Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:56 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Miracles wrote:I really can't wait to see this movie. Especially after reading the interviews. I appreciate Nagamine's loyalty to Toriyama's script. He really understands the chain of command. He also stated that Gogeta and Broly's fight was brutal and that both were "pummeling" each other with special attacks. Yet many in the fandom claim Gogeta casually stomped Broly. Even went so far to say he held back. I scratch my head cause a fusion using their full power [Blue] and launching special attack finishers is NEVER holding back in canonical Dragonball. I'll have to wait and see the facts for myself.

So Shintani made Full power Broly from scratch. To give him his legendary ambiance. Toriyama approved it and didn't make many corrections to Broly. He just didn't want him overly macho.
As someone whose seen the movie many times, I can say that ssj broly landed about 2-3 blows on ssj gogeta, Lssj Broly landed 2, one which knocked the air out of him, and another that send him flying. However, Broly never landed a single hit on blue gogeta, ever. So yes, it was a clean stomp. What he meant by brutal, it was the brutal beat down gogeta gave broly, not each other.
ZeroNeonix wrote:
Miracles wrote:I really can't wait to see this movie. Especially after reading the interviews. I appreciate Nagamine's loyalty to Toriyama's script. He really understands the chain of command. He also stated that Gogeta and Broly's fight was brutal and that both were "pummeling" each other with special attacks. Yet many in the fandom claim Gogeta casually stomped Broly. Even went so far to say he held back. I scratch my head cause a fusion using their full power [Blue] and launching special attack finishers is NEVER holding back in canonical Dragonball. I'll have to wait and see the facts for myself.

So Shintani made Full power Broly from scratch. To give him his legendary ambiance. Toriyama approved it and didn't make many corrections to Broly. He just didn't want him overly macho.
I've seen the movie, and I didn't get the impression Broly was on Gogeta's level at all. Gogeta was just casually dodging Broly's attacks, and Gogeta was basically ragdolling Broly around the place towards the end, when Whis declared the battle is coming to its conclusion. When you see a smile on the face of a Saiyan in the middle of battle, that means they've clearly got the upper hand and are just playing with their food.
I see. So it is clear that Gogeta was stronger than Broly. However, only by use of his full power, utilizing Super Saiyan god Super Saiyan. At least Broly made a fusion go all out. It's the first time in Dragonball history that a single opponent made a Goku and Vegeta fusion max out on the weight bench.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by emperior » Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:59 pm

Miracles wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Miracles wrote:I really can't wait to see this movie. Especially after reading the interviews. I appreciate Nagamine's loyalty to Toriyama's script. He really understands the chain of command. He also stated that Gogeta and Broly's fight was brutal and that both were "pummeling" each other with special attacks. Yet many in the fandom claim Gogeta casually stomped Broly. Even went so far to say he held back. I scratch my head cause a fusion using their full power [Blue] and launching special attack finishers is NEVER holding back in canonical Dragonball. I'll have to wait and see the facts for myself.

So Shintani made Full power Broly from scratch. To give him his legendary ambiance. Toriyama approved it and didn't make many corrections to Broly. He just didn't want him overly macho.
As someone whose seen the movie many times, I can say that ssj broly landed about 2-3 blows on ssj gogeta, Lssj Broly landed 2, one which knocked the air out of him, and another that send him flying. However, Broly never landed a single hit on blue gogeta, ever. So yes, it was a clean stomp. What he meant by brutal, it was the brutal beat down gogeta gave broly, not each other.
ZeroNeonix wrote:
Miracles wrote:I really can't wait to see this movie. Especially after reading the interviews. I appreciate Nagamine's loyalty to Toriyama's script. He really understands the chain of command. He also stated that Gogeta and Broly's fight was brutal and that both were "pummeling" each other with special attacks. Yet many in the fandom claim Gogeta casually stomped Broly. Even went so far to say he held back. I scratch my head cause a fusion using their full power [Blue] and launching special attack finishers is NEVER holding back in canonical Dragonball. I'll have to wait and see the facts for myself.

