Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AnimeNation101 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:39 pm

PFM18 wrote:There's still a chance the rebellion isnt retconned. There's still hope guys. The teaser trailer is clearly not going to be in the movie, for example. They could easily change it between now and then or maybe Bardock rebels in a different way. I dont know I just dont want to give up hope
Could be but nothing suggests that thats the case. I want to believe but i just can’t. There just seems to be more against the possibility of Bardock’s rebellion than for it.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by nato25 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:59 pm

Yeah I see now thanks AnimeNation.

Man in this case the trailer just really bummed me out honestly, I love continuity and DBS: Broly seems intent on destroying that. I'm someone that still hasn't fully gotten over Trunks Blue hair change honestly and I know that sounds dumb and probably isn't ok but that's how I'm feeling after this. I know everyones sad about most likely losing the rebellion and I am too as Bardock is a top 3 DBZ story for me, but at least I can throw that to being non-canon to Toriyama's work (mostly).

Seeing Freeza completely redesigned (it's not just his colour, his body is almost completely different and no lines where they should be, weren't they his muscles?), ages of characters disregarded and changed and who knows what's going on with the Battle armour now, I was under the impression it was a Saiyan invention that Freeza's army then took on and modified for their own use but I might just be plain wrong on that. Anyone else feeling like this?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Noah » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:01 am

alakazam^ wrote: But now (and in Minus), the creator of the story actually showed us what actually happened. Whether you liked the special or not, there's no denying the fact that Toriyama's version is what counts since he was the one to create Dragon Ball. When people bash Minus because of Burdock or "plotholes", they're actually saying they can't handle change because of their feelings. But facts don't care about feelings, so... it'd be better for everyone to understand the context and forget about the special.
Sure, but remember: neither Minus or the TV Special were attached with the original 42 volumes, so people could pretty much ignore them both.
Tai Lung wrote:
Man, Vegeta looks ugly on this pic... Is almost like a chibi version of his adult self and for real... A child who already has baldness? The TV Special and BoG (arc) handled that much better:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:24 am

Noah wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Seeing yellow SS at the end of the trailer almost made me puke. What a disgusting form.
Are you craving for attention? Original SSJ is the most iconic transformation of the franchise, if you want to play the different one, stating you prefer the recolors, that's fine. Just don't say asinities.
What? Someone can't hate the "iconic" SS form? The amount of crap people are allowed to spew I can't state my opinion that I don't only prefer the modern forms but that SS is generally trash looking puke inducing form?

Iconic or not (which it lost in the Cell arc) doesn't mean anything doesn't mean I can't shit on it if I feel it deserves it, which it does. Yellow hair green eyes... :sick:

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:27 am

There is zero point in changing Kid Vegeta's and 1st form Freeza's designs, especially when their original designs were in Super already.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:28 am

Noah wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:
Man, Vegeta looks ugly on this pic... Is almost like a chibi version of his adult self and for real... A child who already has baldness? The TV Special and BoG (arc) handled that much better:

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it is supposed that the hair of the saiyans does not change but both are fine for me

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:29 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Noah wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Seeing yellow SS at the end of the trailer almost made me puke. What a disgusting form.
Are you craving for attention? Original SSJ is the most iconic transformation of the franchise, if you want to play the different one, stating you prefer the recolors, that's fine. Just don't say asinities.
What? Someone can't hate the "iconic" SS form? The amount of crap people are allowed to spew I can't state my opinion that I don't only prefer the modern forms but that SS is generally trash looking puke inducing form?

Iconic or not (which it lost in the Cell arc) doesn't mean anything doesn't mean I can't shit on it if I feel it deserves it, which it does. Yellow hair green eyes... :sick:
So you don't like blond hair and blue/green eyes (a realistic combo) and prefer the lazy recolor forms?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by alakazam^ » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:41 am

ricky84 wrote:So you don't like blond hair and blue/green eyes (a realistic combo) and prefer the lazy recolor forms?
There's nothing lazy about them.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by precita » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:43 am

PFM18 wrote:There's still a chance the rebellion isnt retconned. There's still hope guys. The teaser trailer is clearly not going to be in the movie, for example. They could easily change it between now and then or maybe Bardock rebels in a different way. I dont know I just dont want to give up hope
I don't know, this Bardock doesn't seem like he will don a bandana and his own armor, and try to confront Freeza in space. That scene from the special/anime is so iconic with Freeza forming the giant death ball killing Bardock along with Planet Vegeta.

