Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Melkaniator]

Score: 6/10

The only thing that could've been spoiled for me was if Frieza was going to be dead or alive at the end of the movie (though I suspected he was gonna remain alive) the trailers did all the spoiling.

Again, the story was underwhelming, plus the 2nd half had horrible pacing, it seems put together in a rush.

Also, past Broly had something unique, he was brutally sadistic, he enjoyed fighting as a truer Saiya-jin should.

That is now lost, replaced by "I have my friend's ear on my waist".

Akira again forgot Shenron grants 3 wishes?

Frieza doesn't understand how immortality works, and the height wish issue was beyond retarded, everytime I think they can't surprise me more on how bad the writing is, they break their limits.

Animation and Broly's origin were clear improvements, I'll give them that.

[Doctor.]

Just saw the camrip of the movie. Thoughts: painfully mediocre script with issues in characterization, elevated by great visuals, soundtrack and overall presentation; so basically what I was expecting going into this. The movie is enjoyable but definitely not the best DB movie, not by a longshot (maybe top 5? Definitely not top 3). It's better than movie 8, but movie 8 does everything that this movie directly rips off better.

Extended thoughts:

Spoiler:

Minus: I've given my thoughts on Minus before, others have given their thoughts, everyone has their own opinion on Minus at this point. If you liked Minus before, you'll like the first section of this movie, if you didn't, then you won't. I'm on the camp that hated Minus and this segment certainly didn't change my mind on it. New scenes improved the story, such as Bardock deciphering Freeza's plan with more deliberation and thought, but it's still very barebones and doesn't explain why he's the only Saiyan with half of brain. Other new scenes don't add much, but they're still nice treats and enjoyable. Other new scenes I think are bad, like everything surrounding king Vegeta but I'll get to him later. The final scene would be touching, as it's presented quite well with a moving soundtrack, if it were about any other Saiyan besides Goku; as it stands, I can't feel anything other than apathy. The movie does well in camouflaging its bad or mediocre writing in all the pretty colors and instruments. All in all, the same as before.

Goku: He seemed off. It's par for the course in Super for Goku to be portrayed in a more childish manner, but I was expecting Toriyama's presence to get rid of that problem. Though admittedly it wasn't a big deal, and Goku is far from the worst character in this film, Goku acted too Luffy-like for my taste. Specifically in two scenes: the one where he's snorting into the spaceship window, and the one where he asks Freeza what 'inhospitable' means. Definitely not enough to get me upset, but offsetting all the same. What seems more troubling to me is the fact that Goku had no coherent character arc in this film. The film was advertised as a movie about 3 Saiyans: Goku, Vegeta and Broly; yet only Broly seems to get a character arc in this entire film. Goku gets something toward the end where he acknowledges that his name is Kakarot, but this doesn't feel earned considering the movie never or barely ever played with his thoughts on his past and heritage. What touched Goku about Broly that made him connect to his roots this much? The fact that he was a strong Saiyan? So is Vegeta. So is his son. So were Kale and Kefla one arc ago. Broly being stronger than Beerus doesn't seem like a justifiable excuse for this kind of character change. And even if it felt earned, this wouldn't present itself as a grand milestone in his character considering he acknowledged his ancestry all the way back in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs.

Vegeta & King Vegeta: Likewise, he's not bad at all, probably the least problematic character in the film, but again: he had no character arc in spite of being promoted as one of the main figures of the film. I liked that, for once, he wasn't a jobber and actually held the upper-hand. I didn't like, however, how he's pretty much forgotten once Goku steps up. Again, the movie was meant to tie these three together, why do Broly and Goku bond but not Broly and Vegeta as well? As for King Vegeta, I don't like his characterization here. He's too petty. One could say that's the point, and it makes it more believable for how Vegeta turned out eventually, but I liked the more subtle and ambiguous take M8 had on the character. There, it was impossible to tell whether he killed Broly out of jealousy or a genuine concern for the planet and his people; this movie makes it clear that it's for the former. Obviously not a big deal considering he's not a major character, but it's a trend of modern DB to dumb down and simplify character traits for the sake of making characters appear as two-dimensional as possible.

Freeza: I don't and can't like the gag. It makes no sense, from any standpoint. Freeza has never been self-conscious about his height, no character has ever mocked him for it, he can shapeshift at will and it's just a stupid retcon to imply that Freeza has always had this complex about his height in a universe where he was a dictator and people shat themselves when they saw him. I liked that it was juxtaposed with Bulma's wish, which is in-character, and that they explained why he no longer wants immortality in a way that makes sense; those are the redeeming factors to it. Outside of this, I liked his role in the movie though I find it hard to maintain my suspension of disbelief when you consider the fact that Freeza got pounded by Broly for an entire hour without dying, though I guess that speaks more about Freeza's resilience than anything else.

Gogeta: I liked that he won. I liked his personality, though I feel that now he is practically indistinguishable from Vegetto.

Whis: Once again, his presence in the movie removes any tension from it. I almost forgot that he was on the planet until the movie made it a point to remind me by having Whis effortlessly dodge Broly's attacks and laugh in his face. Just stop writing a serious story with Whis in the room, please, Toriyama. This cop-out that "the GoDs and angels are neutral!" clearly isn't fooling anybody when they've intervened in mortal affairs countless times before.

