Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TheOne » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:17 am

MaGyunia wrote: for now, I'll add a few more elements later to the review. One last factor: in Battle of Gods, Toriyama said that if Super Saiya-jin God Goku was a 6, Beerus was a 10 and Whis was a 15. If we take this way of measuring, and this is pure and utter speculation, grouping together the relatively high number of new characters and stages achieved throughout the arcs of DBSuper and now the movie, here goes a small exercise (positive or negative criticism is welcome and expected): SSJ Blue Gogeta 13, SSJ Blue Vegetto 13, Goku Migatte no Gokui 12, Broly 11.5, Jiren 11, Gattai Zamasu 9, Kefura 9, Goku SSJ Blue Kaio-Ken 8, Vegeta SSJ Blue Shinka 8, Goku and Vegeta SSJ Blue 7, Golden Freeza 7, Hit 6.5(This is all highly, highly debatable, it's all mere speculation based on nothing, because there's nothing to base ourselves on regarding these).
Yeah I think the numbers are very debatable. Especially since the series is going to continue. We have no reason to believe that Toei will be able to handle the simple task of maintaining a proper power scale situation. We can tell that they already have a problem with pacing strength wise.

We have no idea how big the gap is between Gokus 6 and Beeruses 10. For all we know, Broly could be a 7.1 in the grand scheme of things. It’s clear that they have no intention of Goku passing Beerus yet.
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ironfist2020 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:51 pm

There was no need for the skinny and fat gogeta. Pointless and that meant frieza was getting pounded for more then an hour which is not likely.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:54 pm

Well... It is better than Movie 15 thank Dende, but I don't know if I could say it's the best movie. It has the same problem the series had: wasted potential. They really rushed everything just to get to the fight¹... :roll:

• Freeza says he faced King Vegeta in the manga but it was nowhere to be seen here in this movie.

• Bardock did not rebel, in a sheer act of defense, he launched an attack against Freeza's attack. "Rebel" is what he did in the TV Special, surely that word does not represent what he did in the movie. Also, hey, contradiction, we got contradiction here: Freeza does not see Bardock. Was Freeza crazy or something when first saw Goku? Damn, Freeza really needs a psychologist².

• The AGES that suddenly appears on-screen are exactly what one could expect, merely just AGES appearing on-screen. Nothing more than that. It's so random that really its only purpose is just to tell audience that time has passed. No real meaning here. But on the other hand...

• ... 41 years ago? AGE 780 - 41 = AGE 739. That means Vegeta was born in that year, which should be the year of the destruction of planet Vegeta instead. There is a five-year timeskip, so we jump to AGE 744, Dragon Ball Minus events take place. Goku was born in AGE 741 if we take Gine's words from the manga into account. Holy hell... :crazy: Maybe it's better to ignore it, but eh... That could have been avoided if the people paid more attention.

¹ Really, why? Why do they have to give too much attention to fights instead of some story? Instead of showing some relevant events? It was the perfect chance to actually depict the past of the Saiyans, establishing on-screen the recent Yamoshi thing that was added. Telling your fans what really happened between Saiyans and Tsufurujins. The movie was first announced with the tagline "origin of Saiyans power" or something, when in reality it was "brief origin of Goku and Vegeta"... C'mon, fights are entertaining but they really shouldn't be the main focus here, let them be to those freaking and boring tournaments and to decide a conflict, but do not make it consume most part of everything. Kinda nice to see Veku, Oozaru and base Gogeta for a brief moment, cool to finally being able to see Super Saiyan God Vegeta (even though his fight is once again rushed so Goku can jump in and play his role of being protagonist...) and nice that once again Tarble was indeed mentioned, now if only he could appear again instead of being reduced to just mentions here and there...

² I'm all for seeing other versions of Bardock vs Freeza. I liked how games and Episode of Bardock depict it in a very similar way, yet, being different from each other. I was sure the movie version would be different but wouldn't be better than the one seen TV Special. However, since there wasn't a proper Bardock vs Freeza in this movie, I don't know if I can even compare it with the rest of the other versions. Loved that Bardock's technique was more than just a single sphere, it was a cool-looking one and that he actually managed to hold his own for a brief moment indeed. But really... Bardock not going outer space and seeing Freeza (and vice-versa) is a potential major issue. I say "potential" because the version that it's in the manga is the TV Special one so hey... I can still consider it instead of this movie's take on it.

And then there is Gine... Very few scenes with her and she's one of the best things in this entire movie. Just give me more of her. She really needs more development (not saying King Vegeta and Bardock don't need, they definitely do, but hey, it's Gine, the very meaning of "cuteness"). I was not prepared to see Gine crying...

