Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:17 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:

It never said anythng about Buu arc Vegito. It was about Vegito overall.
Super Baby 1 was already stated to be stronger than Vegito and he was shit compared to SSJ4 Goku, so you're wrong.
And if base Gogeta is strongr than SSJ Blue it either retcons SSJ God being stronger than Vegito pretty much making SSJ4 far superior to Blue or it retcons statement about potara fusion being superior and just makes Gogeta far stronger than Vegito.
That doesn't make any logical sense.

1. The GT Perfect flies was clearly referring to and even shows the image of Buu arc Vegito (not some hypothetical later Vegito that your're making up) when it said he was "perhaps stronger than SSJ4". So no, SSJ4 Goku in GT is not all that stronger than Buu arc Vegito if even he is still comparable.

2. Super Baby 1 was nowhere stated to be stronger than Buu arc Vegito. And if the GT Perfect files compares Buu arc Vegito to SSJ4 Goku, then no way in hell is any version of Baby stronger than him.

3. You forgot that in the Black arc, Base Vegito was also shown to be stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta added together, since he was able to casually shoot off half of Merged Zamasu's body and even stated that he would be more of a challenge to him before he turned SSB.

Potara fusion is the max power of both partners multiplier together, making even the base result stronger than their individual halves. That's why Base Vegito was stronger than SSJ3 Goku in the Buu arc and SSB Goku in the Black, as well as why Base Kefla was stronger than Mastered Berzerk Kale in the ToP arc.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:21 pm

IM21 wrote:So they made Broly a friend and Frieza has become pretty much a joke. But hey, at least it looks great. To me this movie sounds pretty much not needed. I hope I am wrong.

Also, lol at Frieza threatening Gogeta... Is he gonna train for 4 months again and then return stronger than Gogeta?
How is Broly being a friend such a bad thing? I don't see an issue with that? The illustration of the Saiyan's history and the introduction of Broly in and of itself warrants it's existence to me.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Jiren > Beerus wasn't retconned because it was never a thing to begin with.
Yeah it was. Jiren's entire schtick was that he was the mortal stronger than Gods of Destruction. Whis said Belmod was stronger than Beerus, and Jiren is stronger than Belmod. UI Goku is in the "state of the Gods" and he had "stepped over the state of the Gods."
Jiren was stated to be stronger than a Hakiahsin not all Hakaishin.

Big difference.
When people say things like "its faster than a horse" or "its stronger than a bear" they obviously mean all cars and bears, not just some particular ones.

So that argument for Beerus still being stronger than Jiren doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Nickolaidas » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:24 pm

Woah. Frieza getting shit-pasted for a whole hour? Don't know if I'm supposed to be disappointed or impressed. Getting beat up by LSSJ Broly for 1 hour is no joke.

Still, the wish thing is indeed pure comedy. I *get* that it's Dragonball for ya, I just think that Frieza is the wrong character to do it with.

So Frieza instigates the plot (smart), wishes to become taller (gag that unfortunately makes him look as an even bigger moron than Red), and gets his ass handed to him by Broly for one hour (karma at its finest). In the end, he survives and I'm content. This is Broly's movie and Frieza's chance for the spotlight was in RoF.

Here's hoping Cooler will arrive and help him straighten his act.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:24 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:Are Tuffles really mentioned in movie?
No, I don't think so. But I always thought that if we ever see a Toriyama version of it, I think Toriyama would make Vegeta to fight alongside his father during the war, even though the guidebooks state that Vegeta was born after the war ends (since you know... Toriyama is not bound to follow guidebook information).

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:26 pm

zarmack wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Yeah it was. Jiren's entire schtick was that he was the mortal stronger than Gods of Destruction. Whis said Belmod was stronger than Beerus, and Jiren is stronger than Belmod. UI Goku is in the "state of the Gods" and he had "stepped over the state of the Gods."
Jiren was stated to be stronger than a Hakiahsin not all Hakaishin.

Big difference.
When people say things like "its faster than a horse" or "its stronger than a bear" they obviously mean all cars and bears, not just some particular ones.

So that argument for Beerus still being stronger than Jiren doesn't make any sense.
It's a retcon. Plain and simple. Jiren was stronger than the GoDs and now he is not apparently.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:26 pm

I find the way different transformations affect different versions of fusion intreasting.

