How Super makes OLD techniques NEW again

[Grimlock]

Ooh, that's badass. Don't count the technique out just yet, 17 is still in the ring. However, even if he does get knocked out - We still have the techniques in the games (which I consider awesome in its own regard). Besides, the games represent what I call the "Dragon Ball Expanded Universe" like Star Wars. Anything that appears in the games can appear in the anime one day and if the ToP version of 17 has it in Dragon Ball Heroes, there's always a chance he'll use it in the ToP arc or possibly even beyond it.

Yeah, after Final Kamehameha, I got a little faith they will make Android 17 to launch Super Electric Strike (and Vegeta's God Final Kamehameha), but I can't get my hopes any up.

[Kepiaschkz]

They used to before namek. After that,the focus was generic ki blasts except goku.

It's so sad. Android 17 got Super Electric Strike in Xenoverse and it appears as a technique for Dragon Ball Super's Android 17 in Dragon Ball Heroes. I was hoping to see it in the anime, but oh well...

Ooh, that's badass. Don't count the technique out just yet, 17 is still in the ring. However, even if he does get knocked out - We still have the techniques in the games (which I consider awesome in its own regard). Besides, the games represent what I call the "Dragon Ball Expanded Universe" like Star Wars. Anything that appears in the games can appear in the anime one day and if the ToP version of 17 has it in Dragon Ball Heroes, there's always a chance he'll use it in the ToP arc or possibly even beyond it.

Note that he charged it with both hands which is supposed to be the normal way to use this technique.

Uh, is the two-hand Makankosappo/Special Beam Cannon really a thing after reading about this, the Makosen?: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Makosen Should I not trust DB Wiki or what?

DB Wiki may be accurate most of the time but you shouldn't trust it 100% since it is fanmade and not official.

However, you might be right in this particular case.
I don't read japanese so I don't know if Piccolo is screaming the actual name of the technique while firing it.

If it's the case and it happens to be the Makosen then my bad.
If not, then I guess we have to assume it is a two handed makankosappo since it have this unique spiraled/helicoidal ray around the main energy wave.
Which makes since since the goal of this technique is to perforate your ennemy's body, and the energy wave is obviously shaped this way only to emulate a drill.

[BWri]

What's bizarre to me is how Piccolo's "special beam canon" (forgot the original Japanese name) is used so often in Super like it's his main move or something. In DBZ didn't he only ever use it ONCE against Radditz, and then never again for the entire series? He might have used it in a few filler scenes like destroying Goku's spaceship, but I don't ever remember it used against a major enemy.

It's almost like Toei's writers think this is all Piccolo ever did. Charge a beam against his forehead and then shoot it out.

Same with Kikoho unfortunately. I'm glad they busted out more of Piccolo's moves in 119 though, only part of that episode I liked.

[Michsi]

What's bizarre to me is how Piccolo's "special beam canon" (forgot the original Japanese name) is used so often in Super like it's his main move or something. In DBZ didn't he only ever use it ONCE against Radditz, and then never again for the entire series? He might have used it in a few filler scenes like destroying Goku's spaceship, but I don't ever remember it used against a major enemy.

It's almost like Toei's writers think this is all Piccolo ever did. Charge a beam against his forehead and then shoot it out.

Same with Kikoho unfortunately. I'm glad they busted out more of Piccolo's moves in 119 though, only part of that episode I liked.

Not to mention his stretchy arm technique. It only appeared once in the manga (against Krillin) and then only in the Cooler movies during the Z era, but Super sure has been loving them, and I'm almost 100% sure it's because of Luffy.

What I'm really hoping to see again one day is his giant form.

Speaking of old techniques, does anyone even remember the Dondon ray? Guess we have no chance of ever seeing it again now that Freeza's here

[BWri]

What's bizarre to me is how Piccolo's "special beam canon" (forgot the original Japanese name) is used so often in Super like it's his main move or something. In DBZ didn't he only ever use it ONCE against Radditz, and then never again for the entire series? He might have used it in a few filler scenes like destroying Goku's spaceship, but I don't ever remember it used against a major enemy.

