Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[WittyUsername]

That is what we are told in the story. Yes. But In-Universe it would just seem that convincing Whis would be their best/easiest option to win. There needs to be a way to make sure Whis absolutely cannot interfere that way we know certain that they have to find a way to beat him themselves.

Whis is neutral. He cannot fight. He says he cannot fight. Do you want him to say it again? Whis fighting has never been an option.

Exactly. We have seen how Angels do not give a shit about their Gods or other mortals. Not even Whis does, even though it seems like he has grown fond of Goku and co. In RoF, Beerus agreed to time being reversed in Goku’s favor. So yeah, Beerus cares about them and he would probably risk his life to save Goku and Vegeta, even if he would act like he did that because he wanted a good fight.
Toriyama even corrected Toyotaro, who wanted to depict Belmod and Marcarita as lovers, to keep the Angels completely neutral to everything and everyone. Even Daishinkan is completely neutral. He just follows Zeno’s orders as his offsprings do with their respective Hakaishins.

The fact that angels are supposed to be neutral only serves to make me question why exactly Toei depicted Mojito the way they did. His manga counterpart simply sighed in response to Universe 9 getting erased, while his anime counterpart gave a weirdly ominous smirk that made many people believe he was evil.

[Bergamo]

Whis is neutral. He cannot fight. He says he cannot fight. Do you want him to say it again? Whis fighting has never been an option.

Exactly. We have seen how Angels do not give a shit about their Gods or other mortals. Not even Whis does, even though it seems like he has grown fond of Goku and co. In RoF, Beerus agreed to time being reversed in Goku’s favor. So yeah, Beerus cares about them and he would probably risk his life to save Goku and Vegeta, even if he would act like he did that because he wanted a good fight.
Toriyama even corrected Toyotaro, who wanted to depict Belmod and Marcarita as lovers, to keep the Angels completely neutral to everything and everyone. Even Daishinkan is completely neutral. He just follows Zeno’s orders as his offsprings do with their respective Hakaishins.

The thing would be interesting though what would be happening if their own lives/existence are in question. They hardly should be prohibited of fighting to defend themselves.

It takes a lot to threaten the life of an angel. As far as I'm concerned that's not a real situation, at least not yet.

[Mister_Popo]

That is what we are told in the story. Yes. But In-Universe it would just seem that convincing Whis would be their best/easiest option to win. There needs to be a way to make sure Whis absolutely cannot interfere that way we know certain that they have to find a way to beat him themselves.

Whis is neutral. He cannot fight. He says he cannot fight. Do you want him to say it again? Whis fighting has never been an option.

Exactly. We have seen how Angels do not give a shit about their Gods or other mortals. Not even Whis does, even though it seems like he has grown fond of Goku and co. In RoF, Beerus agreed to time being reversed in Goku’s favor. So yeah, Beerus cares about them and he would probably risk his life to save Goku and Vegeta, even if he would act like he did that because he wanted a good fight.
Toriyama even corrected Toyotaro, who wanted to depict Belmod and Marcarita as lovers, to keep the Angels completely neutral to everything and everyone. Even Daishinkan is completely neutral. He just follows Zeno’s orders as his offsprings do with their respective Hakaishins.

The possibility still remains he gets possessed by Baby one day to become one hell of a badass villain. You never know.

[emperior]

Whis is neutral. He cannot fight. He says he cannot fight. Do you want him to say it again? Whis fighting has never been an option.

Exactly. We have seen how Angels do not give a shit about their Gods or other mortals. Not even Whis does, even though it seems like he has grown fond of Goku and co. In RoF, Beerus agreed to time being reversed in Goku’s favor. So yeah, Beerus cares about them and he would probably risk his life to save Goku and Vegeta, even if he would act like he did that because he wanted a good fight.
Toriyama even corrected Toyotaro, who wanted to depict Belmod and Marcarita as lovers, to keep the Angels completely neutral to everything and everyone. Even Daishinkan is completely neutral. He just follows Zeno’s orders as his offsprings do with their respective Hakaishins.