Paragus: First of all, fuck that little Saiyan Paragus brought with him to Vampa. He's another cowardly, meek Saiyan and I'm getting tired of them. Frankly, he wouldn't be a problem as an exception to the rule, only if he hadn't come after countless other Saiyans cut from the same cloth. Secondly, Paragus was dumbed down as expected. While you could argue that he's largely the same character as before, the way he's portrayed is definitely different. He's more cowardly here, while he had complete composure during the original film until the last moment; Broly loses his cool and he's fighting Goku and here's Paragus half a mile away shitting his pants. Meanwhile, in the original film, Broly transformed into the legendary Super Saiyan while on a doomed planet and he still managed to keep himself under control. They also, as expected, took away the scenes that showed Paragus being a good father to Broly. Even though you can headcanon that the two must have bonded during their years for Broly to care so much about his father, the fact that Cheerai constantly demonizes Paragus as never having cared for Broly (and the movie implying as much from the moment Paragus leaves planet Vegeta) as anything more than a tool doesn't help matters; at least the original movie provided scenes, as I have posted in this thread, that showcased how Paragus cared for Broly in a very human, fatherly way, which ultimately makes the way he sees Broly later on in the film that much more tragic and powerful.

Broly: As for Broly, I can't really say he's better or worse than the original counterpart. He's different. I was afraid the movie was going to be melodramatic regarding the portrayal of his tragic backstory, but it was relatively subdued, with the exception of some of Cheerai's dialogue (she was the worst part of the film, don't @ me; generic, predictable and annoying archetype with a fundamentally broken view of characters like Goku, Broly and Paragus). I like his new form, the idea of fusing Oozaru and the Saiyan form isn't new, but it's portrayed in a cool, unique way here. I liked that the impetus for the Super Saiyan transformation actually has some weight to it this time. Couple of issues though: there's obviously an out-of-universe reason for Broly never having transformed into Super Saiyan - that being dramatic tension - but where's the in-universe reason? Goten and Trunks went Super Saiyan by playing doctor in their mum's backyard and you're telling me Broly never transformed while deserted on a hostile planet with a belligerent father? He's more than strong enough. Toriyama, you can't make Super Saiyan a joke and then backpedal and say that it's actually a big deal even though the way it has been achieved by other Saiyans completely breaks its importance in the lore. Why not just have Broly's big transformation sequence be LSS? LSS comes as part of a CGI sequence - you'd miss the transformation if you blinked. Furthermore, the story never explains what it is or how Broly can use it. So what's the need for Super Saiyan? Just make him go LSS once Paragus dies.

The fighting: It was great, it was an eye-feast but I find the movie had too much of it and too little story and themes very shallowly developed in a movie that pretended to address big questions like "what's the meaning of strength?" and connect the "destiny" of three different Saiyans together. They met, they fought, and then Goku and Broly became friends. That's what happened. Goku wants to get stronger because duh, he's Goku; Vegeta wants to get stronger because Freeza and Goku; and Broly wants to get stronger because... he doesn't, he doesn't like to fight even though he's a Saiyan. Sigh, disappointing. Obviously I wasn't expecting some sort of psychoanalysis of why Goku, Vegeta and Broly fight, but I was expecting something of substance in a movie that advertised itself as addressing some pretty big stuff.

Also Shenron grants 3 wishes, get it right.

The movie is pretty much all over the place, both in terms of themes and characterization. I can only assume that it's because a lot of it was cut for the final release, be it from the script or the actual finished, animated product, as you can see in some scenes that there's something missing; some scenes lose impact because of how rushed they are (Bardock's final stand comes to mind as mentioned). Again, there's nothing really offensive here outside of the predictably offensive Minus stuff. It's just very bland and sterile but hidden nicely by good presentation.

[jjgp1112]

Is that a serious question or are you trying to be polemical?

It's a legitimate question. There's not much to him. He hates KAKAROTOOO . He likes to destroy and murder. Dassit.

Old Broly didn't want to be left alone. If Paragus didn't have that ring controlling his emotions he'd be off rampaging and destroying shit. New Broly is more like an uncivilized Gohan

"Edgy one-liners?" What the hell is this even?

In M8 he had a fleshed-out personality and a cruel, sadistic nature as marked by his interactions with the fighters and his father.

In M10 all he says is "Kakarotto!" and one other line to Gohan.

You are reducing the analysis through a stereotypical fandom generalization. I can hardly blame Cetra for not taking you seriously. Might as well reduce Goku's character to "Fight strong guys! Eat food! Bad father." Or Vegeta's character to "Surpass Goku! Muh Bulma! He likes to train." Yep, not much to Goku or Vegeta either when you reduce them like that.

M10 Broly is a caricature of his M8 personality. In M8 there is very little to no indication that he specifically hates Goku, as that happens only in M10 and for good reason.

Goku and Vegeta demonstrate a lot more to their characters than their base personality traits. Broly, at absolutely no point in Movie 8, demonstrates any personality trait other than being a complete psycho. Even in his normal form, he's virtually silent and then the flashbacks reveal that it's just Paragus putting his mood in check and he'd otherwise be...rampaging.

In Movie 8, he blows up some planets, beats our heroes up, and laughs about it. There's not much there. I'm describing it as flatly as possible because frankly, that's how it comes off. It's certainly entertaining, don't get me wrong, but layered it is not.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

Hey guys I was wondering if we know the initial budget of this movie ?

