Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:06 pm

rizefall wrote:
Noah wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
How is Broly being a friend such a bad thing? I don't see an issue with that? The illustration of the Saiyan's history and the introduction of Broly in and of itself warrants it's existence to me.
Because he was first portrayed as an unstoppable evil force? Broly showing no sights of villany to be just a guy that is just there to fight even though he doesn't know why... Is just poor storytelling, people might say they improved his character from the past movies, but I never pictured Broly as sort of a anti hero, it doesn't feel right.
But how is it a bad thing? So you mean that just because he was evil before he has to be now, if not it's bad even though it's overall much better written this time around?

I just don't understand how people are so stuck to some ideas and can't try new things. Old Broly was shit. He was evil and angry against Goku because Goku screamed while they was next to each other as kids. That's horrible. In this movie we still get the same old Broly but also a reason for it and a much better backstory to him as a whole... Well to be fair anything would be better that the original crap we got.

People are obviously entitled to their opinion but saying the new stuff is bad just because it's not like the old stuff is plain silly.
Old Broly was definitely not shit at all... you are again bashing the old one to make the new one look better.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:06 pm

Noah wrote:
Nero<>Akira wrote:Gogeta most likely doesnt even use a blast like Final Kamehameha releasing a significant amount of his power. Thats the only reason Vegetto defused and because he was fighting an immortal being. Gogeta is fighting someone he is easily stomping.
So you mean no Big Bang Kamehameha on this movie? Meh :yawn:
I've heard about something like a "Cosmic" Kamehameha, but thats not confirmed.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:07 pm

ssj4 wrote: So both DBZ and EQG suffer from a lack of villains/too many reformed villains.
I am not the biggest fan of Dazzlings but there is one thing that puts them over all the other EQG villains - they never turned good and they were evil from the very beginning. They didn't have any reason like "no one likes me", they were just evil. It's especially annoying with Juniper Montage and Vignette Valencia that were trash villains.

DB doesn't have as many reformed villains as MLP/EQG luckily, but with Super it totally lacks villains in first place.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by rizefall » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:08 pm

BrolyKale wrote:
rizefall wrote:
Noah wrote:
Because he was first portrayed as an unstoppable evil force? Broly showing no sights of villany to be just a guy that is just there to fight even though he doesn't know why... Is just poor storytelling, people might say they improved his character from the past movies, but I never pictured Broly as sort of a anti hero, it doesn't feel right.
But how is it a bad thing? So you mean that just because he was evil before he has to be now, if not it's bad even though it's overall much better written this time around?

I just don't understand how people are so stuck to some ideas and can't try new things. Old Broly was shit. He was evil and angry against Goku because Goku screamed while they was next to each other as kids. That's horrible. In this movie we still get the same old Broly but also a reason for it and a much better backstory to him as a whole... Well to be fair anything would be better that the original crap we got.

People are obviously entitled to their opinion but saying the new stuff is bad just because it's not like the old stuff is plain silly.
Old Broly was definitely not shit at all... you are again bashing the old one to make the new one look better.
How is hold Broly any good at all? All he does is scream shit and is angry because Goku cried beside them as kids. That's all there is to him. People have said that for years (me included) so it's not something that came about just because of this new movie.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lord Frieza » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:09 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
ssj4 wrote: So both DBZ and EQG suffer from a lack of villains/too many reformed villains.
I am not the biggest fan of Dazzlings but there is one thing that puts them over all the other EQG villains - they never turned good and they were evil from the very beginning. They didn't have any reason like "no one likes me", they were just evil. It's especially annoying with Juniper Montage and Vignette Valencia that were trash villains.

DB doesn't have as many reformed villains as MLP/EQG luckily, but with Super it totally lacks villains in first place.
Your not wrong, not counting minor characters we've had only two. Frieza and Zamasu, one of which is an existing character.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ssj4 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:09 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
ssj4 wrote: So both DBZ and EQG suffer from a lack of villains/too many reformed villains.
I am not the biggest fan of Dazzlings but there is one thing that puts them over all the other EQG villains - they never turned good and they were evil from the very beginning. They didn't have any reason like "no one likes me", they were just evil. It's especially annoying with Juniper Montage and Vignette Valencia that were trash villains.

