Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by EXBadguy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:03 am

To my suprise, my movie theater was packed just for this movie. It was great!
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by IM21 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:04 am

good seeing a popular youtuber like Chris Stuckmann giving it an A. :D

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:17 am

EXBadguy wrote:To my suprise, my movie theater was packed just for this movie. It was great!
There were no seats available in a 500+ person theater where I went.

Absolutely bananas.

Also pretty sure no one under the age of 25 was there. lol
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by kemuri07 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:35 am

Just got out of my screening and I"m a bit torn.

1. On it's own merits, Dragon Ball Super: Broly is a damn fun spectacle, and with Toriyama fully at the helm, this is easily the best thing that Super has going for it. Thanks to not having to worry about pacing for multiple episodes, as well as virtually being the Goku and Vegeta show, the movie can focus on the fights, and it's really fun watching Goku, Vegeta, Freeza, and Broly duke it out.

2. But I still don't really know what to think about DBS: Broly as a "sequel" to DBS. In fact, the movie feels downright inessential as the movie pretty much ends as it began: Broly stuck on a planet, Freeza is gonna be Freeza, and Goku and Vegeta are gonna Goku and Vegeta. The entire time I was watching it, I couldn't help thinking: What is all this extra plot stuff in service of? Like, so much was made about Broly having a better origin story, but it still led to the same exact result: Broly becomes MAXIMUM and beats everyone down until he's finally stopped. Hell all that added personality doesn't even add anyting to the actual fight since he still goes berserker mode anyways. If the point is to give Broly enough character and personality so that he can appear in the series proper, then it kind of fails to give him an interesting enough backstory that can be expanded upon in a future arc. Hell, why even have this version of Broly when we already have fem-Broly?

I did enjoy the movie even if I did have issues. Basically I got what I wanted out of it, so I can't really complain too much.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by kemuri07 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:40 am

Also: The Prettiest Pettiest Princess, Lord Freeza, is holy shit so goddamn petty in this movie that I loved it. Not only because of the sole reason he wanted the Dragon Balls, but he gets Broly to become stronger BY MURDERING PARAGUS AND BLAMING IT ON GOKU.


God his comeuppance later on in the movie is so, so good.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Torturephile » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 am

Saw the movie. Here are my thoughts on it:

-Generally amazing animation throughout. The characters felt lively and the fighting sequences were outstanding, possibly becoming my favorite pieces of action in the whole franchise. For the most part, I liked Naohiro Shintani's new character designs and for sure I hope they are retained for the future, specially since I'm more into fluidity than detail. Shame the Heroes promotional anime doesn't make use of it at all but that anime is just a dessert. However, I can't ignore how at certain times the character art styles fluctuate, sometimes more Dragon Ball'ish and sometimes more later Z'ish, but that's to be expected and fortunately it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the film. Bulma is the one character I didn't like how she was drawn at times.

-I like Super Broly. He retains certain key aspects of Z Broly but has enough differences to set him apart as a new character, and acts as a foil to Goku. Even at times he seemed a bit adorable, and this is coming from someone who rarely finds fictional characters cute. I was feeling bad when Gogeta nearly killed him considering Goku saw him as a good person, which was odd. Even Broly regained his sanity and got scared once he saw he was about to be vaporized by Gogeta's attack. A couple of nitpicks: I wish Broly spoke at least once during his transformations and that his green-haired form lasted longer, and I wouldn't have minded if he asked for Goku's name at the end instead of Cheelai, but that wouldn't be necessary. Anyways, backstory asides, I might still prefer his movie 8 incarnation a bit more, but both beat their movie 10 and 11 ones. I also enjoyed Paragus.

-I liked Freeza a bunch, from the joke involving him becoming slightly taller being a stupid yet funny reference to his infamous "five minutes" thing back in Namek, to his manipulative ways in using Broly and Paragus as pawns, which is something I long missed about the character, to him murdering Paragus to awaken Broly's potential. However, I was disappointed with his fight with Broly being more of a side spectacle to Goku and Vegeta's fusion sequences.