Super Saiyan Blue, a god power form, cuts the timer of godly fusion in half while a mortal developed fusion gets to run to its full limit.

I wonder if a similar yet opposite affect is achieved with Super Saiyan 4? Gogeta only lasted 10 mins so Ss4 Vegito may be superior.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by IM21 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:26 pm

PFM18 wrote:
IM21 wrote:So they made Broly a friend and Frieza has become pretty much a joke. But hey, at least it looks great. To me this movie sounds pretty much not needed. I hope I am wrong.

Also, lol at Frieza threatening Gogeta... Is he gonna train for 4 months again and then return stronger than Gogeta?
How is Broly being a friend such a bad thing? I don't see an issue with that? The illustration of the Saiyan's history and the introduction of Broly in and of itself warrants it's existence to me.
I guess for some it will be fine. But for me it's not really that exiting that from 2013 we only got one bad guy, which is Zamasu.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by wolflonnie » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:28 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:I find the way different transformations affect different versions of fusion intreasting.

Super Saiyan Blue, a god power form, cuts the timer of godly fusion in half while a mortal developed fusion gets to run to its full limit.

I wonder if a similar yet opposite affect is achieved with Super Saiyan 4? Gogeta only lasted 10 mins so Ss4 Vegito may be superior.
I think that's the case. Mortal fusion techniques aren't affected by god ki, and godly fusion fusion techniques are affected by god ki. Makes a lot of sense.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Chuquita » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:28 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:Summary from someone who knows fluent japanese and has seen the movie.

https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/dr ... s.1152483/
That thorough summary! Many thanks!

This does seem like a more interesting Brolli. The part about his pelt and monster dog friend was bittersweet.
Brolli tarzaning inside Freeza's ship compared to Paragas' politeness sounds fun. Yikes at the collar being something that electrocutes Brolli.

Gokû initially not worried about Freeza because Freeza helped them that one time...I'm like sighing because Gokû you're such a sweet trusting soul but come on not every bad guy you fight will turn good.

The VegeBul moment is just a rehash of the Buu arc's Gokû tries to convince Vegeta's to fuse moment only Bulma's still alive? Good. That's fine.

Nice of Gokû to reach out to Brolli and bring him stuff like a house and food. I can see them becoming good friends and I like that.
Last edited by Chuquita on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:29 pm

IM21 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
IM21 wrote:So they made Broly a friend and Frieza has become pretty much a joke. But hey, at least it looks great. To me this movie sounds pretty much not needed. I hope I am wrong.

Also, lol at Frieza threatening Gogeta... Is he gonna train for 4 months again and then return stronger than Gogeta?
How is Broly being a friend such a bad thing? I don't see an issue with that? The illustration of the Saiyan's history and the introduction of Broly in and of itself warrants it's existence to me.
I guess for some it will be fine. But for me it's not really that exiting that from 2013 we only got one bad guy, which is Zamasu.
It doesn't really bother me. Especially since the only bad guy is an absolutely fantastically written character and since Freeza has apparently been ruined, may be the best villain in the franchise to me.

I'm still pissed about Freeza's 5 cm thing.
wolflonnie wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:I find the way different transformations affect different versions of fusion intreasting.

Super Saiyan Blue, a god power form, cuts the timer of godly fusion in half while a mortal developed fusion gets to run to its full limit.

I wonder if a similar yet opposite affect is achieved with Super Saiyan 4? Gogeta only lasted 10 mins so Ss4 Vegito may be superior.
I think that's the case. Mortal fusion techniques aren't affected by god ki, and godly fusion fusion techniques are affected by god ki. Makes a lot of sense.
I think this is actually a really nice touch. Toriyama seems to have been able to give context to the mechanics of the fusions because of all of this god stuff.
Chuquita wrote:That thorough summary! Many thanks!
That summary makes the movie sound WAY more promising than Geekdom's IMO.
Last edited by PFM18 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:31 pm

Chuquita wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Summary from someone who knows fluent japanese and has seen the movie.

https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/dr ... s.1152483/
That thorough summary! Many thanks!

