Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:18 pm

Shaddy wrote:
Mewzard wrote: And guess what opens Minus?

Image

Killing off a planet's inhabitants with no moral qualms whatsoever.

How is he any less of a random-ass low class nobody?
Point taken, but he still doesn't have the abrasive attitude or slasher smile a lot of the time, and he just magically knows Freeza's gonna blow up the planet without being implanted with any future-vision in minus.
LightBing wrote: Bardock is special. They made him the second strongest Saiyan, growing to the point he "might catch up King Vegeta", making him and his crew targeted by Dodoria. They are only on Kanassa because it's an extremely difficult task who elites were dodging.

Him being inserted with the plot directly in the head isn't random, it's because he was the leader of Kanassian genocide. He's absolutely special and get's an undeserved bittersweet ending by smiling watching his son(who he didn't care about) avenge him and the Saiyan race.

I love Bardock's special but it has a lot of problems, I feel like people are putting it in a pedestal.
Fair enough, I guess he's not a complete nothing, though they definitely clearly still want you to think of him in that sense. All of his dialogue and actions are still more boring in Minus, regardless.

Also protip: stereotypical ideas of "manliness" are inherently sexist even if you don't personally believe them to be harmful. Fuck off if you're gonna call anyone who follows this school of thought an evil essjaydabyew just because you don't like it.
Sexism is the belief that one gender is inherently superior to the other.

Pointing out innate differences between males and females, and that some acts/behaviors are inherently "masculine" or "feminine" is not sexist because you aren't making any value judgements between the 2.

That's a distinction SJWs and other PC idoits fail to realize.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Doctor. » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:26 pm

Imagine saying "dying like a man" is sexist and problematic.

It's a normal expression.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:26 pm

ricky84 wrote:
Shaddy wrote:
Mewzard wrote: And guess what opens Minus?

Image

Killing off a planet's inhabitants with no moral qualms whatsoever.

How is he any less of a random-ass low class nobody?
Point taken, but he still doesn't have the abrasive attitude or slasher smile a lot of the time, and he just magically knows Freeza's gonna blow up the planet without being implanted with any future-vision in minus.
If someone came to America with an army and forces the president to bow down to them, would you trust them? I don´t think so.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Mewzard » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:38 pm

Shaddy wrote:Point taken, but he still doesn't have the abrasive attitude or slasher smile a lot of the time, and he just magically knows Freeza's gonna blow up the planet without being implanted with any future-vision in minus.
He seems to be smiling in a sinister way when he's kicking an alien's face in, he only starts frowning once they leave.

Magically? Their entire race is called back home, he sees Freeza's ship in orbit around the planet, and he learns Freeza is asking about the Legendary Super Saiyan, a being of great power, said to be the greatest warrior in the universe.

That's more putting two and two together and preparing for the worse, following a bad feeling he has (if it's nothing, they'll pick him up afterwards).
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:48 pm

Not excited about the film incorporating Dragon Ball Minus, but at least I'll watch it to see if it's good.

I'm disappointed that Banjo Ginga isn't reprising King Vegeta. I suppose Masako Nozawa reprising Bardock was always going to happen, but what would I give to hear Akira Kamiya in the role.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:48 pm

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:Yeah, without the rebellion scene it changes literally nothing. Absolutely nothing changes.
Well, except for stripping the character of his most defining moment and altering the nature of the heritage of the main character.

Vegeta's father was the King of the Saiyans.
Goku's father was the man who lead the rebellion against their overlord despite being a nobody.

Without the rebellion scene, there is no scene of Freeza recognizing Goku as Bardock's son either. Not to mention it would blatantly contradict the original manga

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by AnimeNation101 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:56 pm

Mewzard wrote:
Shaddy wrote:Point taken, but he still doesn't have the abrasive attitude or slasher smile a lot of the time, and he just magically knows Freeza's gonna blow up the planet without being implanted with any future-vision in minus.
He seems to be smiling in a sinister way when he's kicking an alien's face in, he only starts frowning once they leave.

Magically? Their entire race is called back home, he sees Freeza's ship in orbit around the planet, and he learns Freeza is asking about the Legendary Super Saiyan, a being of great power, said to be the greatest warrior in the universe.