[BrolyKale]

You guys still forget that in M8 Broly base form didn't have much screentime compared to the new movie, we can see him talk properly when he sleeps and asks his father what he's up to (without Paragus controlling him), so he can be calm when he wants.

[Shounen]

Hey guys I was wondering if we know the initial budget of this movie ?

No, It is not public information.

[Grimlock]

Oh well. I mean, it's cool (on paper) a counterpart to Sozoshins but did they really need to be that strong? Also, as I'm always saying, do Beerus and Whis really need to be on Earth from now on? They have never spent so much time there and now, suddenly, they can't seem to leave it for some reason, and that is bizarre. Shouldn't Beerus be sleeping by now and not to wake for Whis knows how long?

I assume a great part of the lack of tension is because of those two that randomly appeared out of nowhere with no prior mention of their existence and such. So far, they have not had business whatsoever with the events ever since Movie 14. Now that Beerus already fought his long-awaited opponent, the Super Saiyan God, he doesn't have more role to play and it doesn't seem like Toriyama wants to expand stuff (like you know.... Coming up with an enemy that can pose a threat to the Megaverse so that Hakaishins can fight against). In short, it's time for Beerus (and probably Whis) to leave, he already served his purpose.

[SuperSaiyanSmoke]

Just saw the movie, my thoughts are below & anyone wanting to stay spoiler free, don't read ahead!

Overall rating: 8.5/10 (It's GREAT!)

>>DB Minus + Vampa
I feel the pacing is a tad fast, and like the other users have posted, the movie has noticeable scenes feel gutted out (Bardock's scene with the death ball). Though, I have a feeling that we have too much of the TV movie in our mind which is influencing our perspective. (Bardock's argument and attack at Frieza in space). I think they missed out on the opportunity of showing how Broly get's along with Paragus as a child, that would have given us more depth into his character.

>> First encounter
I wanted MORE interaction between Vegeta & Paragus, since they are the only two saiyan's that thoroughly understand their own culture. I LOVED the scene where Vegeta transforms into a Super Saiyan and Paragus is shocked, I wanted them interact more regarding this, It would be have been even cooler if Super Saiyan God was explained to Paragus. I wanted him to feel like he knew absolutely nothing about the greatness of his race and just being a Super Saiyan was not Legendary. The scene where Vegeta starts to slowly access Super Saiyan (Glow only) while his strength increases is also amazing! After all the shit Super pulled, They're giving the respect back to just (In Piccolo's words from BOG) a "Mere Super Saiyan".

>>Ikari Broly
I think this is a step in the right direction going forwards, It brings something new to the table and I do not see this as a sign of Super Saiyan 4. I think the Ikari form is final and there won't be an evolution to it like SSJ4. This however did subtly remind me of Gohan before TOP, where him & Piccolo were discussing to find a new way to power up, other than Super Saiyan.

>>Frieza
I didn't mind his gag, and I don't understand why people hate this about Frieza now. I don't mind the direction the character is going in. Frieza has been utterly shamed by Goku, He has lost his pride, respect, position and Goku has de-clothed him, humiliated him, regularly smack's his tushy (in public), and has desensitized his character in front of the whole universe and us the audience. There is nothing Frieza can bring to the table, whatever chance he had to be as menacing as before, he lost during the TOP arc, where he was.. an anti hero you can say.

>>Broly
A huge improvement over non-canon M8 Broly. I felt for him throughout the whole movie and that is what counts. I think we all established a connection with him. The M8 Broly was just a "villain" that was a Saiyan who had as much depth as Kid Buu. Frieza, Cell are far superior to M8 Broly. I am happy to see his character being re-written, while retaining his physique and hulk-ness from M8. I also liked how they logically explained his mutancy.

>> Going forwards
1. Interesting to see how Goku trains up Broly, what transformations he teaches him and if he can somehow learn Ikari from Broly.
2. I think it is time we either visit Planet Sadala, however I feel like Planet Vegeta should be revived, Sadala saiyan's are goody two shoes, I want the evil saiyan's back and I want Vegeta to be their Jesus.
3. Interaction needed between Kakarot & his family (Yes, includes Raditz the asshole) and also between King Vegeta III & Prince Vegeta IV.

Sigh.. I want more DB content, When is super returning?!!

[zarmack]

Just saw the camrip of the movie. Thoughts: painfully mediocre script with issues in characterization, elevated by great visuals, soundtrack and overall presentation; so basically what I was expecting going into this. The movie is enjoyable but definitely not the best DB movie, not by a longshot (maybe top 5? Definitely not top 3). It's better than movie 8, but movie 8 does everything that this movie directly rips off better.

Extended thoughts:

Spoiler:

Minus: I've given my thoughts on Minus before, others have given their thoughts, everyone has their own opinion on Minus at this point. If you liked Minus before, you'll like the first section of this movie, if you didn't, then you won't. I'm on the camp that hated Minus and this segment certainly didn't change my mind on it. New scenes improved the story, such as Bardock deciphering Freeza's plan with more deliberation and thought, but it's still very barebones and doesn't explain why he's the only Saiyan with half of brain. Other new scenes don't add much, but they're still nice treats and enjoyable. Other new scenes I think are bad, like everything surrounding king Vegeta but I'll get to him later. The final scene would be touching, as it's presented quite well with a moving soundtrack, if it were about any other Saiyan besides Goku; as it stands, I can't feel anything other than apathy. The movie does well in camouflaging its bad or mediocre writing in all the pretty colors and instruments. All in all, the same as before.