So Shintani made Full power Broly from scratch. To give him his legendary ambiance. Toriyama approved it and didn't make many corrections to Broly. He just didn't want him overly macho.
I've seen the movie, and I didn't get the impression Broly was on Gogeta's level at all. Gogeta was just casually dodging Broly's attacks, and Gogeta was basically ragdolling Broly around the place towards the end, when Whis declared the battle is coming to its conclusion. When you see a smile on the face of a Saiyan in the middle of battle, that means they've clearly got the upper hand and are just playing with their food.
I see. So it is clear that Gogeta was stronger than Broly. However, only by use of his full power, utilizing Super Saiyan god Super Saiyan. At least Broly made a fusion go all out. It's the first time in Dragonball History that a single opponent made a Goku and Vegeta fusion max out on the weight bench.
Merged Zamasu performed much better against Vegetto than Broly did against Gogeta.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:08 pm

emperior wrote:
Miracles wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
As someone whose seen the movie many times, I can say that ssj broly landed about 2-3 blows on ssj gogeta, Lssj Broly landed 2, one which knocked the air out of him, and another that send him flying. However, Broly never landed a single hit on blue gogeta, ever. So yes, it was a clean stomp. What he meant by brutal, it was the brutal beat down gogeta gave broly, not each other.
ZeroNeonix wrote:
I've seen the movie, and I didn't get the impression Broly was on Gogeta's level at all. Gogeta was just casually dodging Broly's attacks, and Gogeta was basically ragdolling Broly around the place towards the end, when Whis declared the battle is coming to its conclusion. When you see a smile on the face of a Saiyan in the middle of battle, that means they've clearly got the upper hand and are just playing with their food.
I see. So it is clear that Gogeta was stronger than Broly. However, only by use of his full power, utilizing Super Saiyan god Super Saiyan. At least Broly made a fusion go all out. It's the first time in Dragonball History that a single opponent made a Goku and Vegeta fusion max out on the weight bench.
Merged Zamasu performed much better against Vegetto than Broly did against Gogeta.
Merged Zamas was a double and Broly was a single. Broly fighting a full powered Gogeta is more impressive, even if he was outstripped.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by FlpShimizu » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:14 pm

Zamas was also immortal. Vegeto stabbed him and he just kept talking.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:21 pm

It may have been a curbstomp, but Gogeta's fight with Broly in the last part of it did help cement the idea that the tension in the film was about BROLY'S survival instead of our protagonists.

I for one didn't think I'd be dreading Broly dying, of all things.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Galan007 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:34 pm

To me it was clear that Gogeta looked so superior to Broly because he was a much better fighter, with a lot more tricks in his bag -- not necessarily because he was massively more powerful.

Think about it: among many others, Goku and Vegeta have trained with f*cking WHIS, whereas Broly's only 'teacher' was Paragus(lol) -- they should absolutely be FAR superior fighters. That said, Broly was still powerful enough to soak EVERYTHING Gogeta dished out, and continued getting exponentially stronger/evolving the entire time. The fact that Gogeta not only went from SSJ all the way to SSB, but also felt that a 'full force' Kamehameha was required to put Broly down, speaks volumes about Broly's power.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Gogeta was more powerful, but I don't think the difference between their powers was nearly as vast as some believe. As mentioned, I think the difference in fighting skill made the gap in power appear larger than it actually was. /shrug

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:24 pm

Galan007 wrote:To me it was clear that Gogeta looked so superior to Broly because he was a much better fighter, with a lot more tricks in his bag -- not necessarily because he was massively more powerful.

Think about it: among many others, Goku and Vegeta have trained with f*cking WHIS, whereas Broly's only 'teacher' was Paragus(lol) -- they should absolutely be FAR superior fighters. That said, Broly was still powerful enough to soak EVERYTHING Gogeta dished out, and continued getting exponentially stronger/evolving the entire time. The fact that Gogeta not only went from SSJ all the way to SSB, but also felt that a 'full force' Kamehameha was required to put Broly down, speaks volumes about Broly's power.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Gogeta was more powerful, but I don't think the difference between their powers was nearly as vast as some believe. As mentioned, I think the difference in fighting skill made the gap in power look larger than it actually was. /shrug
it was mainly power. Gogetas punches at the end were literally sending him flying. Of course just like you I doubt it was vast, but it was certainly noticeable.

