Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[ahill1]

So, I've watched the movie.

1-- King Cold was the former commander of the army, and Freeza joined later. Makes sense, I guess. In the manga it's clear that Vegeta didn't know King Cold;

2 -- King Vegeta seemed to respect King Cold, but was immediately afraid at Freeza over a first gaze at him... Did he saw Freeza as that more of a potential threat?

3 -- So they are still running with Minus' take on why Goku was sent to Earth... To find a new place to make his acquittance and to escape from the potential threat of Freeza, with Bardock being presented as a Saiyajin that cares for his child; I dislike it honestly. I rather have Goku going to Earth to conquer it, like it was originally planned;

4 -- Why did Paragus think Broly would lose his mind were him to transform into an Oozaru? Wasn't that the case only with Goku and Gohan, the reason being them showing their Saiyajjn side while Oozaru?

5 -- Whis seems even gayer in my country's dub;

6 -- Where did people get the idea that Goku and Vegeta were retconned to be the same age from? It's quite clearly shown Goku being born 5 years after Vegeta had been already born;

7 -- Freeza killing Paragus -- screaming to Broly, who went mad and cut loose even more was *bleep*ing hilarious lmaooo;

8 -- Paragus said, iirc, when Broly cut loose further, that such was the effect of the Oozaru transformation and he was fighting evenly against God Vegeta... And beforehand he was fighting evenly against SSJ Vegeta. Does that imply God is a 10x multiplier off of SSJ?

And that's it... Didn't find it the movie of the year in any way and also found the attempt funny scenes kinda forced, but it was entertaining at least.

[Miracles]

Broly actually being a Character was probably the best thing in the film. I actually liked the more time spent on him.

Broly was always a character. Now if the past Broly wasn't a character that people liked, that's a different story.

A big, Hulk-like, Saiyan monster who hated Goku because he cried a lot in a nursery & because some douchey older Saiyans made fun of him, which he shouldn't remember BTW, is a character? He had potential, but if you're calling a half-baked idiot that's plot point is so forced & underdeveloped that it both makes no sense & is extremely petty just to stretch out the movie to its full around 50-minute runtime & fill time till the inevitable fight with Goku & crew, a character, then I don't know what to say.

The legendary Broly from movie 8 didn't hate Goku because of crying. Paragus stated that his goal was destruction of the universe. Did Broly ever address Kakarot about the crying? Nope, he only enjoyed in putting the entire Z Senshi in the ground. Broly was a evil and sadistic character, which proves he had a character.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, I've watched the movie.

1-- King Cold was the former commander of the army, and Freeza joined later. Makes sense, I guess. In the manga it's clear that Vegeta didn't know King Cold;

2 -- King Vegeta seemed to respect King Cold, but was immediately afraid at Freeza over a first gaze at him... Did he saw Freeza as that more of a potential threat?

3 -- So they are still running with Minus' take on why Goku was sent to Earth... To find a new place to make his acquittance and to escape from the potential threat of Freeza, with Bardock being presented as a Saiyajin that cares for his child; I dislike it honestly. I rather have Goku going to Earth to conquer it, like it was originally planned;

4 -- Why did Paragus think Broly would lose his mind were him to transform into an Oozaru? Wasn't that the case only with Goku and Gohan, the reason being them showing their Saiyajjn side while Oozaru?

5 -- Whis seems even gayer in my country's dub;

6 -- Where did people get the idea that Goku and Vegeta were retconned to be the same age from? It's quite clearly shown Goku being born 5 years after Vegeta had been already born;

7 -- Freeza killing Paragus -- screaming to Broly, who went mad and cut loose even more was *bleep*ing hilarious lmaooo;

8 -- Paragus said, iirc, when Broly cut loose further, that such was the effect of the Oozaru transformation and he was fighting evenly against God Vegeta... And beforehand he was fighting evenly against SSJ Vegeta. Does that imply God is a 10x multiplier off of SSJ?