Goku: He seemed off. It's par for the course in Super for Goku to be portrayed in a more childish manner, but I was expecting Toriyama's presence to get rid of that problem. Though admittedly it wasn't a big deal, and Goku is far from the worst character in this film, Goku acted too Luffy-like for my taste. Specifically in two scenes: the one where he's snorting into the spaceship window, and the one where he asks Freeza what 'inhospitable' means. Definitely not enough to get me upset, but offsetting all the same. What seems more troubling to me is the fact that Goku had no coherent character arc in this film. The film was advertised as a movie about 3 Saiyans: Goku, Vegeta and Broly; yet only Broly seems to get a character arc in this entire film. Goku gets something toward the end where he acknowledges that his name is Kakarot, but this doesn't feel earned considering the movie never or barely ever played with his thoughts on his past and heritage. What touched Goku about Broly that made him connect to his roots this much? The fact that he was a strong Saiyan? So is Vegeta. So is his son. So were Kale and Kefla one arc ago. Broly being stronger than Beerus doesn't seem like a justifiable excuse for this kind of character change. And even if it felt earned, this wouldn't present itself as a grand milestone in his character considering he acknowledged his ancestry all the way back in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs.

Vegeta & King Vegeta: Likewise, he's not bad at all, probably the least problematic character in the film, but again: he had no character arc in spite of being promoted as one of the main figures of the film. I liked that, for once, he wasn't a jobber and actually held the upper-hand. I didn't like, however, how he's pretty much forgotten once Goku steps up. Again, the movie was meant to tie these three together, why do Broly and Goku bond but not Broly and Vegeta as well? As for King Vegeta, I don't like his characterization here. He's too petty. One could say that's the point, and it makes it more believable for how Vegeta turned out eventually, but I liked the more subtle and ambiguous take M8 had on the character. There, it was impossible to tell whether he killed Broly out of jealousy or a genuine concern for the planet and his people; this movie makes it clear that it's for the former. Obviously not a big deal considering he's not a major character, but it's a trend of modern DB to dumb down and simplify character traits for the sake of making characters appear as two-dimensional as possible.

Freeza: I don't and can't like the gag. It makes no sense, from any standpoint. Freeza has never been self-conscious about his height, no character has ever mocked him for it, he can shapeshift at will and it's just a stupid retcon to imply that Freeza has always had this complex about his height in a universe where he was a dictator and people shat themselves when they saw him. I liked that it was juxtaposed with Bulma's wish, which is in-character, and that they explained why he no longer wants immortality in a way that makes sense; those are the redeeming factors to it. Outside of this, I liked his role in the movie though I find it hard to maintain my suspension of disbelief when you consider the fact that Freeza got pounded by Broly for an entire hour without dying, though I guess that speaks more about Freeza's resilience than anything else.

Gogeta: I liked that he won. I liked his personality, though I feel that now he is practically indistinguishable from Vegetto.

Whis: Once again, his presence in the movie removes any tension from it. I almost forgot that he was on the planet until the movie made it a point to remind me by having Whis effortlessly dodge Broly's attacks and laugh in his face. Just stop writing a serious story with Whis in the room, please, Toriyama. This cop-out that "the GoDs and angels are neutral!" clearly isn't fooling anybody when they've intervened in mortal affairs countless times before.

Paragus: First of all, fuck that little Saiyan Paragus brought with him to Vampa. He's another cowardly, meek Saiyan and I'm getting tired of them. Frankly, he wouldn't be a problem as an exception to the rule, only if he hadn't come after countless other Saiyans cut from the same cloth. Secondly, Paragus was dumbed down as expected. While you could argue that he's largely the same character as before, the way he's portrayed is definitely different. He's more cowardly here, while he had complete composure during the original film until the last moment; Broly loses his cool and he's fighting Goku and here's Paragus half a mile away shitting his pants. Meanwhile, in the original film, Broly transformed into the legendary Super Saiyan while on a doomed planet and he still managed to keep himself under control. They also, as expected, took away the scenes that showed Paragus being a good father to Broly. Even though you can headcanon that the two must have bonded during their years for Broly to care so much about his father, the fact that Cheerai constantly demonizes Paragus as never having cared for Broly (and the movie implying as much from the moment Paragus leaves planet Vegeta) as anything more than a tool doesn't help matters; at least the original movie provided scenes, as I have posted in this thread, that showcased how Paragus cared for Broly in a very human, fatherly way, which ultimately makes the way he sees Broly later on in the film that much more tragic and powerful.

