforms it's almost as if Frieza's won. They specifically make note of this during the fight when Goku starts to talk to Broly and explains why Broly is a victim.

2. They said: There's no tension. It's like a wrestling match, watching 2 "hero characters" fight in a random spectacle.
I think this confusion comes from the 2 conflicting emotions I felt during the finale: 1.Go Gogeta! 2. I feel bad for Broly. It's almost uncomfortable watching Broly get beat up. But, I thought the movie made it clear that this was the point of the scene. See, the entire 2nd act built up to the climax: Broly's plight inspires the Cheelai and Lemo into trying to save him. The climax keeps cutting back and forward between the Gogeta fight and Cheelai/Lemo trying to summon Shenron. They even show glimpses of Broly's eyes "changing back" into the good/tame Broly throughout the fight vs. Gogeta, implying he's still in there. So, at the end, when Broly's saved, it's supposed to be a relief for the audience. Now, whether they liked it or not doesn't change that ending did tell a coherent story that was built up throughout the film.

This largely misunderstands and misinterprets the criticisms we were presenting. The story is coherent, the presentation is not. It tells you one thing, but presents another. It's a back and forth between two perspectives that never settles on one or the other, or uses that conflict to create tension. The film wants me to feel bad for Broly, but it also wants me to revel in seeing Goku and Vegeta be badass. It wants to show you a sympathetic Broly, but it also wants you to enjoy the beast. It's this constant pulling between so many perspectives, and it just doesn't come together properly.

Nowhere is that clearer than the finale Gogeta vs Broly fight. Yes, the film's trying to create a "time is running out" scenario with Lemo and Cheelye running about, but it's also pedestalling Gogeta as this bastion of badassery with a totally one-sided beatdown to the tune of an upbeat Blizzard rendition. How the hell are you supposed to feel any sort of drama there when the film's totally incapable of deciding what the tone of its scenes are.

You see this time and time again throughout this film. It doesn't matter what the dialogue says if the presentation directly contradicts it. I enjoy the film a whole lot - it is a fantastic experience - but it not a thematically coherent movie whatsoever.
I for one (nor did anyone I spoke to) never felt in "awe" of how awesome the beast was. On the contrary, I felt afraid for Goku, Vegeta, and especially Broly (who was being manipulated by the 2 main villains).

I did feel the tension, and I thought it was coherent. See, at the end, yes you're supposed to cheer for Gogeta beating down "Ozaru Broly". That's the key point. It's as if they're two different characters. My cousin from Argentina was telling me that people were applauding, until suddenly you see Broly's eyes change. Then there was a murmur in the audience, as if people realized: "Wait...he's still in there. He can be saved." I thought that was pretty brilliant in fact. And exactly then, is when the tension is shot through the roof as the audience feels conflicted about killing Broly. It's very much a coherent story, thematically and in presentation.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Paulo Gabriel » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:56 pm

It's very much a coherent story, thematically and in presentation.
That's extremely good news for a Dragon Ball movie.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:51 pm

People can disagree on stuff. I'm not seeing it till tomorrow night.

Re: the CG, even if it is still the RoF guy it looks a lot less fucking terrible than in that movie. Goku was just literally broken in that movie, in this one there are a lot of off bits I can see just in the trailers, but it's a step up nonetheless.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:27 pm

Hey guys! So, I'm thinking about going to see Dragon Ball Super Broly on Saturday with my family. But I don't know if I should, because of the fact that this movie takes place after the events on the show. I introduced my dad to Super a while back in 2017 and he's currently at the Future Trunks Arc, and some of my family hasn't watched Super at all. For example, my older brother. So that's why I wanna ask you guys. Should I take my family to go see the movie, even though they're not caught up with the show?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cursed Lemon » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:43 pm

Just got back from the theater. Intentionally didn't expose myself to ANYTHING about the movie before going in.

That.

Was.

Fucking.

AMAZING.

I am absolutely dumbstruck at how good that was. Not just the animation (which, holy mother of god, it NEVER LETS UP), but the pacing, the character use, the dedication to the important parts of Broly's character, the organic rewrite of the original story, how natural they made it feel to move through the various stages of power, the decided lack of "wait for the smoke to clear then gasp" moments, the fact that
...the various moments of well-placed hilarity that were not just played for the sake of canned laughter, the lack of pointless exposition, the fight choreography, Jesus tapdancing Christ they got EVERYTHING right.

Wow.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by FutureTrunks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:04 pm

Just got back from the movie and it was AMAZING! Very thing about it was a Awesome!
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:14 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:Hey guys! So, I'm thinking about going to see Dragon Ball Super Broly on Saturday with my family. But I don't know if I should, because of the fact that this movie takes place after the events on the show. I introduced my dad to Super a while back in 2017 and he's currently at the Future Trunks Arc, and some of my family hasn't watched Super at all. For example, my older brother. So that's why I wanna ask you guys. Should I take my family to go see the movie, even though they're not caught up with the show?
There is a quick mention about the TOP at the beginning of the present day stuff but other than that it’s pretty well self contained. This is a movie that really does need to be experienced at the theater at least once. Don’t miss out. Not being caught up shouldn’t lessen the enjoyment factor at all.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by OhHiRenan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:22 pm

I'm honest to god shocked at how much I enjoyed the prologue portion of the film. I genuinely wished it were longer. I was actually getting invested in Bardock's little plot and was bummed out when it cut out so soon.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by DHM211 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:22 pm

My god that was a phenomenal experience. I dont want to say to much because certainly the adrenaline is talking right now, but that was the most I've enjoyed Dragon Ball in a long time.

On a side note, the english dub was phenomenal. The VA's for Bardock, Paragus, and Broly all nailed the softer take on the characters this movie was going for. Big plus for this movie not adding in the stupid reverb effect the TV series does whenever someone screams.

Here's the card the my theater was giving out btw:
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kodoshin » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:41 pm

Just got back from the long anticipated showing. That was freaking incredible. Even having almost everything spoiled already I was massively entertained. Highest recommendation.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by malicecrossrevolver » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:56 pm

So it turns out Broly gets his powerup from his ability to get the x10 multiplier you get in great ape form, except he keeps his humanoid form. Add Super Saiyan and he can only be stopped with Fused Ascended Super Saiyan Blue. Wow! So does that mean that SSJ4 is more powerful than Blue? It follows the same logic.

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