And that's it... Didn't find it the movie of the year in any way and also found the attempt funny scenes kinda forced, but it was entertaining at least.

When it comes to Broly's uncontrollable Oozaru power, bear in mind that old lore had it that only Saiyan elites like Vegeta could actually control and retain consciousness in their Oozaru forms. Broly, however, likely didn't have that on Planet Vampa where he would've kept turning into an Oozaru early on due to there ALWAYS being 3 moons to bombard him with Blutz Waves everytime he looked up at the sky.

[Scsigs]

The legendary Broly from movie 8 didn't hate Goku because of crying. Paragus stated that his goal was destruction of the universe. Did Broly ever address Kakarot about the crying? Nope, he only enjoyed in putting the entire Z Senshi in the ground. Broly was a evil and sadistic character, which proves he had a character.

Did you not pay attention to the movie? Paint my memory as wrong, but I remember Broly, after he caught sight of Goku, had flashbacks that looked like 'Nam flashbacks & he went into a frigging fugue state with his blind rage over the situation. Yes, he delighted in kicking the ever-loving shit out of the others, but it was all fueled by his seething hatred of Goku crying & making him cry, then the Saiyans making fun of him for doing so. And, being an instrument of destruction that flies off the handle when someone who made him cry as a baby does not a character make. He's a plot device. Nothing more. No, he didn't have character. He was just there.
And, that may have been PARAGUS' goal, but it certainly wasn't Broly's. Broly is literally the tool Paragus used to destroy, nothing else.

[Miracles]

The legendary Broly from movie 8 didn't hate Goku because of crying. Paragus stated that his goal was destruction of the universe. Did Broly ever address Kakarot about the crying? Nope, he only enjoyed in putting the entire Z Senshi in the ground. Broly was a evil and sadistic character, which proves he had a character.

Did you not pay attention to the movie? Paint my memory as wrong, but I remember Broly, after he caught sight of Goku, had flashbacks that looked like 'Nam flashbacks & he went into a frigging fugue state with his blind rage over the situation. Yes, he delighted in kicking the ever-loving shit out of the others, but it was all fueled by his seething hatred of Goku crying & making him cry, then the Saiyans making fun of him for doing so. And, being an instrument of destruction that flies off the handle when someone who made him cry as a baby does not a character make. He's a plot device. Nothing more. No, he didn't have character. He was just there.
And, that may have been PARAGUS' goal, but it certainly wasn't Broly's. Broly is literally the tool Paragus used to destroy, nothing else.

Your memory is wrong or you guys watch the terrible Dragonball Z dub. Paragus explained to Vegeta that Broly's goal was the total destruction of the universe. That's why Paragus was missing an eye and needed the control device on Broly. This is way before Kakarot came on the scene. Not to mention, the memories Broly had of Kakarot was explained as only the trigger to Broly's Saiyan instincts. Despite having the collar around his neck, those images awakened the legendary Saiyan. Broly himself never stated Goku crying as a baby was the reason why he hated him. The narration claimed and showed both being born on the same day and Goku making Broly cry was a premonition that Goku would defeat Broly later as well.

[Scsigs]

Your memory is wrong or you guys watch the terrible Dragonball Z dub. Paragus explained to Vegeta that Broly's goal was the total destruction of the universe. That's why Paragus was missing an eye and needed the control device on Broly. This is way before Kakarot came on the scene. Not to mention, the memories Broly had of Kakarot was explained as only the trigger to Broly's Saiyan instincts. Despite having the collar around his neck, those images awakened the legendary Saiyan. Broly himself never stated Goku crying as a baby was the reason why he hated Goku. The narration claimed and showed both being born on the same day and Goku making Broly cry was a premonition that Goku would defeat Broly later as well.

I don't have access to the movie, since I'm on vacation, but when I get home next week, I'll give it a rewatch with the subs for the Japanese dub turned on. For the record, the FUNi dub of that movie is one of the better ones in terms of translation. Like, I was legitimately shocked at how close it was for the time it was produced.

