Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolyKale » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:37 am

BrolyKale wrote: -New Broly is good but could be better because once he starts fighting he keeps screaming and yelling, there are no dialogues so we don't even know what his motivation is or what he really wants...
If he DID have dialogue, then it would have completely defeated the purpose of what they were trying to portray. It was very much intended that he wouldn't have dialogue, and kind of the point is that by midway point of the movie, he had no "motivation" in the conventional sense. He was just a total berserker that had lost control entirely, and was just rampaging indiscriminately. IHe was just attacking everybody in sight, that's why they were easily able to hand him off to Freeza.

If he did have dialogue and motivated to do what he did, then him being peaceful and calm after the fight is over, would make absolutely no sense, because that motivation and "want" wouldn't suddenly go away because he lost.
At no point in the movie it explains that... Broly having no dialogues is not a good thing, they prefered showing all the transformations one by one for Goku, Vegeta and Broly than explaining why the characters are fighting and what are the dramatic stakes of their fight... what does the fight bring to the characters? at the end of the movie the characters don't evolve or even learn something new, what did the movie accomplish? Broly still didn't get his revenge on Vegeta and Goku and Vegeta alone couldn't win the fight, the characters are the same, even Broly didn't change or accomplish anything. We don't even know why Broly is getting angry at Goku and Vegeta, he doesn't even know them. Well, I suppose Paragus explained to his son what King Vegeta did to them, but the movie doesn't explain that, the narration is just bad.

But otherwise the movie in the end does not tell much, except that Broly exists somewhere in the univers and that he got two friends.
Last edited by BrolyKale on Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Amir » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:49 am

BrolyKale wrote:
BrolyKale wrote: -New Broly is good but could be better because once he starts fighting he keeps screaming and yelling, there are no dialogues so we don't even know what his motivation is or what he really wants...
If he DID have dialogue, then it would have completely defeated the purpose of what they were trying to portray. It was very much intended that he wouldn't have dialogue, and kind of the point is that by midway point of the movie, he had no "motivation" in the conventional sense. He was just a total berserker that had lost control entirely, and was just rampaging indiscriminately. IHe was just attacking everybody in sight, that's why they were easily able to hand him off to Freeza.

If he did have dialogue and motivated to do what he did, then him being peaceful and calm after the fight is over, would make absolutely no sense, because that motivation and "want" wouldn't suddenly go away because he lost.
At no point in the movie it explains that... Broly having no dialogues is not a good thing, they prefered showing all the transformations one by one for Goku, Vegeta and Broly than explaining why the characters are fighting and what are the dramatic stakes of their fight... what does the fight bring to the characters? at the end of the movie the characters don't evolve or even learn something new, what did the movie accomplish? Broly still didn't get his revenge on Vegeta and Goku and Vegeta alone couldn't win the fight, the characters are the same, even Broly didn't change or accomplish anything. We don't even know why Broly is getting angry at Goku and Vegeta, he doesn't even know them. Well, I suppose Paragus explained to his son what King Vegeta did to them, but the movie doesn't explain that, the narration is just bad.
Broly never had any motivation. He never wanted to fight either, that's why he couldn't care less about his loss.

He had no speaking lines because he lost control over himself while fighting as a result of his father's way of raising him. So yeah, if he did have speaking lines it would defeat what they were trying to go for and would make absolutely no sense for Broly to be calm and innocent at both the beginning and the end of the movie. You say they didn't explain that in the movie, but they did through story and narrative, not through statements. The person you've been debating with literally explained why in his first paragraph and all you did was saying ''they didn't explain it'' without even addressing his points at all. Also, the fact you can't understand why Broly was mad at Goku and Vegeta shows you didn't pay attention. Broly himself wasn't mad at them specifically, he lost control in general and became a completely different person. At that state he would get mad at anyone in his way, I mean he pretty much did.