The possibility still remains he gets possessed by Baby one day to become one hell of a badass villain. You never know.

I doubt something like this will ever happen to Whis. And with his main ability being Ultra Instinct, I don’t think someone like Baby would be able to use his body like he does. There’s also a trend with Ginyu and Black in Toriyama’s stories where characters who find themselves in another body are never able to use it to its full potential.

[Mister_Popo]

Exactly. We have seen how Angels do not give a shit about their Gods or other mortals. Not even Whis does, even though it seems like he has grown fond of Goku and co. In RoF, Beerus agreed to time being reversed in Goku’s favor. So yeah, Beerus cares about them and he would probably risk his life to save Goku and Vegeta, even if he would act like he did that because he wanted a good fight.
Toriyama even corrected Toyotaro, who wanted to depict Belmod and Marcarita as lovers, to keep the Angels completely neutral to everything and everyone. Even Daishinkan is completely neutral. He just follows Zeno’s orders as his offsprings do with their respective Hakaishins.

The possibility still remains he gets possessed by Baby one day to become one hell of a badass villain. You never know.

I doubt something like this will ever happen to Whis. And with his main ability being Ultra Instinct, I don’t think someone like Baby would be able to use his body like he does. There’s also a trend with Ginyu and Black in Toriyama’s stories where characters who find themselves in another body are never able to use it to its full potential.

He could always hide himself in Whis' icecream as a surprise attack ...

[BrolyKale]

Whis is neutral. He cannot fight. He says he cannot fight. Do you want him to say it again? Whis fighting has never been an option.

Exactly. We have seen how Angels do not give a shit about their Gods or other mortals. Not even Whis does, even though it seems like he has grown fond of Goku and co. In RoF, Beerus agreed to time being reversed in Goku’s favor. So yeah, Beerus cares about them and he would probably risk his life to save Goku and Vegeta, even if he would act like he did that because he wanted a good fight.
Toriyama even corrected Toyotaro, who wanted to depict Belmod and Marcarita as lovers, to keep the Angels completely neutral to everything and everyone. Even Daishinkan is completely neutral. He just follows Zeno’s orders as his offsprings do with their respective Hakaishins.

The thing would be interesting though what would be happening if their own lives/existence are in question. They hardly should be prohibited of fighting to defend themselves.

That's what I'm curious about as well... I wonder if they can be killed by Zeno or by someone else who is damn strong? or are they untouchable?

[jeffbr92]

There needs to be a way to make sure Whis absolutely cannot interfere that way we know certain that they have to find a way to beat him themselves.

It's easy: just make Broly stronger than Whis.

[sintzu]

There needs to be a way to make sure Whis absolutely cannot interfere.

It's easy: just make Broly stronger than Whis.

Or just have Whis be at Beerus' planet while the action is taking place.

[AnimeNation101]

There needs to be a way to make sure Whis absolutely cannot interfere.

It's easy: just make Broly stronger than Whis.

Or just have Whis be at Beerus' planet while the action is taking place.

Or kill off Shin.

[jeffbr92]

Or kill off Shin.

They lack bold to do that lol

[sintzu]

It's easy: just make Broly stronger than Whis.

Or just have Whis be at Beerus' planet while the action is taking place.

Or kill off Shin.

Wouldn't that just result in Beerus dying ?

[Mister_Popo]

Blue Gogeta would probably not be far off UI Goku. It's no reason to make Broly less powerful than Jiren. That wouldn't be any less predictable than MUI Goku IMHO.

If he is less powerful than Jiren, give Goku a new transformation / technique (Kaioken combined with Blue resulting in a new state? I don't know, something) and / or let him work together with Vegeta, Piccolo, Golden Freeza and beat him that way. Or let some deux ex machina do the trick. Yes, there are more creative ways than UI to do it, but it's not Gogeta in my opinion. That's predictable as well.