Broly: As for Broly, I can't really say he's better or worse than the original counterpart. He's different. I was afraid the movie was going to be melodramatic regarding the portrayal of his tragic backstory, but it was relatively subdued, with the exception of some of Cheerai's dialogue (she was the worst part of the film, don't @ me; generic, predictable and annoying archetype with a fundamentally broken view of characters like Goku, Broly and Paragus). I like his new form, the idea of fusing Oozaru and the Saiyan form isn't new, but it's portrayed in a cool, unique way here. I liked that the impetus for the Super Saiyan transformation actually has some weight to it this time. Couple of issues though: there's obviously an out-of-universe reason for Broly never having transformed into Super Saiyan - that being dramatic tension - but where's the in-universe reason? Goten and Trunks went Super Saiyan by playing doctor in their mum's backyard and you're telling me Broly never transformed while deserted on a hostile planet with a belligerent father? He's more than strong enough. Toriyama, you can't make Super Saiyan a joke and then backpedal and say that it's actually a big deal even though the way it has been achieved by other Saiyans completely breaks its importance in the lore. Why not just have Broly's big transformation sequence be LSS? LSS comes as part of a CGI sequence - you'd miss the transformation if you blinked. Furthermore, the story never explains what it is or how Broly can use it. So what's the need for Super Saiyan? Just make him go LSS once Paragus dies.

The fighting: It was great, it was an eye-feast but I find the movie had too much of it and too little story and themes very shallowly developed in a movie that pretended to address big questions like "what's the meaning of strength?" and connect the "destiny" of three different Saiyans together. They met, they fought, and then Goku and Broly became friends. That's what happened. Goku wants to get stronger because duh, he's Goku; Vegeta wants to get stronger because Freeza and Goku; and Broly wants to get stronger because... he doesn't, he doesn't like to fight even though he's a Saiyan. Sigh, disappointing. Obviously I wasn't expecting some sort of psychoanalysis of why Goku, Vegeta and Broly fight, but I was expecting something of substance in a movie that advertised itself as addressing some pretty big stuff.

Also Shenron grants 3 wishes, get it right.

The movie is pretty much all over the place, both in terms of themes and characterization. I can only assume that it's because a lot of it was cut for the final release, be it from the script or the actual finished, animated product, as you can see in some scenes that there's something missing; some scenes lose impact because of how rushed they are (Bardock's final stand comes to mind as mentioned). Again, there's nothing really offensive here outside of the predictably offensive Minus stuff. It's just very bland and sterile but hidden nicely by good presentation.

You basically said everything I was gonna say and hit the nail on the head. Great post

[dbzfan7]

Just saw the camrip of the movie. Thoughts: painfully mediocre script with issues in characterization, elevated by great visuals, soundtrack and overall presentation; so basically what I was expecting going into this. The movie is enjoyable but definitely not the best DB movie, not by a longshot (maybe top 5? Definitely not top 3). It's better than movie 8, but movie 8 does everything that this movie directly rips off better.

Extended thoughts:

Spoiler:

Minus: I've given my thoughts on Minus before, others have given their thoughts, everyone has their own opinion on Minus at this point. If you liked Minus before, you'll like the first section of this movie, if you didn't, then you won't. I'm on the camp that hated Minus and this segment certainly didn't change my mind on it. New scenes improved the story, such as Bardock deciphering Freeza's plan with more deliberation and thought, but it's still very barebones and doesn't explain why he's the only Saiyan with half of brain. Other new scenes don't add much, but they're still nice treats and enjoyable. Other new scenes I think are bad, like everything surrounding king Vegeta but I'll get to him later. The final scene would be touching, as it's presented quite well with a moving soundtrack, if it were about any other Saiyan besides Goku; as it stands, I can't feel anything other than apathy. The movie does well in camouflaging its bad or mediocre writing in all the pretty colors and instruments. All in all, the same as before.

Goku: He seemed off. It's par for the course in Super for Goku to be portrayed in a more childish manner, but I was expecting Toriyama's presence to get rid of that problem. Though admittedly it wasn't a big deal, and Goku is far from the worst character in this film, Goku acted too Luffy-like for my taste. Specifically in two scenes: the one where he's snorting into the spaceship window, and the one where he asks Freeza what 'inhospitable' means. Definitely not enough to get me upset, but offsetting all the same. What seems more troubling to me is the fact that Goku had no coherent character arc in this film. The film was advertised as a movie about 3 Saiyans: Goku, Vegeta and Broly; yet only Broly seems to get a character arc in this entire film. Goku gets something toward the end where he acknowledges that his name is Kakarot, but this doesn't feel earned considering the movie never or barely ever played with his thoughts on his past and heritage. What touched Goku about Broly that made him connect to his roots this much? The fact that he was a strong Saiyan? So is Vegeta. So is his son. So were Kale and Kefla one arc ago. Broly being stronger than Beerus doesn't seem like a justifiable excuse for this kind of character change. And even if it felt earned, this wouldn't present itself as a grand milestone in his character considering he acknowledged his ancestry all the way back in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs.

Vegeta & King Vegeta: Likewise, he's not bad at all, probably the least problematic character in the film, but again: he had no character arc in spite of being promoted as one of the main figures of the film. I liked that, for once, he wasn't a jobber and actually held the upper-hand. I didn't like, however, how he's pretty much forgotten once Goku steps up. Again, the movie was meant to tie these three together, why do Broly and Goku bond but not Broly and Vegeta as well? As for King Vegeta, I don't like his characterization here. He's too petty. One could say that's the point, and it makes it more believable for how Vegeta turned out eventually, but I liked the more subtle and ambiguous take M8 had on the character. There, it was impossible to tell whether he killed Broly out of jealousy or a genuine concern for the planet and his people; this movie makes it clear that it's for the former. Obviously not a big deal considering he's not a major character, but it's a trend of modern DB to dumb down and simplify character traits for the sake of making characters appear as two-dimensional as possible.

