Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Kenneth La Torre
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1584
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:34 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:13 pm
I am not so sure that Broly will appear much in the anime if it comes back.
As it should be. Not sure i want such a power house to become a normal thing. He should only Be a normal cast once that level of power isnt that rare, which it is probably after the moro arc.

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:49 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:34 pm
Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:13 pm
I am not so sure that Broly will appear much in the anime if it comes back.
As it should be. Not sure i want such a power house to become a normal thing. He should only Be a normal cast once that level of power isnt that rare, which it is probably after the moro arc.
I know I would appreciate such a power.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:52 pm

In Toriyama's recent interview on the Broly movie. He wasn't even sure if the Broly trio would make a return in the story.

User avatar
Metalwario64
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6117
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:02 am
Location: Namek

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:46 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:52 pm
In Toriyama's recent interview on the Broly movie. He wasn't even sure if the Broly trio would make a return in the story.
Wow....

Then what was the point in him surviving and Goku trying to become buddies with him and hinting that Goku would be training with him?
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai
"90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:45 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:46 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:52 pm
In Toriyama's recent interview on the Broly movie. He wasn't even sure if the Broly trio would make a return in the story.
Wow....

Then what was the point in him surviving and Goku trying to become buddies with him and hinting that Goku would be training with him?
Excuse me, actually he stated if he had the chance he'd have them play a role again. It sounds to me he isn't sure.

https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/11 ... 3637293056

User avatar
Baggie_Saiyan
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:22 pm
Location: Atlantis.

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:11 pm

He is talking about the trio of Cheelai, Lemo and Broly. Nothing implies we won't see Broly on his own without them.

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:14 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:11 pm
He is talking about the trio of Cheelai, Lemo and Broly. Nothing implies we won't see Broly on his own without them.
Yeah, you are right.

User avatar
Noah
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7593
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:56 pm
Location: Virtual World

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Noah » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:58 pm

tinlunlau wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:41 am
Just received confirmation that the manga version of DBS Broly is set for release on January 3rd, 2020 in Hong Kong. Kinda on the fence about picking this up. Any extra material on the Japanese release?
Is that true? It seems unfitting, since they could have done this way before.
乃亜

Top 10 DB/Z/GT Songs

Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:10 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:48 pm
Characters should appear for a purpose, to advance a theme or to play off of someone else or to serve as a good setup/punchline for a joke. They shouldn't be included because of some arbitrary fan quota of appearances. More Bardock, Gine and King Vegeta add nothing: their kids flat out tell us, the audience, that they do not give even the slightest of fucks to the first third of the film. That makes their existing screen time already a big waste of goddamn time. Never mind adding on more to it.

One of the biggest examples of what happens when you waste too much time on side characters is the anime Tournament of Power. So many episodes are devoted to pointless fluff that can be resolved faster or shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Turning what could be a solid, 20-25 episode tournament arc into a bloated disaster area.
This is a weak argument, because the ToP arc was a saga about a bunch of groups fighting for their right to exist. The "side" characters in this context are just as narratively relevant as Goku and Jiren since they are all in it for the same main reason. Yet both versions of the arc (especially the manga) failed to deliver on this premise.

None of the major players in the ToP arc should have made irrelevant (the fact that most of the 80 fighters are complete fodder is itself a major problem). Sure, spending to much time on (what ended up being) irrelevant fodder in the anime is bad, but Kale wiping out 90% of the ring before they could get any sort of characterization is even worse.

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:27 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:21 am
Grimlock wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:17 pm
I assume you are talking specifically about Raditz, Nappa and their fight, which is kind of besides my point (though it would be great to see more of them indeed, but in a different context, contributing a bit more to the tiny story the movie has). Bardock, Gine, King Vegeta and Paragus, however, should have got more (the Saiyans in general should, but anyway). Unless you think the fathers also have nothing to do with anything... :roll:
Paragus matters out of that lot since he directly informs Broly's whole life. The rest of the parents? Irrelevant. Vegeta doesn't give a shit about his and the idea anyone but Gohan mattered as a parental figure to Goku is one of the biggest loads of bull shit from this movie. Hell, when Paragus starts rambling about the past Goku and Vegeta both tell him they don't give a crap about any of that stuff! The film blatantly says its own first act is irrelevant to everyone except Paragus and Broly!
King Vegeta is the entire reason why the plot of the film even happens, so more focus on him makes sense narratively, especially with how this relates to Paragus since that's who he has his grudge with.

