Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:41 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:2. SSBE is clearly a filler that Toriyama probably doesn't even know about. I doubt and hope it won't appear ever again.
3. Nothing is worse than DBS anime power-scaling. I don't see how manga was any worse than anime.
4. Probably the best thing about this movie honestly. Immortality or power would be predictable, generic and boring. This is awesome.
2)A very similar iteration of SSBE appears in the manga and Toriyama approves both versions. Obviously Toriyama knows about it. I will be infuriated if it never appears again myself.

3)In terms of modern Dragon Ball, Roshi vs Jiren and Kale/Kefla/Gohan shenanigans are definitely the most egregious failures, but for the most part it isn't bad. The anime's scaling is clearly better though IMO.

GT's is god awful in scaling consistency, your bias is showing. Z filler scenes are almost equally as terrible, and they fight it out for the worst in the franchise, but if this is true that Base Goku>SSG Vegeta then that will be take the top spot of the single worst instance of power scaling failure in the franchise.

4)
We already saw this with Commander Red and it is COMPLETELY out of character for Freeza
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolySSJL » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:42 pm

The Frieza wish is the WORST idea of Toriyama in a while. So bad, oh my god.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:43 pm

zarmack wrote:
Cetra wrote:I hate how they changed Broly by him apparently having no sadistic side at all. This is only a guy that looks and is named like him. No "Legendary Super Saiyajin" named form, no brutal, blood-lusted, sadistic person, nothing of that in sight.

I hope Toei changes that in the TV version at least a bit with some slight alterations that also can keep the new character stuff intact. The "calm, pure" thing fits his old and new "base form" thing but I wish he would at least be the "Legend enjoying being superior and laughing while destroying planets up in the sky" like in the old movies.
What is it with Modern Dragonball and harmless villains? Even Freeza has become a joke character now smh? The only truly evil dangerous bastard to debut in Modern Dragonball was Black/Zamasu.

I like the idea of making Broly turn good in the end, but taking away his sadistic blood-lust and sociopathy was a huge mistake and it removes much of what made him popular in the first place.
That is what I hate so much about it. People claim Broly had no personality when being one-dimensional is not the same thing as literally having no personality (also psychologically impossible). The were confused by their own hyperbole. And now Broly is pretty much what he seemd like in the old movies when he wa calmed per device. Removing one character perspective just to write another one is still him being one-dimensional and takes away from his well recognized character. I hope Toei brings in a bit of their old Broly feeling.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:44 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:Yeah, at this stage power levels are changed according to the needs of the story and people really need to stop clinging to them if they still want to enjoy the show.
What people need to realize is that, while the level of it may have changed, that has always been true. Why were the Androids stronger than Freeza? Because they needed be for the story to progress further. Why did other characters develop Super Saiyan instead of staying Goku exclusive? Because they needed to get stronger to progress the story. Why were the kids, Goten and Trunks, able to become Super Saiyan so easily? Because the story dictated that they did.

The story is and always has been king, and "power levels", "feats", and all of that mess, has always been second fiddle and subservient to the needs of whatever story was being told. That's how it's always been, and that's how it should remain as well.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by SSJgogeto » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:45 pm

The story is nice, IMO. Frieza could have a better motivation to gather the DBs, but whatever.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:45 pm

zarmack wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Yeah it was. Jiren's entire schtick was that he was the mortal stronger than Gods of Destruction. Whis said Belmod was stronger than Beerus, and Jiren is stronger than Belmod. UI Goku is in the "state of the Gods" and he had "stepped over the state of the Gods."
Jiren was stated to be stronger than a Hakiahsin not all Hakaishin.

Big difference.
When people say things like "its faster than a horse" or "its stronger than a bear" they obviously mean all cars and bears, not just some particular ones.

So that argument for Beerus still being stronger than Jiren doesn't make any sense.
This would be an apt analogy if it was stated that all the Hakaishin at the exact same in strength in the story --- which it doesn't.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Extreme_kai » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:46 pm

I gotta head to work right now and I'm super anxious to read the rest of the spoilers when I get back! I have to say, even though the tall wish is stupid, I'm glad that his height didn't get too big. I don't want a Freeza that looks like Cooler, just give me Cooler. (Disappointed to hear nothing about Cooler, but we still have time, he may appear in super)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:46 pm

Apparently Frieza kills Paragus because he remembers what happened on namek, he dose it to make Broly become a Super Saiyan to make the fight harder.

So Broly goes SS first time in the film and this scummy act is a nice balance to the rather silly wish.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:46 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:Yeah, at this stage power levels are changed according to the needs of the story and people really need to stop clinging to them if they still want to enjoy the show.