Heck, that's probably the reason he didn't defuse in battle.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:13 am

Managed to watch this movie in Japanese, so:

• Bardock •

It seems a "new character" requires a "new voice". I noticed in my dub that his voice actor was playing him a little different if compared to the TV Special, then I watched the movie in English and the same feeling happened with Sonny Strait. Both voice actors were... "softer", more calm while doing the character's voice, completely different from what we saw, well "heard", back in the TV Special. Guess what? I did feel that Masako Nozawa was also playing Bardock a little bit different. The voice actors really made a great job nailing at what's supposed to be the Bardock from modern era.

• Gine •

Knowing that Naoko Watanabe plays Chi-Chi, you (well, at least me) unconsciously keeps making a parallel between Goku/Chi-Chi and Bardock/Gine. And while I find Chi-Chi annoying, Naoko Watanabe does deliver a cute Gine, as it should be. Again, just give more of this character, all she needs is more screentime and character development.

• Raditz and Vegeta •

Just tell me who had the idea to pick Pilaf to play kid Raditz, I need to congratulate them in person. :lol: Also, is Ryō Horikawa playing kid Vegeta too? it sounded a lot like him. If so, damn, it's good. Kid Vegeta should appear more just because of him.

• English dub & Japanese •

Yeah, as expected, there are differences. A simply "Kakaroto!" from Gine turned to "Don't forget about us", I commented why I didn't like it in another thread. Also, I saw some people here discussing about Gogeta reacting and saying "what the?" when he broke into a pocket dimension in the English dub, they started to speculate stuff on it so I paid attention to that and no such line (or any similarity to it) occurs in the Japanese version, as far as I can tell, Gogeta didn't react to the change in the scenario at all.

That said, there is one difference for the best, when Goku and Vegeta fly toward Freeza with Broly right behind, nothing is said. The "good luck, Freeza!" is an English-dub thing only, and that was cool indeed. Wished that was in the Japanese and in my dub versions.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ZeroNeonix » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:19 am

Grimlock wrote:That said, there is one difference for the best, when Goku and Vegeta fly toward Freeza with Broly right behind, nothing is said. The "good luck, Freeza!" is an English-dub thing only, and that was cool indeed. Wished that was in the Japanese and in my dub versions.
I thought he said, "Have fun, Frieza!"

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:18 am

Galan007 wrote:To me it was clear that Gogeta looked so superior to Broly because he was a much better fighter, with a lot more tricks in his bag -- not necessarily because he was massively more powerful.

Think about it: among many others, Goku and Vegeta have trained with f*cking WHIS, whereas Broly's only 'teacher' was Paragus(lol) -- they should absolutely be FAR superior fighters. That said, Broly was still powerful enough to soak EVERYTHING Gogeta dished out, and continued getting exponentially stronger/evolving the entire time. The fact that Gogeta not only went from SSJ all the way to SSB, but also felt that a 'full force' Kamehameha was required to put Broly down, speaks volumes about Broly's power.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Gogeta was more powerful, but I don't think the difference between their powers was nearly as vast as some believe. As mentioned, I think the difference in fighting skill made the gap in power appear larger than it actually was. /shrug
A really great post. I agree with all of this. Despite having almost zero battle experience whatsoever, Broly was incredibly impressive. Even “learning” while in the midst of battle.

Just imagine if HE trained with Whis..
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shad73 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:58 am

ZeroNeonix wrote:
Shad73 wrote:I feel like having seen this if Broly masters a’la Kale his Berserker form, he might have a chance against Jiren. I say that as someone whose favorite character is Broly; I don’t think he’s as strong as Jiren, yet.
Well, keep in mind that Broly hasn't had anyone to train with other than Paragus. Who knows what his full potential will be, once he's gotten some proper training with Goku. Maybe he'll even take a different path to power than the God forms, canonizing Super Saiyan 4.

