Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Bullza » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:00 pm

So only 6 minutes longer than Resurrection F. At least they've been making them longer with each other one but I would have liked 110 minutes.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:34 pm

Bullza wrote:So only 6 minutes longer than Resurrection F. At least they've been making them longer with each other one but I would have liked 110 minutes.
That's why we need a retelling. They could use the entire 3 hour script that Toriyama had for the movie. And of course, to fix the character assassination of Freeza in the retelling.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:17 am

PFM18 wrote: That's why we need a retelling. They could use the entire 3 hour script that Toriyama had for the movie. And of course, to fix the character assassination of Freeza in the retelling.
What was 3 hours was the storyboarding, not the script.
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:18 am

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:
PFM18 wrote: That's why we need a retelling. They could use the entire 3 hour script that Toriyama had for the movie. And of course, to fix the character assassination of Freeza in the retelling.
What was 3 hours was the storyboarding, not the script.
Semantics. We are still losing out on a lot of the material that Toriyama wrote.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:25 am

PFM18 wrote:Semantics. We are still losing out on a lot of the material that Toriyama wrote.
Storyboarding and script do not have 1:1 corelations, for instance the script could have a five words long sentence like "Goku and Vegeta fight Broly" which then Nagamine could turn into either a 5 minutes or 20 minutes sequence depending on how bombastic he feel like doing it.
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.
Fandom Lacks Critical Thinking and is Easily Impressionable with Surface Level Content.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:17 am

It's definitely possible that material was left out of the film, however I'm definitely not into the idea of leveraging that in making an entire TV adaptation when there's no guarantee that what was cut out was actually any good. It could be a massive waste of time, which would be a good reason to have cut it in the first place.

This is all said in mind of the fact that most of the best things in Dragon Ball aren't the stuff that takes hours to sift through. Similarly brevity and pacing are massive virtues for Super and the primary element that makes it so much more easily rewatchable to me compared to any of the other TV series, including Kai and GT.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Saturnine » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:00 am

Noah wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:If you wanted Broly to be vilain for then to be killed and send right into hell, well then you have the Movie 8 and 10 for that.
No? I want Broly to be a villain, but this time with goals, bringing the balance to the universe, maybe? I don't know, everything is better than another tragic (anti) hero.
Anti-villain in this case. Or just "an antagonist".

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Saiga » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:35 am

Shaddy wrote:It's definitely possible that material was left out of the film, however I'm definitely not into the idea of leveraging that in making an entire TV adaptation when there's no guarantee that what was cut out was actually any good. It could be a massive waste of time, which would be a good reason to have cut it in the first place.

This is all said in mind of the fact that most of the best things in Dragon Ball aren't the stuff that takes hours to sift through. Similarly brevity and pacing are massive virtues for Super and the primary element that makes it so much more easily rewatchable to me compared to any of the other TV series, including Kai and GT.
I can't imagine why you'd consider Super to have brevity over Kai or GT (well, Boo arc Kai I understand). It's by no means brief, I'd only describe the U6 arc that way and for what it covers that's a stretch.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:47 am

Only the Saiyan and maaaaybe Freeza arcs of Kai move at a really acceptable rate for me, it slows down later. GT I guess probably doesn't have that many issues but finds a million other ways to end up being boring anyway.

Super is written as a TV show first and foremost and it shows, is all I'm saying. Not episodic, but often times in just about every other DB series a given episode can feel like a drop in a bucket compared to the show as a whole, whereas Super for the most part has proper buildup and payoff to individual episodes, give or take a few missteps (and divorced from the actual quality of the writing itself).

Whatever the exactly reason, every single other Dragon Ball show would frequently leave me totally bored of just about every major battle at some point, and Super mostly doesn't do that (though that's not to say it doesn't get boring, it's just a more widespread and tolerable type of boring).
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:06 am

Maybe they'll do a remastered version of the movie by adding and taking things out like they did for BOG?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Saiga » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:07 am

Shaddy wrote:Only the Saiyan and maaaaybe Freeza arcs of Kai move at a really acceptable rate for me, it slows down later. GT I guess probably doesn't have that many issues but finds a million other ways to end up being boring anyway.

Super is written as a TV show first and foremost and it shows, is all I'm saying. Not episodic, but often times in just about every other DB series a given episode can feel like a drop in a bucket compared to the show as a whole, whereas Super for the most part has proper buildup and payoff to individual episodes, give or take a few missteps (and divorced from the actual quality of the writing itself).

Whatever the exactly reason, every single other Dragon Ball show would frequently leave me totally bored of just about every major battle at some point, and Super mostly doesn't do that (though that's not to say it doesn't get boring, it's just a more widespread and tolerable type of boring).
Even the longer arcs of Kai - Cell and Boo - clock in at 44 and 61 episodes respectively. Both end up shorter than Universal Survival arc, which covers much less ground despite the longer runtime. Most of the plots of Super are incredibly simple and do not match the episode count they're given, which is why the Black arc has really unnecessary details like the anime-exclusive middle trip to the future to pad out its 29 episodes.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:35 am

It's not about specific lengths, or what you might consider to be unnecessary, it's all in direction and pacing -- it's also incredibly subjective and really not what I'm trying to discuss here.