It's almost like Toei's writers think this is all Piccolo ever did. Charge a beam against his forehead and then shoot it out.

Same with Kikoho unfortunately. I'm glad they busted out more of Piccolo's moves in 119 though, only part of that episode I liked.

Not to mention his stretchy arm technique. It only appeared once in the manga (against Krillin) and then only in the Cooler movies during the Z era, but Super sure has been loving them, and I'm almost 100% sure it's because of Luffy.

What I'm really hoping to see again one day is his giant form.

I wanted a Kaiju battle between Piccolo and Bergamo so freaking badly. Now I want one with Piccolo, Bergamo, and Ribrianne. I'd add Aniraza, but he'd stomp too hard. Maybe throw Gohan in there too if he somehow grew his tail back.

Speaking of old techniques, does anyone even remember the Dondon ray? Guess we have no chance of ever seeing it again now that Freeza's here

Of course I remember. It was an amazing technique in DB. Nearly killed Goku after all. And no, you will never see it because Tenshinhan only knows 1 offensive technique now.

[Michsi]

Same with Kikoho unfortunately. I'm glad they busted out more of Piccolo's moves in 119 though, only part of that episode I liked.

Not to mention his stretchy arm technique. It only appeared once in the manga (against Krillin) and then only in the Cooler movies during the Z era, but Super sure has been loving them, and I'm almost 100% sure it's because of Luffy.

What I'm really hoping to see again one day is his giant form.

I wanted a Kaiju battle between Piccolo and Bergamo so freaking badly. Now I want one with Piccolo, Bergamo, and Ribrianne. I'd add Aniraza, but he'd stomp too hard. Maybe throw Gohan in there too if he somehow grew his tail back.

Don't tell anyone, but the namekian giant form + Ouzaru team up is one of my biggest fan wishes, though I've been thinking more along the lines of Piccolo + Vegeta, because we know Vegeta can control the form and Gohan can't.

Of course I remember. It was an amazing technique in DB. Nearly killed Goku after all. And no, you will never see it because Tenshinhan only knows 1 offensive technique now.

I so want to re-watch the 22nd TB arc, but I think it will only make me bitter at this point.

[BWri]

Don't tell anyone, but the namekian giant form + Ouzaru team up is one of my biggest fan wishes, though I've been thinking more along the lines of Piccolo + Vegeta, because we know Vegeta can control the form and Gohan can't.

What an awesome scenario! Honestly, I'd take any Piccolo + Vegeta teamup. I'm still sad we never got one or a fight between the two when they were comparable.

I so want to re-watch the 22nd TB arc, but I think it will only make me bitter at this point.

Don't do that to yourself. I occasionally watch DB fights and get super depressed when thinking about where the characters are at now ... well Tien anyway.

[Michsi]

Don't tell anyone, but the namekian giant form + Ouzaru team up is one of my biggest fan wishes, though I've been thinking more along the lines of Piccolo + Vegeta, because we know Vegeta can control the form and Gohan can't.

What an awesome scenario! Honestly, I'd take any Piccolo + Vegeta teamup. I'm still sad we never got one or a fight between the two when they were comparable.

And they even hinted at it, goddamit, they had Vegeta taunt Piccolo specifically. @#%$@!^* tease!

Don't do that to yourself. I occasionally watch DB fights and get super depressed when thinking about where the characters are at now ... well Tien anyway.

I will at some point, though. 22nd TB arc -Saiyan saga is the best part of the entire franchise for me, which incidentally, also contains the most creative and interesting move sets.

[BWri]

Don't tell anyone, but the namekian giant form + Ouzaru team up is one of my biggest fan wishes, though I've been thinking more along the lines of Piccolo + Vegeta, because we know Vegeta can control the form and Gohan can't.

What an awesome scenario! Honestly, I'd take any Piccolo + Vegeta teamup. I'm still sad we never got one or a fight between the two when they were comparable.

