Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:11 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:https://twitter.com/dbreduxtdc/status/1 ... 66594?s=21

SSFP was a shintani concept not Toriyama

As in the name of the form or the form itself appearing? I don't understand why or how a concept of Broly without his iconic form would even exist. I get reinventing the character, but the form is literally what Broly is known for.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Luso Saiyan » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:29 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote:I get reinventing the character, but the form is literally what Broly is known for.
Toei's Broly, not Toriyama's.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:43 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:https://twitter.com/dbreduxtdc/status/1 ... 66594?s=21

SSFP was a shintani concept not Toriyama

As in the name of the form or the form itself appearing? I don't understand why or how a concept of Broly without his iconic form would even exist. I get reinventing the character, but the form is literally what Broly is known for.
The actual green form.

I think Toriyama's trade off was Broly in SS not having any pupils.

Shintani's actual comments don't make it out so bad as he said Toriyama told him not to go too macho, so evidently Toriyama approved of it (likely did corrections too). People have to remember that idea to make Broly canon wasn't Toriyama's intially and then he rewatched the movies and got on board.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:18 pm

I really can't wait to see this movie. Especially after reading the interviews. I appreciate Nagamine's loyalty to Toriyama's script. He really understands the chain of command. He also stated that Gogeta and Broly's fight was brutal and that both were "pummeling" each other with special attacks. Yet many in the fandom claim Gogeta casually stomped Broly. Even went so far to say he held back. I scratch my head cause a fusion using their full power [Blue] and launching special attack finishers is NEVER holding back in canonical Dragonball. I'll have to wait and see the facts for myself.

So Shintani made Full power Broly from scratch. To give him his legendary ambiance. Toriyama approved it and didn't make many corrections to Broly. He just didn't want him overly macho.
Last edited by Miracles on Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Xeogran » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:44 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:on in a possible extended cut, which was already unlikely to begin with given the fact that the home release is only two months away.
Didn't the Batlte of Gods extended edition release a year later, after the normal-length one? I think we may still have a shot at it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Marlowe89 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:14 am

Xeogran wrote: Didn't the Batlte of Gods extended edition release a year later, after the normal-length one? I think we may still have a shot at it.
You're right. I was confusing Japan's timing with North America's, which launched its DVD/Blu-ray with the extended cut from the get-go, I think (as opposed to Japan, where the extended cut was released on home media a year and a half after the initial DVD/Blu-ray date).

Maybe there's hope yet.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:22 am

Marlowe89 wrote:
Xeogran wrote: Didn't the Batlte of Gods extended edition release a year later, after the normal-length one? I think we may still have a shot at it.
You're right. I was confusing Japan's timing with North America's, which launched its DVD/Blu-ray with the extended cut from the get-go, I think (as opposed to Japan, where the extended cut was released on home media a year and a half after the initial DVD/Blu-ray date).

Maybe there's hope yet.
We'll to crush your hopes again, RF still hasn't gotten it's extended cut release on HV. Both that and BoG one came from the Fujitv airing.

I don't think an extended cut even exists, the way Nagamine talked about making the most of resources, I'd imagine he condensed the original draft into 1h40m and then went from there.

So we just need to wait for Fujitv to air the film and we'll get our extended cut one way or another like RF they'll probably back and and make stuff specifically for it to fill the run time.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Skar » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:51 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Potara-Warrior96 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote: (though Super Broly is definitely way better than the old one)
That's debatable tbh.
Oh, definitely not. Old Broly was just a generic evil Saiyan like any fan fic ever with no character whatsoever, who's motivating by a crying baby. It's a joke. The New Broly movie is possibly the greatest thing that this franchise has ever produced.
To be fair, there are just as many fanfics out there that make Broly more a sympathetic and tragic character. I mean there's only two ways to write Broly. He's either an evil, ruthless SSJ or take a Jekyll/Hyde or Bruce Banner/Hulk approach and have him be a nice guy who struggles with controlling his monstrous LSSJ form.

