Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[WittyUsername]

No, it questions if Broly is stronger than a god of destruction. Again, Beerus name isn't in it...

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1025416473068466177


Please stop stating your headcannon as fact. Jiren was only outright stated to be stronger than belmound in both anime/manga. You pretending the gods are all around the same power is nothing more than a headache.

It's not headcanon. Whis said Jiren perhaps even surpassed the state of a GoD in episode 110.
Take however you want, but that was before he used full power let alone broke his limits.

The GoDs in the manga are more or less around the same power. They fought randomly and got badly injured, including Beerus.

Like you, Whis was stating headcannon too. He only confirmed Jiren surpassed Belmound. There was no "perhaps" about that.

At the very least, if Jiren is stronger than Belmod, I don’t see how he or Goku would be “miles” behind Beerus, unless Beerus happens to be significantly more powerful than any of the other Gods of Destruction, which is something that even the manga never really suggested. I’m not saying Jiren is stronger than Beerus, but he certainly should be near his level.

[Miracles]

It's not headcanon. Whis said Jiren perhaps even surpassed the state of a GoD in episode 110.
Take however you want, but that was before he used full power let alone broke his limits.

The GoDs in the manga are more or less around the same power. They fought randomly and got badly injured, including Beerus.

Like you, Whis was stating headcannon too. He only confirmed Jiren surpassed Belmound. There was no "perhaps" about that.

At the very least, if Jiren is stronger than Belmod, I don’t see how he or Goku would be “miles” behind Beerus, unless Beerus happens to be significantly more powerful than any of the other Gods of Destruction, which is something that even the manga never really suggested. I’m not saying Jiren is stronger than Beerus, but he certainly should be near his level.

Again, assuming Belmound being near Beerus is just that...An assumption. Let's leave it alone until the show expands on it.

[WittyUsername]

Like you, Whis was stating headcannon too. He only confirmed Jiren surpassed Belmound. There was no "perhaps" about that.

At the very least, if Jiren is stronger than Belmod, I don’t see how he or Goku would be “miles” behind Beerus, unless Beerus happens to be significantly more powerful than any of the other Gods of Destruction, which is something that even the manga never really suggested. I’m not saying Jiren is stronger than Beerus, but he certainly should be near his level.

Again, assuming Belmound being near Beerus is just that...An assumption. Let's leave it alone until the show expands on it.

In that case, saying that Beerus would mop the floor with Broly (which I believe is where this conversation began) is also an assumption.

With that being said, if Belmod is supposed to be ridiculously weaker than Beerus, the statement about Jiren being stronger than him has no real weight to it.

[zarmack]

Stronger than A God of Destruction. “A” being the keyword here. Not “all.”

When people say things like "I'm faster than a car", they mean ALL cars, not just a particular car.

So "stronger than a GoD" obviously means all Gods of Destruction, they never just said Belmod. Beerus fanboys should just give it up.

[Miracles]

At the very least, if Jiren is stronger than Belmod, I don’t see how he or Goku would be “miles” behind Beerus, unless Beerus happens to be significantly more powerful than any of the other Gods of Destruction, which is something that even the manga never really suggested. I’m not saying Jiren is stronger than Beerus, but he certainly should be near his level.

Again, assuming Belmound being near Beerus is just that...An assumption. Let's leave it alone until the show expands on it.

In that case, saying that Beerus would mop the floor with Broly (which I believe is where this conversation began) is also an assumption.

With that being said, if Belmod is supposed to be ridiculously weaker than Beerus, the statement about Jiren being stronger than him has no real weight to it.

I didn't say Beerus would mop the floor with anybody or vice versa. The only facts we have concerning Beerus is that Goku is training to beat him. That's been a plot point for both anime/manga.

[kudo6000]

Stronger than A God of Destruction. “A” being the keyword here. Not “all.”

When people say things like "I'm faster than a car", they mean ALL cars, not just a particular car.

So "stronger than a GoD" obviously means all Gods of Destruction, they never just said Belmod. Beerus fanboys should just give it up.