And they even hinted at it, goddamit, they had Vegeta taunt Piccolo specifically. @#%$@!^* tease!

The tension between those two has always been intense. I'm glad that it's mostly still there in Super, but they never do anything with it, since Piccolo isn't close to Vegeta power wise and is only there to watch Gohan anyway.

I will at some point, though. 22nd TB arc -Saiyan saga is the best part of the entire franchise for me, which incidentally, also contains the most creative and interesting move sets.

I agree. The matchups in those tournaments were so good and the fights were brilliant. Goku vs. Krillin and Goku vs. Tien are still some of my favorite fights in the franchise. Even throwaway fights like Yamcha vs. Tien were memorable and had weight to them, establishing a bried rivalry between the two. Somehow the Cell saga still ends up being my favorite. I just like that it was the last saga to have everyone be reasonably relevant, at least in the anime. Would've been a little better if there were more enemy fighters involved to give the humans more to do. I do think the start of Namek inherited some of that creativity that you speak of as well, with strategy being at the forefront since the heroes were more or less outmatched, and the Ginyu Force had pretty unique fighting styles. If only that wrapped up a bit more creatively, instead of Goku just basically stomping them.

[majinwarman]

What an awesome scenario! Honestly, I'd take any Piccolo + Vegeta teamup. I'm still sad we never got one or a fight between the two when they were comparable.

And they even hinted at it, goddamit, they had Vegeta taunt Piccolo specifically. @#%$@!^* tease!

The tension between those two has always been intense. I'm glad that it's mostly still there in Super, but they never do anything with it, since Piccolo isn't close to Vegeta power wise and is only there to watch Gohan anyway.

I will at some point, though. 22nd TB arc -Saiyan saga is the best part of the entire franchise for me, which incidentally, also contains the most creative and interesting move sets.

I agree. The matchups in those tournaments were so good and the fights were brilliant. Goku vs. Krillin and Goku vs. Tien are still some of my favorite fights in the franchise. Even throwaway fights like Yamcha vs. Tien were memorable and had weight to them, establishing a bried rivalry between the two. Somehow the Cell saga still ends up being my favorite. I just like that it was the last saga to have everyone be reasonably relevant, at least in the anime. Would've been a little better if there were more enemy fighters involved to give the humans more to do. I do think the start of Namek inherited some of that creativity that you speak of as well, with strategy being at the forefront since the heroes were more or less outmatched, and the Ginyu Force had pretty unique fighting styles. If only that wrapped up a bit more creatively, instead of Goku just basically stomping them.

But, didn't the story back in the Namek arc call for Goku to beat the Ginyu Force. If he didn't beat them, they were going to die.

[BWri]

And they even hinted at it, goddamit, they had Vegeta taunt Piccolo specifically. @#%$@!^* tease!

The tension between those two has always been intense. I'm glad that it's mostly still there in Super, but they never do anything with it, since Piccolo isn't close to Vegeta power wise and is only there to watch Gohan anyway.

I will at some point, though. 22nd TB arc -Saiyan saga is the best part of the entire franchise for me, which incidentally, also contains the most creative and interesting move sets.

I agree. The matchups in those tournaments were so good and the fights were brilliant. Goku vs. Krillin and Goku vs. Tien are still some of my favorite fights in the franchise. Even throwaway fights like Yamcha vs. Tien were memorable and had weight to them, establishing a bried rivalry between the two. Somehow the Cell saga still ends up being my favorite. I just like that it was the last saga to have everyone be reasonably relevant, at least in the anime. Would've been a little better if there were more enemy fighters involved to give the humans more to do. I do think the start of Namek inherited some of that creativity that you speak of as well, with strategy being at the forefront since the heroes were more or less outmatched, and the Ginyu Force had pretty unique fighting styles. If only that wrapped up a bit more creatively, instead of Goku just basically stomping them.

But, didn't the story back in the Namek arc call for Goku to beat the Ginyu Force. If he didn't beat them, they were going to die.