[Miracles]

Your memory is wrong or you guys watch the terrible Dragonball Z dub. Paragus explained to Vegeta that Broly's goal was the total destruction of the universe. That's why Paragus was missing an eye and needed the control device on Broly. This is way before Kakarot came on the scene. Not to mention, the memories Broly had of Kakarot was explained as only the trigger to Broly's Saiyan instincts. Despite having the collar around his neck, those images awakened the legendary Saiyan. Broly himself never stated Goku crying as a baby was the reason why he hated Goku. The narration claimed and showed both being born on the same day and Goku making Broly cry was a premonition that Goku would defeat Broly later as well.

I don't have access to the movie, since I'm on vacation, but when I get home next week, I'll give it a rewatch with the subs for the Japanese dub turned on. For the record, the FUNi dub of that movie is one of the better ones in terms of translation. Like, I was legitimately shocked at how close it was for the time it was produced.

I have not seen DBS: Broly BTW. I am waiting for the Blue-Ray Japanese subbed version. I am not saying this Broly is bad, I am waiting to see the film.

Enjoy your vacation!

[Scsigs]

Your memory is wrong or you guys watch the terrible Dragonball Z dub. Paragus explained to Vegeta that Broly's goal was the total destruction of the universe. That's why Paragus was missing an eye and needed the control device on Broly. This is way before Kakarot came on the scene. Not to mention, the memories Broly had of Kakarot was explained as only the trigger to Broly's Saiyan instincts. Despite having the collar around his neck, those images awakened the legendary Saiyan. Broly himself never stated Goku crying as a baby was the reason why he hated Goku. The narration claimed and showed both being born on the same day and Goku making Broly cry was a premonition that Goku would defeat Broly later as well.

I don't have access to the movie, since I'm on vacation, but when I get home next week, I'll give it a rewatch with the subs for the Japanese dub turned on. For the record, the FUNi dub of that movie is one of the better ones in terms of translation. Like, I was legitimately shocked at how close it was for the time it was produced.

I have not seen DBS: Broly BTW. I am waiting for the Blue-Ray Japanese subbed version. I am not saying this Broly is bad, I am waiting to see the film.

Enjoy your vacation!

I was talking about Movie 8, not the new movie.

[JohnnyCashKami]

There's been some confusion whether DBS Broly comes out in April or December but it's actually December.. right?

DBS Broly has yet to be premiered in other countries so TOEI might not want a home release so early before it hits all possible countries.

[Lord Beerus]

There's been some confusion whether DBS Broly comes out in April or December but it's actually December.. right?

DBS Broly has yet to be premiered in other countries so TOEI might not want a home release so early before it hits all possible countries.

It's coming out on Blu-Ray and DVD in April from FUNimation. The release date for original Japanese version has yet to be stated.

[JohnnyCashKami]

There's been some confusion whether DBS Broly comes out in April or December but it's actually December.. right?

DBS Broly has yet to be premiered in other countries so TOEI might not want a home release so early before it hits all possible countries.

It's coming out on Blu-Ray and DVD in April from FUNimation. The release date for original Japanese version has yet to be stated.

So I guess that's not an error on FUNimation's part. April's not too long now.

[Melkaniator]

I watched DBS: Broly in Japanese, Spanish and some scenes on English.

The English dub is the worst version, and I haven't even watched it completely on that version, it changes stuff, like so many times in the past.

[Lord Beerus]

Polygon produced a very interesting article about Dragon Ball Super Broly exploring other certain themes of the film.

[majinwarman]

Polygon produced a very interesting article about Dragon Ball Super Broly exploring other certain themes of the film.

An interesting article that has real thoughts instead of blasphemy. I want everyone to please read this article.