Also what do you mean the character didn't evolve or leanred something new. First off, they learned plenty, so that's just wrong. Secondly is there a certain rule that says characters have to evolve after their big battles? What does that even mean? The aftermath led to very clear changes and had consequence, like Paragus's death, Frieza's new plan to use Broly as his righthand after letting him control himself with the help of Cheelai and Lemo. Speaking of which, Cheelai and Lemo now living with Broly on Vampa, Goku setteling things with Broly and stating he is going to train with him. Your claim that the movie accomplished nothing is absurd.
Last edited by Amir on Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolyKale » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:54 am

Amir wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:
BrolyKale wrote: -New Broly is good but could be better because once he starts fighting he keeps screaming and yelling, there are no dialogues so we don't even know what his motivation is or what he really wants...
If he DID have dialogue, then it would have completely defeated the purpose of what they were trying to portray. It was very much intended that he wouldn't have dialogue, and kind of the point is that by midway point of the movie, he had no "motivation" in the conventional sense. He was just a total berserker that had lost control entirely, and was just rampaging indiscriminately. IHe was just attacking everybody in sight, that's why they were easily able to hand him off to Freeza.

If he did have dialogue and motivated to do what he did, then him being peaceful and calm after the fight is over, would make absolutely no sense, because that motivation and "want" wouldn't suddenly go away because he lost.
At no point in the movie it explains that... Broly having no dialogues is not a good thing, they prefered showing all the transformations one by one for Goku, Vegeta and Broly than explaining why the characters are fighting and what are the dramatic stakes of their fight... what does the fight bring to the characters? at the end of the movie the characters don't evolve or even learn something new, what did the movie accomplish? Broly still didn't get his revenge on Vegeta and Goku and Vegeta alone couldn't win the fight, the characters are the same, even Broly didn't change or accomplish anything. We don't even know why Broly is getting angry at Goku and Vegeta, he doesn't even know them. Well, I suppose Paragus explained to his son what King Vegeta did to them, but the movie doesn't explain that, the narration is just bad.
Broly never had any motivation. He never wanted to fight either, that's why he couldn't care less about his loss.

He had no speaking lines because he lost control over himself while fighting as a result of his father's way of raising him. So yeah, if he did have speaking lines it would defeat what they were trying to go for. You say they didn't explain that in the movie, but they did. Also, the fact you can't understand why Broly was mad at Goku and Vegeta shows you didn't pay attention. Broly himself wasn't mad at them specifically, he lost control in general and became a different person. At that state he would get mad at anyone in his way.
Why did he attack Vegeta if he doesn't care about anything? idk that doesn't make any sense to me. Like I said the narration is bad.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Amir » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:09 am

BrolyKale wrote:
Amir wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:
At no point in the movie it explains that... Broly having no dialogues is not a good thing, they prefered showing all the transformations one by one for Goku, Vegeta and Broly than explaining why the characters are fighting and what are the dramatic stakes of their fight... what does the fight bring to the characters? at the end of the movie the characters don't evolve or even learn something new, what did the movie accomplish? Broly still didn't get his revenge on Vegeta and Goku and Vegeta alone couldn't win the fight, the characters are the same, even Broly didn't change or accomplish anything. We don't even know why Broly is getting angry at Goku and Vegeta, he doesn't even know them. Well, I suppose Paragus explained to his son what King Vegeta did to them, but the movie doesn't explain that, the narration is just bad.
Broly never had any motivation. He never wanted to fight either, that's why he couldn't care less about his loss.

He had no speaking lines because he lost control over himself while fighting as a result of his father's way of raising him. So yeah, if he did have speaking lines it would defeat what they were trying to go for. You say they didn't explain that in the movie, but they did. Also, the fact you can't understand why Broly was mad at Goku and Vegeta shows you didn't pay attention. Broly himself wasn't mad at them specifically, he lost control in general and became a different person. At that state he would get mad at anyone in his way.
Why did he attack Vegeta if he doesn't care about anything? idk that doesn't make any sense to me. Like I said the narration is bad.
Obviously because his father told him to do so. And I never said he doesn't care about anything. I said he never had any motivation of his own to fight, it was all Paragus's doing, he is also the reason Broly tends to snap really quickly, like he did right before attacking Vegeta and that Frieza soldier. As the fight went on, Broly didn't care about any of that because he wasn't himself anymore, he had no motivation at that point.

