Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by CTAkuma » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:21 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Rakurai wrote:My gosh. Did Funimation really use the word "canon" to justify something about Gogeta here? What in the actual fuck.

Whoever runs Funimation PR is a brainless tool for the cancerous part of the fandom.
What’s wrong with that? Canon simply means something that is created by it’s original author. Gogeta in this case has been re-written and re-designed by Toriyama himself. Therefore, by the power of the dictionary, Gogeta is “Canon”. Wether you, or Toriyama, likes to use that word or not. Also, your last sentence is not within the spirit of Kanzenshuu.
By this logic, almost no western comic is canon within its continuity.

Anything official within the franchise can be considered canon until Toriyama, Toei, or Shueisha come out and directly state that such and such is the true canon. That's how I see it, anyways.
That's not how it works, canon simply referes to stories with continuity. Its true that there are multiple canons, the games, GT, movies etc. but the original manga is the one that's canon to Goku's story i.e main continuity

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:30 pm

Grimlock wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:Therefore, by the power of the dictionary, Gogeta is “Canon”. Wether you, or Toriyama, likes to use that word or not.
What!? So it does not matter what Toriyama thinks, there is a canon because you, GodVegetto91 from an American forum, want the franchise to have? :crazy:
Again, “Canon” simply means work by the original author. That’s what the word literally means. There are no ifs and buts, Gogeta is now being written by Akira Toriyama, and therefore, as far as the dictionary’s rules go, Gogeta is canon. What part of it do you not understand?

It’s just a word. Nothing more. What problem do people have with that word anyway?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rakurai » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:53 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Rakurai wrote:My gosh. Did Funimation really use the word "canon" to justify something about Gogeta here? What in the actual fuck.

Whoever runs Funimation PR is a brainless tool for the cancerous part of the fandom.
It's not only Funimation. Bandai Namco US can be something else too.
They just acknowledged No Nut November. :lol:
I don't usually mind when companies participate in memes, but for fanmade contests like these, it's just... something else. It shows zero professionalism.
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Grimlock wrote: Again, “Canon” simply means work by the original author. That’s what the word literally means. There are no ifs and buts, Gogeta is now being written by Akira Toriyama, and therefore, as far as the dictionary’s rules go, Gogeta is canon. What part of it do you not understand?

It’s just a word. Nothing more. What problem do people have with that word anyway?
Canon as used in DB and other anime is an urban fandom term that is used to exclude other bodies of work. It is not dictionary-defined as you say. The reason why it is bad precedence to use it is because it's often used to dismiss other spinoffs and works within the franchise, and often undermines them in a way that is negatively perceived by a general audience.

Do you see Bandai, Toei, or Shueisha labeling their derivative works from the main continuity as non-canon? Why don't we label SSB-KK and SSBE as non-canon then since they're not Toriyama's inventions? Why not just take the entirety of Super and say it pseudo-canon since Toriyama only provided some vague outlines which we'll never know of?

This is the kind of reasoning that Funimation is enabling. To hype Gogeta's reappearance into the big screen, they have to affirm he's finally canon as if being "non-canon" was a problem from the start.

And in a franchise like DB where canon is muddled, this makes it seem as if Funimation is taking sides to this whole stupid canon debate.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:01 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:Again, “Canon” simply means work by the original author. That’s what the word literally means. There are no ifs and buts, Gogeta is now being written by Akira Toriyama, and therefore, as far as the dictionary’s rules go, Gogeta is canon. What part of it do you not understand?

It’s just a word. Nothing more. What problem do people have with that word anyway?
That is not actually what "canon" means, but anyway. In addition to what Rakurai said above, I don't understand the part where you said "no matter if Toriyama likes to use it or not, it's canon". That's not how things work at all, and besides that, it seems the word "canon" does not even exist in Japanese vocabulary, sounds more like a nightmare for those who insist in the mistake of calling things "canon/non-canon" out of nowhere.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:20 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Grimlock wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:Therefore, by the power of the dictionary, Gogeta is “Canon”. Wether you, or Toriyama, likes to use that word or not.
What!? So it does not matter what Toriyama thinks, there is a canon because you, GodVegetto91 from an American forum, want the franchise to have? :crazy:
Again, “Canon” simply means work by the original author. That’s what the word literally means. There are no ifs and buts, Gogeta is now being written by Akira Toriyama, and therefore, as far as the dictionary’s rules go, Gogeta is canon. What part of it do you not understand?

It’s just a word. Nothing more. What problem do people have with that word anyway?
Yup. Exactly. We have a version of Gogeta from Toriyama, therefore, we have canon Gogeta.


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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:31 pm

Grimlock wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:Again, “Canon” simply means work by the original author. That’s what the word literally means. There are no ifs and buts, Gogeta is now being written by Akira Toriyama, and therefore, as far as the dictionary’s rules go, Gogeta is canon. What part of it do you not understand?

It’s just a word. Nothing more. What problem do people have with that word anyway?
That is not actually what "canon" means, but anyway. In addition to what Rakurai said above, I don't understand the part where you said "no matter if Toriyama likes to use it or not, it's canon". That's not how things work at all, and besides that, it seems the word "canon" does not even exist in Japanese vocabulary, sounds more like a nightmare for those who insist in the mistake of calling things "canon/non-canon" out of nowhere.
What’s there not to understand here? Gogeta is now part of the official story. That is exactly what Canon means. So Toriyama could say he’s “non canon” as much as he wants, it still doesn’t change the fact that he is.