[Shaddy]

It's an interesting take on the way Paragus and Broly interact though I'm not sure it was really intended. I don't think Paragus and Broly's problems were really a "masculinity" thing, not in anything so far as "boys like fight", something the series itself is quick to glorify at every OTHER opportunity. It seems solely focused on Paragus's revenge-boner (okay maybe that's a little masculine) and seeing Broly mostly through his power level. If Broly had been a girl with everything else the same...well, I'd say Paragus wouldn't have treated them any different, but I don't believe that. But the reason I believe that is less my understanding of the character and more Toriyama's writing style. I feel like implying the movie is making a statement on something like this is kind of at odds with Toriyama's general portrayal of masculinity or femininity, even within the film itself.

I guess if Toriyama does a JK Rowling and says "uh, yeah, I totally did that on purpose", I won't turn up my nose at it, but it seems a bit far-fetched.

[Miracles]

I don't have access to the movie, since I'm on vacation, but when I get home next week, I'll give it a rewatch with the subs for the Japanese dub turned on. For the record, the FUNi dub of that movie is one of the better ones in terms of translation. Like, I was legitimately shocked at how close it was for the time it was produced.

I have not seen DBS: Broly BTW. I am waiting for the Blue-Ray Japanese subbed version. I am not saying this Broly is bad, I am waiting to see the film.

Enjoy your vacation!

I was talking about Movie 8, not the new movie.

I know, you said you were going to re watch Movie 8 in Japanese. I was just letting you know I didn't see this new Broly yet. So I can't judge him.

There's been some confusion whether DBS Broly comes out in April or December but it's actually December.. right?

DBS Broly has yet to be premiered in other countries so TOEI might not want a home release so early before it hits all possible countries.

It's coming out on Blu-Ray and DVD in April from FUNimation. The release date for original Japanese version has yet to be stated.

So that means the Japanese version should be coming out before the dub right?

[Scsigs]

I have not seen DBS: Broly BTW. I am waiting for the Blue-Ray Japanese subbed version. I am not saying this Broly is bad, I am waiting to see the film.

Enjoy your vacation!

I was talking about Movie 8, not the new movie.

I know, you said you were going to re watch Movie 8 in Japanese. I was just letting you know I didn't see this new Broly yet. So I can't judge him.

There's been some confusion whether DBS Broly comes out in April or December but it's actually December.. right?

DBS Broly has yet to be premiered in other countries so TOEI might not want a home release so early before it hits all possible countries.

It's coming out on Blu-Ray and DVD in April from FUNimation. The release date for original Japanese version has yet to be stated.

So that means the Japanese version should be coming out before the dub right?

Most likely. Probably in March, since Res F came out only 3 weeks to a month before the US release.

Ok. Also, I never said I was gonna watch it in Japanese. I'm gonna watch the dub with the subs for the Japanese version turned on, which is how I generally watch anime anyways.

[Draconic]

Caved in and watched the movie. There's just no country even close to mine I can just drive to to watch it and the Blu-Ray release is too far away, especially since I know all the spoilers and my hype was dying down. Even sadder, I had to watch the dub, so take this 'review' in knowing it's not 100% accurate to the final toughts. Will probably come back once I watch it in Japanese with further clarifications.

Starting off with the technical bits:
- The animation was fantastic. Hearing all the talk about inconsistency really had me worried, but outside of one scene Takahashi's God Goku vs Broly, worst bit of the movie (which speaks volumes mind you) I think everything worked out incredibly well together.
- Couple of months ago I made a post in the animation thread saying Onishi's style was straying way too far from the norm even for my tastes, but his scene just shut me up hard. Not only are his cuts marvelous, but his art is perfectly detailed and nothing looks wonky, even following Takahashi's cuts. Goes to show how judging without knowing is shit... so shame on me.
You already know the other fantastic chunks, so I won't repeat them, but this one in particular demanded my attention.
- The CGI is bad. Plain and simple. I like how they drew over the models in the close-ups, but it simply wasn't enough. Considering it's also used in the Blue Goku vs Broly fight and the transformations of Broly to full power and Gogeta to Blue, pivotal parts of the movie just fall flat because of it.
- There's some choppy fucking editing in the past scenes. Things just jump around years without rhyme or reason and while by themselves the scenes are great (the Minus story's presentation is so good I can overlook a lot of it's flaws... still need the original to 100% make my mind on it, but I don't think that will make it any worse) I am just staring at the screen, blink and I'm on whole different planets, following whole different characters in whole different eras. Things were either mindlessly cut from the script, or from the movie itself and that doesn't sit well with me. There's at least 10 to 15 minutes of content missing here.
- Sound mixing is terrific and the soundtrack is godlike. No complaints on that front, 0, nada!