DB doesn't have as many reformed villains as MLP/EQG luckily, but with Super it totally lacks villains in first place.
I liked Dazzlings a lot(great songs and nice characters) great villains too.

Ok yeah, other villains suck. Vignette and Juniper are just awful.

At least DB super has Frost and Frieza and Zamasu

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:11 pm

zarmack wrote:
Toei's version still would have brought more tension and drama than the film we got. Also, Beerus wasn't said to have brainwash the Saiyans in this draft, only that he corrupted most of them. They would still have their free will and still would be responsible for what they did.
More like faux tension and drama because to have tension and drama you need to actually believe that the good guys can lose. It's basically the same thing since the 'corruption' was frame similarly to how Beerus was going to corrupt Goku's friends and family against him. Like no one in Dragon Ball Z or GT blamed the people who were corrupted by Garlic Jr or Baby for their actions.

The original Battle of Gods script was far safer than Toriyama's since Toriyama expanded the story while Toei was basically an one and done story with no real consequences afterwards like the other 13 movies they made.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Lukmendes » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:12 pm

On the quality being objective or subjective, honestly, there's no bigger evidence than this fanbase that it's subjective, we have people who think anything past DB is trash, people who think that what came before Z was trash, or that one or both are good, or even perfect, people who think GT is good, people who think GT is good but pretty flawed, or that it's trash, people who think Super anime is good, others that it's trash, that includes Black/Zamasu, who are seen as pretty beloved and there are those who think they're terrible villains, people who enjoy the manga, and others that it's trash.

Things like what the person prefers on a story will obviously affect how much they'll enjoy something, the most "objective" thing about quality is how much something is enjoyed overall, like saying DB is popular, that's a fact, and even so, people can like or hate something for very, very different reasons.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:13 pm

Well my first impressions about this movie were right.

Total waste of time, nothing more than two hours of blatant fanservice. Plus some truly awful things like Minus and Freeza wish.

And with Broly basically being a good guy we can forget anyone else besides the main 3 ever doing anything again. :thumbdown:

Not even seeing this in theaters now.

At least the animation looks nice.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:14 pm

BrolyKale wrote:Old Broly was definitely not shit at all... you are again bashing the old one to make the new one look better.
I bashed the old one for years before this new Broly movie. Why are you acting like Broly having shallow and stupid motives just now happened. Even people I know who loved Broly, hated the crying baby plot and him basically becoming a mindless rage monster for the last half of the film.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:14 pm

BrolyKale wrote:
rizefall wrote:
Noah wrote:
Because he was first portrayed as an unstoppable evil force? Broly showing no sights of villany to be just a guy that is just there to fight even though he doesn't know why... Is just poor storytelling, people might say they improved his character from the past movies, but I never pictured Broly as sort of a anti hero, it doesn't feel right.
But how is it a bad thing? So you mean that just because he was evil before he has to be now, if not it's bad even though it's overall much better written this time around?

I just don't understand how people are so stuck to some ideas and can't try new things. Old Broly was shit. He was evil and angry against Goku because Goku screamed while they was next to each other as kids. That's horrible. In this movie we still get the same old Broly but also a reason for it and a much better backstory to him as a whole... Well to be fair anything would be better that the original crap we got.

People are obviously entitled to their opinion but saying the new stuff is bad just because it's not like the old stuff is plain silly.
Old Broly was definitely not shit at all... you are again bashing the old one to make the new one look better.
The other one made himself look bad. DBZ Broly doesn't need any help making himself look bad. He could not possibly get much worse.

The new Broly is a huge improvement even if I find it a little disappointing.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:16 pm

rizefall wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:
rizefall wrote:
But how is it a bad thing? So you mean that just because he was evil before he has to be now, if not it's bad even though it's overall much better written this time around?