This does seem like a more interesting Brolli. The part about his pelt and monster dog friend was bittersweet.
Brolli tarzaning inside Freeza's ship compared to Paragas' politeness sounds fun. Yikes at the collar being something that electrocutes Brolli.

Gokû initially not worried about Freeza because Freeza helped them that one time...I'm like sighing because Gokû you're such a sweet trusting soul but come on not every bad guy you fight will turn good.

The VegeBul moment is just a rehash of the Buu arc's Gokû tries to convince Vegeta's to fuse moment only Bulma's still alive? Good. That's fine.


Nice of Gokû to reach out to Brolli and bring him stuff like a house and food. I can see them becoming good friends and I like that.
I wish they kept his sadistic bloodlust for Legendary though. I mean it would not be that much to be asked for. i do not want just 40+-year old Broly to be the most gentle thing ever. They could should him with both sides.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Nickolaidas » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:34 pm

What's interesting is that the movie lampshades how silly Frieza is being since characters tell him about the 2nd transformation (like many of the posters here reasoned as a way to get taller).

I think they need to proceed carefully with Frieza. Do they want to humanize him like Beerus by making him succumb to silliness (i.e. Bulma slapping Beerus in the Black arc), or do they indeed want to turn him into team rocket?

We'll see.

One thing's for sure. Movies and Frieza just don't mix. Guy's doing a better job in the regular series.
Last edited by Nickolaidas on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:35 pm

zarmack wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:

It never said anythng about Buu arc Vegito. It was about Vegito overall.
Super Baby 1 was already stated to be stronger than Vegito and he was shit compared to SSJ4 Goku, so you're wrong.
And if base Gogeta is strongr than SSJ Blue it either retcons SSJ God being stronger than Vegito pretty much making SSJ4 far superior to Blue or it retcons statement about potara fusion being superior and just makes Gogeta far stronger than Vegito.
That doesn't make any logical sense.

1. The GT Perfect flies was clearly referring to and even shows the image of Buu arc Vegito (not some hypothetical later Vegito that your're making up) when it said he was "perhaps stronger than SSJ4". So no, SSJ4 Goku in GT is not all that stronger than Buu arc Vegito if even he is still comparable.

2. Super Baby 1 was nowhere stated to be stronger than Buu arc Vegito. And if the GT Perfect files compares Buu arc Vegito to SSJ4 Goku, then no way in hell is any version of Baby stronger than him.

3. You forgot that in the Black arc, Base Vegito was also shown to be stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta added together, since he was able to casually shoot off half of Merged Zamasu's body and even stated that he would be more of a challenge to him before he turned SSB.

Potara fusion is the max power of both partners multiplier together, making even the base result stronger than their individual halves. That's why Base Vegito was stronger than SSJ3 Goku in the Buu arc and SSB Goku in the Black, as well as why Base Kefla was stronger than Mastered Berzerk Kale in the ToP arc.
A fact you call it a "Perfect Files" tells me you never really saw it.
And it never said a word about Buu arc Vegito once again. It showed image of Vegito because he only appeared there. It was section about transformations and power they gain. So no, it wasn't DBZ Vegito at all. Never said that after fusing they were comparable to SSJ4. It said they become comparable. And SSJ4, just like previous forms, was just mentioned as a form without specific arc in story.

Super Baby 1 had the strongest ki Goku ever felt. That includes Vegito. DBS pretty much confirms it since Goku could tell that Vegito won't beat Beerus meaning he felt how strong they were as fused. Adult Baby alone was said by Trunks to posses power stronger than anything else in universe ecept for Goku SSJ4 who wasn't a thing yet.
PFM18 wrote:
Wow that is infuriating.

So then as far as I can tell:

1. Very little characterization from Broly in this movie
2. Contradicts the anime continuity by not having Kaioken Blue or Blue Evolution.
3. ....and the worst power scaling mistake we have seen outside of the DBS manga in modern Dragon Ball; Base Goku performs better than Super Saiyan God Vegeta.
4. Freeza's motivation is to gain 5 centimeters in height.