Moving on to the story:
- The flashback scenes are great. Probably the best they could have been, especially Bardock's. I like everybody's characterization. I like Bardock a lot... much less 'warm-hearted' than I thought he'd be. The little background we get on the Freeza Army is nice. Young Freeza himself is a loveable bastard. My only problem is Broly's sentence by King Vegeta should have been much harsher to warrant that level of hate from Paragus. I prefer the stabbing to death in the original movie to the exile, though a combo of both would have probably worked the best. Something like Broly is stabbed, Paragus rescues him but they crash on Vampa in their run. As it stands, the revenge thread is kinda thin and the only reason for the exile taking so long was Paragus himself being rash and clumsy with the ship.
- Goku training to keep in shape is in character, lovely and honest (with a nice tie-in to the ToP, this is a follow up to that after all) and I also love Vegeta's alleged reason for training. He's supposedly preparing for Freeza, but we all know it's cause of Goku display of power in the previous arc. Nice introduction to them.
- I know Freeza's wish is hated by people, but I think they did address most of the complaints about it in the movie itself. But not only that, I actually kinda love the fact this whole ordeal starts because of his pettiness and not out of an elaborate revenge scheme. It's just the much more Dragon Ball way to start a conflict, for lack of a better way to put it. What I don't understand is the parallel drawn between him and Bulma... there doesn't seem to be much more there than both being petty divas (who love Vegeta? ). It's just kinda weird, since it leads nowhere and Freeza is a central character to the plot while Bulma is... there.
- I love the new Broly. I love his Rage form and I love that it opens the door for more ways the Saiyans could get stronger (Super Saiyan 4?). His interactions with Cheelai and Lemo are nice, though they kind of were overhyped by fans. Could've used some more development there, especially since they end up together as kind of like Broly's own Bulma and Yamcha. One extra scene on the ship between Broly's shock threatment and Cheelai stealing the remote would work wonders.
- Another thing misleading if you only read about the movie is the fact Broly doesn't speak after the fight starts. And while that is true, not only is it explained he loses control over himself but it's also shown when tries to blast away God Vegeta with a beam that, paraphrasing Goku, who knows what could it have done if it hit the ground? So I don't mind this fact at all, but it could have been much better... probably by having Super Saiyan Broly, while trouncing Goku, Vegeta and Freeza actually shit-talk like OG Broly it would have showed why Gogeta had to put him down in the final battle (he's not just mindless... he's mindlessly evil), but keep the fact we know him to actually be a good guy and his instincts are just all over the place. Then, you cheer for him getting beat-up, cause he's taking things too far.. but you're also relieved he's saved in the end, cause you like him. Would have also probably satisfied fans of OG Broly much more than the purely good guy we got.
- Gogeta is great. I love the way he choses a name for himself... He's pretty fun. But when you really look at it deeper his inclusion is just shallow. He doesn't resonate with any of the themes of the movie and he also introduces some big tension problems. The movie just kinda assumes you're taken aback by the pure spectacle and while in the seat that's true, when the wheels start turning again in your brain you realize things are weird here.
- His entire way of fighting is dodging and then hitting back hard... something Ultra Instinct did in the Tournament of Power with much more finesse, technique and weight. Compared to that, Fusion just seems the brute way to achieve the same result and while I love his inclusion (I shamelessly eat up fan-service) they should've probably taken at least a different route with him.
- The minor characters in this movie are super charismatic, Berryblue (is that how you spell it?) especially.
- Piccolo is cool, like usual. I love how he's scolding Goku and Vegeta during the learning of the Dance. And his telepathic conversation with Goku, while little in the grand scheme of things, is used to break the two halves of the movie in a great way.
- The ending shows tons of promise, what with Freeza basically telling the audience Broly is not only coming back but will actually control his powers next time. Hopefully later rather than sooner, but if we are to get yet ANOTHER Saiyan main character, at least we see he won't just go the way of Goku and Vegeta in his quest for strength. Probably no God or Blue for him. Explore the Rage form Toei, Toriyama, whoever!

