Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Ajay » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:14 pm

Makaioshin wrote:One interesting scene that everyone is talking about elsewhere but no one is talking about here is when Paragus kills the third Saiyan (Beets) so him and Broly can survive on Vampa. I'm kinda torn on it myself because, while stuff like Yajirobe eating Cymbal has happened before, eating a human-looking alien just seems a bit too far. I guess there are plenty of real life examples of people getting stranded and forced to eat a fellow crew-mate but something about it is kinda overly dark. Wondering what you guys think?
The implication isn't that they eat him, but rather than they have one less mouth to feed. He shoots him following the revelation that they only have supplies left for x number of days.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:19 pm

Ajay wrote:
Makaioshin wrote:One interesting scene that everyone is talking about elsewhere but no one is talking about here is when Paragus kills the third Saiyan (Beets) so him and Broly can survive on Vampa. I'm kinda torn on it myself because, while stuff like Yajirobe eating Cymbal has happened before, eating a human-looking alien just seems a bit too far. I guess there are plenty of real life examples of people getting stranded and forced to eat a fellow crew-mate but something about it is kinda overly dark. Wondering what you guys think?
The implication isn't that they eat him, but rather than they have one less mouth to feed. He shoots him following the revelation that they only have supplies left for x number of days.
Yeah it only happened to save food, certainly not for cannibalism purposes.

But I tried to talk about it here! That was one of the most interesting parts of the summary to me.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:20 pm

Makaioshin wrote:One interesting scene that everyone is talking about elsewhere but no one is talking about here is when Paragus kills the third Saiyan (Beets) so him and Broly can survive on Vampa. I'm kinda torn on it myself because, while stuff like Yajirobe eating Cymbal has happened before, eating a human-looking alien just seems a bit too far. I guess there are plenty of real life examples of people getting stranded and forced to eat a fellow crew-mate but something about it is kinda overly dark. Wondering what you guys think?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Chuquita » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:24 pm

Does it imply they eventually ate Beets? How long did Paragus think they'd be stranded? Long enough to commit cannibalism? Obviously I doubt he expected they'd be stuck on Planet Vampa for 40+ years, but how long did he expect? Like several months or years? Is any of this mentioned?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Terez » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:02 pm

Ajay wrote:
Makaioshin wrote:One interesting scene that everyone is talking about elsewhere but no one is talking about here is when Paragus kills the third Saiyan (Beets) so him and Broly can survive on Vampa. I'm kinda torn on it myself because, while stuff like Yajirobe eating Cymbal has happened before, eating a human-looking alien just seems a bit too far. I guess there are plenty of real life examples of people getting stranded and forced to eat a fellow crew-mate but something about it is kinda overly dark. Wondering what you guys think?
The implication isn't that they eat him, but rather than they have one less mouth to feed. He shoots him following the revelation that they only have supplies left for x number of days.
I mean, they were starving, and Broly is wearing Beets's armor, and Paragus is wearing his fanny pack. You do the math.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:03 pm

Got bored tonight and decided to make this. Enjoy it now before it's inevitable copyright claim :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJj3O9O ... e=youtu.be

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Ajay » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:07 pm

Terez wrote:I mean, they were starving, and Broly is wearing Beets's armor, and Paragus is wearing his fanny pack. You do the math.
Better check if their pee is pink then. It's the only way to know for sure.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:38 pm

PFM18 wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Yes, the central, over-arching storyline is identical in both mediums, but the fact that each one differs on several details means that the execution of the entire arc's plot can also differ.

As far as animation goes, and focusing on a high budget, Shida's animation style is easier and cheaper to animate, so it shouldn't really be a problem assuming they don't go back to the old designs.
How about this?

Everyone keeps doing what they’re doing but Toei and Toyo work closer together as Toei gives Toyo ideas on how to fill in the blanks of the outline Toriyama has given. Then, Toei and the anime follow the manga and all its events with the only Toei exclusive content being expanding on points already in the manga (but Toei can still do filler in between arcs). And Toei has full control over the storyboarding and look of episodes and fights but can also use the manga as storyboarding reference if they want to. As long as the events, how they happen, where they take place, etc stay consistent.

And Toriyama watches over the whole process popping in to give his own opinion when he feels like it.

Also the anime staff at Toei gets a head/chief writer in charge of keeping track and consistency between all written episodes.


This is my dream.
So if I'm understanding this right, then the only discrepancies would be the anime takes their time expanding on things and has possible filler arcs? And it is otherwise the same thing?

If I'm understanding the rest right, then I definitely approve! :thumbup: :thumbup:

But how would the head writer be chosen? As far as I'm aware, we don't know how well they can keep things consistent until they have already attempted it and by that point it is already too late.
Maybe take someone from the writing staff who really understands the characters of DB the most like Toshio and then he can be promoted to the head writer.