Freeza: I don't and can't like the gag. It makes no sense, from any standpoint. Freeza has never been self-conscious about his height, no character has ever mocked him for it, he can shapeshift at will and it's just a stupid retcon to imply that Freeza has always had this complex about his height in a universe where he was a dictator and people shat themselves when they saw him. I liked that it was juxtaposed with Bulma's wish, which is in-character, and that they explained why he no longer wants immortality in a way that makes sense; those are the redeeming factors to it. Outside of this, I liked his role in the movie though I find it hard to maintain my suspension of disbelief when you consider the fact that Freeza got pounded by Broly for an entire hour without dying, though I guess that speaks more about Freeza's resilience than anything else.

Gogeta: I liked that he won. I liked his personality, though I feel that now he is practically indistinguishable from Vegetto.

Whis: Once again, his presence in the movie removes any tension from it. I almost forgot that he was on the planet until the movie made it a point to remind me by having Whis effortlessly dodge Broly's attacks and laugh in his face. Just stop writing a serious story with Whis in the room, please, Toriyama. This cop-out that "the GoDs and angels are neutral!" clearly isn't fooling anybody when they've intervened in mortal affairs countless times before.

Paragus: First of all, fuck that little Saiyan Paragus brought with him to Vampa. He's another cowardly, meek Saiyan and I'm getting tired of them. Frankly, he wouldn't be a problem as an exception to the rule, only if he hadn't come after countless other Saiyans cut from the same cloth. Secondly, Paragus was dumbed down as expected. While you could argue that he's largely the same character as before, the way he's portrayed is definitely different. He's more cowardly here, while he had complete composure during the original film until the last moment; Broly loses his cool and he's fighting Goku and here's Paragus half a mile away shitting his pants. Meanwhile, in the original film, Broly transformed into the legendary Super Saiyan while on a doomed planet and he still managed to keep himself under control. They also, as expected, took away the scenes that showed Paragus being a good father to Broly. Even though you can headcanon that the two must have bonded during their years for Broly to care so much about his father, the fact that Cheerai constantly demonizes Paragus as never having cared for Broly (and the movie implying as much from the moment Paragus leaves planet Vegeta) as anything more than a tool doesn't help matters; at least the original movie provided scenes, as I have posted in this thread, that showcased how Paragus cared for Broly in a very human, fatherly way, which ultimately makes the way he sees Broly later on in the film that much more tragic and powerful.

Broly: As for Broly, I can't really say he's better or worse than the original counterpart. He's different. I was afraid the movie was going to be melodramatic regarding the portrayal of his tragic backstory, but it was relatively subdued, with the exception of some of Cheerai's dialogue (she was the worst part of the film, don't @ me; generic, predictable and annoying archetype with a fundamentally broken view of characters like Goku, Broly and Paragus). I like his new form, the idea of fusing Oozaru and the Saiyan form isn't new, but it's portrayed in a cool, unique way here. I liked that the impetus for the Super Saiyan transformation actually has some weight to it this time. Couple of issues though: there's obviously an out-of-universe reason for Broly never having transformed into Super Saiyan - that being dramatic tension - but where's the in-universe reason? Goten and Trunks went Super Saiyan by playing doctor in their mum's backyard and you're telling me Broly never transformed while deserted on a hostile planet with a belligerent father? He's more than strong enough. Toriyama, you can't make Super Saiyan a joke and then backpedal and say that it's actually a big deal even though the way it has been achieved by other Saiyans completely breaks its importance in the lore. Why not just have Broly's big transformation sequence be LSS? LSS comes as part of a CGI sequence - you'd miss the transformation if you blinked. Furthermore, the story never explains what it is or how Broly can use it. So what's the need for Super Saiyan? Just make him go LSS once Paragus dies.

The fighting: It was great, it was an eye-feast but I find the movie had too much of it and too little story and themes very shallowly developed in a movie that pretended to address big questions like "what's the meaning of strength?" and connect the "destiny" of three different Saiyans together. They met, they fought, and then Goku and Broly became friends. That's what happened. Goku wants to get stronger because duh, he's Goku; Vegeta wants to get stronger because Freeza and Goku; and Broly wants to get stronger because... he doesn't, he doesn't like to fight even though he's a Saiyan. Sigh, disappointing. Obviously I wasn't expecting some sort of psychoanalysis of why Goku, Vegeta and Broly fight, but I was expecting something of substance in a movie that advertised itself as addressing some pretty big stuff.

Also Shenron grants 3 wishes, get it right.

The movie is pretty much all over the place, both in terms of themes and characterization. I can only assume that it's because a lot of it was cut for the final release, be it from the script or the actual finished, animated product, as you can see in some scenes that there's something missing; some scenes lose impact because of how rushed they are (Bardock's final stand comes to mind as mentioned). Again, there's nothing really offensive here outside of the predictably offensive Minus stuff. It's just very bland and sterile but hidden nicely by good presentation.

Always love your posts.

It really does feel like there was no reason to make this saiyan Broly, other than to capitalize on Broly's popularity. I feel like we could mostly beat for beat tell the same story but without anyone called Broly or Paragus.