-I think at least much of the Goku side of the first act in the movie wasn't truly necessary and came off as rushed, and could have been used for something else. Goku's origin story in Z is more than enough for me. I read that Akira Toriyama wrote a three hour-long script for the film but had to be shortened, and I know that segment was adapted from Dragon Ball Minus, which I've been wanting to see adapted for a while but not in a film about someone else entirely. Unlike those who dislike Minus, I don't care if this throws away the whole original Bardock special since I was never too attached to that character to begin with. Hopefully, the first act of the film is improved if it gets a retelling.

-I would have preferred if Gogeta was more serious as in movie 12, instead of reminding me of Vegetto somewhat like in GT.

-I liked Cheelai a lot upon first viewing, but the second time I did she got on my nerves for repeating about how Paragus is an evil father a few times. I liked Berryblue due to her being a savvy servant in the Freeza army, and for being of the few mooks in his army that he shows respect for. The other new characters are fine but I won't obsess over them.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by The Tori-bot » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:10 am

Just diving in here without looking as I'm hoping someone could answer a quick question for me. (Seeing the movie theatrically next week so I'm avoiding this thread or any other discussions until then so that I can remain a pure unspoiled little Broli virgin.)

Is the Bardock flashback in the manga contradicted? Not necessarily asking if his revolt against Freeza is shown - just want to know if it's still possible for that scene to play out vis-à-vis what we see of that time period in the movie.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:10 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:
EXBadguy wrote:To my suprise, my movie theater was packed just for this movie. It was great!
There were no seats available in a 500+ person theater where I went.

Absolutely bananas.

Also pretty sure no one under the age of 25 was there. lol
At one of the showings near me, I had my picking of places with 6 spots. It was maybe 30% full and I booked my seat only a week and a half before the screening.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kaio_Krazy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:42 am

The Tori-bot wrote:Just diving in here without looking as I'm hoping someone could answer a quick question for me. (Seeing the movie theatrically next week so I'm avoiding this thread or any other discussions until then so that I can remain a pure unspoiled little Broli virgin.)

Is the Bardock flashback in the manga contradicted? Not necessarily asking if his revolt against Freeza is shown - just want to know if it's still possible for that scene to play out vis-à-vis what we see of that time period in the movie.
That's actually what I was coming here to talk about, short answer is no, not a chance that the manga could play out as is.
Anyway I loved the movie, is it the best ever? Maybe not, but at the risk of sounding horribly redundant, this movie was absolutely beautiful to look at. The only thing that marred the experience, was that there was one guy who wouldn't stop whooping, even though no one else was. He also kept laughing at lines not meant to be funny
But that wasn't too bad, the rest of the time the theater stayed pretty quiet, which is just the way I like it, but everyone there were definitely fans. Oddly the only time everyone cheered was for Vegeta's God transformation, I don't blame them though, it was very cool. The movie got a standing ovation too. I could definitely say more on this thing, but it wouldn't be much different from what you've likely read from everyone else who's seen it, so I'll hold my tongue instead. Long story short, I had a lot of fun with this one, and I can't wait to own it.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:58 am

Why is this thread broken? :|
The Tori-bot wrote:Is the Bardock flashback in the manga contradicted? Not necessarily asking if his revolt against Freeza is shown - just want to know if it's still possible for that scene to play out vis-à-vis what we see of that time period in the movie.
Yes. There are changes in Bardock's outfit and in the scenario, both are not the same as seen in the manga. And there is also this:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:18 am

Saw it earlier in one of my favorite theaters.

Man, what a fantastic fucking ride. As far as I'm concerned, it's easily the best Dragon Ball film to date.

What I liked:

Not a single interaction or line of dialogue failed to deliver. I love Bardock's bittersweet moment of self-reflection before he launches his son into space. I love how Freeza straight-up murders Paragus when nobody's looking so he can goad Broly into transforming, then complains about having to exert himself while spending the better part of an hour getting humiliated by the monster he created (seriously, that's so fucking Freeza). I love Cheelai and Lemo being these two lowly footsoldiers who contextualize Broly as a character and also affect the plot's resolution. I love Freeza's intended wish and how it messes with fan expectations while accentuating his comically petty narcissism. I love how Bulma's wish parallels Freeza's. I love Gogeta refusing to arrive on the battlefield until he can come up with a cool-sounding name for himself. I could go on and on gushing about the script, but here's the thing: Dragon Ball isn't Dragon Ball without Toriyama, and the characterization on display is quintessential Toriyama.