I really enjoyed the movie but I think it's too early to claim it's possibly the greatest thing to come out of the franchise. I'm pretty sure the greatest films, books, music, etc were only up for that consideration when they stood the test of time and not shortly after their release. I think it was a fun movie with great animation and a lot of fan service but only time will tell if it's one of the greatest stories in Dragonball.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:27 pm

I mean it's pretty undeniably the most fluid and animated thing to come out of the series, that could be enough for people even if the story were just serviceable (which I think it is, maybe a little better than that). Dragon Ball's worst writing decisions have always been saved by really damn good presentation and execution, that's why the Cell games aren't a total laughingstock.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:53 pm

I think film experience will also determine how the film stands for a person. I knew very little going in, and so expectations weren't really set. And what I got I never thought I'd get in DB, they felt like they actually wanted to make a film and not an extended episode and the biggest takeaway was how the film wasn't about our heroes at all.

Then the direction was phenomenal, animations superb and the music was fantastic.

I don't think my opinion on the movie will change. Had the same opinion of The Dark Knight in 2008, over ten years later and it has stayed the same.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Skar » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:09 pm

Shaddy wrote:I mean it's pretty undeniably the most fluid and animated thing to come out of the series, that could be enough for people even if the story were just serviceable (which I think it is, maybe a little better than that). Dragon Ball's worst writing decisions have always been saved by really damn good presentation and execution, that's why the Cell games aren't a total laughingstock.
When he said "greatest", I assumed that meant greatest in most categories and not just animation. I agree it has some of the best animation in the franchise and that it's enough for most people but the same could be said about most high budget summer blockbuster films. Some films get praised for their CGI or action scenes but not their story and some albums get praised for their production but not lyrical content. I'm just saying that I think it's too early to declare it possibly one of the greatest things in the franchise overall.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Shaddy wrote:I mean it's pretty undeniably the most fluid and animated thing to come out of the series, that could be enough for people even if the story were just serviceable (which I think it is, maybe a little better than that). Dragon Ball's worst writing decisions have always been saved by really damn good presentation and execution, that's why the Cell games aren't a total laughingstock.
I think the story is infinitely better than serviceable, but maybe that's just me.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:08 pm

Skar wrote:
Shaddy wrote:I mean it's pretty undeniably the most fluid and animated thing to come out of the series, that could be enough for people even if the story were just serviceable (which I think it is, maybe a little better than that). Dragon Ball's worst writing decisions have always been saved by really damn good presentation and execution, that's why the Cell games aren't a total laughingstock.
When he said "greatest", I assumed that meant greatest in most categories and not just animation. I agree it has some of the best animation in the franchise and that it's enough for most people but the same could be said about most high budget summer blockbuster films. Some films get praised for their CGI or action scenes but not their story and some albums get praised for their production but not lyrical content. I'm just saying that I think it's too early to declare it possibly one of the greatest things in the franchise overall.
For the record, I'm not the only person to acknowledge the possibility that this is the greatest thing in Dragon Ball history, there have been several before me. It isn't exactly an especially controversial take, I guess is what I'm saying.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Skar » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:19 pm

PFM18 wrote:For the record, I'm not the only person to acknowledge the possibility that this is the greatest thing in Dragon Ball history, there have been several before me. It isn't exactly an especially controversial take, I guess is what I'm saying.
When The Force Awakens came out, there were some Star Wars fans who declared it the greatest thing in the franchise. The same happened after The Last Jedi was released. The fanbase is pretty divided with others believing it doesn't offer much aside from fan service.

In my opinion, a film that is heavily reliant on that probably won't hold up over time as the greatest thing to come out of that series. Based on how Toriyama mentioned about Broly's popularity as one of the reasons for using him and the director (or producer?) talking about how much fan service there's going to be, I don't think anyone involved with film intended for it to be more than just a fun ride for longtime Dragonball fans.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:44 am

Skar wrote:In my opinion, a film that is heavily reliant on that probably won't hold up over time as the greatest thing to come out of that series. Based on how Toriyama mentioned about Broly's popularity as one of the reasons for using him and the director (or producer?) talking about how much fan service there's going to be, I don't think anyone involved with film intended for it to be more than just a fun ride for longtime Dragonball fans.
I don't especially care why the movie was made, fan service or otherwise. If the movie itself deserves the praise that I am giving it, then I'm not going to hesitate. There was so much more to this movie, than just fan service, in this movie. If fan service was the stimulus, then so be it, the final product is all that matters.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Skar » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:18 am