And yeah, you’re understanding what i said right. I really feel like doing this would really improve the quality of DBS as a whole.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:32 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Miracles wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
I'm not trying to make this into a "anime vs manga" debate, I'm just saying I don't want the anime to turn into a manga adaptation without a story of it's own because I prefer the anime's writing.
I don't mind. The anime and manga didn't differ on the major plot points anyway. Only how to connect those plot points they varied.
I think it would give TOEI a chance to focus more on high budget anime original fight scenes.
>High budget anime original fight scenes. :lol:
I think a good schedule with decent enough staff would be all thats necessary. Maybe have Naoki Tate as a regular and have him on a schedule that allows him to produce stuff like he was at the end of Super, or maybe if a new show does come out to replace Kitaro, we could have Noboru Koizumi come on board and provide his fantastic key animation to a DB fight. It would be interesting to see how he would approach modern DB considering his unique take on the show during GT.

I think just having consistent talent on the show being given the opportunity to do good stuff, like they were given at the end of Super, would be really nice.
True. I remember this is what TOEI was complaining about concerning their animation issues. They named limited time and lack for the bad quality iirc.
PFM18 wrote:
Miracles wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
I'm not trying to make this into a "anime vs manga" debate, I'm just saying I don't want the anime to turn into a manga adaptation without a story of it's own because I prefer the anime's writing.
I don't mind. The anime and manga didn't differ on the major plot points anyway. Only how to connect those plot points they varied.
I think it would give TOEI a chance to focus more on high budget anime original fight scenes.
Yes, the central, over-arching storyline is identical in both mediums, but the fact that each one differs on several details means that the execution of the entire arc's plot can also differ.

As far as animation goes, and focusing on a high budget, Shida's animation style is easier and cheaper to animate, so it shouldn't really be a problem assuming they don't go back to the old designs.
The differences in writing details between the anime and manga are minute.
The important plot points and the events leading up to them are usually a match.
Therefore It would be no problem if the manga led the way for the anime to bounce off of.
AnimeNation101 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Miracles wrote: I don't mind. The anime and manga didn't differ on the major plot points anyway. Only how to connect those plot points they varied.
I think it would give TOEI a chance to focus more on high budget anime original fight scenes.
Yes, the central, over-arching storyline is identical in both mediums, but the fact that each one differs on several details means that the execution of the entire arc's plot can also differ.

As far as animation goes, and focusing on a high budget, Shida's animation style is easier and cheaper to animate, so it shouldn't really be a problem assuming they don't go back to the old designs.
How about this?

Everyone keeps doing what they’re doing but Toei and Toyo work closer together as Toei gives Toyo ideas on how to fill in the blanks of the outline Toriyama has given. Then, Toei and the anime follow the manga and all its events with the only Toei exclusive content being expanding on points already in the manga (but Toei can still do filler in between arcs). And Toei has full control over the storyboarding and look of episodes and fights but can also use the manga as storyboarding reference if they want to. As long as the events, how they happen, where they take place, etc stay consistent.

And Toriyama watches over the whole process popping in to give his own opinion when he feels like it.

Also the anime staff at Toei gets a head/chief writer in charge of keeping track and consistency between all written episodes.


This is my dream.
lol, A TOEI land dream I see. TOEI gives the ideas to the manga, then follows the TOEI idea filled manga, ie; TOEI following TOEI.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:08 am

I think having a definitive head writer for the anime that filtered the anime's idea's beside the series director and Toriyama would lead to a far more coherent series narrative wise than what we got in Super, where I don't believe that anyone officially filled that role...

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Forte224 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:53 am

Terez wrote:I mean, they were starving, and Broly is wearing Beets's armor, and Paragus is wearing his fanny pack. You do the math.
I mean, wearing his stuff doesn't mean they ate him. It makes more sense that they looted him like a Skyrim body. And like Ajay said, they killed him to have one less mouth to feed. I highly doubt Toriyama is delving into implied cannibalism.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by #17 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:23 am

Forte224 wrote:
Terez wrote:I mean, they were starving, and Broly is wearing Beets's armor, and Paragus is wearing his fanny pack. You do the math.
I mean, wearing his stuff doesn't mean they ate him. It makes more sense that they looted him like a Skyrim body. And like Ajay said, they killed him to have one less mouth to feed. I highly doubt Toriyama is delving into implied cannibalism.
Why? It's not like for surviving "normal" humans have done in real life as well
.
And we are talking about Saiyans here after all

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Cetra » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:16 am