"Vegeta doesn't give a shit about his parents", which is completely irrelevant to how much of a role his parents should have in the film's story.

Goku has his parents' genetics, and Dragonball (and nearly all Shonen in fact) has always been Nature over Nurture (only Western fans tend to deny or downplay this). Characterizarion wise, Goku has almost nothing in common with Grampa Gohan, yet a lot with both versions of Bardock and Gine. So yes, this retroactively DOES make his biological parents far more important to Goku's character (narratively) than Grampa Gohan ever was (no wonder Toriyama has basically forgetton about him since the King Piccolo arc).

So no, it IS rational to argue that Bardock & Gine and especially King Vegeta should have gotten more sceentime and development in the DBS Broly film (which was marketed as being about Goku, Vegeta, Broly's backgrounds and "destinies").
Last edited by Sadala Elite on Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:35 am

Noah wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:47 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:56 pm
I have to give Toriyama his props for making Broly a powerhouse. Keeping his "legendary" legend status alive from the old movies. To be able to go head up with fusion, the strongest components in DB is something to write home to mom about. Then being compared to the protagonists most powerful, future rival, in Beerus, cements his ferocity even more. I just re watched it, it was pretty fun.
Funny to note that if wasn't Toriyama name in it, how many people would find ludicrous to have another Saiyan character with the same bullsh*t "prodigy" excuses that came from RoF movie that surpasses both Goku and Vegeta who busted their asses training for decades to be at the God Realm :lol:
This is a major problem with Modern DB in general, and it all began with RoF & Golden Freeza (wtf was Toriyama thinking writing Freeza's power and potential like that?) Not only did it permanently ruin the concept of God Ki, it also devalued Whis' training.

DBZ Broly actually had a good reason for being so naturally strong: he's the one true legendary SSJ that's only appears thousand years or so (hell, him being the LSSJ was the entire plot of that film). Whereas DBS Broly is just a randomly strong GoD-tier Saiyan for no reason (since the film doesnt adapt the LSSJ plotline).

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:46 am

Miracles wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:04 pm
Who else thought it was funny [Although entertaining] that base Goku could trade blows with Ikari Broly, who was bullying god Vegeta prior?

Man, when Toriyama says TOEI can go wild on the fight scenes they really go to town don't they? :lol:
Toriyama wrote the whole screenplay, which includes how the fights play out. So that was his fault for making Base Goku look stronger than SSG Vegeta smh.

All Toei did was the choreography for the fights, thats what he meant by them "going wild".

Dbzk1999
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 423
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:05 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Dbzk1999 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:11 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:35 am

DBZ Broly actually had a good reason for being so naturally strong: he's the one true legendary SSJ that's only appears thousand years or so (hell, him being the LSSJ was the entire plot of that film). Whereas DBS Broly is just a randomly strong GoD-tier Saiyan for no reason (since the film doesnt adapt the LSSJ plotline).
Literally, the only difference between the two is Z Broly being referred to as the legendary super saiyan more often. They both have the exact same actual reasons for their power, their potential being through the roof. One of those scientists or whatever in Super Broly even mentions how the baby might be the legendary super saiyan or something to that effect
Until the Battle is Won.

- WEST POINT, 2021

User avatar
Miracles
I Live Here
Posts: 3072
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:31 am

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Miracles » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:50 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:46 am
Miracles wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:04 pm
Who else thought it was funny [Although entertaining] that base Goku could trade blows with Ikari Broly, who was bullying god Vegeta prior?

Man, when Toriyama says TOEI can go wild on the fight scenes they really go to town don't they? :lol:
Toriyama wrote the whole screenplay, which includes how the fights play out. So that was his fault for making Base Goku look stronger than SSG Vegeta smh.

All Toei did was the choreography for the fights, thats what he meant by them "going wild".
Highly doubtful, since TOEI's director consistently stated they did the fight scenes themselves. TOEI is infamous for having ridiculous showings like that throughout DB. Base Goku and Vegeta smacking around SSJ3 Gotenks and Mystic Gohan inside of Buu for example. Toriyama doesn't have that nonsensical narrative.