Yes, Base Goku faring better than God Vegeta sucks, but (apparently) this is the show's way of showing you that Goku is better than Vegeta by a mile. Take it for what it is and don't dwell on it so much, you'll only get pissed.
It looks like Geekdom may be wrong about that so I can go back to caring about power scaling lol.

Goku and Vegeta are equals right now and they have been for a long time.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 pm

I will add that the main thing I'm not 100% sure how I feel about it is Freeza's wish. While I'm fine with silly stuff, even coming from Freeza of all people, it feels a little too much like a re-tread of the Commander Red thing rather than an homage, sooo...yeah. I'll get over it I'm sure, but as it stands right now, that just feels a bit too derivative.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AvatarReiko » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:49 pm

Could someone who has seen the movie(or knows someone who has) clarify two things for me?

Is this version of Broly actually fleshed out and developed beyond him just going Berserk 90% of time for no reason and screaming"Kakarot!!!". Because going on what I have heard online and scenes the trailers, it seems it is exactly that(or close). Mind Controlled by Paragus and goes Berserk when they destroy his device

I don't really understand King Vegeta's actions. Why does he banish Broly in this version? The original version makes more sense to me. If he saw Broly as a threat to his reign and family, wouldn't it be easier to simply kill him? That way, he would never have to worry about him

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:50 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
zarmack wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:

It never said anythng about Buu arc Vegito. It was about Vegito overall.
Super Baby 1 was already stated to be stronger than Vegito and he was shit compared to SSJ4 Goku, so you're wrong.
And if base Gogeta is strongr than SSJ Blue it either retcons SSJ God being stronger than Vegito pretty much making SSJ4 far superior to Blue or it retcons statement about potara fusion being superior and just makes Gogeta far stronger than Vegito.
That doesn't make any logical sense.

1. The GT Perfect flies was clearly referring to and even shows the image of Buu arc Vegito (not some hypothetical later Vegito that your're making up) when it said he was "perhaps stronger than SSJ4". So no, SSJ4 Goku in GT is not all that stronger than Buu arc Vegito if even he is still comparable.

2. Super Baby 1 was nowhere stated to be stronger than Buu arc Vegito. And if the GT Perfect files compares Buu arc Vegito to SSJ4 Goku, then no way in hell is any version of Baby stronger than him.

3. You forgot that in the Black arc, Base Vegito was also shown to be stronger than SSB Goku & Vegeta added together, since he was able to casually shoot off half of Merged Zamasu's body and even stated that he would be more of a challenge to him before he turned SSB.

Potara fusion is the max power of both partners multiplier together, making even the base result stronger than their individual halves. That's why Base Vegito was stronger than SSJ3 Goku in the Buu arc and SSB Goku in the Black, as well as why Base Kefla was stronger than Mastered Berzerk Kale in the ToP arc.
A fact you call it a "Perfect Files" tells me you never really saw it.
And it never said a word about Buu arc Vegito once again. It showed image of Vegito because he only appeared there. It was section about transformations and power they gain. So no, it wasn't DBZ Vegito at all. Never said that after fusing they were comparable to SSJ4. It said they become comparable. And SSJ4, just like previous forms, was just mentioned as a form without specific arc in story.

Super Baby 1 had the strongest ki Goku ever felt. That includes Vegito. DBS pretty much confirms it since Goku could tell that Vegito won't beat Beerus meaning he felt how strong they were as fused. Adult Baby alone was said by Trunks to posses power stronger than anything else in universe ecept for Goku SSJ4 who wasn't a thing yet.
PFM18 wrote:
Wow that is infuriating.

So then as far as I can tell:

1. Very little characterization from Broly in this movie
2. Contradicts the anime continuity by not having Kaioken Blue or Blue Evolution.
3. ....and the worst power scaling mistake we have seen outside of the DBS manga in modern Dragon Ball; Base Goku performs better than Super Saiyan God Vegeta.
4. Freeza's motivation is to gain 5 centimeters in height.

I find all 4 of these to be very, very disappointing.
2. SSBE is clearly a filler that Toriyama probably doesn't even know about. I doubt and hope it won't appear ever again.
3. Nothing is worse than DBS anime power-scaling. I don't see how manga was any worse than anime.
4. Probably the best thing about this movie honestly. Immortality or power would be predictable, generic and boring. This is awesome.
1. About Vegito and SSJ4: viewtopic.php?p=612922#p612922

2. SSBE is in the manga, so he clearly knows about it.

3. The powerscaling for Kale and Gohan in the manga's ToP arc is far worse than anything in the Super anime.

4. Freeza's wish is stupid and out-of-character no matter how you look at it. He isn't Commander Red.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:51 pm

AvatarReiko wrote:Could someone who has seen the movie(or knows someone who has) clarify two things for me?