Ajay wrote:
Terez wrote:I mean, they were starving, and Broly is wearing Beets's armor, and Paragus is wearing his fanny pack. You do the math.
Better check if their pee is pink then. It's the only way to know for sure.
Well, Broly turns green when LSSJ so he obviously ate Soylent Green.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Forte224 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:23 am

#17 wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
Terez wrote:I mean, they were starving, and Broly is wearing Beets's armor, and Paragus is wearing his fanny pack. You do the math.
I mean, wearing his stuff doesn't mean they ate him. It makes more sense that they looted him like a Skyrim body. And like Ajay said, they killed him to have one less mouth to feed. I highly doubt Toriyama is delving into implied cannibalism.
Why? It's not like for surviving "normal" humans have done in real life as well
.
And we are talking about Saiyans here after all
Because it wouldn't make sense for Toriyama to suddenly start implying cannibalism? That's a bit dark for him. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it's presented in the movie to get a better idea.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by #17 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:14 am

Forte224 wrote:
#17 wrote:
Forte224 wrote: I mean, wearing his stuff doesn't mean they ate him. It makes more sense that they looted him like a Skyrim body. And like Ajay said, they killed him to have one less mouth to feed. I highly doubt Toriyama is delving into implied cannibalism.
Why? It's not like for surviving "normal" humans have done in real life as well
.
And we are talking about Saiyans here after all
Because it wouldn't make sense for Toriyama to suddenly start implying cannibalism? That's a bit dark for him. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it's presented in the movie to get a better idea.
I have no problem with it

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:15 am

It's a very un-Toriyama approach to suddenly make Saiyans cannibalize each other and I don't think Kunzait's comparison to baby Broly getting stabbed is very apt (given that it's silhouetted, happening to a character we already know survives, and not even written by Toriyama). Moreover I think the thing is that Toriyama wrote that Saiyans are a warrior race of collossal dickholes. Toei largely adapted this with the ape transformation in mind, depicting them as grimy barbarians (not wrongly as Vegeta eats a citizen of a planet he conquered in his first appearance). Lately however, as has shown with Minus, U6 and this film, it seems he's going for a cold, more belligerent and distant approach. The disparity comes in it feeling like the saiyans we know would totally kill one of their own and eat him, but the saiyans Toriyama wrote would take a more calculated reasoning for killing him, and being able to determine what resources are worth it outside of that.

So all that said, the real reason I don't think Broly and Paragus ate Beers isn't because it's too dark, it's because that sort of random morbidity (which is different from darkness) isn't something Toriyama would write, even if it fits okay with the version of the saiyans Toei gave us for a long time. It's the kind of unnecessarily edgy you'd see nonstop in Dragon Ball Multiverse, not the controlled bursts Toriyama uses.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rubens » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:40 am

I agree, for me the summary does imply Paragus killed him so finding enough food for them would be less troublesome. Besides, according to the summary, didn't they find Broly precisely munching on a spider leg? As unappetizing as it may be, it is definitly a food source. Eating one of their own would be unecessarily gruesome in my opinion.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:40 am

Rubens wrote:I agree, for me the summary does imply Paragus killed him so finding enough food for them would be less troublesome. Besides, according to the summary, didn't they find Broly precisely munching on a spider leg? As unappetizing as it may be, it is definitly a food source. Eating one of their own would be unecessarily gruesome in my opinion.
bugs are a high source or protein, they shouldnt have a problem with that

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Rubens » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:13 am

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Rubens wrote:I agree, for me the summary does imply Paragus killed him so finding enough food for them would be less troublesome. Besides, according to the summary, didn't they find Broly precisely munching on a spider leg? As unappetizing as it may be, it is definitly a food source. Eating one of their own would be unecessarily gruesome in my opinion.
bugs are a high source of protein, they shouldnt have a problem with that
Indeed they are! Various cultures include insects in their cuisine. I just described as unappetizing the idea of eating giant spider like alien bugs - which Broli apparently enjoys? I wonder.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:21 am

Rubens wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Rubens wrote:I agree, for me the summary does imply Paragus killed him so finding enough food for them would be less troublesome. Besides, according to the summary, didn't they find Broly precisely munching on a spider leg? As unappetizing as it may be, it is definitly a food source. Eating one of their own would be unecessarily gruesome in my opinion.
bugs are a high source of protein, they shouldnt have a problem with that
Indeed they are! Various cultures include insects in their cuisine. I just described as unappetizing the idea of eating giant spider like alien bugs - which Broli apparently enjoys? I wonder.
At one point I had a very loose theory that these bugs (along with the green water) were part of the reason for Broly's green tinged super saiyan form, something in them affecting his development by exponentially mutating him

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