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:27 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:10 am
ekrolo2 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:48 pm
Characters should appear for a purpose, to advance a theme or to play off of someone else or to serve as a good setup/punchline for a joke. They shouldn't be included because of some arbitrary fan quota of appearances. More Bardock, Gine and King Vegeta add nothing: their kids flat out tell us, the audience, that they do not give even the slightest of fucks to the first third of the film. That makes their existing screen time already a big waste of goddamn time. Never mind adding on more to it.

One of the biggest examples of what happens when you waste too much time on side characters is the anime Tournament of Power. So many episodes are devoted to pointless fluff that can be resolved faster or shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Turning what could be a solid, 20-25 episode tournament arc into a bloated disaster area.
This is a weak argument, because the ToP arc was a saga about a bunch of groups fighting for their right to exist. The "side" characters in this context are just as narratively relevant as Goku and Jiren since they are all in it for the same main reason. Yet both versions of the arc (especially the manga) failed to deliver on this premise.

None of the major players in the ToP arc should have made irrelevant (the fact that most of the 80 fighters are complete fodder is itself a major problem). Sure, spending to much time on (what ended up being) irrelevant fodder in the anime is bad, but Kale wiping out 90% of the ring before they could get any sort of characterization is even worse.
The ToP is the story of Goku telling everyone to come at him cause he's bored and then meeting the strongest guy out there, Jiren, from that. The other universes are there just to give some more scale to the proceedings but make no mistake: Goku and Jiren is where the story's heart and soul is. This is not to say you should Toyo them but there is a happy medium between the anime and the manga that wasn't reached. A fan edit of the ToP where the recruitment and tournament itself are cut down to a solid, 20-25 episode run is more than enough.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:29 pm

Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:50 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:46 am
Miracles wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:04 pm
Who else thought it was funny [Although entertaining] that base Goku could trade blows with Ikari Broly, who was bullying god Vegeta prior?

Man, when Toriyama says TOEI can go wild on the fight scenes they really go to town don't they? :lol:
Toriyama wrote the whole screenplay, which includes how the fights play out. So that was his fault for making Base Goku look stronger than SSG Vegeta smh.

All Toei did was the choreography for the fights, thats what he meant by them "going wild".
Highly doubtful, since TOEI's director consistently stated they did the fight scenes themselves. TOEI is infamous for having ridiculous showings like that throughout DB. Base Goku and Vegeta smacking around SSJ3 Gotenks and Mystic Gohan inside of Buu for example. Toriyama doesn't have that nonsensical narrative.
They did the fight choreography, not the fight outcomes (that's in the script).

And stop trying to deflect criticism of Toriyama by blaming all of his writing choices on Toei smh.

And absolutely nothing in the DBS anime and manga contradicts Base Goku and Vegeta being stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks since BoG. Its been consistently laid down to be this way.

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:30 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:27 am
King Vegeta is the entire reason why the plot of the film even happens, so more focus on him makes sense narratively, especially with how this relates to Paragus since that's who he has his grudge with.

"Vegeta doesn't give a shit about his parents", which is completely irrelevant to how much of a role his parents should have in the film's story.

Goku has his parents' genetics, and Dragonball (and nearly all Shonen in fact) has always been Nature over Nurture (only Western fans tend to deny or downplay this). Characterizarion wise, Goku has almost nothing in common with Grampa Gohan, yet a lot with both versions of Bardock and Gine. So yes, this retroactively DOES make his biological parents far more important to Goku's character (narratively) than Grampa Gohan ever was (no wonder Toriyama has basically forgetton about him since the King Piccolo arc).

So no, it IS rational to argue that Bardock & Gine and especially King Vegeta should have gotten more sceentime and development in the DBS Broly film (which was marketed as being about Goku, Vegeta, Broly's backgrounds and "destinies").
This post makes perfect sense, if you completely forget Goku's love of martial arts comes from Gohan, not just fighting, but the purest basics of martial arts and the idea of improving oneself is from him. And before you credit this to Roshi, Roshi doesn't teach Goku any techniques, all he does is push Goku's already absurd abilities to the next level. It was Gohan who actually taught Goku how to kung fu. Of course, Gohan isn't the star of a very popular TV special that nobody can leave the ever-loving fuck alone and doesn't have mega marketing power so of course he'll get sidelined for Bardock.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:33 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:27 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:10 am
ekrolo2 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:48 pm
Characters should appear for a purpose, to advance a theme or to play off of someone else or to serve as a good setup/punchline for a joke. They shouldn't be included because of some arbitrary fan quota of appearances. More Bardock, Gine and King Vegeta add nothing: their kids flat out tell us, the audience, that they do not give even the slightest of fucks to the first third of the film. That makes their existing screen time already a big waste of goddamn time. Never mind adding on more to it.