That analogy doesn't work here (or at all, really... considering any form of vehicle varies in speed...) Whis comments on how the rumor of a universe containing a mortal who surpasses a God of Destruction could be true in the anime, whereas in the manga, they're straightforward to say that Jiren is only stronger than the U11 God. If they wanted to specify more, Whis would have said that Jiren is stronger than ALL Gods of Destruction.

Also, I don't care about your boogeyman. So, I'd rather you cast that aside and maintain your position in the actual argument.

[WittyUsername]

Again, assuming Belmound being near Beerus is just that...An assumption. Let's leave it alone until the show expands on it.

In that case, saying that Beerus would mop the floor with Broly (which I believe is where this conversation began) is also an assumption.

With that being said, if Belmod is supposed to be ridiculously weaker than Beerus, the statement about Jiren being stronger than him has no real weight to it.

I didn't say Beerus would mop the floor with anybody or vice versa. The only facts we have concerning Beerus is that Goku is training to beat him. That's been a plot point for both anime/manga.

Another poster said that Beerus would “wreck” Broly if he fought him in this film.

[Miracles]

In that case, saying that Beerus would mop the floor with Broly (which I believe is where this conversation began) is also an assumption.

With that being said, if Belmod is supposed to be ridiculously weaker than Beerus, the statement about Jiren being stronger than him has no real weight to it.

I didn't say Beerus would mop the floor with anybody or vice versa. The only facts we have concerning Beerus is that Goku is training to beat him. That's been a plot point for both anime/manga.

Another poster said that Beerus would “wreck” Broly if he fought him in this film.

Yes, but I wanted to clarify the facts that it is an unknown.

[Mercenary]

In that case, saying that Beerus would mop the floor with Broly (which I believe is where this conversation began) is also an assumption.

With that being said, if Belmod is supposed to be ridiculously weaker than Beerus, the statement about Jiren being stronger than him has no real weight to it.

I didn't say Beerus would mop the floor with anybody or vice versa. The only facts we have concerning Beerus is that Goku is training to beat him. That's been a plot point for both anime/manga.

Another poster said that Beerus would “wreck” Broly if he fought him in this film.

Because he would or at least use Hakai and game over.

[Shounen]

Stronger than A God of Destruction. “A” being the keyword here. Not “all.”

When people say things like "I'm faster than a car", they mean ALL cars, not just a particular car.

So "stronger than a GoD" obviously means all Gods of Destruction, they never just said Belmod. Beerus fanboys should just give it up.

Vegeta "surpassed a god" in 126th episode too. It means nothing.

[Cetra]

I didn't say Beerus would mop the floor with anybody or vice versa. The only facts we have concerning Beerus is that Goku is training to beat him. That's been a plot point for both anime/manga.

Another poster said that Beerus would “wreck” Broly if he fought him in this film.

Because he would or at least use Hakai and game over.

Hakai is worthless for like one and a half years already. If Broly is the character he is supposed to be he does with Beerus what he did to Paragus in his original movie where his first incarnation is from.

[YamiGoku]

Sees all the power levels posts about Beerus...

what have i done.

[zarmack]

I didn't say Beerus would mop the floor with anybody or vice versa. The only facts we have concerning Beerus is that Goku is training to beat him. That's been a plot point for both anime/manga.

Another poster said that Beerus would “wreck” Broly if he fought him in this film.

Because he would or at least use Hakai and game over.

Hakai isn't all that. It only seems to work on people much weaker than the user.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Sees all the power levels posts about Beerus...

what have i done.

Oh don't worry, this happens a lot around here.

Someone mentions even the slightest hint of a power level discrepancy, and suddenly folks around here jump on it like a bunch of starving dogs that just had a T-bone steak thrown into their kennel. It's really quite fascinating, if unsettling and unnecessary.

[RecolorSaiyan]

V-Jump please reveal gogeta

[PFM18]

Like you, Whis was stating headcannon too. He only confirmed Jiren surpassed Belmound. There was no "perhaps" about that.

