Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by alakazam^ » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:38 pm

zarmack wrote:When are we ever gonna get another truly psychopathic, irredeemable, non-sympathetic villain in the franchise?

I'm okay with Broly turning neutral (or even good) in the end of the new film, but they should have kept his evil qualities from Movie 8.
Why is one needed?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by zarmack » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:44 pm

alakazam^ wrote:
zarmack wrote:When are we ever gonna get another truly psychopathic, irredeemable, non-sympathetic villain in the franchise?

I'm okay with Broly turning neutral (or even good) in the end of the new film, but they should have kept his evil qualities from Movie 8.
Why is one needed?
They bring more tension and drama into the series than less evil ones do.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by RedHeat » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:58 pm

zarmack wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:
zarmack wrote:When are we ever gonna get another truly psychopathic, irredeemable, non-sympathetic villain in the franchise?

I'm okay with Broly turning neutral (or even good) in the end of the new film, but they should have kept his evil qualities from Movie 8.
Why is one needed?
They bring more tension and drama into the series than less evil ones do.
Do they really if they always die in the end?
Feels over Reals.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:03 pm

alakazam^ wrote:Why don't people just let go? This is a new character, he "shouldn't" be A or B, there's no A or B for him to be. And please, stop with that "legendary" nonsense, that's just a nickname for a form, it doesn't mean anything.

Seriously, they use hyped up words like "demon" and "legendary" and everyone eats it up...
I could ask you the same: Why don't you let go of this stance?

Broly is NOT a "new character, completely unrelated to anything in the first place period". He is a new version of Broly, the reboot of Broly. Any comparison with the old Broly is as fair as comparing the Ghostbusters reboot with the old ones or the Tomb Raider reboot with the old ones. That he is a reboot of Broly means that there is a certain relation between those two otherwise he would not be a reboot of anything in the first place (as said before). You make it sound iike people are just allowed to compare things if they are "the same" - now, how much sense would that make?

Broly is not an actual living person. He is an idea. An idea that consists of multiple aspects that people like and make the overall idea of Broly popular. Toei wanted to bring in Broly because of that popularity. But if during the rebooting process so much of that idea's elements are lost then the goal is missed to successfully introduce "the culmination of ideas that people liked which was the reason for him to be re-introduced in the first place". The idea was not as shallow as "let's bring in a guy called Broly" but what he stands for as people do not just like him for "well there is a guy called Broly in the movies" And if that is not done there is no point in briging him in. Fans do not want just a guy called Broly, so yes, he HAS to be A or B to an extent otherwise he was so heavily changed that the goal is not reached,

Same goes for the "Legendary nonsense" as you call it. It is an integral part of what people like about Broly. So that should also not be gone.

EDIT: Why is my whole text in bold font if I only wanted it for two words?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Terez » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:26 pm

Grimlock wrote:According to a new summary made by Terez, the film actually begins 41 years ago, in AGE 739, and then there is a timeskip of five years, to AGE 744...

And then there is this sentence: "Goku arrives on Earth, beginning an on-screen counter which starts in Age 737 and scrolls through the years in front of a progression of stills from the lives of Goku, Vegeta, and Broly, with brief action shots of all three in the foreground (though Broly is only seen as a child)", which doesn't make much sense, does "AGE 737" really appear on-screen?
This is not what my summary says at all.

In the very first scene of the movie, right in front of Cold's face, it says "41 years ago" on the screen. In Bardock's first scene, it says "5 years later" on the screen. (These on-screen time stamps are all noted in the summary, including "3 days later" at the beginning of the epilogue.) When Kakarot arrives on Earth in his pod, the counter starts at Age 737 and scrolls up to the present; my source could not make out any numbers past 774 but they could at least see the 4 scrolling up to the next number (775), then it got lost in a white flash of water (Goku and Vegeta are sparring over the water), and a few seconds later it says something like "Present Day" on the screen.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolyKale » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:28 pm

RedHeat wrote:
zarmack wrote:
alakazam^ wrote: Why is one needed?
They bring more tension and drama into the series than less evil ones do.
Do they really if they always die in the end?
You know that characters can somehow evolve and still stay in the story (e.g. Freezer), the old Broly had potential to be a threat and a villain at the beginning and then evolve into being "neutral" or "good", that'd make things more interesting imo.
The idea was not as shallow as "let's bring in a guy called Broly" but what he stands for as people do not just like him for "well there is a guy called Broly in the movies" And if that is not done there is no point in briging him in. Fans do not want just a guy called Broly, so yes, he HAS to be A or B to an extent otherwise he was so heavily changed that the goal is not reached
And also there's no point of calling him "Broly" if it's not "Broly". :mrgreen:
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by alakazam^ » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:11 pm

Cetra wrote:I could ask you the same: Why don't you let go of this stance?