That's more putting two and two together and preparing for the worse, following a bad feeling he has (if it's nothing, they'll pick him up afterwards).
Thats another problem i have. So Bardock is not only rare among saiyans by being a softie for no reason but also happens to be the only saiyan to figure out Freeza’s plan for no reason. Bardock from the special is givin a reason. This Bardock is just a special case for no reason.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:58 pm

ricky84 wrote:He died like a man in the 90s special. That's the point of people's beef with DB Minus.
What's manly about how Borduck died in the 90s special exactly?
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by alakazam^ » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:00 pm

ricky84 wrote:Sexism is the belief that one gender is inherently superior to the other.

Pointing out innate differences between males and females, and that some acts/behaviors are inherently "masculine" or "feminine" is not sexist because you aren't making any value judgements between the 2.
Yeah, and dieing isn't one of them, thanks to prove my point. I could even take the definition you provided and ask you in what way Minus Burdock died, since it was different from the "manly death" 90's Budock had, but we all know there's only one answer you could give and I doubt you'd want to.

Also, made-up Internet slang is meaningless, at least write the full words.
Doctor. wrote:Imagine saying "dying like a man" is sexist and problematic.

It's a normal expression.
It being sexist doesn't mean it has to be problematic. Also, taken at face value, it doesn't even mean anything so using it to compare two versions of the same person is pretty silly.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Shaddy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:06 pm

Doctor. wrote:Imagine saying "dying like a man" is sexist and problematic.
It's a normal expression.
"Normal" doesn't equal "not sexist". Is that term being used here causing trauma for any specific individual at this very moment? Prrrrobably not. But it is sexist, and it's good to acknowledge those things when you say them. There's no harm in learning to think about what the phrases you repeat mean before you say them, even if you don't change your mannerisms in the slightest.
ricky84 wrote: Sexism is the belief that one gender is inherently superior to the other.
Pointing out innate differences between males and females, and that some acts/behaviors are inherently "masculine" or "feminine" is not sexist because you aren't making any value judgements between the 2.
That's a distinction SJWs and other PC idoits fail to realize.
Except you're conflating the idea of statistically masculine behavior with the glorified idea of "being a man", something based in stereotype and which totally is judgmental and even discriminatory in some cases because of the implication that those who don't fall under it's poorly-defined blanket are then not secure or valid in their own gender. And again, calling the people you disagree with "PC idoits" really doesn't help your case in looking anything other than close-minded.
Aaaaaanyway, aside from all this stuff I never meant to have anything to do with, both of these:
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:If someone came to America with an army and forces the president to bow down to them, would you trust them? I don´t think so.
Mewzard wrote:That's more putting two and two together and preparing for the worse, following a bad feeling he has (if it's nothing, they'll pick him up afterwards).
Why only Bardock then? There's not much specific to him about this version of the story, so what exactly is the reason he and he alone realizes some bad shit is about to go down and sends his son away? Better question, why not run away with him? I suppose he and Gine could be punished if it's a false alarm and they aren't there when Freeza wants them to be, but Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz were off-planet and they seemed to be fine.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by LightBing » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:19 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:Thats another problem i have. So Bardock is not only rare among saiyans by being a softie for no reason but also happens to be the only saiyan to figure out Freeza’s plan for no reason. Bardock from the special is givin a reason. This Bardock is just a special case for no reason.
He isn't soft for no reason he said Gine rubbed off on him. Bardock in the special is soft for no reason then, why does he care about his team? That's anti-Saiyan as well. The cognitive dissonance is quite something, people always throwing Minus down because Bardock is soft yet special Bardock has the exact same trait only it's pointed to his team.

He figures out Freeza because he has a brain, the other Bardock figures it out due to brain damage. :lol:

I'm with you on one point, it's dumb if Bardock is the only one figuring Freeza out, it's super suspicious.
However we don't know how that bit develops because Minus didn't show us; assuming Mr.Toriyama remembered about his on manga then Bardock would die the same way. The difference would probably be instead of being alone, Minus Bardock tried during the month gather resistance and might had with him like minded Saiyans. We shall see.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:22 pm

Shaddy wrote:Why only Bardock then? There's not much specific to him about this version of the story, so what exactly is the reason he and he alone realizes some bad shit is about to go down and sends his son away? Better question, why not run away with him? I suppose he and Gine could be punished if it's a false alarm and they aren't there when Freeza wants them to be, but Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz were off-planet and they seemed to be fine.
Gine suggests that. Bardock says Frieza's men could find them using the scouters, probably because they can't hide their power levels. They probably could have gotten away with it or sneaking out one at a time since Frieza wasn't concerned about hunting the stragglers, but they had no way of knowing that.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Mewzard » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:22 pm

Shaddy wrote:Why only Bardock then? There's not much specific to him about this version of the story, so what exactly is the reason he and he alone realizes some bad shit is about to go down and sends his son away? Better question, why not run away with him? I suppose he and Gine could be punished if it's a false alarm and they aren't there when Freeza wants them to be, but Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz were off-planet and they seemed to be fine.
We don't know if it's only Bardock who has this idea. The story only focuses on that part however. It's entirely possible several Saiyans figured this out, but either failed on their escapes or died long ago for whatever reason.