At best, this movie is in a top 3, but due to the massive wasted potential and too much emphasis on fights for no reason at all, can't really say it's the best one. I'm against a retelling but the past part urgently needs it. Probably if retold showing more stuff in details, it could be better, I don't know.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:17 pm

ironfist2020 wrote:There was no need for the skinny and fat gogeta. Pointless and that meant frieza was getting pounded for more then an hour which is not likely.
I believe the respective appearances of the two failed fusion variants of Gogeta were to portray just how stupid Son Goku and not to mention the likes of especially Vegeta himself are in general in the Dragon Ball Super series as a whole as the 2 Saiyans could have stopped any threat by nipping any by the bud, like Son Goku teaching Vegeta the Fusion Dance much sooner and becoming Gogeta once Son Goku became a Super Saiyan God in the Battle of Gods Saga. As for True Golden Frieza getting humiliated by Super Saiyan Broly: BR for well over an hour while Son Goku and Vegeta try to get a handling of flawlessly using the Fusion Dance in front of the likes of Mr. Piccolo, instead of trying to learn the Fusion Dance in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, True Golden Frieza must have gotten considerably stronger than he was in the Tournament of Power for being able to survive against someone comparable to even the likes of Jiren who would have molly-whopped a False Super Saiyan 4 Broly: BR like it was absolutely nothing.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Galan007 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:37 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote:True Golden Frieza must have gotten considerably stronger than he was in the Tournament of Power.

Makes sense. After all, despite the massive gains he and Goku received during the ToP, as of this film Vegeta still believes that Freeza can "get even stronger and beat them", and explicitly uses the gargantuan amp Freeza attained in such a short time during RoF as a measuring stick.

Heck, it's entirely possible that the events of the ToP alone bolstered Freeza's power significantly. I mean, the self-training Freeza underwent during RoF was almost certainly not as rigorous as the fighting/beating he endured during the ToP. /shrug

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:48 pm

Grimlock wrote:Well... It is better than Movie 15 thank Dende, but I don't know if I could say it's the best movie. It has the same problem the series had: wasted potential. They really rushed everything just to get to the fight¹... :roll:

• Freeza says he faced King Vegeta in the manga but it was nowhere to be seen here in this movie.

• Bardock did not rebel, in a sheer act of defense, he launched an attack against Freeza's attack. "Rebel" is what he did in the TV Special, surely that word does not represent what he did in the movie. Also, hey, contradiction, we got contradiction here: Freeza does not see Bardock. Was Freeza crazy or something when first saw Goku? Damn, Freeza really needs a psychologist².

• The AGES that suddenly appears on-screen are exactly what one could expect, merely just AGES appearing on-screen. Nothing more than that. It's so random that really its only purpose is just to tell audience that time has passed. No real meaning here. But on the other hand...

• ... 41 years ago? AGE 780 - 41 = AGE 739. That means Vegeta was born in that year, which should be the year of the destruction of planet Vegeta instead. There is a five-year timeskip, so we jump to AGE 744, Dragon Ball Minus events take place. Goku was born in AGE 741 if we take Gine's words from the manga into account. Holy hell... :crazy: Maybe it's better to ignore it, but eh... That could have been avoided if the people paid more attention.

¹ Really, why? Why do they have to give too much attention to fights instead of some story? Instead of showing some relevant events? It was the perfect chance to actually depict the past of the Saiyans, establishing on-screen the recent Yamoshi thing that was added. Telling your fans what really happened between Saiyans and Tsufurujins. The movie was first announced with the tagline "origin of Saiyans power" or something, when in reality it was "brief origin of Goku and Vegeta"... C'mon, fights are entertaining but they really shouldn't be the main focus here, let them be to those freaking and boring tournaments and to decide a conflict, but do not make it consume most part of everything. Kinda nice to see Veku, Oozaru and base Gogeta for a brief moment, cool to finally being able to see Super Saiyan God Vegeta (even though his fight is once again rushed so Goku can jump in and play his role of being protagonist...) and nice that once again Tarble was indeed mentioned, now if only he could appear again instead of being reduced to just mentions here and there...

² I'm all for seeing other versions of Bardock vs Freeza. I liked how games and Episode of Bardock depict it in a very similar way, yet, being different from each other. I was sure the movie version would be different but wouldn't be better than the one seen TV Special. However, since there wasn't a proper Bardock vs Freeza in this movie, I don't know if I can even compare it with the rest of the other versions. Loved that Bardock's technique was more than just a single sphere, it was a cool-looking one and that he actually managed to hold his own for a brief moment indeed. But really... Bardock not going outer space and seeing Freeza (and vice-versa) is a potential major issue. I say "potential" because the version that it's in the manga is the TV Special one so hey... I can still consider it instead of this movie's take on it.

And then there is Gine... Very few scenes with her and she's one of the best things in this entire movie. Just give me more of her. She really needs more development (not saying King Vegeta and Bardock don't need, they definitely do, but hey, it's Gine, the very meaning of "cuteness"). I was not prepared to see Gine crying...