Likewise, the character distribution itself is perfect. This movie isn't about Freeza, Bardock, Vegeta or even Goku. It's about Broly, his nuanced mindset, his troubled relationship with Paragus, the misuse of his power for nefarious purposes and his exposure to the outside world leading to relationships that liberate him from those constraints. It's about how different upbringings inform different outlooks, but even those were almost exclusively written to centralize around Broly, directly or indirectly, instead of Goku or Vegeta. Everyone is meant to serve Broly's story in some capacity, which they do, and that's completely fine. The trailers screwed up massively in hindsight because they misled people into thinking there'd be significant character arcs other than the titular role, but the movie itself makes no such promises. In fact, its intent is fully apparent from the start; the first fifteen minutes alone work to establish Broly's circumstances as a child. As someone who went into the experience judging it by its own standards, the narrative felt entirely coherent to me.

The story themes are generally well-delivered, albeit somewhat subdued, and I disagree with the (common?) critique that Goku's origin in the opening lacked a thread within the broader story. To the contrary, Bardock's role/relationship with his son lends to one of the film's coolest juxtapositions: Broly, a meek castaway confined as a tool for his father's revenge, directly contrasts with Goku, an independent castaway whose freedom was specifically endowed by his father. We can see those ripples emphasized in the present era when Goku tries to convince Broly to abandon his subservience to selfish people, culminating in the latter becoming freed from the grievances of his lineage whereas "Kakarot" nods to their shared heritage shortly before the credits. What I like about the subtext of their dynamic is that it's pertinent enough to follow, but not constantly hammered in throughout their fight or so on-the-nose as to be melodramatic or obnoxious. It's just a subtle thematic foil and mutual understanding forged between two Saiyans of similar backgrounds.

Gogeta's battle also marks an unsettling shift in perspective. There is tension in these scenes, but -- as the Cheelai/Lemo subplot and audiovisual clues demonstrate -- it's a somewhat subverted tension the viewer is supposed to feel for Broly, which is exactly what the story had been building up to. The scenario changes its tone immediately after Cheelai and Lemo are shown running through the spaceship, but that's the whole point: Gogeta plays the roles of triumphant hero and frightening antagonist in equal measure, reducing Broly to something of a terrified victim his friends desperately have to rescue with the Dragon Balls. All this (clearly intentional, given the opposing BGM chants) muddying of who you're supposed to root for does an excellent job of tying thematically into Broly's tragedy as a character, and fusion is a great device for that. It's a drawn-out, deliberately uncomfortable match that motivates the audience to feel a genuine sense of urgency and remorse for a character they were likely cheering against seconds ago.

Oh, and insert the obligatory "spectacular visuals" comment here. I think people have gone over this enough as it is, and words don't do it justice anyway. It is worth mentioning that the transformation sequences consistently blew my mind just about every time I saw them on-screen, so there's that. Naohiro Shintani and the rest of the staff deserve all the praise in the world for their efforts, but I'd sooner recommend everyone see this stuff for themselves to really appreciate what it brings to the table. Let me just say I'm glad I refrained from watching the shitty camrips.

What I didn't like:

Bardock conspicuously showing up in heavy battle damage to fight back against Freeza's giant blast feels contextually misplaced, as if some sort of short-lived rebellion maybe happened beforehand. Also, Broly's transition into his iconic green-haired form surprisingly has so little presence that you could literally blink and miss it. I actually love the brisk storytelling common in Toriyama's stories (which is why I didn't mind the scene transitions) but smaller bits like these feel like jarring instances of cut content. They're not all that necessary in the grand scheme, so it's hardly a big deal, but it's odd to include them at all without fleshing them out at least a little. Still, it's not an issue that couldn't easily be rectified by an extended edition on Bluray down the line. I absolutely don't care for a TV retelling.