Is this version of Broly actually fleshed out and developed beyond him just going Berserk 90% of time for no reason and screaming"Kakarot!!!".

That never happened in the first movie. He was a pretty articulate guy, very well knowing and enjoying what he was doing.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:52 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Jiren was stated to be stronger than a Hakiahsin not all Hakaishin.

Big difference.
When people say things like "its faster than a horse" or "its stronger than a bear" they obviously mean all cars and bears, not just some particular ones.

So that argument for Beerus still being stronger than Jiren doesn't make any sense.
This would be an apt analogy if it was stated that all the Hakaishin at the exact same in strength in the story --- which it doesn't.
Horse's and bears don't all have the same stats in real life either, so that rebuttal doesn't work.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:52 pm

AvatarReiko wrote:Could someone who has seen the movie(or knows someone who has) clarify two things for me?

Is this version of Broly actually fleshed out and developed beyond him just going Berserk 90% of time for no reason and screaming"Kakarot!!!". Because going on what I have heard online and scenes the trailers, it seems it is exactly that(or close). Mind Controlled by Paragus and goes Berserk when they destroy his device

I don't really understand King Vegeta's actions. Why does he banish Broly in this version? The original version makes more sense to me. If he saw Broly as a threat to his reign and family, wouldn't it be easier to simply kill him? That way, he would never have to worry about him
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:53 pm

PFM18 wrote: GT's is god awful in scaling consistency, your bias is showing. Z filler scenes are almost equally as terrible, and they fight it out for the worst in the franchise, but if this is true that Base Goku>SSG Vegeta then that will be take the top spot of the single worst instance of power scaling failure in the franchise.
I don't see how Roshi vs Jiren was as bad as people say. Roshi didn't do anything to him and got one shotted by a fraction of Jiren's power. The only thing he has done was evading Jiren yet people behave like Roshi actually fought him for a while. He didn't.

I agree with Kefla vs Gohan even though i liked it better than Kefla vs Goku from anime, but it didn't make sense for her to be that weak.

What were those awful scaling inconsistencies in GT?

According to summary, base Goku get's trashed as well and just like Vegeta can only compete at SSJ God.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Big Black Sayian » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:54 pm

Broly was really beating Freeza's ass for an hour ? Lol

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kinokima » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:55 pm

The Vegebul scene is so disappointing it literally is a repeat of the Buu Saga scene. Vegeta refuses to do the Fusion bc the dance is embarrassing. He doesn’t even care the world will be destroyed. Then Goku teases him that Bulma will die too and Vegeta blushes and agrees.

Damn Aya Hisakawa getting my hopes up saying there is a scene that shows how much Vegeta loves Bulma. I mean yes this does but was hoping for something more.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:55 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
PFM18 wrote: GT's is god awful in scaling consistency, your bias is showing. Z filler scenes are almost equally as terrible, and they fight it out for the worst in the franchise, but if this is true that Base Goku>SSG Vegeta then that will be take the top spot of the single worst instance of power scaling failure in the franchise.
I don't see how Roshi vs Jiren was as bad as people say. Roshi didn't do anything to him and got one shotted by a fraction of Jiren's power. The only thing he has done was evading Jiren yet people behave like Roshi actually fought him for a while. He didn't.

I agree with Kefla vs Gohan even though i liked it better than Kefla vs Goku from anime, but it didn't make sense for her to be that weak.

What were those awful scaling inconsistencies in GT?

According to summary, base Goku get's trashed as well and just like Vegeta can only compete at SSJ God.
Frost who was far crazier than Jiren nearly took Roshi out without killing him, so why did it take Jiren several seconds to do the same thing?
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Nickolaidas » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:59 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:I will add that the main thing I'm not 100% sure how I feel about it is Freeza's wish. While I'm fine with silly stuff, even coming from Freeza of all people, it feels a little too much like a re-tread of the Commander Red thing rather than an homage, sooo...yeah. I'll get over it I'm sure, but as it stands right now, that just feels a bit too derivative.
Yeah. Also, the fact is that Commander Red made sense, in a way. He reveals his desire to get taller after numerous scenes of showing he had a problem with his height (asking painters to draw him like a giant, even though he was a dwarf, etc.)

Frieza, on the other hand, never expressed any desire to get taller, never commented on his height, never had shown any kind of problem with it. Him desiring to get taller is extremely bad because the only reason he wants to do it is … I don't know - FUCK IT!! And that's what makes it bad, while Commander Red's made perfect sense.

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