The point I was making is that regardless of all this, we don't know anything about the cut content from the film, whether it was interesting, exciting or even damning to the story being told, and while I'd certainly like to know what that material is, I've always felt that Dragon Ball is at it's best when it keeps stuff moving forward, and I don't think an entire TV arc of the Broly movie, added material or not, is the way to find out. Both of Super's attempts had very little to offer, and even if this new version had the mythical cut content that could supposedly be so amazing (which I'm still skeptical of, things get cut for a reason), I don't think it would succeed at feeling like anything more than a downgrade, the same as Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Saiga » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:32 am

Shaddy wrote:It's not about specific lengths, or what you might consider to be unnecessary, it's all in direction and pacing -- it's also incredibly subjective and really not what I'm trying to discuss here.

The point I was making is that regardless of all this, we don't know anything about the cut content from the film, whether it was interesting, exciting or even damning to the story being told, and while I'd certainly like to know what that material is, I've always felt that Dragon Ball is at it's best when it keeps stuff moving forward, and I don't think an entire TV arc of the Broly movie, added material or not, is the way to find out. Both of Super's attempts had very little to offer, and even if this new version had the mythical cut content that could supposedly be so amazing (which I'm still skeptical of, things get cut for a reason), I don't think it would succeed at feeling like anything more than a downgrade, the same as Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.
Oh, I can agree with that. We've been told the very first draft was too short, so I feel like whatever made the storyboard reach three hours of content involved a lot of throwing stuff out there and seeing what stuck. I'm curious what was cut but I'd rather just be given an idea through interviews rather than trying to create a televised adaptation out of the material that wasn't deemed important enough for the final movie.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:01 am

PFM18 wrote:
Bullza wrote:So only 6 minutes longer than Resurrection F. At least they've been making them longer with each other one but I would have liked 110 minutes.
That's why we need a retelling. They could use the entire 3 hour script that Toriyama had for the movie. And of course, to fix the character assassination of Freeza in the retelling.
No. The last thing we need is another retelling

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:13 am

If the production schedule is good I definitely want a retelling--hopefully one that can reuse the animation from the movie--so as to increase the overall strength of the production schedule and see what else Nagamine and the others storyboarded.

As for the length of arcs: even Dragon Ball Kai dragged out the arcs too much. The Saiyan arc is forty-six chapters and one can easily fit four chapters into each episode. That's only eleven or twelve episodes worth of content at the most, not seventeen like in Dragon Ball Kai. The Namek arc is eighty-nine chapters long, so only long enough for twenty-two episodes at most, similar to the next two arcs. Additionally, a properly written take on the Future Trunks arc would only be eight episodes while the Tournament of Power and recruitment would at most be probably twenty-three episodes if not less from ignoring less important characters (Gohan, Piccolo, etc.)
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by CTAkuma » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:49 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Bullza wrote:So only 6 minutes longer than Resurrection F. At least they've been making them longer with each other one but I would have liked 110 minutes.
That's why we need a retelling. They could use the entire 3 hour script that Toriyama had for the movie. And of course, to fix the character assassination of Freeza in the retelling.
No. The last thing we need is another retelling
It needs a retelling tho, because Tarble is mentioned nonchalantly and a plothole involving Goku and Vegeta not using their SSBE/SSBKK forms

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:04 am

CTAkuma wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
That's why we need a retelling. They could use the entire 3 hour script that Toriyama had for the movie. And of course, to fix the character assassination of Freeza in the retelling.
No. The last thing we need is another retelling
It needs a retelling tho, because Tarble is mentioned nonchalantly and a plothole involving Goku and Vegeta not using their SSBE/SSBKK forms
Evolution and Kaiou-ken are dumb and not necessary as pieces of the plot, so that's not much of a plot hole. The real missed opportunities is seeing more of Broli interacting with others.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 am

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:44 pm

Shaddy wrote:It's not about specific lengths, or what you might consider to be unnecessary, it's all in direction and pacing -- it's also incredibly subjective and really not what I'm trying to discuss here.

The point I was making is that regardless of all this, we don't know anything about the cut content from the film, whether it was interesting, exciting or even damning to the story being told, and while I'd certainly like to know what that material is, I've always felt that Dragon Ball is at it's best when it keeps stuff moving forward, and I don't think an entire TV arc of the Broly movie, added material or not, is the way to find out. Both of Super's attempts had very little to offer, and even if this new version had the mythical cut content that could supposedly be so amazing (which I'm still skeptical of, things get cut for a reason), I don't think it would succeed at feeling like anything more than a downgrade, the same as Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.
I think Battle of Gods greatly benefitted from the much longer SSG Goku/Beerus fight in the tv version while the RoF arc only emphasized the problems with that story and script. It's basically a 40-minute OVA script stretched to feature length and the added content like Tagoma and Ginyu wasn't all that compelling (in large part thanks to the other faults in that story). The Frieza fight still only lasted about 3 episodes and imo didn't need to be that long.

I think they likely will retell Broly for the same reason BoG and RoF were retold, but I don't think it needs more than 4-5 episodes to do that. There's stuff they could expand on like Planet Vegeta or Frieza in the past or Broly's developing friendship with Cheelai and Lemo or stuff like that, but from the sounds of it the movie hits all the beats it needed to hit without lingering on things long enough for them to overstay their welcome.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Terez » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:56 pm

BlueBasilisk wrote:I think they likely will retell Broly for the same reason BoG and RoF were retold
I was thinking the same thing a while back, but now I'm thinking they might not. Whatever story happens going forward will not be dependent on the Broly movie for context like Super was dependent on BOG and RF. But I guess that depends on whether they ever plan to tell a Broly story in the anime. They might just keep him confined to movies.

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