PFM18 wrote:I don't especially care why the movie was made, fan service or otherwise. If the movie itself deserves the praise that I am giving it, then I'm not going to hesitate. There was so much more to this movie, than just fan service, in this movie. If fan service was the stimulus, then so be it, the final product is all that matters.
You said it wasn't an especially controversial take to assume the movie was the greatest thing in the franchise so I was explaining to you why others might disagree. If it wasn't clear, that was the point of the Star Wars example since some fans immediately jumped the gun and declared the recent films the greatest while others thought it offered some fun fan service and that's it. That's what I took away from it. I thought the story was good but the main appeal for me was watching the highest budget Dragonball film. The fight with Broly was almost half the movie if I recall. Maybe my opinion of the overall movie will change over the years but I do feel that's the point and seeing how it holds up over time.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ZeroNeonix » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:16 am

Miracles wrote:I really can't wait to see this movie. Especially after reading the interviews. I appreciate Nagamine's loyalty to Toriyama's script. He really understands the chain of command. He also stated that Gogeta and Broly's fight was brutal and that both were "pummeling" each other with special attacks. Yet many in the fandom claim Gogeta casually stomped Broly. Even went so far to say he held back. I scratch my head cause a fusion using their full power [Blue] and launching special attack finishers is NEVER holding back in canonical Dragonball. I'll have to wait and see the facts for myself.

So Shintani made Full power Broly from scratch. To give him his legendary ambiance. Toriyama approved it and didn't make many corrections to Broly. He just didn't want him overly macho.
I've seen the movie, and I didn't get the impression Broly was on Gogeta's level at all. Gogeta was just casually dodging Broly's attacks, and Gogeta was basically ragdolling Broly around the place towards the end, when Whis declared the battle is coming to its conclusion. When you see a smile on the face of a Saiyan in the middle of battle, that means they've clearly got the upper hand and are just playing with their food.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shad73 » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:06 pm

I feel like having seen this if Broly masters a’la Kale his Berserker form, he might have a chance against Jiren. I say that as someone whose favorite character is Broly; I don’t think he’s as strong as Jiren, yet.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ZeroNeonix » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:55 pm

Shad73 wrote:I feel like having seen this if Broly masters a’la Kale his Berserker form, he might have a chance against Jiren. I say that as someone whose favorite character is Broly; I don’t think he’s as strong as Jiren, yet.
Well, keep in mind that Broly hasn't had anyone to train with other than Paragus. Who knows what his full potential will be, once he's gotten some proper training with Goku. Maybe he'll even take a different path to power than the God forms, canonizing Super Saiyan 4.

But yeah, I don't think Broly is quite at Jiren's level. In U7, I think the order of most powerful beings are: Whis > Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku > Jiren > Broly > Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta > Beerus. I know people argue about where Beerus is in the totem pole, but I think Goku surpassed him a while back. We just haven't had the rematch to prove it for sure.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:44 pm

Miracles wrote:I really can't wait to see this movie. Especially after reading the interviews. I appreciate Nagamine's loyalty to Toriyama's script. He really understands the chain of command. He also stated that Gogeta and Broly's fight was brutal and that both were "pummeling" each other with special attacks. Yet many in the fandom claim Gogeta casually stomped Broly. Even went so far to say he held back. I scratch my head cause a fusion using their full power [Blue] and launching special attack finishers is NEVER holding back in canonical Dragonball. I'll have to wait and see the facts for myself.

So Shintani made Full power Broly from scratch. To give him his legendary ambiance. Toriyama approved it and didn't make many corrections to Broly. He just didn't want him overly macho.
As someone whose seen the movie many times, I can say that ssj broly landed about 2-3 blows on ssj gogeta, Lssj Broly landed 2, one which knocked the air out of him, and another that send him flying. However, Broly never landed a single hit on blue gogeta, ever. So yes, it was a clean stomp. What he meant by brutal, it was the brutal beat down gogeta gave broly, not each other.

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