Closing thoughts: flawed movie, with big (not huge) issues on all fronts, but if you watch it the right way there's always something special and great to take your mind away from the problems.

[Hulk10]

I didn't agree with Cheelai and Lemo blaming Broly's berserker nature on Paragus. I agree though that Paragus was not the best father to say the least. But you can't blame Paragus for Broly's inability to control his Saiyan instincts.

[Shineman]

Your memory is wrong or you guys watch the terrible Dragonball Z dub. Paragus explained to Vegeta that Broly's goal was the total destruction of the universe. That's why Paragus was missing an eye and needed the control device on Broly. This is way before Kakarot came on the scene. Not to mention, the memories Broly had of Kakarot was explained as only the trigger to Broly's Saiyan instincts. Despite having the collar around his neck, those images awakened the legendary Saiyan. Broly himself never stated Goku crying as a baby was the reason why he hated Goku. The narration claimed and showed both being born on the same day and Goku making Broly cry was a premonition that Goku would defeat Broly later as well.

I don't have access to the movie, since I'm on vacation, but when I get home next week, I'll give it a rewatch with the subs for the Japanese dub turned on. For the record, the FUNi dub of that movie is one of the better ones in terms of translation. Like, I was legitimately shocked at how close it was for the time it was produced.

Miracles is right regarding Broly. I don't know or remember how this "Broly is evil and/or hates Goku because of the cry" started, and it's been years since I seen the movie in English to confirmed whether or not FUNImation simply screwed the pooch in the translation.

I don't have the screenshots at the moment, but here's what Paragus says after Broly seen Goku for the first time (after finding out his mind control device is seemingly losing control over him):

Paragus: "Could it be Kakarot? Does this mean that Broly's instints as a Saiyan have been awakened by Kakarot's power and he is starting to overcome the limits of my control?"

This isn't the first time that states the reasoning of Broly's action; Dragon Ball Dokkan states the reasoning as well.

Paragus: Broly's Saiyan Instincts have been awakened by Kakarot's power!

Not once, throughout that entire film, ever rely that Broly was angry, hated, despise or anything of the sort towards Goku.

Paragu also explained the reasoning why Broly is such a savage, monstrous beast:

"Broly was the very model of a saiyan. As he began to develop, the extraordinary battle power he was born with increased and turned savage as I, his father, felt terror towards him".

Here is what those two scientists say regarding Broly and Goku during the flashback of them as babies:

Brilliant Scientist #1: "I'm shocked by Paragus' son. He's just been born, and yet his battle power is already 10.000."

Brilliant Scientist #2: "Bardock's son, with a battle power of only 2, made Paragus' son cry!"

Brilliant Scientist #1: "His battle power may be low, but that kid who they named Kakarrot at least has a lot of guts!"

The flashback once again appeared again once Goku defeats Broly -- hence the significant of those statements above--it was as foreshadowing; despite Goku being weaker, he still managed to "beat" Broly, despite the whole gap between their powers.

The only time Broly actually "hate" Goku is in the Second Coming film, which is understandable, considering he just got defeated by him. Krillin summarized Broly's motivation (note, this is Japanese subs): "For that Broly guy to follow us all the way back to Earth, he must be really been upset when he lost to Goku, huh?"

There's nothing from the original film that shows Broly hates (or even remembers) Goku at all. He just a monster who loves the thrill of fighting and destruction, and Goku's power simply awakened his instinct, enough to break through his father's control that suppressed him.