But yeah, I don't think Broly is quite at Jiren's level. In U7, I think the order of most powerful beings are: Whis > Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku > Jiren > Broly > Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta > Beerus. I know people argue about where Beerus is in the totem pole, but I think Goku surpassed him a while back. We just haven't had the rematch to prove it for sure.
Agreed. I think Broly opens the door in all possibility to SS4, a form I’ve always referred to as ‘Oozaruman’ because it diverges from the usual path of Super Saiyan. Strangely enough, Broly seems to have this perfect fusion of the mindset (Great Ape rage) with the ability to be affected emotionally (Paragus’ death). That’s why I make the case for the Kale comparison, but I don’t think Kale is ANYWHERE near Broly’s power level.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:56 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:It may have been a curbstomp, but Gogeta's fight with Broly in the last part of it did help cement the idea that the tension in the film was about BROLY'S survival instead of our protagonists.

I for one didn't think I'd be dreading Broly dying, of all things.
Yes exactly!! That's what I have been saying the tension was for Broly never our heroes. The only instance where Broly had a significant upperhand was against SSG Goku but we all knew Goku had one more form to go*. Most of the film was done through Broly's perspective, that's why we had the dramatic music in the final bout, why Broly regained his pupils when he basically saw death coming for him when Gogeta fired the Super KMH.

*Even with SS Broly it didn't seem Goku and Vegeta exhausted all their effort (they just fired one combined attack) before Goku took the executive decision to fuse.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:46 am

Don't know if it's been brought up, but looks like the movie will be released on home video Late April. Blu-Rays are up for preorder on Amazon US :thumbup:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Scsigs » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:55 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote:Don't know if it's been brought up, but looks like the movie will be released on home video Late April. Blu-Rays are up for preorder on Amazon US :thumbup:
Someone has, yes.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Scsigs » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:15 pm

Ok, I've finally rewatched the first Broly movie after a few days of being home from vacation. Not only that, but I visited the 7th circle of Hell & subjected myself to the first sequel as well, because it was written & directed by the same 2 people as the first; Takao Koyama & Shigeyasu Yamauchi respectively & the sequel informs the first film in a way that the first only threw in your face as gently as a frying pan would be, but it's fair to give what I'm analyzing here the benefit of the doubt.
Now, if no one knows what I'm talking about, over a week ago, I promised someone in this thread that I'd rewatch the first Broly movie after there was an argument. I decided to throw in the second as well, so I'll give thoughts both positive & negative, then give my thoughts on if Broly's anger is completely directed at Goku or if he's a blood knight like some people here seem to think he is. I've also read the TV Tropes pages of these films to try to understand this mentality better.
Here's what I'm working with. I have the steelbook DVDs from 2009. I watched the English dubs with the Japanese soundtrack with the subtitles turned on for the sub. These are the official subs by Steve Simmons. I do this for all anime I watch & it's just to see if the dubs added in any text that wasn't there in the original Japanese. It's also to mainly catch the important dialogue for my assessment.

Now, Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan:
Positives first:
The animation of this movie is excellent. The character models, the backgrounds, the shading. It's all good stuff. I particularly like a lot of the effects work used to portray the energy manipulation that comes with Ki control. One thing in particular that stands out in these movies specifically is Broly's green ki blast attack. The entire picture going from one color then to normal when he uses it is a good choice & makes for a good spectacle.
The English dub is one that I feel is a proto-dub that would later be perfected for Kai, Super, & the last 3 movies. It's accurate, yet playful, which is how I like my dubs. It's only really hampered by SOME of the lines that were changed being rather stupid alterations, a "my gosh!" by Goku being thrown in (which, no matter how you slice it, is narmy even by kid's show dub standards), which PLAGUED the Buu Saga of Z, & the voice acting, while not being as bad as Z's, isn't really up to snuff with the cast's current level of quality. This dub was done in 2002 or 3, so I understand why this is. Still, it's better than nothing & at least I don't feel embarrassed to be watching it.
The start of this movie is decently done. Building the mystery of the destruction of South Galaxy & who this Legendary Super Saiyan person is. Paragus coming to get Vegeta to rule over a new Planet Vegeta as an act of revenge for his father not considering using Broly as a soldier & attempting to kill them, I think, is actually genuinely good. It's certainly more involved than the majority of the villains in the Z movies get.