I just wanted to see more from those characters. They had so much personality and cool techniques but they were quickly thrown away.

[majinwarman]

They used to before namek. After that,the focus was generic ki blasts except goku.

Oh yeah, off the top of my head in Z - Goku learned: Kaioken and Spirit Bomb for Saiyan Saga, Instant Transmission and Instant Kamehameha for Cell Saga, and for the Buu Saga he had the knowledge of the Fusion dance (don't know if this counts as he never used it). In fact, back in the day - Instant Kamehameha was similar to the Sliding Kamehameha (or Ultra Kamehameha) in how unique it was compared to previous Kamehamehas. We're just so used to Instant Kamehameha that we never think about how badass it probably was when it first debuted.

Yes,outside goku and new characters no one had anything new.Even in top there are either og db or variations of previous techniques.

I kinda miss the days when you can still fight against opponents that were stronger than you but you had better techniques. But, it can't happen and it's not Super's fault. This problem started with Z back in the Cell and Buu arc.

[majinwarman]

The tension between those two has always been intense. I'm glad that it's mostly still there in Super, but they never do anything with it, since Piccolo isn't close to Vegeta power wise and is only there to watch Gohan anyway.


I agree. The matchups in those tournaments were so good and the fights were brilliant. Goku vs. Krillin and Goku vs. Tien are still some of my favorite fights in the franchise. Even throwaway fights like Yamcha vs. Tien were memorable and had weight to them, establishing a bried rivalry between the two. Somehow the Cell saga still ends up being my favorite. I just like that it was the last saga to have everyone be reasonably relevant, at least in the anime. Would've been a little better if there were more enemy fighters involved to give the humans more to do. I do think the start of Namek inherited some of that creativity that you speak of as well, with strategy being at the forefront since the heroes were more or less outmatched, and the Ginyu Force had pretty unique fighting styles. If only that wrapped up a bit more creatively, instead of Goku just basically stomping them.

But, didn't the story back in the Namek arc call for Goku to beat the Ginyu Force. If he didn't beat them, they were going to die.

I just wanted to see more from those characters. They had so much personality and cool techniques but they were quickly thrown away.

Read this post of mine.

Oh yeah, off the top of my head in Z - Goku learned: Kaioken and Spirit Bomb for Saiyan Saga, Instant Transmission and Instant Kamehameha for Cell Saga, and for the Buu Saga he had the knowledge of the Fusion dance (don't know if this counts as he never used it). In fact, back in the day - Instant Kamehameha was similar to the Sliding Kamehameha (or Ultra Kamehameha) in how unique it was compared to previous Kamehamehas. We're just so used to Instant Kamehameha that we never think about how badass it probably was when it first debuted.

Yes,outside goku and new characters no one had anything new.Even in top there are either og db or variations of previous techniques.

I kinda miss the days when you can still fight against opponents that were stronger than you but you had better techniques. But, it can't happen and it's not Super's fault. This problem started with Z back in the Cell and Buu arc.

[Gokitalo]

You are so right!! This arc showed that new techniques or old can be used in cool ways. This part of Super though will just be overlooked due to Super's reputation as a bad show and can't have original ideas. But, maybe one day it'll be talked about more and discussed when people talk about this arc.

I'll be honest, I don't think Super really has such a bad reputation outside of certain parts of the Internet, which to be honest, often steers negative anyway. Most friends I know love the show, and that includes dedicated followers of the earlier Dragon Ball manga and animes. It's also the most-watched show on Toonami, and the only anime Daisuki streams nowadays. Aside from some complaints about the animation quality in the early episodes, the buzz from most folks I know has been pretty positive.

I'm also a big fan of how Super's brought back a lot of moves from the past series-- many of them we'd only end up ever seeing once! The new ways they've been used has also been fantastic: I really like how clever a lot of the fights have been this season. Even Goku's recruitment battles were really fun to watch.