At the very least, if Jiren is stronger than Belmod, I don’t see how he or Goku would be “miles” behind Beerus, unless Beerus happens to be significantly more powerful than any of the other Gods of Destruction, which is something that even the manga never really suggested. I’m not saying Jiren is stronger than Beerus, but he certainly should be near his level.

Again, assuming Belmound being near Beerus is just that...An assumption. Let's leave it alone until the show expands on it.

We have no reason to believe that he IS stronger than Belmod let alone to such an extent that Belmod isn't near Beerus. It is not some unfounded assertion that Belmod is at least NEAR Beerus. In fact, we were given reason to believe the opposite, because Whis said that Belmod was stronger than Beerus. Beerus disputed it, but that's just part of his character.

It would make no sense for the scene to exist just for the intention to be to dismiss it because "It's just an arm wrestling match!" The scene obviously narratively serves to hype up Jiren. As in, "This other God of Destruction is stronger than the one you know, but even he is weaker than this mortal!" Of course, we didn't know at the time but the mortal he was referring to was Jiren.

If it wasn't already clear, we get supplementary material stating that 3rd UI Omen ~ Beerus, and Jiren was winning against that before Goku completed the form. Jiren was winning against somebody stated to be as strong or stronger than Beerus. That corroborates with the aforementioned conversation, and confirms any suspicions you may have.

Then, promotional material for the movie says that Broly is the strongest enemy they have ever faced. Therefore it follows that:

Broly>Jiren>Belmod>3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus

It is crystal clear. There's no head canon involved.

[Miracles]

At the very least, if Jiren is stronger than Belmod, I don’t see how he or Goku would be “miles” behind Beerus, unless Beerus happens to be significantly more powerful than any of the other Gods of Destruction, which is something that even the manga never really suggested. I’m not saying Jiren is stronger than Beerus, but he certainly should be near his level.

Again, assuming Belmound being near Beerus is just that...An assumption. Let's leave it alone until the show expands on it.

We have no reason to believe that he IS stronger than Belmod let alone to such an extent that Belmod isn't near Beerus. It is not some unfounded assertion that Belmod is at least NEAR Beerus. In fact, we were given reason to believe the opposite, because Whis said that Belmod was stronger than Beerus. Beerus disputed it, but that's just part of his character.

It would make no sense for the scene to exist just for the intention to be to dismiss it because "It's just an arm wrestling match!" The scene obviously narratively serves to hype up Jiren. As in, "This other God of Destruction is stronger than the one you know, but even he is weaker than this mortal!" Of course, we didn't know at the time but the mortal he was referring to was Jiren.

If it wasn't already clear, we get supplementary material stating that 3rd UI Omen ~ Beerus, and Jiren was winning against that before Goku completed the form. Jiren was winning against somebody stated to be as strong or stronger than Beerus. That corroborates with the aforementioned conversation, and confirms any suspicions you may have.

Then, promotional material for the movie says that Broly is the strongest enemy they have ever faced. Therefore it follows that:

Broly>Jiren>Belmod>3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus

It is crystal clear. There's no head canon involved.

Even tho Toriyama himself said he keeps Beerus around to give Goku and Vegeta a future sense in the story? Also stated he had no plans in them Surpassing Beerus anytime soon just before the Black arc? Even tho the story has Beerus waiting to have a prophetic fight against a formidable foe [Goku]? While Belmound is not relevant anymore as he was surpassed by a mortal and Beerus is still waiting for a challenge from the mortal who is stronger than both of them. I see that TOEI's story is too deep for the fandom and this is why the fandom has power scaling issues.

[PFM18]

Again, assuming Belmound being near Beerus is just that...An assumption. Let's leave it alone until the show expands on it.

We have no reason to believe that he IS stronger than Belmod let alone to such an extent that Belmod isn't near Beerus. It is not some unfounded assertion that Belmod is at least NEAR Beerus. In fact, we were given reason to believe the opposite, because Whis said that Belmod was stronger than Beerus. Beerus disputed it, but that's just part of his character.