I don't know what the biggest problem is with UI Goku coming back beside it being predictable. It's like saying Goku could no longer use the powers he obtained through Holy Water-training in his fights during the Fortune Teller arc.
SSJ1, 2, Blue .., basically all the new forms, they all became the standard in the sagas after they were introduced.
Why does UI has to stay a TOP-exclusive thing and can't it become the next standard? It was more than a freak accident, Whis was already training Goku and Vegeta from the beginning with UI being the endgoal.

[sintzu]

SSJ1, 2, Blue .., they all became the standard in the sagas after they were introduced. Why does UI has to stay a TOP-exclusive ?

No one's saying it's going to be a TOP exclusive but it looks like it's not going to be overused but instead saved for special villains like Jiren. Jiren may have been stronger than all the destroyers so you're not going to see everyone be that strong.

[Mister_Popo]

SSJ1, 2, Blue .., they all became the standard in the sagas after they were introduced. Why does UI has to stay a TOP-exclusive ?

No one's saying it's going to be a TOP exclusive but it looks like it's not going to be overused but instead saved for special villains like Jiren. Jiren may have been stronger than all the destroyers so you're not going to see everyone be that strong.

Opponents have always become stronger (there were exceptions but rare) from the utter beginning of Dragon Ball, why would that suddenly change?
They've always given us the illusion this opponent (in this recent case Jiren) was the final endgame, only to introduce someone stronger later on, in the next arc.

[sintzu]

Opponents have always become stronger from the utter beginning of Dragon Ball, why would that suddenly change?

Because it would be too hard to maintain. You can only make someone so strong before things get out of hand and with Toriyama still having stories to tell I doubt he's going to want to corner himself like that. We'll eventually get someone stronger than Jiren but not Broly and probably not whoever's after him.

[Mister_Popo]

Opponents have always become stronger from the utter beginning of Dragon Ball, why would that suddenly change?

Because it would be too hard to maintain. You can only make someone so strong before things get out of hand and with Toriyama still having stories to tell I doubt he's going to want to corner himself like that. We'll eventually get someone stronger than Jiren but not Broly and probably not whoever's after him.

I think there are still enough candidates that are stronger than Jiren: never was stated in other Universes there couldn't be mortals stronger than Jiren, there maybe are makaishins / demons, hidden realms, rebooted Janemba coming for a challenge... There are still a lot of possible stronger opponents.

But, ok fair enough, that's still reasonable what you suggesting: if he's weaker ... then there are other creative means but not Gogeta because then you have the same problem.

[sintzu]

If he's weaker then there are other creative means but not Gogeta because then you have the same problem.

If they were interested in being creative we wouldn't be seeing Broly brought back.

[Mister_Popo]

If he's weaker then there are other creative means but not Gogeta because then you have the same problem.

If they were interested in being creative we wouldn't be seeing Broly brought back.

We always hope for the best bro ...

[Simere]

Opponents have always become stronger from the utter beginning of Dragon Ball, why would that suddenly change?

Because it would be too hard to maintain. You can only make someone so strong before things get out of hand and with Toriyama still having stories to tell I doubt he's going to want to corner himself like that. We'll eventually get someone stronger than Jiren but not Broly and probably not whoever's after him.

It's not hard to maintain as he showed throughout the original DB run, and trying to avoid getting too strong just for its own sake will only result in lesser stories. There's no inherent value in it and it's not what DB built itself on.

[sintzu]

We always hope for the best bro ...

What I'm hoping for is another Goku Black/TOP Freeza where the idea itself isn't that original but the execution and writing is so good that it makes up for and even justifies it.

It's not hard to maintain as he showed throughout the original DB run, and trying to avoid getting too strong just for its own sake will only result in lesser stories. There's no inherent value in it and it's not what DB built itself on.

Beerus was very strong in BOG but we had to wait all the way to jiren to get someone like that again.