I find all 4 of these to be very, very disappointing.
2. SSBE is clearly a filler that Toriyama probably doesn't even know about. I doubt and hope it won't appear ever again.
3. Nothing is worse than DBS anime power-scaling. I don't see how manga was any worse than anime.
4. Probably the best thing about this movie honestly. Immortality or power would be predictable, generic and boring. This is awesome.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Amir » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:35 pm

Even if Jiren is only stronger than some GoDs and not all of them it still doesn't put him below Beerus. Nothing even slightly implied in the anime or the manga that Beerus was stronger than Jiren or that Beerus was the strongest GoD.

For all we know they are on the same level or Jiren is stronger, and without a doubt stronger after breaking his limits.

That's why Broly is easily above Beerus.
But I wouldn't be surprised if they keep retconing his power like they're doing right now.

Even if Goku and Vegeta get billions times stronger Beerus is still above them lmao. It's utterly ridiculous

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AnimeNation101 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:35 pm

Chuquita wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Summary from someone who knows fluent japanese and has seen the movie.

https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/dr ... s.1152483/
That thorough summary! Many thanks!

This does seem like a more interesting Brolli. The part about his pelt and monster dog friend was bittersweet.
Brolli tarzaning inside Freeza's ship compared to Paragas' politeness sounds fun. Yikes at the collar being something that electrocutes Brolli.

Gokû initially not worried about Freeza because Freeza helped them that one time...I'm like sighing because Gokû you're such a sweet trusting soul but come on not every bad guy you fight will turn good.

The VegeBul moment is just a rehash of the Buu arc's Gokû tries to convince Vegeta's to fuse moment only Bulma's still alive? Good. That's fine.

Nice of Gokû to reach out to Brolli and bring him stuff like a house and food. I can see them becoming good friends and I like that.
Sounds lowkey made up
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:36 pm

PFM18 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:So can we confirm that Freeza actually wanted to get taller? I am basically praying at that point that it was a big mistake.
Nope, that's his motivation.
Wow that is infuriating.

So then as far as I can tell:

1. Very little characterization from Broly in this movie
2. Contradicts the anime continuity by not having Kaioken Blue or Blue Evolution.
3. ....and the worst power scaling mistake we have seen outside of the DBS manga in modern Dragon Ball; Base Goku performs better than Super Saiyan God Vegeta.
4. Freeza's motivation is to gain 5 centimeters in height.

I find all 4 of these to be very, very disappointing.
According to the summary, Vegeta SSG easily defeats base Broly, but Broly uses that '' Rage form '' and catch up to him (without defeating him, apparently), so Goku begins to fight with Broly

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Nickolaidas » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:38 pm

Yeah, at this stage power levels are changed according to the needs of the story and people really need to stop clinging to them if they still want to enjoy the show.

Yes, Base Goku faring better than God Vegeta sucks, but (apparently) this is the show's way of showing you that Goku is better than Vegeta by a mile. Take it for what it is and don't dwell on it so much, you'll only get pissed.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:39 pm

Cetra wrote:I hate how they changed Broly by him apparently having no sadistic side at all. This is only a guy that looks and is named like him. No "Legendary Super Saiyajin" named form, no brutal, blood-lusted, sadistic person, nothing of that in sight.

I hope Toei changes that in the TV version at least a bit with some slight alterations that also can keep the new character stuff intact. The "calm, pure" thing fits his old and new "base form" thing but I wish he would at least be the "Legend enjoying being superior and laughing while destroying planets up in the sky" like in the old movies.
What is it with Modern Dragonball and harmless villains? Even Freeza has become a joke character now smh? The only truly evil dangerous bastard to debut in Modern Dragonball was Black/Zamasu.

I like the idea of making Broly turn good in the end, but taking away his sadistic blood-lust and sociopathy was a huge mistake and it removes much of what made him popular in the first place.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:41 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:Yeah, at this stage power levels are changed according to the needs of the story and people really need to stop clinging to them if they still want to enjoy the show.

Yes, Base Goku faring better than God Vegeta sucks, but (apparently) this is the show's way of showing you that Goku is better than Vegeta by a mile. Take it for what it is and don't dwell on it so much, you'll only get pissed.
Base and SSJ Goku was said in the spoliers to get blown away pretty easily by Base Broly, while SSG Vegeta does alright by comparsion.

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