It would make no sense for the scene to exist just for the intention to be to dismiss it because "It's just an arm wrestling match!" The scene obviously narratively serves to hype up Jiren. As in, "This other God of Destruction is stronger than the one you know, but even he is weaker than this mortal!" Of course, we didn't know at the time but the mortal he was referring to was Jiren.

If it wasn't already clear, we get supplementary material stating that 3rd UI Omen ~ Beerus, and Jiren was winning against that before Goku completed the form. Jiren was winning against somebody stated to be as strong or stronger than Beerus. That corroborates with the aforementioned conversation, and confirms any suspicions you may have.

Then, promotional material for the movie says that Broly is the strongest enemy they have ever faced. Therefore it follows that:

Broly>Jiren>Belmod>3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus

It is crystal clear. There's no head canon involved.

Even tho Toriyama himself said he keeps Beerus around to give Goku and Vegeta a future sense in the story? Also stated he had no plans in them Surpassing Beerus anytime soon just before the Black arc? Even tho the story has Beerus waiting to have a prophetic fight against a formidable foe [Goku]? While Belmound is not relevant anymore as he was surpassed by a mortal and Beerus is still waiting for a challenge from the mortal who is stronger than both of them. I see that TOEI's story is too deep for the fandom and this is why the fandom has power scaling issues.

All of that is just speculation about Toriyama's intentions as it pertains to today even though the comments you are referencing were around the episode 40ish mark and here we are almost 7 months removed from the 131 episode run. Those comments are basically ancient at this point and don't take precedence over the evidence that we have plainly in front of us.

[zarmack]

Again, assuming Belmound being near Beerus is just that...An assumption. Let's leave it alone until the show expands on it.

We have no reason to believe that he IS stronger than Belmod let alone to such an extent that Belmod isn't near Beerus. It is not some unfounded assertion that Belmod is at least NEAR Beerus. In fact, we were given reason to believe the opposite, because Whis said that Belmod was stronger than Beerus. Beerus disputed it, but that's just part of his character.

It would make no sense for the scene to exist just for the intention to be to dismiss it because "It's just an arm wrestling match!" The scene obviously narratively serves to hype up Jiren. As in, "This other God of Destruction is stronger than the one you know, but even he is weaker than this mortal!" Of course, we didn't know at the time but the mortal he was referring to was Jiren.

If it wasn't already clear, we get supplementary material stating that 3rd UI Omen ~ Beerus, and Jiren was winning against that before Goku completed the form. Jiren was winning against somebody stated to be as strong or stronger than Beerus. That corroborates with the aforementioned conversation, and confirms any suspicions you may have.

Then, promotional material for the movie says that Broly is the strongest enemy they have ever faced. Therefore it follows that:

Broly>Jiren>Belmod>3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus

It is crystal clear. There's no head canon involved.

Even tho Toriyama himself said he keeps Beerus around to give Goku and Vegeta a future sense in the story? Also stated he had no plans in them Surpassing Beerus anytime soon just before the Black arc? Even tho the story has Beerus waiting to have a prophetic fight against a formidable foe [Goku]? While Belmound is not relevant anymore as he was surpassed by a mortal and Beerus is still waiting for a challenge from the mortal who is stronger than both of them. I see that TOEI's story is too deep for the fandom and this is why the fandom has power scaling issues.

1. "Anytime soon" doesn't mean "never".

2. Toriyama's comment about them not surpassing Beerus "anytime soon" was all the way back Super was even a thing. Not just before the Black arc.

3. There is way, way to much evidence for Beerus being surpassed by the mortals. Such as that guide from Toei that said 3rd Omen Goku > Beerus, or the numerous other guides and statements that put Jiren above ALL the Hakaishin, or Toyotaro putting Vegito Blue above Beerus, etc.

[Miracles]

We have no reason to believe that he IS stronger than Belmod let alone to such an extent that Belmod isn't near Beerus. It is not some unfounded assertion that Belmod is at least NEAR Beerus. In fact, we were given reason to believe the opposite, because Whis said that Belmod was stronger than Beerus. Beerus disputed it, but that's just part of his character.