If he really cared about destroying Vegeta that much, he would have kept fighting him instead of going after Goku, he was just raging out. Movie states and shows that several times.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolyKale » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:21 am

Broly started to get angry on his own, not because Paragus told him to do so. We can suppose that Broly wanted to get his revenge otherwise he wouldn't get mad and attack Vegeta first. But the thing is, again, the movie doesn't explain that, which is why I said the narration is plain bad.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Amir » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:40 am

BrolyKale wrote:Broly started to get angry on his own, not because Paragus told him to do so. We can suppose that Broly wanted to get his revenge otherwise he wouldn't get mad and attack Vegeta first. But the thing is, again, the movie doesn't explain that, which is why I said the narration is plain bad.
Like I said, as a result of Paragus's way of rasing him, he tends to snap really quickly regardless of anything. That had nothing to do with him wanting to kill Vegeta. He doesn't even like fighting much less pick one.
He attacked Vegeta first because Paragus told him to, obviously he didn't give a shit about Goku. All Broly cared about was obeying his father. Him getting angry is a totally different thing all together, just like with that Frieza soldier. Broly's motivation behind that was to help his friend, but he ended up almost murdering the soldier needlessly, and had Paragus not stopped him he would have wrecked everything in his path.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolyKale » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:50 am

Amir wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:Broly started to get angry on his own, not because Paragus told him to do so. We can suppose that Broly wanted to get his revenge otherwise he wouldn't get mad and attack Vegeta first. But the thing is, again, the movie doesn't explain that, which is why I said the narration is plain bad.
Like I said, as a result of Paragus's way of rasing him, he tends to snap really quickly regardless of anything. That had nothing to do with him wanting to kill Vegeta. He doesn't even like fighting much less pick one.
He attacked Vegeta first because Paragus told him to, obviously he didn't give a shit about Goku. All Broly cared about was obeying his father. Him getting angry is a totally different thing all together, just like with that Frieza soldier. Broly's motivation behind that was to help his friend, but he ended up almost murdering the soldier needlessly, and had Paragus not stopped him he would have wrecked everything in his path.
I think it's obvious that Paragus filled him with hatred, but you can't tell me that Broly had no motivation of his own fight, he does have a motivation and it's because of King Vegeta. And if he truly doesn't have any motivation of his own fight then it's just bad... the fight serves absolutely no purpose and is meaningless from A to Z.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Broli Broly » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:23 am

BrolyKale wrote:
Amir wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:Broly started to get angry on his own, not because Paragus told him to do so. We can suppose that Broly wanted to get his revenge otherwise he wouldn't get mad and attack Vegeta first. But the thing is, again, the movie doesn't explain that, which is why I said the narration is plain bad.
Like I said, as a result of Paragus's way of rasing him, he tends to snap really quickly regardless of anything. That had nothing to do with him wanting to kill Vegeta. He doesn't even like fighting much less pick one.
He attacked Vegeta first because Paragus told him to, obviously he didn't give a shit about Goku. All Broly cared about was obeying his father. Him getting angry is a totally different thing all together, just like with that Frieza soldier. Broly's motivation behind that was to help his friend, but he ended up almost murdering the soldier needlessly, and had Paragus not stopped him he would have wrecked everything in his path.
I think it's obvious that Paragus filled him with hatred, but you can't tell me that Broly had no motivation of his own fight, he does have a motivation and it's because of King Vegeta. And if he truly doesn't have any motivation of his own fight then it's just bad... the fight serves absolutely no purpose and is meaningless from A to Z.
Besides this, I think raging is just Broly's way of fighting. He was described in one of the official materials as "the Incarnation of Rage", and he possesses a unique state named "Ikari / Wrathful". In other words, Broly's rage is there, with or without hatred, like Marvel's Hulk and Capcom's Asura.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Tian » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:48 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: How the hell does something like that even happen?
It is now said that this leak was caused by a FUNimation employee. Which makes sense since the leaked copy lacks the special watermark that cinemas put into the films to track pirates.

While I don't think this leak will affect the final box office too much, it's gonna be a bad thing for FUNimation.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheNingen » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:58 pm