Middle of the road:
Sean Schemmel's performance is one people who watch Super dubbed will be familiar with. This is an early example of his more "happy go lucky" Goku as opposed to the more serious Goku he was hired to play. It's not overplayed because the movie's not written like Super would later be, but it DOES have seeds of overplaying Goku's happy go lucky nature for comedic relief. Thankfully, it's kept to the first half & doesn't lead to jarring moments like Super sometimes has done by trying to make you laugh during more serious moments, leading to mood whiplash. And even when there's a slightly comedic line, it's not there for long & it's not too jarring. So, Sean does what's needed for the role. Whether you like him attempting to do the more comedic moments or not is what's gonna inform your opinion here.
In terms of timeline placement, this movie is one of the few with the least problems of most of the Z movies, since you COULD slot it in the 10-day wait for the Cell Games. However, due to when it was most likely written, Cell doesn't appear in a cameo or mention by any of the cast. This is where I feel the Abridged version adds for the better on the original. Also, for some reason, Gohan & Goku are in their normal states when they're supposed to be Super Saiyans due to their training. Makes no sense is what I'm saying, though THAT'S not really important in the grand scheme of things.
Vegeta being in 'awe' at Broly's power. While it's stupid, is actually based on his interactions with Cell when he achieves his Perfect Form & Vegeta can't phase him. It's dumb, but at least I can say I get where they were coming from with this stupidity.

Now for the negatives:
Unfortunately, the master used, even though this is the same master used for FUNi's US Blu-Rays, I feel is kinda half-assed in the remastering. Now, it's not their Z Blu-Rays level of bad, but the master is a bit flat & the 480p-ness is definitely felt when watching it. If I could get a copy of the Japanese remaster used for Toei's recent Blu-Rays, I feel this film would really shine. Even rewatching TFS' abridged version, the animation is better from the Dragon Box master than this remaster.
The plot of this movie is nothing new for the Z movies. We previously had Turles as a previous Saiyan who somehow survived Planet Vegeta's destruction at the hands of Frieza & no one knowing about him in the head count. Once Goku shows up halfway through, the movie's pacing gets REALLY bogged down, slowly having Broly lose his sanity after seeing him again after 20+ years until finally Broly snaps, breaks free of his constraints his father put in place, & starts beating the ever-loving shit out of Goku, Gohan, Trunks, Piccolo, & Vegeta. The movie then basically becomes torture porn until Goku finally kills Broly...or so you'd think. The Abridged version definitely put it right when one of the Shamoshians says, "We're not gonna miss sadism like THIS!"
Broly has very little to NO discernible personality whatsoever. When he's in his base form, all he does is get bossed around by Vegeta & looks, as Trunks puts it in the dub, like a toothpick. When he's transformed, he's nothing but the Hulk without the "gentle giant, only in a world that hates him" trait. His one defining trait, which is only amplified with the Abridged version, is his hatred of Goku. Some people on here have argued, as TV Tropes has it, Broly being a sadistic Blood Knight (someone who relishes fighting no matter what). However, that's NOT how the movie portrays him. He never states that he wants to kill Goku, no, nor does he actually state it was Goku crying next to him as a baby is why he hates him, but this movie, & the next one, doesn't really portray it any other way. Paragus DOES state that he AND Broly wanted revenge on Vegeta, yes, but this is more so what Paragus wanted. Broly's selective memory from when he was a baby doesn't help matters. Apparently, as presented by Paragus, Broly was perfectly fine with helping him get revenge on Vegeta. Paragus even lets him destroy a LOT of South Galaxy to be able to lure Vegeta into their clutches. The one wild card they didn't take into account is Goku knowing King Kai (which, I can understand why they wouldn't), which gets him involved directly in the plot.
The only place where I can see Broly being a Blood Knight is the one scene where he's apparently destroying things in space before his father restrains his power with the device he has. However, the movie never allows itself to explore these elements because it's forgotten just as quickly as it's brought up & it's replaced with...Broly being mad at Goku because he cried when they were babies in the Saiyan nursery & the Saiyans watching over them made fun of Broly for joining in on the crying even though they were BABIES. Now, THIS is the point I was arguing the most. For one, Broly shouldn't remember that. They weren't even that old when it happened. Yes, I know Goku suffered a blow to the head when he was a toddler & that's why he is how he is. However, that more so seemed to me as something that was more of an attitude adjustment as it was portrayed & Goku wasn't more than a few years old, as portrayed in Minus & the new Broly movie (&, even then, in the original Z anime & Kai, due to them animating it at the time before this info was known, & I doubt even Toriyama thought of those details, Goku wasn't more than a year or so old when that happened) & it was his healing factor that kept him from being fully mentally handicapped & allowed his brain to heal, but with his current personality as a result.