But i agree with what others have said here. No need to continue this canon conversation further, so i’m just going to leave it at that. Agree to disagree if you want. I made my point clear. Have a nice day.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:28 am

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Hey me too!

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:15 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Grimlock wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:Again, “Canon” simply means work by the original author. That’s what the word literally means. There are no ifs and buts, Gogeta is now being written by Akira Toriyama, and therefore, as far as the dictionary’s rules go, Gogeta is canon. What part of it do you not understand?

It’s just a word. Nothing more. What problem do people have with that word anyway?
That is not actually what "canon" means, but anyway. In addition to what Rakurai said above, I don't understand the part where you said "no matter if Toriyama likes to use it or not, it's canon". That's not how things work at all, and besides that, it seems the word "canon" does not even exist in Japanese vocabulary, sounds more like a nightmare for those who insist in the mistake of calling things "canon/non-canon" out of nowhere.
What’s there not to understand here? Gogeta is now part of the official story. That is exactly what Canon means. So Toriyama could say he’s “non canon” as much as he wants, it still doesn’t change the fact that he is.

But i agree with what others have said here. No need to continue this canon conversation further, so i’m just going to leave it at that. Agree to disagree if you want. I made my point clear. Have a nice day.

That's what it is yes, the official story. It correlates with the main continuity where Toriyama is involved in.
It's very simple.
Gogeta was already canon in a sense (in contrast to Broly) because he was a theoretical possibility within the main continuity as soon as fusion was introduced.
It only lasted a while till we saw him.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:01 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: That’s what the word literally means.
No, that is not what the word LITERALLY means. Canon means literally "scale" or "guideline". It is an existing Latin word. That it means "work by the author" or "what I like and do not think sucks" or "something as consistent as I as a consumer allow it to be" is not what it means.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Konja7 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:23 am

Cetra wrote:No, that is not what the word LITERALLY means. Canon means literally "scale" or "guideline". It is an existing Latin word. That it means "work by the author" or "what I like and do not think sucks" or "something as consistent as I as a consumer allow it to be" is not what it means.
Fine. You don't need to use canon (although it is a simple word).

So, I guess we can use "official continuity" created by the author. Gogeta is part of the official continuity now.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:27 am

No, every continuity is an official one. It's not like all the others were made by fans (thus unofficial). The correct way would be "main continuity". Yes, Gogeta has finally appeared in the "main one". But that doesn't mean much, especially considering Goku himself suggested Metamoru fusion when he and Vegeta were inside Super Buu's brain. So, in a sense, his concept/very existence was always there.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:16 am

Grimlock wrote:No, every continuity is an official one. It's not like all the others were made by fans (thus unofficial). The correct way would be "main continuity". Yes, Gogeta has finally appeared in the "main one". But that doesn't mean much, especially considering Goku himself suggested Metamoru fusion when he and Vegeta were inside Super Buu's brain. So, in a sense, his concept/very existence was always there.
With that logic, Gokule and Puririn are canon, too. Just saying.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by FlpShimizu » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:55 am

This is not the canon/non-canon thread. Such a boring thing to be discussing, it's all Dragon Ball.

Anyway, does someone have an idea about the BD/DVD release dates? I get the impression Japan takes longer to release those, but this movie is a big deal for them so they may change that behavior. Don't know.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rakurai » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:35 pm

Konja7 wrote:
Fine. You don't need to use canon (although it is a simple word).

So, I guess we can use "official continuity" created by the author. Gogeta is part of the official continuity now.
Canon is a grossly misused and abused term.

And that is also the wrong way to put it. Every part of the DB franchise that is commissioned and licensed under the parent publishing company Shueisha is official. They have the legal and intellectual rights to DB. DBGT, DBH, DBZ anime, it's all official. Gogeta was always official, from the moment he premiered in M12.

Like Grimlock said, a more correct term is "main continuity." Things like Cooler, M8 Broly, Dragon Fist, SSJ4, Baby, Shadow Dragons, are not part of the main continuity. Things like SSG, SSB, Goku Black, UI are.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:55 pm

Another new promo ad.
https://youtu.be/iSx_tkEpLG4
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Forte224 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:50 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:Another new promo ad.
https://youtu.be/iSx_tkEpLG4
Ok Toei you can stop now.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:28 pm

Forte224 wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:Another new promo ad.
https://youtu.be/iSx_tkEpLG4
Ok Toei you can stop now.
Now I have even less of a reason to watch the movie (not that I was interested to begin with). They’ve showed the whole damn movie in trailers already

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:53 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:Another new promo ad.
https://youtu.be/iSx_tkEpLG4
Ok Toei you can stop now.
Now I have even less of a reason to watch the movie (not that I was interested to begin with). They’ve showed the whole damn movie in trailers already
That’s because Toei only exists to sell merchandise. If they make sure that as many people as possible see Gogeta, (and Broly aswell ofcourse) than that means more chance that people will buy their figures. Do you really think Toei cares about keeping the plot itself secretive to create suspension?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:27 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:Now I have even less of a reason to watch the movie (not that I was interested to begin with). They’ve showed the whole damn movie in trailers already
They showed only around of 5 minutes of non-repeated footage from a 100 minutes film, nowhere near the whole movie.
"But I already know the plot from all the footage" Well you don't know how all the 100 minutes are visually presented.
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.
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