[BWri]

Yes,outside goku and new characters no one had anything new.Even in top there are either og db or variations of previous techniques.

I kinda miss the days when you can still fight against opponents that were stronger than you but you had better techniques. But, it can't happen and it's not Super's fault. This problem started with Z back in the Cell and Buu arc.

I think Super is trying to flirt with this idea. Hit is a character based around the concept of skill and technique trumping raw power and there's a few cool fighters who introduce useful skills too, like Botamo (or maybe that's simply a trait.) But for the most part, the cool skills have been one dimensional or only used briefly. Super does piggyback off of DB and DBZ for the majority of techniques. Compared to other shonens, the Z warriors are stagnant when it comes to improving their techniques. I think Tien should've fixed the flaw in his multiform technique long ago and found more strategic uses for it and Gohan should know more demon style moves and something else from Goku other than the Kamehameha.

I do like how Krillin improved the Taiyoken and how Piccolo can amp Makankosappo to insane levels. Looks like Piccolo's multiform is improved as well. Much better than Tien's anyway in his fights with Gohan and Frost. 17 has improved his techniques the most with his variety of uses for his Barrier. I also have to compliment Krillin and 18 with their Ping Pong Combo Ki Blast (not official).

I guess my biggest problems are Tien and Vegeta. Vegeta has always been boring to me in Super for this very reason. He never had a very diverse movepool to begin with, but outside of the manga, Super hasn't added anything new to his repertoire but a single transformation. And from looking at Roshi's amazing results, I feel Tien should've been one of the most broken fighters there. Tien's always been the technique innovator and Super is telling me that in over 20+ years he hasn't created any variations in his techniques. I really wanted this to be a breakout arc for Tien, but alas, he only knows two moves now. But for people who are always training and thinking of combat, the Z team is remarkably stagnant.

"

I'll be honest, I don't think Super really has such a bad reputation outside of certain parts of the Internet, which to be honest, often steers negative anyway. Most friends I know love the show, and that includes dedicated followers of the earlier Dragon Ball manga and animes. It's also the most-watched show on Toonami, and the only anime Daisuki streams nowadays. Aside from some complaints about the animation quality in the early episodes, the buzz from most folks I know has been pretty positive.

"
Most anime fans I talk to have a disdain for it or lack interest in it. It's brought its reputation up with the last few arcs, but overall it's not taken seriously like DBZ was. Even people I know who don't watch the show are aware of it's glaring faults. The "casuls" I know don't watch it all the time, only waiting for big moments like Goku vs. Jiren, or other moments that are massively shared as clips on social media. They'll watch and buy into the glorious hype (Super's best attribute) but they typically don't pay attention to the details of what they're watching so inconsistencies don't hit them as hard. These are just some people I know. One anime fan I know had no interest in it until I explained how Goku might be a multiverse destroying villain (before they copped out on that idea). She started watching, but was disappointed they didn't follow up on that interesting premise. She still watches week to week now asking me questions about all the glaring inconsistencies. I just shrug most of the time. Like most of us, she enjoys the big moments of the arc, but the rest often leaves her scratching her head and asking me a million questions that the writers didn't bother to explain. Like me, she loves the characters most of all, and watches mainly for shenanigans featuring them.

[Whatever]

The Mafuba was a wasted concept in OG DB and was not used at all in DBZ,so i am glad Super made good use of it.
It looks badass,it has a cool name and has the opponent screaming like a bitch when used.

But Super also nerfed how the Hellzone grenade works just for the sake of reused footage,the blast were not standing still but were moving around the opponent,thats what made it unavoidable.

Vegeta has used all of his named attacks so far,so does Goku and Piccolo has used most of his important moves,the sole expection being the Light Grenade.

Tien has been kind of the Tri beam guy after his match with Goku and thats all he did in Z so its no surprise it carried in Super.