I just don't understand how people are so stuck to some ideas and can't try new things. Old Broly was shit. He was evil and angry against Goku because Goku screamed while they was next to each other as kids. That's horrible. In this movie we still get the same old Broly but also a reason for it and a much better backstory to him as a whole... Well to be fair anything would be better that the original crap we got.

People are obviously entitled to their opinion but saying the new stuff is bad just because it's not like the old stuff is plain silly.
Old Broly was definitely not shit at all... you are again bashing the old one to make the new one look better.
How is hold Broly any good at all? All he does is scream shit and is angry because Goku cried beside them as kids. That's all there is to him. People have said that for years (me included) so it's not something that came about just because of this new movie.
You are literally doing the same thing all Broly haters do right now. You are reducing him to a caricature of what he was by only pointing out the most obvious thing of his second movie. "Being angry and screaming Kakarot". Broly is not close what people claim he is.
Last edited by Cetra on Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:16 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Miracles wrote:Do you think I'm gonna listen to a headcannon specialist like you who already made up Jiren being stronger than Beerus?
I don't care if you listen to me, it doesn't change what the facts are.

Also, it's hilarious that you make that little comment to me about head canon knowing your tendencies
You don't have the facts. Again you claimed you did then and you don't now. Just chill out and put your bias aside.
IM21 wrote:
Miracles wrote: I didn't know it was just another useless question. People were saying it was blatantly stated that Broly was stronger than Beerus. Like they falsey claimed about Jiren.
I'll wait for official subs. The DB fandom likes to push their bias.

You know how bad the DB fandom can be.
The guy who watched the movie from narutoforums said ''Goku then goes on to say that Broly is an incredible fighter and that he might even be stronger than Beerus.'' Now all we can do is wait and see what the official subs say.
The official sub or Herms will clarify. However even with that statement it proves nothing.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:17 pm

rizefall wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:
rizefall wrote:
But how is it a bad thing? So you mean that just because he was evil before he has to be now, if not it's bad even though it's overall much better written this time around?

I just don't understand how people are so stuck to some ideas and can't try new things. Old Broly was shit. He was evil and angry against Goku because Goku screamed while they was next to each other as kids. That's horrible. In this movie we still get the same old Broly but also a reason for it and a much better backstory to him as a whole... Well to be fair anything would be better that the original crap we got.

People are obviously entitled to their opinion but saying the new stuff is bad just because it's not like the old stuff is plain silly.
Old Broly was definitely not shit at all... you are again bashing the old one to make the new one look better.
How is hold Broly any good at all? All he does is scream shit and is angry because Goku cried beside them as kids. That's all there is to him. People have said that for years (me included) so it's not something that came about just because of this new movie.
He is not bad as a villain, not at all. Especially for a movie villain he had a big background, one of the best from the movies. First Broly was a well written villain, its not only about Goku crying as baby its more than that, the crying thing is metaphoric. Broly got nearly killed by King Vegeta as a baby and was thrown in the garbage. He was violent and had a hard time controlling himself, Paragus also used him for his own ambitions too. The second coming made him look more angrier and insane and that's all.
Last edited by BrolyKale on Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:18 pm

PFM18 wrote:
HeroR wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Yeah. quality is subjective. That's what I said. You're literally agreeing with me but saying that the person I disagreed with is right.
People liking something more doesn't mean the product is quality, otherwise Mcdonalds' food is better quality than Jimmy Johns since more people eat Mcdonalds.

The original poster point was that you can disagree with Toriyama, but the fact remains that getting mad about something he clearly set forward and we even knew it was coming seems silly. Especially with people thinking Bardock saving Goku makes him 'good', completely ignoring he happily committed genocide.
The original poster's point was that quality is objective and not subjective. That is wrong. There really isn't anything else to it.
If you don't believe that quality is objective then it makes no sense to call anything shitty or great. If quality is subjective then the Potaufeu & Black Star arcs (the most critically panned arcs in the franchise) aren't any better or worse than the Saiyan & Namek arcs (the most critically acclaimed ones).