If that's been retconned...good god. I don't feel so good. Almost makes me want to vomit.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:57 am

alakazam^ wrote:
ricky84 wrote:So you don't like blond hair and blue/green eyes (a realistic combo) and prefer the lazy recolor forms?
There's nothing lazy about them.
SSG and UI Omen are somewhat creative both aesthetically and conceptually, but SSB and MUI are basically just recolor's (the former of SSJ1and latter of SSG)

The concept/ideas behind SSBE and SSJ Rage are good, but aesthetically they are lazy. SSBE in design is bascially just Ascended/Grade 2 SSJ with blue hair, while SSJ Rage is just SSJ2 with a little more lightning and Broly eyes.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by MainJPW » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:13 am

Noah wrote: Man, Vegeta looks ugly on this pic... Is almost like a chibi version of his adult self and for real... A child who already has baldness? The TV Special and BoG (arc) handled that much better:
Baldness? Isn’t it just an exaggerated widows peak?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by alakazam^ » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:15 am

ricky84 wrote:SSG and UI Omen are somewhat creative both aesthetically and conceptually, but SSB and MUI are basically just recolor's (the former of SSJ1and latter of SSG)

The concept/ideas behind SSBE and SSJ Rage are good, but aesthetically they are lazy. SSBE in design is bascially just Ascended/Grade 2 SSJ with blue hair, while SSJ Rage is just SSJ2 with a little more lightning and Broly eyes.
You don't seem to know what lazy means because being a recolor does not make something lazy, which was my point.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Jaetinh » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:17 am

Even though I've been a Dragon Ball fan for around 20 years (and I'm 25 years old), constantly still following Dragon Ball and it being my favorite manga/anime of all time, this whole Bardock retcon and Minus doesn't bother me at all. I'm still going to enjoy this movie.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by lancerman » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:20 am

MainJPW wrote:
Noah wrote: Man, Vegeta looks ugly on this pic... Is almost like a chibi version of his adult self and for real... A child who already has baldness? The TV Special and BoG (arc) handled that much better:
Baldness? Isn’t it just an exaggerated widows peak?
Yup lol. I've never looked at Vegeta and thought "balding"

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:28 am

ricky84 wrote:There is zero point in changing Kid Vegeta's and 1st form Freeza's designs, especially when their original designs were in Super already.
Except Vegeta's kid hair being different from his adult hair is a contradiction of Saiyan biology. That was a GOOD change. Of all the things to complain about in the trailer, Vegeta's hair is not one of them.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TonyTheTiger » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:48 am

Jackalope89 wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote: Exactly.

I know the Bardock Special is particularly popular, but other than character designs, Toriyama had nothing to do with it like the other Specials and Films.

But something that always struck as odd from the special, despite information to the contrary, was that Bardock was supposed to be someone that cared about the existence of his fellow Saiyans (and his compassion ended there). Whereas in the Special, he showed care for his teammates (okay, inline with him), kind of to his race (still there), but indifferent to Goku (huh?).

And I'm not going to freak out about Minus content being included, partly because I don't hate it, but also because we haven't seen the actual film yet to know how well its done.
Why does everyone forget that the scenes of Bardock’s rebellion where he takes on the Freeza army as in the manga?
Why does everyone forget that Toriyama retcons his work almost constantly anyway? Its not like a brief scene made all that much difference anyway in the way the story unfolded.
Bardock still didn't trust Freeza.
Goku still left the planet before it went boom.
Bardock on most of the other Saiyans were still on the planet when Freeza blew it up.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's simply not entirely his work anymore. At this point dozens of people have contributed to the Dragon Ball franchise and left indelible marks that all make up what Dragon Ball "is." At some point the "Akira Toriyama didn't do it therefore it's irrelevant" rigidity cannot sustain itself. That's not how you respect a legacy, it's how you strangle it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Bullza » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:07 am

So are they retcomning Vegeta's age?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by sintzu » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:19 am

Jaetinh wrote:Even though I've been a Dragon Ball fan for around 20 years (and I'm 25 years old), constantly still following Dragon Ball and it being my favorite manga/anime of all time, this whole Bardock retcon and Minus doesn't bother me at all. I'm still going to enjoy this movie.
The changes won't determine whether or not the movie is enjoyable, it's just annoying seeing things that have been established for 23 years being changed for no reason. It also doesn't help that the changes are being done in a movie that's already covering old ground so you've got a mixture of retcons and reused concepts to deal with in a revival that already heavily relies on nostalgia.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Michsi » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:20 am

PFM18 wrote:
ricky84 wrote:There is zero point in changing Kid Vegeta's and 1st form Freeza's designs, especially when their original designs were in Super already.
Except Vegeta's kid hair being different from his adult hair is a contradiction of Saiyan biology. That was a GOOD change. Of all the things to complain about in the trailer, Vegeta's hair is not one of them.

Also, it stops making it look like he has a receding hairline.


King Vegeta,though. Don't know what to say about that facial hair.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by TonyTheTiger » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:41 am

sintzu wrote:
Jaetinh wrote:Even though I've been a Dragon Ball fan for around 20 years (and I'm 25 years old), constantly still following Dragon Ball and it being my favorite manga/anime of all time, this whole Bardock retcon and Minus doesn't bother me at all. I'm still going to enjoy this movie.
The changes won't determine whether or not the movie is enjoyable, it's just annoying seeing things that have been established for 23 years being changed for no reason. It also doesn't help that the changes are being done in a movie that's already covering old ground so you've got a mixture of retcons and reused concepts to deal with in a revival that already heavily relies on nostalgia.
That's exactly how I feel about it. I don't really "care" in the sense that I'm against changing things but the way they've been going about it lately is just weird and directionless. I feel the same way about this that I do about the bizarre decision to retell the last two movies at the beginning of Super with a bunch of little changes and the funny business with Trunks's hair color. The inconsistencies don't seem to advance any kind of purpose--it's things being different just because while still nominally being the same ongoing story.

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