At best, this movie is in a top 3, but due to the massive wasted potential and too much emphasis on fights for no reason at all, can't really say it's the best one. I'm against a retelling but the past part urgently needs it. Probably if retold showing more stuff in details, it could be better, I don't know.
I mean you did go see a Dragonball movie. A story which is based on fights, shouldn't really expect to find cheese in the bread aisle right?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:52 pm

Yeah, I saw a Dragon Ball movie, which should have been more than just fights by now. Story and other elements should have higher priorities, or become the most important aspects in this new 21st century, year 2018/2019.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:10 pm

The movie told a complete and concise story about Broly as a character. You're conflating your priorities of what the story should be about with the misconception that it somehow doesn't exist. Not that this is new in the slightest, but it's definitely doing a disservice to the film to claim it has no story just because it isn't about meaningless extraneous bullshit like the ultimate non-character Yamoshi or the Tsufurians who Toriyama has obviously never cared about putting in the story proper (which is good, because they're not interesting in the slightest). Constantly valuing a load of "lore" without thinking critically about whether it's meaningful or a well-told story is a massive mistake.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ironfist2020 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:15 pm

Grimlock wrote:Yeah, I saw a Dragon Ball movie, which should have been more than just fights by now. Story and other elements should have higher priorities, or become the most important aspects in this new 21st century, year 2018/2019.
i agree. it has weak storyline. i dont get why it has to be an hour and a half and not 2 hours and a half. for a much anticipated dragon ball movie years in the making. the Saiyan stroy in the begining needed to be an hour long

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ironfist2020 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:17 pm

Shaddy wrote:The movie told a complete and concise story about Broly as a character. You're conflating your priorities of what the story should be about with the misconception that it somehow doesn't exist. Not that this is new in the slightest, but it's definitely doing a disservice to the film to claim it has no story just because it isn't about meaningless extraneous bullshit like the ultimate non-character Yamoshi or the Tsufurians who Toriyama has obviously never cared about putting in the story proper (which is good, because they're not interesting in the slightest). Constantly valuing a load of "lore" without thinking critically about whether it's meaningful or a well-told story is a massive mistake.
it has story. just weak one. very very weak

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by IM21 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:22 pm

ironfist2020 wrote:
Grimlock wrote:Yeah, I saw a Dragon Ball movie, which should have been more than just fights by now. Story and other elements should have higher priorities, or become the most important aspects in this new 21st century, year 2018/2019.
i agree. it has weak storyline. i dont get why it has to be an hour and a half and not 2 hours and a half. for a much anticipated dragon ball movie years in the making. the Saiyan stroy in the begining needed to be an hour long
don't worry, the director's cut will be 20-30 min longer.

But even with those extra minutes this just won't be the best DB movie out there. After watching it for the 2nd time it got really near RoF. It gets a higher score just cause it looks better. The story for me is a huge disappointment. The first time I gave it a 6/10. Now i think its a 5.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Doctor. » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:24 pm

Shaddy wrote:The movie told a complete and concise story about Broly as a character. You're conflating your priorities of what the story should be about with the misconception that it somehow doesn't exist. Not that this is new in the slightest, but it's definitely doing a disservice to the film to claim it has no story just because it isn't about meaningless extraneous bullshit like the ultimate non-character Yamoshi or the Tsufurians who Toriyama has obviously never cared about putting in the story proper (which is good, because they're not interesting in the slightest). Constantly valuing a load of "lore" without thinking critically about whether it's meaningful or a well-told story is a massive mistake.
You could make a point that the movie falsely advertised its story. And I will make this point, because the trailers constantly stressed how this movie was the story of three Saiyans of different backgrounds meeting. You'd figure the movie would play on their differences and write a story around the three that adequately represented their different perspectives on "strength" (another point stressed by the trailers that went nowhere in the movie), but only Broly has a complete arc this movie. Vegeta's arc is non-existent, and he's basically forgotten halfway through the movie until he's needed for fusion fodder; and Goku's arc is incoherent, his attitude toward Broly is at odds with Gogeta's (which makes him feel like nothing more than fanservice, rather than being there to serve some kind of narrative purpose), and his 'development' at the end of the film feels undeserved.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Luso Saiyan » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:16 pm

IM21 wrote:don't worry, the director's cut will be 20-30 min longer.
We don't even know if an extended cut was produced, let alone how long it will be and if it's going to be released.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ironfist2020 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:21 pm

IM21 wrote:
ironfist2020 wrote:
Grimlock wrote:Yeah, I saw a Dragon Ball movie, which should have been more than just fights by now. Story and other elements should have higher priorities, or become the most important aspects in this new 21st century, year 2018/2019.
i agree. it has weak storyline. i dont get why it has to be an hour and a half and not 2 hours and a half. for a much anticipated dragon ball movie years in the making. the Saiyan stroy in the begining needed to be an hour long
don't worry, the director's cut will be 20-30 min longer.