Broly is NOT a "new character, completely unrelated to anything in the first place period". He is a new version of Broly, the reboot of Broly. Any comparison with the old Broly is as fair as comparing the Ghostbusters reboot with the old ones or the Tomb Raider reboot with the old ones. That he is a reboot of Broly means that there is a certain relation between those two otherwise he would not be a reboot of anything in the first place (as said before). You make it sound iike people are just allowed to compare things if they are "the same" - now, how much sense would that make?

Broly is not an actual living person. He is an idea. An idea that consists of multiple aspects that people like and make the overall idea of Broly popular. Toei wanted to bring in Broly because of that popularity. But if during the rebooting process so much of that idea's elements are lost then the goal is missed to successfully introduce "the culmination of ideas that people liked which was the reason for him to be re-introduced in the first place". The idea was not as shallow as "let's bring in a guy called Broly" but what he stands for as people do not just like him for "well there is a guy called Broly in the movies" And if that is not done there is no point in briging him in. Fans do not want just a guy called Broly, so yes, he HAS to be A or B to an extent otherwise he was so heavily changed that the goal is not reached,

Same goes for the "Legendary nonsense" as you call it. It is an integral part of what people like about Broly. So that should also not be gone.

EDIT: Why is my whole text in bold font if I only wanted it for two words?
Letting go of what? I'm nor making the same point over and over.

Comparing them is natural but the new version already exists and isn't changing. What good does it make to keep saying "he should be this and he should do that"? He isn't and he doesn't and that won't change.

Yes, he's an idea and that idea has now changed so the old one doesn't apply anymore. This means no "demon", no "legendary", no nothing. You get him being controlled, you get his rage, you get his strength and you get his buff form which is practically all he always had plus it's all renewed.

The "Legendary Super Saiyajin" is what Goku, Vegeeta and their sons have. Broli's buff form was impressive but he wasn't special at all and never accomplished anything to back it up anyway.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:30 pm

Yo, just like for Battle of Gods and Resurrection of Freeza, how soon did Toriyama interviews come out? When [and If] should we expect some from this new Broly movie?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:37 pm

alakazam^ wrote:
Cetra wrote:I could ask you the same: Why don't you let go of this stance?

Broly is NOT a "new character, completely unrelated to anything in the first place period". He is a new version of Broly, the reboot of Broly. Any comparison with the old Broly is as fair as comparing the Ghostbusters reboot with the old ones or the Tomb Raider reboot with the old ones. That he is a reboot of Broly means that there is a certain relation between those two otherwise he would not be a reboot of anything in the first place (as said before). You make it sound iike people are just allowed to compare things if they are "the same" - now, how much sense would that make?

Broly is not an actual living person. He is an idea. An idea that consists of multiple aspects that people like and make the overall idea of Broly popular. Toei wanted to bring in Broly because of that popularity. But if during the rebooting process so much of that idea's elements are lost then the goal is missed to successfully introduce "the culmination of ideas that people liked which was the reason for him to be re-introduced in the first place". The idea was not as shallow as "let's bring in a guy called Broly" but what he stands for as people do not just like him for "well there is a guy called Broly in the movies" And if that is not done there is no point in briging him in. Fans do not want just a guy called Broly, so yes, he HAS to be A or B to an extent otherwise he was so heavily changed that the goal is not reached,

Same goes for the "Legendary nonsense" as you call it. It is an integral part of what people like about Broly. So that should also not be gone.

EDIT: Why is my whole text in bold font if I only wanted it for two words?
Letting go of what? I'm nor making the same point over and over.

Comparing them is natural but the new version already exists and isn't changing. What good does it make to keep saying "he should be this and he should do that"? He isn't and he doesn't and that won't change.

Yes, he's an idea and that idea has now changed so the old one doesn't apply anymore. This means no "demon", no "legendary", no nothing. You get him being controlled, you get his rage, you get his strength and you get his buff form which is practically all he always had plus it's all renewed.

The "Legendary Super Saiyajin" is what Goku, Vegeeta and their sons have. Broli's buff form was impressive but he wasn't special at all and never accomplished anything to back it up anyway.
I had a post then the window closed so I will only answer to that:

That is wrong. I already explained what Broly means to a lot of his fans. Including myself. Does my opinion as a Broly fan not count? Toei does not think about bringing in the idea of "someone being controlled because it is popular" or "an angry guy because that is popular" and that is very reductionistic. It is not practically all he was. Also i have a problem with your "the idea does no longer apply to Broly" as if the old Broly suddenly no longer exists. As said, the rebot is off-track if you remove the "awesome-hyper-super-mega popularity" things that demand the introduction in the first place. And if Toei really does not add anything of that in the TV version of Broly then they just should not have done it. I am not sure if you understood the point of my post or the point of bringing him in. Making money off something that is not even close to what they know that already brings in money is counter-productive and totally against "let us bring in the guy they loved". Right now at this moment this guy is just a strong guy called Broly with a hulking form and as said,what fans loved is not that simply but only the basic layer.