BrolyKale wrote:
Amir wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:Broly started to get angry on his own, not because Paragus told him to do so. We can suppose that Broly wanted to get his revenge otherwise he wouldn't get mad and attack Vegeta first. But the thing is, again, the movie doesn't explain that, which is why I said the narration is plain bad.
Like I said, as a result of Paragus's way of rasing him, he tends to snap really quickly regardless of anything. That had nothing to do with him wanting to kill Vegeta. He doesn't even like fighting much less pick one.
He attacked Vegeta first because Paragus told him to, obviously he didn't give a shit about Goku. All Broly cared about was obeying his father. Him getting angry is a totally different thing all together, just like with that Frieza soldier. Broly's motivation behind that was to help his friend, but he ended up almost murdering the soldier needlessly, and had Paragus not stopped him he would have wrecked everything in his path.
I think it's obvious that Paragus filled him with hatred, but you can't tell me that Broly had no motivation of his own fight, he does have a motivation and it's because of King Vegeta. And if he truly doesn't have any motivation of his own fight then it's just bad... the fight serves absolutely no purpose and is meaningless from A to Z.
He doesn't. The narrative is fine. You're just misunderstanding it. Broly is protective of his Dad. He sees his Dad getting angry at someone, he will get angry at them too by proxy. He loves and respects his father, regardless of the torture he put them through. This is shown through the narrative time and time again. His "motivation" for fighting? Do it because Dad said so. He doesn't care about King Vegeta. He never gave a passing thought to King Vegeta. He cares about what his Dad cares about. And now that Paragus is dead, he can really be his own person.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by WeLoveBroly » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:02 pm

The CGI looked really bad and out of place.

I preferred the original movie because it took all the z fighters to stop Broly and everyone got screen time.

This time it was just Goku and Vegeta as usual and i don't want dragon ball to turn into that. Gohan needs to have been invovled here.

Frieza was also really out of character. His wish is to grow 5cm taller? Come on get real.

Other than that the action was exceptional and the Saiyan backstory was great as well but obviously retconned.

Don't like that Bardock accepts his race's impending doom so nonchalantly and doesn't even attempt to confront Freeza.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:30 pm

WeLoveBroly wrote:The CGI looked really bad and out of place.

I preferred the original movie because it took all the z fighters to stop Broly and everyone got screen time.

This time it was just Goku and Vegeta as usual and i don't want dragon ball to turn into that. Gohan needs to have been invovled here.

Frieza was also really out of character. His wish is to grow 5cm taller? Come on get real.

Other than that the action was exceptional and the Saiyan backstory was great as well but obviously retconned.

Don't like that Bardock accepts his race's impending doom so nonchalantly and doesn't even attempt to confront Freeza.
I like Movie 8 too, but I couldn't really say which I prefer at the moment because the excitement hasn't died down yet. I will say that Gogeta beating Broly makes more sense than the power of the injured Z fighters allowing Goku to one-shot him after getting treated like a rag doll the whole fight. Of course then there's the crazy power scaling in DBS Broly.

What doesn't quite make sense is that during Goku vs Beerus it was said that they had to control their ki to avoid destroying the universe, and yet here we have Broly going off the rails but the earth and universe survive. :?

I guess it's best not to overthink these things. :lol:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by foxfang4 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:26 pm

TheNingen wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:
Amir wrote: Like I said, as a result of Paragus's way of rasing him, he tends to snap really quickly regardless of anything. That had nothing to do with him wanting to kill Vegeta. He doesn't even like fighting much less pick one.
He attacked Vegeta first because Paragus told him to, obviously he didn't give a shit about Goku. All Broly cared about was obeying his father. Him getting angry is a totally different thing all together, just like with that Frieza soldier. Broly's motivation behind that was to help his friend, but he ended up almost murdering the soldier needlessly, and had Paragus not stopped him he would have wrecked everything in his path.
I think it's obvious that Paragus filled him with hatred, but you can't tell me that Broly had no motivation of his own fight, he does have a motivation and it's because of King Vegeta. And if he truly doesn't have any motivation of his own fight then it's just bad... the fight serves absolutely no purpose and is meaningless from A to Z.
He doesn't. The narrative is fine. You're just misunderstanding it. Broly is protective of his Dad. He sees his Dad getting angry at someone, he will get angry at them too by proxy. He loves and respects his father, regardless of the torture he put them through. This is shown through the narrative time and time again. His "motivation" for fighting? Do it because Dad said so. He doesn't care about King Vegeta. He never gave a passing thought to King Vegeta. He cares about what his Dad cares about. And now that Paragus is dead, he can really be his own person.
Totally, and I don't need a scene having Paragus explain the first 30 minutes of the movie to Broly to understand that Broly gets his father's anger at Vegeta. I'm sure Paragus told him in the 41 years they lived on that planet. Moreover, the scene with Frieza talking to Paragus privately exposes their intentions: Frieza asks Paragus to straight up kill Vegeta (through Brolly), and then says he wants the finishing blow on Goku. It worked for me. It was simple. The narrative didn't get too stuck up on complicating Frieza's motivation. Doing so would only detract from the focus of the narrative so far: Paragus getting his revenge on Vegeta.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:40 pm