Overall:

A monumental success on all fronts. The positives outweigh the negatives by a landslide, and I can't agree with some complaints about the movie's story feeling disjointed; if anything, I think the opposite is the case. Nearly every scene is tightly woven with some greater purpose in mind, if only to provide setup or build a character parallel/foil, and like most of Toriyama's stories they're never tonally overstated. The pacing is nearly flawless and I can't reiterate enough how relieved I am that the movie doesn't waste my time with padding. A lot of the fanservice has some kind of additional significance or thoroughline, and a lot of the thematic elements have actual depth but remain distinctly Dragon Ball. The movie fully accomplishes its plot-related goals alongside pretty stellar direction, providing more than enough thrilling action for the adrenaline junkies while staying true to Toriyama's simplicity and sense of style. Truth be told, that's all I could ask for.

If Battle of Gods is considered a hallmark for the main story's revival, then Broly's execution embodies a golden standard for Dragon Ball features as a whole. I'd rather steer clear of rebooting old Toei ideas in the future, but this title in particular is perhaps the best argument that nobody understands how to write this series better than its original creator.

9.5/10.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kaio_Krazy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:35 am

Oh yeah, the Kanzenshuu podcast was wrong, Abo and Cado are in the movie. They show up in the background, when Freeza and his minion are talking about the Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Jamtia » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:49 am

Enjoyed the movie very much.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by funrush » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:54 am

This is probably the best Dragon Ball has ever looked. Out of the animes, movies, video game animatics, this film tops all of them in visuals IMO. The CGI bits are literally my only complaint as far as animation goes. All the transformations had unique, detailed, and interesting auras, the film overall has beautiful color pallettes. I loved all the little details in facial expression, Goku and Vegeta's personalities really came out through their body language, which is something I don't think Dragon Ball has managed to achieve until now.

The reality shatter was fucking awesome and I've been waiting for it since Battle of Gods. I made some friends around me after the film ended, and one of them suggested that was the same place Hit goes when he freezes time. Hope we get more of that when the series returns.

I love new Broly. He's so well done. He's finally got an interesting backstory and motivation, and since he's not really a bad guy he might become part of the main cast. I can absolutely see them doing an arc where Goku and Freeza fight over him and he eventually learns to live on Earth with the other characters. I've heard complaints about how he's really quick to go full rage mode, but you gotta keep in mind the context of this man's life. He's been in solitude literally his entire life. He has pretty much 0 social skills because of this, and he's been told by his father that his fucked up, lonely life is all because of Vegeta and Saiyans. Combine that with his rage tendencies, and his behavior throughout the film actually makes a lot of sense. He's been dealt an absolute shit hand his entire existence, and fighting Vegeta was a prospect for some sort of closure.

I loved all the little lore details in the flashback portion of the film, about the precursor to scouters and how King Cold used to run Planet Vegeta. I love Father of Goku but this film has really endeared me to Dragon Ball Minus in a way I never expected. Neat to see Nappa with other adult Saiyans, guess it'd make sense that it wasn't just Vegeta/Nappa/Raditz and that there were a handful of others that just died somehow over the years. Maybe their deaths are what triggered Raditz to go find Goku. Also noticed that Bardock describes Goku as having significant latent potential. I was under the impression Goku just busted his ass harder than Vegeta and that's how he caught up, but maybe Goku had at least middle-class battle power from a young age.

Freeza was really well done in the film, Beforehand I was expecting them to start hinting at making him a good guy and they didn't, which I'm glad about. He's sadistic Space Genghis, he's not gonna become good that easily or at all. Loved his role as puppetmaster in the film, killing Paragus was master scheming on his part. Loved the implication he might get more transformations beyond Golden. The parallel between his wish and Bulma's was really funny and great writing IMO. Stayed for the credits to see the cast list, an absolutely pleasant surprise to see Ayres voiced him here. I'm glad he's recovered.
Marlowe89 wrote: Bardock conspicuously showing up in heavy battle damage to fight back against Freeza's giant blast feels contextually misplaced, as if some sort of short-lived rebellion maybe happened beforehand. Also, Broly's transition into his iconic green-haired form surprisingly has so little presence that you could literally blink and miss it. I actually love the brisk storytelling common in Toriyama's stories (which is why I didn't mind the scene transitions) but smaller bits like these feel like jarring instances of cut content. They're not all that necessary in the grand scheme, so it's hardly a big deal, but it's odd to include them at all without fleshing them out at least a little. Still, it's not an issue that couldn't easily be rectified by an extended edition on Bluray down the line. I absolutely don't care for a TV retelling.
Agreed, I wish they at least had Bardock interact with Freeza in some way. There's a bit in the manga where Freeza recognizes Goku as looking like Bardock, "the Saiyan who resisted until the very end", so I was hoping that we'd get something close to his last stand in Father of Goku. Just nitpicking though.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by mute_proxy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:13 am