Also "why complain about something that won't change"? We might close 50% of the internet then.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:02 pm

Cetra wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:
Cetra wrote:I could ask you the same: Why don't you let go of this stance?

Broly is NOT a "new character, completely unrelated to anything in the first place period". He is a new version of Broly, the reboot of Broly. Any comparison with the old Broly is as fair as comparing the Ghostbusters reboot with the old ones or the Tomb Raider reboot with the old ones. That he is a reboot of Broly means that there is a certain relation between those two otherwise he would not be a reboot of anything in the first place (as said before). You make it sound iike people are just allowed to compare things if they are "the same" - now, how much sense would that make?

Broly is not an actual living person. He is an idea. An idea that consists of multiple aspects that people like and make the overall idea of Broly popular. Toei wanted to bring in Broly because of that popularity. But if during the rebooting process so much of that idea's elements are lost then the goal is missed to successfully introduce "the culmination of ideas that people liked which was the reason for him to be re-introduced in the first place". The idea was not as shallow as "let's bring in a guy called Broly" but what he stands for as people do not just like him for "well there is a guy called Broly in the movies" And if that is not done there is no point in briging him in. Fans do not want just a guy called Broly, so yes, he HAS to be A or B to an extent otherwise he was so heavily changed that the goal is not reached,

Same goes for the "Legendary nonsense" as you call it. It is an integral part of what people like about Broly. So that should also not be gone.

EDIT: Why is my whole text in bold font if I only wanted it for two words?
Letting go of what? I'm nor making the same point over and over.

Comparing them is natural but the new version already exists and isn't changing. What good does it make to keep saying "he should be this and he should do that"? He isn't and he doesn't and that won't change.

Yes, he's an idea and that idea has now changed so the old one doesn't apply anymore. This means no "demon", no "legendary", no nothing. You get him being controlled, you get his rage, you get his strength and you get his buff form which is practically all he always had plus it's all renewed.

The "Legendary Super Saiyajin" is what Goku, Vegeeta and their sons have. Broli's buff form was impressive but he wasn't special at all and never accomplished anything to back it up anyway.
I had a post then the window closed so I will only answer to that:

That is wrong. I already explained what Broly means to a lot of his fans. Including myself. Does my opinion as a Broly fan not count? Toei does not think about bringing in the idea of "someone being controlled because it is popular" or "an angry guy because that is popular" and that is very reductionistic. It is not practically all he was. Also i have a problem with your "the idea does no longer apply to Broly" as if the old Broly suddenly no longer exists. As said, the rebot is off-track if you remove the "awesome-hyper-super-mega popularity" things that demand the introduction in the first place. And if Toei really does not add anything of that in the TV version of Broly then they just should not have done it. I am not sure if you understood the point of my post or the point of bringing him in. Making money off something that is not even close to what they know that already brings in money is counter-productive and totally against "let us bring in the guy they loved". Right now at this moment this guy is just a strong guy called Broly with a hulking form and as said,what fans loved is not that simply but only the basic layer.

Also "why complain about something that won't change"? We might close 50% of the internet then.
The thing is it's not Toei who changed the character it's Toriyama, you know the guy who wrote Dragon Ball so he applied his own idea of what Broly should be according to his own Universe rules. What we know about said Universe ? The Legendary Super Saiyan was a concept (e.g in universe) an idea of a myth like the city of Troie, there is the reality of the Legend and the myth.

For use a parallel with Troie you have the legend with Achille conquering this city and the famous horse and the reality which was more simplier and less epic, just another war between cities state of the greek world. A sad war that Homer just romanced for the sakes of his story, there was no romance no magical thingy. So if I take the Legendary Super Saiyan, you have this myth passed down from millenia that the famous guy is a monster who wreck havoc and who kill anyone at bay (e.g how Broly is portrayed in the movie 8 and 10) but in fact the reality of this form is just a transformation that Saiyan have and that anyone can use like Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Kyabe, Caulifla, Goten, Trunks, etc etc.....