I'm laughing at the absurdity that this was literally stated as what happened.

However, it's only ever been stated that the differences biologically between pure-blooded Saiyans & humans is that Saiyans grow tails, have the ability to go Super Saiyan, & are savage warriors by nature. Nothing else. Broly was a baby when that happened &, as such, his brain was still developing. Think about when your first memory was. Odds are it's not until you're around 3-5 years old. Babies don't remember anything that happens to them. Why would Broly remember it? There's my logic problem with it. Next, it makes Broly look INSANELY petty. He's REALLY gonna take vengeance on a guy who made him cry when they were both babies? Yeah, nice villain there. Next, it'd make MORE sense for Broly to go after Vegeta. Paragus DID state that they wanted to have revenge on him, but the movie makes it seem that Broly's not really interested in that, even though he has MORE of a reason to hate Vegeta since his father tried to have him killed, but, NOPE! Broly HAS to fight Goku. And, for some reason, Broly HAS to have a connection to Goku.
For those who're gonna argue against this, the FILM never portrays it this way that Broly wanted revenge on anyone but Goku, or is at least confused on how to properly portray it. The sequel makes this worse with one crucial addition I'll get to in a bit. For one, we get NO look inside Broly's mind with any internal monologue. You know what we DO get? Paragus giving us a flashback to them in the nursery & what looks like Broly focusing heavily on it. We get NO further details, so the only conclusion as to what the hell is happening is that Broly hates Goku for what happened. If it's a misunderstanding, then it's one THE FILM causes with its poor structuring.
The thing I can compare it to is Batman V Superman. The poor structuring of the way that film's plot was told made the way Batman comes back from being intent on killing Superman laughable (realizing his mom & Superman's adoptive mom's names were Martha), which could've been a clever realization, but the film was poorly told & made it a meme over night. There's a reason why TFS altered the way the story's told to make Broly have a split personality that only comes out when he hears "Kakarot" & removes some of the fluff. It doesn't solve all the problems, but it makes it more concise & clear on why he is how he is. He's given the blood knight traits, the reasons to take vengeance on Vegeta, & the means, as well as his father manipulating him into doing his bidding, but for some reason goes after Goku, with the only reason seemingly being that Goku made him cry & the Saiyans made fun of him for it. Even in the Japanese version, that seems to be the only reason. The sequel adds to this in a significant way.

Next, Broly: The Second Coming:
Positives:
The animation is still decent, but lesser than the first.
At the very least, the pacing is improved by not being bogged down with unnecessary slowness after the first quarter.
The Family Kamehameha is nice, since it's a call-back to the Father-Son Kamehameha from Gohan's fight with Cell.

Middle of the road:
The dub is decent. Decently accurate, but not as much as the first. The dub also adds a slight plothole. Goten's cries when wanting an apple are what stir Broly to wake from his comatose state. In the Japanese, this made slightly more sense because Goten's voice by Masako Nozawa too & his cries would sound more like Goku's, unlike the dub where his dub voice sounds NOTHING like Goku's from when he was a kid. Neither of them. In English, it's a bit forced. Also, god, do these earlier dubs highlight why I prefer the later dubs on an acting level. Goten's voice is WAY too gruff here. Videl's voice is also a bit too rough-sounding. Kara Edwards' later portrayals of them in Kai, Super, & Battle of Gods, with her softer-sounding & more relaxed recordings are WAY less grating on the ears. Same with Laura Bailey's kid Trunks.