As for why they don't leave with Goku, it's directly stated in the manga:

Gine: Hey, why can't we all escape somewhere together?

Bardock: We can't. They'll find us with the Scouters.

If Gohan and Krillin can lower their power levels to hide from scouters, I imagine your average Saiyan infant isn't going to set off Scouters from a distance. Especially with older Scouters.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:29 pm

Shaddy wrote:
ricky84 wrote: Sexism is the belief that one gender is inherently superior to the other.
Pointing out innate differences between males and females, and that some acts/behaviors are inherently "masculine" or "feminine" is not sexist because you aren't making any value judgements between the 2.
That's a distinction SJWs and other PC idoits fail to realize.
Except you're conflating the idea of statistically masculine behavior with the glorified idea of "being a man", something based in stereotype and which totally is judgmental and even discriminatory in some cases because of the implication that those who don't fall under it's poorly-defined blanket are then not secure or valid in their own gender. And again, calling the people you disagree with "PC idoits" really doesn't help your case in looking anything other than close-minded.
If a behavior is statistically "masculine " or "feminine", then it logically is valid to use it as an objective measure of manhood or womanhood. PC folks and SJWs are blank-slatists who dogmatically deny any innate differences within and between groups and individuals. That's what makes them idiots.

Again, you failed to point out how it in any way says one sex is better than the other smh.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:32 pm

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:
ricky84 wrote:He died like a man in the 90s special. That's the point of people's beef with DB Minus.
What's manly about how Borduck died in the 90s special exactly?
He knew he had no other options, so he decided to fight bravely to the end instend of passively dying.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by ricky84 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:35 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:Yeah, without the rebellion scene it changes literally nothing. Absolutely nothing changes.
Well, except for stripping the character of his most defining moment and altering the nature of the heritage of the main character.

Vegeta's father was the King of the Saiyans.
Goku's father was the man who lead the rebellion against their overlord despite being a nobody.

Without the rebellion scene, there is no scene of Freeza recognizing Goku as Bardock's son either. Not to mention it would blatantly contradict the original manga
This is the main issue with the change. DB Minus doesn't line up with Bardock's appearance in the original manga itself.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:48 pm

ricky84 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:Yeah, without the rebellion scene it changes literally nothing. Absolutely nothing changes.
Well, except for stripping the character of his most defining moment and altering the nature of the heritage of the main character.

Vegeta's father was the King of the Saiyans.
Goku's father was the man who lead the rebellion against their overlord despite being a nobody.

Without the rebellion scene, there is no scene of Freeza recognizing Goku as Bardock's son either. Not to mention it would blatantly contradict the original manga
This is the main issue with the change. DB Minus doesn't line up with Bardock's appearance in the original manga itself.
Well there's a slew of issues wtih it.

I'm moderately confident that they'll fix it in the actual movie.

But if they don't have that scene in this movie that will reach so many people, and showing that many people that may or may not be familiar with the original manga, something that blatantly contradicts the manga, it would be the single biggest failure in modern DB.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:56 pm

ricky84 wrote:If a behavior is statistically "masculine " or "feminine", then it logically is valid to use it as an objective measure of manhood or womanhood. PC folks and SJWs are blank-slatists who dogmatically deny any innate differences within and between groups and individuals. That's what makes them idiots.

Again, you failed to point out how it in any way says one sex is better than the other smh.
Could you link where this statistic data you're talking come from?
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by alakazam^ » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:58 pm

ricky84 wrote:Again, you failed to point out how it in any way says one sex is better than the other smh.
ricky84 wrote:He knew he had no other options, so he decided to fight bravely to the end instend of passively dying.
Complete this sentence: "to fight bravely to the end" is dying like a man and "passively dying" is dying like a...

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie Thread: "Broly"

Post by PFM18 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:59 pm

Guys this is getting really off topic now.

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