Toei whilst doing movie 8 & 10 stayed with the idea of the Legend but not on the reality of the legend. Reality which hold Toriyama in his Universe. So by taking Broly in his own Universe he changed the character to fit the reality of his world. I think there is a gap between a lot of fan of what the Legendary Super Saiyan should be and the reality of this legend as portrayed by Toriyama the author of Dragon Ball.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:05 pm

Cetra wrote:I already explained what Broly means to a lot of his fans. Including myself. Does my opinion as a Broly fan not count?
No, it doesn't count for the creative process behind this new Broly. The new Broly is inspired by the old Broly, but Toei (or in this case, Toriyama) is not bound to the old concept nor to any random number of features from it that you, or someone else, happened to like or deem popular.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:34 pm

is there anything on if Toma and the other saiyans in bardock's suad appear in cameos?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Burakku » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:35 pm

New
OK Freeza still acts like an idiot but at least the explanation about him not wanting to be immortal makes a bit sense seeing his past and of course the limits of Shenron

Still the 5cm are a shit wish to even risk getting being killed by Vegeta.

Instead he should search the universe we for New Namek

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BrolyKale » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:47 pm

mahakaishin1991 wrote:is there anything on if Toma and the other saiyans in bardock's suad appear in cameos?
They are not in the film, but there's one "guy" at the beginning of the movie who looks like Borgos (Toteppo) and that's about it.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TysonWine » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:59 pm

Cetra wrote:The main problem I have with new Broly is that his Legendary form - I have no seen it so I do NOT know it - seems to be completely void of anything it ever was:

LSSJ was "pseudo-invicible". He was beaten 2 times but only through the TYPICAL Toei shonen methods. Before that he always appeared to render everything used against him useless.
LSSJ in its nature and name had some sort of "magic" behind it. You just knew it was something special so you could believe it more. The name explains itself well enough and represents what Broly is on more than one level. If they introduce him as "Super Saiyan Full Power" this is just ... I don't know? They could at least call him "Super Saiyan Maximum" to get a laugh out of us because of the meme.
LSSJ is just now in its super version the caricature that people remembered from the old Broly. He goes on a rampage without actually living out the evil nature and fully enjoying it. And this one here, if that is really true, which it seems to be, is really getting rid of something even more important than the last two things I mentioned. As said I have no seen the movie but nobody says he does live it out and since he is such a "calm and not bad person" it seems they also do not show him enjoying that. Which would be no problem to show. They showed a change of character also for people like Gohan so it could be possible.

I HOPE Toei does that in the anime. I do not want him as a LSSJ as mindless as people always thought he was.
I just wanted to add to this. I think Toriyama would've actually made things easier on himself if he went the LSSJ route because I think it would answer a lot of questions that a lot fans are gonna have about this new movie. Being the LSSJ, obviously he's more special than anything that came before him, obviously he's going to make strength gains like never seen before, and it gives reason to why he would have different transformations. Basically, the reason to why he's special is already laid out by way of him being the "True" SSJ.

Remove that element from his character and you're left with a Saiyan who makes the most ridiculous strength gains this series has ever seen, just so a movie can be made and line the pockets of its creators. As a matter of fact, I've seen very little complaining about the strength gains this Saiyan named Broly makes as compared to the shit storm that came with ROF Frieza. The only reason this movie is getting a pass on that is because the character's name is Broly, which is naturally causing fans to relate him to the LSSJ of movie 8, a character popular for his invincibility and ever growing strength. This movie works largely because of what people think when they hear the name Broly, and it's disingenuous for people to be telling you or anyone else not to bring up Movie 8 Broly when discussing DBS Broly, especially when the idea behind the movie was clearly to bring back a character fans love and are familiar with. There's nothing wrong with those same fans expecting certain features to appear within said character.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:03 pm

PFM18 wrote:But that line by Toyotaro doesn't contradict anything?
Yes it does. There is no way one day passes in the present the same way it passes in the future. Otherwise Trunks would have to travel to the past (second time) from AGE 787, not AGE 785, which is the case. Also, by the time Goku Black appears, it shouldn't be AGE 796 if time flows the same.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:08 pm

BrolyKale wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:is there anything on if Toma and the other saiyans in bardock's suad appear in cameos?
They are not in the film, but there's one "guy" at the beginning of the movie who looks like Borgos (Toteppo) and that's about it.
ah damn, was hoping that the bardock scenes would have Toma in there somewhere

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Noah » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:11 pm

Burakku wrote: Freeza still acts like an idiot but at least the explanation about him not wanting to be immortal makes a bit sense seeing his past and of course the limits of Shenron
What limits? Shenron can pretty much grant someone to be immortal.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Bullza » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:21 pm

So how long is the movie? Exactly to the minute.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:50 pm

Bullza wrote:So how long is the movie? Exactly to the minute.
100 minutes long.
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