To be honest, people mainly claim that quality/art is subjective as a way to deflect criticism of things they like.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by IM21 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:18 pm

Miracles wrote: The official sub or Herms will clarify. However even with that statement it proves nothing.
agree. we don't know how strong Beerus really is. If you're looking at te manga he is clearly much stronger than SSJB Vegeta post Zamasu arc.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by rizefall » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:20 pm

Cetra wrote:
rizefall wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:Old Broly was definitely not shit at all... you are again bashing the old one to make the new one look better.
How is hold Broly any good at all? All he does is scream shit and is angry because Goku cried beside them as kids. That's all there is to him. People have said that for years (me included) so it's not something that came about just because of this new movie.
You are literally doing the same thing all Broly haters do right now. You are reducing him to a caricature of what he was by only pointing out the most obvious thing of his second movie. "Being angry and screaming Kakarot". Broly is not close what people claim he is.
Fair enough, but what did he do in the first movie that was so good? He still screamed, he still said Kakarot, and he still went on a rampage against Goku because of Goku crying. It's still horribly bad.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Big Black Sayian » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:20 pm

Idk but new Broly sounds like a better and more interesting character than regular old Broly. But that's just my opinion for now. Gotta see the movie. I do like his design better tho :3

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Amir » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:21 pm

IM21 wrote:
Miracles wrote: The official sub or Herms will clarify. However even with that statement it proves nothing.
agree. we don't know how strong Beerus really is. If you're looking at te manga he is clearly much stronger than SSJB Vegeta post Zamasu arc.
And also just a tiny bit stronger than the rest of the GoDs besides Belmod (not saying Belmod is stronger).

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:21 pm

zarmack wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
HeroR wrote:
People liking something more doesn't mean the product is quality, otherwise Mcdonalds' food is better quality than Jimmy Johns since more people eat Mcdonalds.

The original poster point was that you can disagree with Toriyama, but the fact remains that getting mad about something he clearly set forward and we even knew it was coming seems silly. Especially with people thinking Bardock saving Goku makes him 'good', completely ignoring he happily committed genocide.
The original poster's point was that quality is objective and not subjective. That is wrong. There really isn't anything else to it.
If you don't believe that quality is objective then it makes no sense to call anything shitty or great. If quality is subjective then the Potaufeu & Black Star arcs (the most critically panned arcs in the franchise) aren't any better or worse than the Saiyan & Namek arcs (the most critically acclaimed ones).

To be honest, people mainly claim that quality/art is subjective as a way to deflect criticism of things they like.
Quality just without context cannot be objective. He is right. You need to establish a certain standard that people agree upon under which they evaluate. In that relation things can be objective. But there is no universal law that people need to follow that standard and more importantly, the standard does not even exist without people establishing it. Quality is no natural fact. And yes, I can establish a standard under with your Godfather movie and whatever you mentioned before can be equally good.
rizefall wrote:
Cetra wrote:
rizefall wrote:
How is hold Broly any good at all? All he does is scream shit and is angry because Goku cried beside them as kids. That's all there is to him. People have said that for years (me included) so it's not something that came about just because of this new movie.
You are literally doing the same thing all Broly haters do right now. You are reducing him to a caricature of what he was by only pointing out the most obvious thing of his second movie. "Being angry and screaming Kakarot". Broly is not close what people claim he is.
Fair enough, but what did he do in the first movie that was so good? He still screamed, he still said Kakarot, and he still went on a rampage against Goku because of Goku crying. It's still horribly bad.
I am not saying it is "good": But he was the cliché anime villain. Arrogant, badass, a powerhouse, et cetera. And many people liked him for that. He had his sadistic moments, his despair-inducing moments, he was a maniac and many people, including me, enjoyed that. Especially as Vic Mignogna does a good job making it so memorable for the viewers. That is just one of the many things people see in Broly and that is also why more and more removal of what we know him for almost completely renders his introduction in Super for the sake of pleasing the fans void. Can't they at least bring in a little bit of sadism as his LSSJ (which I refuse to call Full Power because he is neither Freeza, nor Roshi, nor Bojack)?
Last edited by Cetra on Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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