I also forget, why does this Broly get angry and mad? Past Broly was already insane as is, but this one seems to just get angry? I'm genuinely asking if I missed something cause I really feel like I missed it and need someone to remind me what it is.

[Doctor.]

I also forget, why does this Broly get angry and mad? Past Broly was already insane as is, but this one seems to just get angry? I'm genuinely asking if I missed something cause I really feel like I missed it and need someone to remind me what it is.

Yeah, this one apparently just gets mad sometimes for no reason. It's implied because he was born with a high battle power and can't control that Ikari form of his (basically the same as old Broly, but replace LSS with Ikari). Then he goes SS once Freeza kills Paragus and goes LSS for... no reason.

And I wonder how Paragus managed to create a device capable of controlling a rampaging Broly from (presumably) a ship full of scraps. I guess he's the brilliant scientist.

[SuperSaiyanSmoke]

I also forget, why does this Broly get angry and mad? Past Broly was already insane as is, but this one seems to just get angry? I'm genuinely asking if I missed something cause I really feel like I missed it and need someone to remind me what it is.

Yeah, this one apparently just gets mad sometimes for no reason. It's implied because he was born with a high battle power and can't control that Ikari form of his (basically the same as old Broly, but replace LSS with Ikari). Then he goes SS once Freeza kills Paragus and goes LSS for... no reason.

And I wonder how Paragus managed to create a device capable of controlling a rampaging Broly from (presumably) a ship full of scraps. I guess he's the brilliant scientist.

I believe LSSJ is Super Saiyan with IKARI.

Base form = White aura
Base with ikari = Green aura
Super Saiyan = Yellow
Legendary Super Saiyan = Yellow and Green aura

Green = Ikari

[GTx10]

Now that I've seen the movie, (camera rip on YouTube) I have the following feelings.

Spoiler:

So the Scouter Scope was introduced merely as a way for Paragus to search for Broly without getting caught by Freeza's forces? Okay I guess.

King Vegeta looks ugly and no where near as "cool" looking as his Movie 8 counterpart. (Or the anime counterpart) So Paragus and Beet have trouble fighting the spiders? Truly "low class scum."
Bardock is boring and I accept DB Minus. Bulma's new JPN actress sounds so much like "original Bulma" that it's scary and wonderful. (In a good way) Beerus is the perfect baby sitter and Bulla is in safe hands with him. Hey look it's Neiz's (1st Cooler movie) father and hot green alien girl.
Paragus is a dick just like his Movie 8 counterpart. Broly is Goku, Neiz's dad is Oolong and hot green girl is Bulma and I am okay with that. Freeza soldiers who can't fly? No wonder Freeza killed off his men in RF.
Steam coming out of Son's nose is adorable and Holy Moly Takahashi's art is sexy! Vegeta vs Broly is stunning even though Vegeta is absolutely pointless in this film. Yeah… Goku bouncing up and down makes sense (Getting them muscles ready and what not) but looks goofy and out of place within its context. SS1 sure gets a lot of love in this movie huh?
Damn, that SS1 into SSGod transition was beautiful, also boy does SSGod get a lot of love in this movie. So while SSGod Son Goku is lying in the snow mind talking to Piccolo what the fu@k is Vegeta doing? God he's pointless in this film. At least Yamucha gives exposition, Vegeta is useless.
The camera sure likes to focus on hot, green girl's butt a lot, I ain't mad about it though.I saw that slipt second Ultra Instinct movie, I saw it. So not going to lie, SSBlue Goku and Vegeta VS Rage/SS1 Broly is underwhelming and oh God the "Monkey Freeza" is back! Tate may animate well but his drawings/models look terrible. It's like looking at the end of the RF arc in Super all over again.
Hey look it's Gogeta, and… okay he's neat. This film really makes SS1 look badass and I thought SSBlue was the new "SS1."

Spoiler:

So SS1 Broly just buffs up and BOOM! "Full Power" Broly is born, that was underwhelming.

Oh look it's SSBlue Gogeta, neat. What the fu@k is happening on screen right now?! It looks cool but I can't tell what's happening because it's a lot of "pew-pew and zoom-zoom."

Spoiler:

Freeza buddy, how can you not see the big ass green dragon in the sky? Gogeta Blue charges up a Kamehameha and his eyes freak out much like Broly's did when he snapped. Don't like that. Oh God "FP" Broly with sudden pupils is sudden and terrifying.
So does Freeza conquer worlds as a way of coping for his losses? "New Bulma" I mean hot, green girl looks better in the uniform. Son Goku called himself "Kakarot," and it made me tingle.

So I'm mixed with this film. The prologue is disjointed, Broly, hot, green girl, Neiz's dad scenes are cute. Base/Rage Broly VS Base/SS1/SSGod Vegeta and Goku are superb and SSBlue Goku/Vegeta/Gogeta VS SS1/FP Broly is a mix of ugly and sensory overload. The ending is sweet, so I like parts of the film and feel indifferent to other parts. Somebody tell me what to feel!

If Vegeta is pointless in the film then so is Goku, since he does essentially no better than him fight-wise nor plot-wise in the movie.