It would make no sense for the scene to exist just for the intention to be to dismiss it because "It's just an arm wrestling match!" The scene obviously narratively serves to hype up Jiren. As in, "This other God of Destruction is stronger than the one you know, but even he is weaker than this mortal!" Of course, we didn't know at the time but the mortal he was referring to was Jiren.

If it wasn't already clear, we get supplementary material stating that 3rd UI Omen ~ Beerus, and Jiren was winning against that before Goku completed the form. Jiren was winning against somebody stated to be as strong or stronger than Beerus. That corroborates with the aforementioned conversation, and confirms any suspicions you may have.

Then, promotional material for the movie says that Broly is the strongest enemy they have ever faced. Therefore it follows that:

Broly>Jiren>Belmod>3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus

It is crystal clear. There's no head canon involved.

Even tho Toriyama himself said he keeps Beerus around to give Goku and Vegeta a future sense in the story? Also stated he had no plans in them Surpassing Beerus anytime soon just before the Black arc? Even tho the story has Beerus waiting to have a prophetic fight against a formidable foe [Goku]? While Belmound is not relevant anymore as he was surpassed by a mortal and Beerus is still waiting for a challenge from the mortal who is stronger than both of them. I see that TOEI's story is too deep for the fandom and this is why the fandom has power scaling issues.

All of that is just speculation about Toriyama's intentions as it pertains to today even though the comments you are referencing were around the episode 40ish mark and here we are almost 7 months removed from the 131 episode run. Those comments are basically ancient at this point and don't take precedence over the evidence that we have plainly in front of us.

No, those comments from Toriyama are also STORY FACTS, as Beerus is still waiting for a formidable foe, due to the the oracle fish's prophecy.

We have no reason to believe that he IS stronger than Belmod let alone to such an extent that Belmod isn't near Beerus. It is not some unfounded assertion that Belmod is at least NEAR Beerus. In fact, we were given reason to believe the opposite, because Whis said that Belmod was stronger than Beerus. Beerus disputed it, but that's just part of his character.

It would make no sense for the scene to exist just for the intention to be to dismiss it because "It's just an arm wrestling match!" The scene obviously narratively serves to hype up Jiren. As in, "This other God of Destruction is stronger than the one you know, but even he is weaker than this mortal!" Of course, we didn't know at the time but the mortal he was referring to was Jiren.

If it wasn't already clear, we get supplementary material stating that 3rd UI Omen ~ Beerus, and Jiren was winning against that before Goku completed the form. Jiren was winning against somebody stated to be as strong or stronger than Beerus. That corroborates with the aforementioned conversation, and confirms any suspicions you may have.

Then, promotional material for the movie says that Broly is the strongest enemy they have ever faced. Therefore it follows that:

Broly>Jiren>Belmod>3rd UI Omen Goku~Beerus

It is crystal clear. There's no head canon involved.

Even tho Toriyama himself said he keeps Beerus around to give Goku and Vegeta a future sense in the story? Also stated he had no plans in them Surpassing Beerus anytime soon just before the Black arc? Even tho the story has Beerus waiting to have a prophetic fight against a formidable foe [Goku]? While Belmound is not relevant anymore as he was surpassed by a mortal and Beerus is still waiting for a challenge from the mortal who is stronger than both of them. I see that TOEI's story is too deep for the fandom and this is why the fandom has power scaling issues.

1. "Anytime soon" doesn't mean "never".

2. Toriyama's comment about them not surpassing Beerus "anytime soon" was all the way back Super was even a thing. Not just before the Black arc.

3. There is way, way to much evidence for Beerus being surpassed by the mortals. Such as that guide from Toei that said 3rd Omen Goku > Beerus, or the numerous other guides and statements that put Jiren above ALL the Hakaishin, or Toyotaro putting Vegito Blue above Beerus, etc.

Except what backs Toriyama's comments as still relevant to this day is the fact that the story has Beerus STILL waiting for a formidable foe.
Prophesied through the oracle fish. You guys better pay attention and stop the headcannon.