Negatives:
This movie is BORING! It trods along for the first quarter with that village tripe, then, when Broly shows up, it just becomes more torture porn. Even when Gohan shows up, it doesn't get any better. There's even a plot hole where Shenron doesn't show up when Goten tries to call him, but somehow hears his thoughts & brings Goku back. I'm assuming that this takes place AFTER Goku goes back to Otherworld, otherwise Goten wouldn't even know who he is, which COULD explain it, since the others used the Dragon Balls to bring back Vegeta's victims. Plus, Vegeta doesn't show up. But if THAT'S the case, where's BUU? Where's Piccolo? Why are Goten, Trunks, & Videl looking for the Dragon Balls at this point in time? Why are they going to make SELFISH wishes? Why is Gohan still on Earth when he was training with Supreme Kai & Kibito? Why don't Goten & Trunks use fusion? God, too many continuity snarls & questions to forgive here ON TOP of Broly getting to Earth making NO sense since Goku BLEW HIM UP with his One Punch Man punch & Broly getting rid of the only pod on the planet. I know Goku getting away from Namek, & Frieza surviving the explosion, were a stretches, but THIS takes it to a whole new level.
The plot is also nonexistent, as this movie doesn't even have a proper reason to exist other than it's another Broly film.
Now, this movie basically confirms the thought that Broly's rampage on Goku was caused by him crying when they were babies by Broly being awoken by Goten crying & Broly having a flashback to the animation from the first movie of Goku doing the same thing. THAT'S the only confirmation most people need that that's why Broly hates Goku. Again, brought up the leap in logic of why he'd remember that, so I'll just say that it only confirms something in the first movie that could be argued against, since at least it gave Broly a few more things, even IF they were base & he didn't have anything else to his character. He also has a seething hatred towards Goten, since he looks, & in the Japanese SOUNDS, exactly like Goku. THIS is probably the reason they put that flashback in here, since, otherwise, it wouldn't make any sense, but it ultimately defeats any argument anyone could make for Broly being just a Blood Knight.
This movie was also written & directed by the same 2 people as the first & it was released only a year after the first, so this makes this even more in the favor of detractors.

Ultimately, the character of Broly is a contrivance fueled by nothing but a bloodlust seemingly fueled by the need for vengeance not against Vegeta, which would make sense, but Goku for making him cry, which he shouldn't remember. He survived a stabbing because he has a better healing factor than Goku did at 2-3 at only a few days to weeks old even though Goku only had a head injury & HE was stabbed in the chest (there's a reason TFS altered that scene to make his skin impenetrable by a dagger, since it makes sense with his larger power as established with how Ki works in this series, the 2 aren't comparable). He's the only other villain than Cooler to get a sequel (2, in fact) to his original movie &, like Cooler before him, the sequels only serve to devalue him as he originally was, such as he was, & are of a lower quality than his original movie. The third movie isn't even worth talking about in this context because it's a CLONE of him & not the original, so he's not fueled by the same things as the original. All in all, I'm glad Toriyama rebooted the character. Given another chance in a more competent writer's hands, Broly HAS potential. And with a better told story, could even be great. From the word of mouth I've heard, that's what they did & I can't wait to watch this movie when it comes to home video.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Tian
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Tian » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:36 pm

The movie has been leaked in HD again...

But this time in Japanese 5.1 audio and it was accidentally leaked by Amazon UK.
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ShadowBardock89
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:12 am

Tian wrote:The movie has been leaked in HD again...

But this time in Japanese 5.1 audio and it was accidentally leaked by Amazon UK.
You would think they would tighten this up better by now, right?
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40715&start=20#p1439892
http://dba.bn-ent.net/character/barduck.html
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Baggie_Saiyan
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:57 am

ShadowBardock89 wrote:
Tian wrote:The movie has been leaked in HD again...

But this time in Japanese 5.1 audio and it was accidentally leaked by Amazon UK.
You would think they would tighten this up better by now, right?
The movie is just cursed to have things be leaked!

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alakazam^
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by alakazam^ » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:49 pm

The movie is so successful that they don't even care at this point :lol:

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FortuneSSJ
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by FortuneSSJ » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:49 pm

My first watch of this Movie was with a leaked version of the latin dub and my jaw was on the floor during the entire movie.
What a fantastic performance from everyone! As far as quality goes, it's may be my favourite dub.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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