One of the biggest examples of what happens when you waste too much time on side characters is the anime Tournament of Power. So many episodes are devoted to pointless fluff that can be resolved faster or shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Turning what could be a solid, 20-25 episode tournament arc into a bloated disaster area.
This is a weak argument, because the ToP arc was a saga about a bunch of groups fighting for their right to exist. The "side" characters in this context are just as narratively relevant as Goku and Jiren since they are all in it for the same main reason. Yet both versions of the arc (especially the manga) failed to deliver on this premise.

None of the major players in the ToP arc should have made irrelevant (the fact that most of the 80 fighters are complete fodder is itself a major problem). Sure, spending to much time on (what ended up being) irrelevant fodder in the anime is bad, but Kale wiping out 90% of the ring before they could get any sort of characterization is even worse.
The ToP is the story of Goku telling everyone to come at him cause he's bored and then meeting the strongest guy out there, Jiren, from that. The other universes are there just to give some more scale to the proceedings but make no mistake: Goku and Jiren is where the story's heart and soul is. This is not to say you should Toyo them but there is a happy medium between the anime and the manga that wasn't reached. A fan edit of the ToP where the recruitment and tournament itself are cut down to a solid, 20-25 episode run is more than enough.
Jiren in both versions doesn't really interact with Goku until a 3rd into the arc. Hell, Jiren has no real connection to Goku at all, the only reason he even fights him is because Belmod told him to. Their fight is hardly the "heart" of the ToP story, and if it was then its a really weak one.

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7854
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:38 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:33 pm
Jiren in both versions doesn't really interact with Goku until a 3rd into the arc. Hell, Jiren has no real connection to Goku at all, the only reason he even fights him is because Belmod told him to. Their fight is hardly the "heart" of the ToP story, and if it was then its a really weak one.
Jiren keeps an eye out on Goku during the first third of the ToP because he's curious at what Goku can do. Later interactions add more context to this: Jiren is seeking what lies beyond strength, he's gotten as strong as he feels he can get and wants to know what more is out there. Fighting Goku also feeds into Jiren's idea of strength = everything and by fighting and smashing other strong guys like Goku, Jiren will endlessly validate his own world view. Hence why he throws a fit when Goku with UI starts beating him down proving that yes, Jiren's whole lone wolf act wasn't necessary and he really did waste most of his life being a loner asshole.

Besides, Jiren's like the only human in all of Super who tells his Hakaishin to shut the fuck up and get away with it. He's not the puppet of a clown he can beat. Toyo Jiren, though, is crap who randomly goes from superhero to an anime style characterization and needing his master to come back and pat him on the head.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

Sadala Elite
Banned
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:27 pm

Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Sadala Elite » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:40 pm

Dbzk1999 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:11 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:35 am

DBZ Broly actually had a good reason for being so naturally strong: he's the one true legendary SSJ that's only appears thousand years or so (hell, him being the LSSJ was the entire plot of that film). Whereas DBS Broly is just a randomly strong GoD-tier Saiyan for no reason (since the film doesnt adapt the LSSJ plotline).
Literally, the only difference between the two is Z Broly being referred to as the legendary super saiyan more often. They both have the exact same actual reasons for their power, their potential being through the roof. One of those scientists or whatever in Super Broly even mentions how the baby might be the legendary super saiyan or something to that effect
Broly possibly being the LSSJ has nothing to do with Super movie, its just a cheap shout out that's never mentioned again. So there's nothing to really suggest DBS Broly is just another randomly strong Post-Buu saga tier Saiyan like the ones in U6.

Whereas with DBZ Broly, the 1st film went out of its way to build up the LSSJ lore to explain that Broly's power. He wasnt just a randomly strong "prodigy".

Post Reply