I agree but since I like Son Goku more than Vegeta I am biased. But Goku does step in to fight completely disregarding Vegeta's current brawl with Broly. Goku isn't helping he is flat out taking over while Vegeta Blue steps in only when Goku struggles against SS1 Broly. It's clear that Son has a better time of handling Broly than Vegeta does.
It sort of reminds me of SS4 Goku and Vegeta VS. Omega Shenron, Goku lasts much longer than SS4 Vegeta who powers down after much less fighting time.

[Artorias]

Quick question for anyone that's seen the film or knows the answer. Is the SSB fight mostly CG? It seems like most of the footage of that fight in the trailers is CG, and I also haven't really heard many people bring it up as a highlight of the film, and I assumed that was because it was mostly CG and therefor didn't look as good as the rest. Is this true? Or did they just choose for whatever reason not to show as much of that fight in the trailers?

[Rakurai]

Goku and Vegeta demonstrate a lot more to their characters than their base personality traits. Broly, at absolutely no point in Movie 8, demonstrates any personality trait other than being a complete psycho. Even in his normal form, he's virtually silent and then the flashbacks reveal that it's just Paragus putting his mood in check and he'd otherwise be...rampaging.

In Movie 8, he blows up some planets, beats our heroes up, and laughs about it. There's not much there. I'm describing it as flatly as possible because frankly, that's how it comes off. It's certainly entertaining, don't get me wrong, but layered it is not.

You are being inherently dishonest. I literally just described to you M8 Broly's personality. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can reduce it and then dismiss it. Frieza was a psycho too you know? You say edgy one-liners, I can give you rational dialogue in which Broly shows off his cruel & sadistic disposition characteristic of the Legendary Super Saiyan that Vegeta described in the anime:

*Laughs* "If you guys don't demonstrate the will to fight me, I will just destroy the entire planet!"

To the green little aliens: "You've gazed at the stars, wishing someday to return there, haven't you?" *Proceeds to blow up their planet*

"Kakarotto, is your son dear to you?" *Proceeds to trash Gohan*

"If you didn't resist like good little boys you wouldn't meet with such a painful death! I'll give every credit for being every bit Saiyan."

To Paragus: "Where do you think you're going? In a single-seated pod?" *Proceeds to kill his own father*

This is far and wide a difference in terms of characterization than his M10 self, whose majority dialogue was Kakarotto. So please do some research into the subject you are talking about instead of latching on to fan misconceptions and generalizations like some kind of sheep.

[Helios518]

After seeing the movie, I can definitely say that an anime retelling will do this arc a huge favor in the pacing department. This is coming from someone that thought there would be no need for one for this movie.

[Doctor.]

Quick question for anyone that's seen the film or knows the answer. Is the SSB fight mostly CG? It seems like most of the footage of that fight in the trailers is CG, and I also haven't really heard many people bring it up as a highlight of the film, and I assumed that was because it was mostly CG and therefor didn't look as good as the rest. Is this true? Or did they just choose for whatever reason not to show as much of that fight in the trailers?

SSB Goku and Vegeta vs Broly is mostly CG with one animated scene of SSB Goku vs Broly, Gogeta is mostly animated with one CG scene.

[SuperSaiyanSmoke]

Goku and Vegeta demonstrate a lot more to their characters than their base personality traits. Broly, at absolutely no point in Movie 8, demonstrates any personality trait other than being a complete psycho. Even in his normal form, he's virtually silent and then the flashbacks reveal that it's just Paragus putting his mood in check and he'd otherwise be...rampaging.

In Movie 8, he blows up some planets, beats our heroes up, and laughs about it. There's not much there. I'm describing it as flatly as possible because frankly, that's how it comes off. It's certainly entertaining, don't get me wrong, but layered it is not.

You are being inherently dishonest. I literally just described to you M8 Broly's personality. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can reduce it and then dismiss it. Frieza was a psycho too you know? You say edgy one-liners, I can give you rational dialogue in which Broly shows off his cruel & sadistic disposition characteristic of the Legendary Super Saiyan that Vegeta described in the anime:

*Laughs* "If you guys don't demonstrate the will to fight me, I will just destroy the entire planet!"

To the green little aliens: "You've gazed at the stars, wishing someday to return there, haven't you? *Proceeds to blow up their planet*

"Kakarotto, is your son dear to you?" *Proceeds to trash Gohan*

"If you didn't resist like good little boys you wouldn't meet with such a painful death! I'll give every credit for being every bit Saiyan."

To Paragus: "Where do you think you're going? In a single-seated pod?" *Proceeds to kill his own father*

This is far and wide a difference in terms of characterization than his M10 self. So please do some research into the subject you are talking about instead of latching on to fan misconceptions and generalizations like some kind of sheep.

*Yawns* But that Broly died years ago... let your influence of him die too! The new broly is here to stay.

[SuperSaiyanSmoke]

After seeing the movie, I can definitely say that an anime retelling will do this arc a huge favor in the pacing department. This is coming from someone that thought there would be no need for one for this movie.

Seconded, personally i hated the re-tellings.

[Rakurai]

*Yawns* But that Broly died years ago... let your influence of him die too! The new broly is here to stay.

Say that about the new Bardock to the rest of the fandom and see what the reaction would be.

Also the new Broly is boring to me and brings nothing new to the series. I have more interest in Kale than DBS Broly at this point.