So sad that they left Broly's and Gogeta's strongest transformations to CGI.. If only they went and redid that sequence for home release :cry:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by batistabus » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:35 am

Just got back from seeing the movie. Quick thoughts before bed:

Overall
-It's amazing. Some of Toriyama's best character writing. A total blast.

Story
-Holy shit, the beginning seems really chopped up. The transition between Freeza threatening the Saiyans and Vegeta III talking about Vegeta IV feels drasticaly different in tone. The worst offense seems to be Bardock's rebellion, which appears to have been almost entirely cut from the film. When Freeza is preparing his Death Ball, you can see a group of people in front of the planet. When it shows Bardock firing his blast, his armor is damaged despite being perfectly fine last time we saw it. Hopefully we get to see what was cut in the home release.
-Minus is still Minus, but the direction, music, and performance helped as much as was reasonably possible.
-Freeza is fucking hilarious.
-All of the new characters are awesome. Broly is the best...I can't believe I'm saying that.
-The final scene is perfect. I have a feeling that Toriyama actually drew the final shot of Goku for the animators to reference.

Music
-I am not a Sumitomo fan, but I absolutely loved this soundtrack. Reoccurring motifs everywhere.

Animation
-I've heard people complain about this, but the fact that so many animation styles stick out is one of my favorite things about the movie. It always looks different and that keeps an otherwise drawn-out fight interesting to me. Really feels like a showcase of talent.
-The first DB film to actually resemble a movie visually.

Dub
-Pretty much what you'd expect from a Super-era dub.
-Ayers, Sinclair, Douglas, and Rial all knock it out of the park as expected. Sabat has great comedic timing. Schemmel's Goku continues to be better than expected. Mignogna did a great job as Broly.
-The scene with kid Vegeta and Raditz was totally butchered by the dub. Really poor comedic scripting and timing. Also, why do they sound so old? They're supposed to sound like aloof, shitty brats, but it doesn't sound natural at all.
-There are two dub lines that actually affect the story. The first is when Vegeta says he's worried about Freeza developing a new form. I don't believe that was foreshadowed in the original language version. The other is when Goku is talking to Broly as Super Saiyan God, and he says he shouldn't let other people tell him what to do. The original line is closer to "don't let bad guys tell you what to do", which is what pisses off Broly, because he doesn't like people speaking ill of his father. In the dub, there doesn't seem to be a reason for Goku losing control of the situation other than Broly being crazy.
-Nice that they switched "Power Level" to "Battle Power".

May be my favorite Dragon Ball movie, but it's obviously too soon to tell.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by supersaiyanZero » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:51 am

I just wish it was a little more serious. I wish they took Frieza more seriously. We got a little of that when they all met up, but I wish Frieza took a more active role in his assault. Wasn't really feeling the end, the fight was a visual spectacle but I never really felt like Goku and Vegeta were in danger. Super Saiyan Vegeta looked so. fucking. good. Fun movie though.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Luso Saiyan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:01 am

The Tori-bot wrote:Is the Bardock flashback in the manga contradicted?
No. The only (very minor) contradiction is his outfit.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rakurai » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:06 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:
No. The only (very minor) contradiction is his outfit.
And the fact that Frieza never met him, let alone should remember him.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by mute_proxy » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:15 am

Rakurai wrote:
Luso Saiyan wrote:
No. The only (very minor) contradiction is his outfit.
And the fact that Frieza never him, let alone should remember him.
And the fact that he's surrounded by Freeza soldiers, not saiyans. And that Freeza didn't wear a scouter. So pretty much everything

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