BrolyKale wrote:At no point in the movie it explains that... Broly having no dialogues is not a good thing, they prefered showing all the transformations one by one for Goku, Vegeta and Broly than explaining why the characters are fighting and what are the dramatic stakes of their fight... what does the fight bring to the characters? at the end of the movie the characters don't evolve or even learn something new, what did the movie accomplish? Broly still didn't get his revenge on Vegeta and Goku and Vegeta alone couldn't win the fight, the characters are the same, even Broly didn't change or accomplish anything. We don't even know why Broly is getting angry at Goku and Vegeta, he doesn't even know them. Well, I suppose Paragus explained to his son what King Vegeta did to them, but the movie doesn't explain that, the narration is just bad.

But otherwise the movie in the end does not tell much, except that Broly exists somewhere in the univers and that he got two friends.
Did you need the movie to spell it out for you? He had no dialogue because he was completely out of control and on a rampage. They mentioned his loss of control only a million times, he isn't going to be clearly and coherently speaking during a state like that. If he did, it would be completely nonsensical and defeat the purpose of this berserker they were trying to portray.

Broly didn't get his revenge? Did you watch the movie? Broly didn't want revenge. The bad blood is between his father and the Saiyans, Broly doesn't even really seem to care, but he cares about his father's desires. He respects and loves his father, so he did what his father and to a lesser extent he aligns his views with his dad. It isn't that he is angry at Goku and Vegeta, he just got angry initially when he was losing, and then he was angry about his father's death and he just lost control. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with being angry towards specifically Goku and Vegeta. Again, this is exactly why they were easily able to "hand off" Broly to Freeza. If he was angry at Goku and Vegeta, why the hell would he be content attacking Freeza?

In other words, they didn't "explain" why he was mad at Goku and Vegeta when he doesn't even know them, by the fact that, well he was never angry towards them in the first place. So in a roundabout way, they answered your question.
TheNingen wrote: His "motivation" for fighting? Do it because Dad said so. He doesn't care about King Vegeta. He never gave a passing thought to King Vegeta. He cares about what his Dad cares about. And now that Paragus is dead, he can really be his own person.
Thank you. You explained it way better than me. He does what dad says so. Dad is dead, so he isn't going to go and try to satisfy or please his dad.
WeLoveBroly wrote: I preferred the original movie because it took all the z fighters to stop Broly and everyone got screen time.
But within the context of the current story, all of the other Z fighters are completely worthless. Goku and Vegeta are the only ones that are relevant or that can do anything. If they had all the z fighters try to stop Broly, it would JUST be for fanservice and not because it actually would make sense and fit within the narrative.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:56 pm

Was it Daman Mills who voiced Freeza on FUNi's dub? Hard to distinguish the two because they sound nearly identical.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ruler9871 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:07 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Was it Daman Mills who voiced Freeza on FUNi's dub? Hard to distinguish the two because they sound nearly identical.
Kinda like Laura Bailey and Alexis Tipton.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:55 pm

Gohan not being in the movie was a good thing

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by WeLoveBroly » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:17 pm

I get the z fighters are now irrelevant but thats not a good thing having a much smaller supporting cast.

Eg wont be getting moments like Krillin, Tirn and Piccolo teaming up against Nappa.

I'd prefer the writers made more of the eupporting cast relevant like even adding android 17, future trunks or gohan in to have a go at Broly before ending with Gogeta. Because right now it will just be Goku and Vegeta in fights which is a tad boring imo.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:04 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:Was it Daman Mills who voiced Freeza on FUNi's dub? Hard to distinguish the two because they sound nearly identical.
Kinda like Laura Bailey and Alexis Tipton.
Not really. Alexis Tipton's Trunks is really easy to distinguish from Laura's. Especially when fused.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:10 pm

Yo, Dragon Ball Super Broly... was Super!! And yes I had to say it just for old times sake.
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