But even with those extra minutes this just won't be the best DB movie out there. After watching it for the 2nd time it got really near RoF. It gets a higher score just cause it looks better. The story for me is a huge disappointment. The first time I gave it a 6/10. Now i think its a 5.
Where did you heard about a directors cut. No official source had said anything about it. I just heard toryama wrote a 3 hours script But nothing more.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:46 pm

So Gogeta is ready to kill Broly, but just lets Freeza go....
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by IM21 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:47 pm

ironfist2020 wrote: Where did you heard about a directors cut. No official source had said anything about it. I just heard toryama wrote a 3 hours script But nothing more.
I am just guessing it. But it is visible that there are some scenes missing from the theatrical release. I am sure there is more to the Bardock/Saiyan/Frieza story.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ironfist2020 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:19 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:So Gogeta is ready to kill Broly, but just lets Freeza go....
He dident wanted to kill him. He knew he will not die from this fight

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ironfist2020 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:22 pm

Anyone else is confused about the broly forms.¿. He was in a false super Saiyan mode the majority of the movie and wracked ssj blue goku. Then he just went normal super saiyan and only at the very end against gogeta he was in the classic giant form like in movie 8

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dragono » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:21 pm

A Man named RJ wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Miracles wrote:Vegeta developing by lowering his pride and finally admitting Goku being number one does not mean he would stop trying to surpass him.
Apparently, many idiots in the fandom think Vegeta should have turned into yet another modest background character with no ambitions of any kind after the Buu arc :roll: . Idk how anyone could find that appealing, let alone in character.

Literally nobody thinks or wants this. This is the flimsiest strawman ever, and you should be ashamed for even writing it out. Nobody has any issues with characters having ambitions. People take issue with Vegeta's current actions and justifications running directly into the face of previous development. and reqiring a retcon 10 years after the fact to even work. If you're going to give Vegeta a reason to fight, his REASONS need to change, and the story of his reasons would change too, which in and of itself would make the character, and overall plot of the main series eons more dynamic.

Just because Toriyama is a bad writier, and moved his reformed characters to the sidelines doesn't mean that's what he should be doing or what fans actually want. because throwing characters away at random is not good writing. - which is exactly why it's the basis of so much ridicule. And because He's not writing the main plot out anymore there is literally no reason not to find a different motivation and use for Vegeta, and the other neglected characters. Which would be a million times more fascinating than anything that The Goku and Vegeta show I mean DB Super came up with.

The fact that you could write that unironically, and call people who dont like Vegeta's flagrantly backwards development "Many idiots" it just boggles the mind..... Like do you realize that ambitions and motives can change?
Well, thats what is going to happen because thats what always happens.

This is dragon ball and we know how the game is played and if after 5 years of its modern version, you don't like it then you can't really blame anyone but yourself at this point for expecting and hoping for more.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:28 pm

Dragono wrote:
A Man named RJ wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Apparently, many idiots in the fandom think Vegeta should have turned into yet another modest background character with no ambitions of any kind after the Buu arc :roll: . Idk how anyone could find that appealing, let alone in character.

Literally nobody thinks or wants this. This is the flimsiest strawman ever, and you should be ashamed for even writing it out. Nobody has any issues with characters having ambitions. People take issue with Vegeta's current actions and justifications running directly into the face of previous development. and reqiring a retcon 10 years after the fact to even work. If you're going to give Vegeta a reason to fight, his REASONS need to change, and the story of his reasons would change too, which in and of itself would make the character, and overall plot of the main series eons more dynamic.

Just because Toriyama is a bad writier, and moved his reformed characters to the sidelines doesn't mean that's what he should be doing or what fans actually want. because throwing characters away at random is not good writing. - which is exactly why it's the basis of so much ridicule. And because He's not writing the main plot out anymore there is literally no reason not to find a different motivation and use for Vegeta, and the other neglected characters. Which would be a million times more fascinating than anything that The Goku and Vegeta show I mean DB Super came up with.

The fact that you could write that unironically, and call people who dont like Vegeta's flagrantly backwards development "Many idiots" it just boggles the mind..... Like do you realize that ambitions and motives can change?
Well, thats what is going to happen because thats what always happens.

This is dragon ball and we know how the game is played and if after 5 years of its modern version, you don't like it then you can't really blame anyone but yourself at this point for expecting and hoping for more.
I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but that strikes me as a very flimsy argument. So, because the franchise has a history of sidelining its characters, that means that people shouldn’t be allowed to complain about what they perceive as character regression?

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