[Gokitalo]

Most anime fans I talk to have a disdain for it or lack interest in it. It's brought its reputation up with the last few arcs, but overall it's not taken seriously like DBZ was. Even people I know who don't watch the show are aware of it's glaring faults. The "casuls" I know don't watch it all the time, only waiting for big moments like Goku vs. Jiren, or other moments that are massively shared as clips on social media. They'll watch and buy into the glorious hype (Super's best attribute) but they typically don't pay attention to the details of what they're watching so inconsistencies don't hit them as hard. These are just some people I know. One anime fan I know had no interest in it until I explained how Goku might be a multiverse destroying villain (before they copped out on that idea). She started watching, but was disappointed they didn't follow up on that interesting premise. She still watches week to week now asking me questions about all the glaring inconsistencies. I just shrug most of the time. Like most of us, she enjoys the big moments of the arc, but the rest often leaves her scratching her head and asking me a million questions that the writers didn't bother to explain. Like me, she loves the characters most of all, and watches mainly for shenanigans featuring them.

I guess the anime fans you and i talk to just view the show differently. Makes sense, I suppose-- any sequel to one of the most popular manga/anime series around is bound to generate a lot of opinions, including quite strong ones.

[majinwarman]

You are so right!! This arc showed that new techniques or old can be used in cool ways. This part of Super though will just be overlooked due to Super's reputation as a bad show and can't have original ideas. But, maybe one day it'll be talked about more and discussed when people talk about this arc.

I'll be honest, I don't think Super really has such a bad reputation outside of certain parts of the Internet, which to be honest, often steers negative anyway. Most friends I know love the show, and that includes dedicated followers of the earlier Dragon Ball manga and animes. It's also the most-watched show on Toonami, and the only anime Daisuki streams nowadays. Aside from some complaints about the animation quality in the early episodes, the buzz from most folks I know has been pretty positive.

I'm also a big fan of how Super's brought back a lot of moves from the past series-- many of them we'd only end up ever seeing once! The new ways they've been used has also been fantastic: I really like how clever a lot of the fights have been this season. Even Goku's recruitment battles were really fun to watch.

I read lots of tweets and YouTube comments that will question about the hate that Super gets. I also love seeing some of my personal favorite moves come back. Though, I would like to see some new moves in the future.

[BWri]

Most anime fans I talk to have a disdain for it or lack interest in it. It's brought its reputation up with the last few arcs, but overall it's not taken seriously like DBZ was. Even people I know who don't watch the show are aware of it's glaring faults. The "casuls" I know don't watch it all the time, only waiting for big moments like Goku vs. Jiren, or other moments that are massively shared as clips on social media. They'll watch and buy into the glorious hype (Super's best attribute) but they typically don't pay attention to the details of what they're watching so inconsistencies don't hit them as hard. These are just some people I know. One anime fan I know had no interest in it until I explained how Goku might be a multiverse destroying villain (before they copped out on that idea). She started watching, but was disappointed they didn't follow up on that interesting premise. She still watches week to week now asking me questions about all the glaring inconsistencies. I just shrug most of the time. Like most of us, she enjoys the big moments of the arc, but the rest often leaves her scratching her head and asking me a million questions that the writers didn't bother to explain. Like me, she loves the characters most of all, and watches mainly for shenanigans featuring them.

I guess the anime fans you and i talk to just view the show differently. Makes sense, I suppose-- any sequel to one of the most popular manga/anime series around is bound to generate a lot of opinions, including quite strong ones.

That's mainly why I like these forums so much. There's just such a diversity of opinion and people like DB for all types of reasons, a lot of which I'd have never considered before coming here. I find the DB fandom to be one of the most interesting, especially now that Super is popular. Admittedly, I'm not involved in many fandoms, though.

[majinwarman]

Most anime fans I talk to have a disdain for it or lack interest in it. It's brought its reputation up with the last few arcs, but overall it's not taken seriously like DBZ was. Even people I know who don't watch the show are aware of it's glaring faults. The "casuls" I know don't watch it all the time, only waiting for big moments like Goku vs. Jiren, or other moments that are massively shared as clips on social media. They'll watch and buy into the glorious hype (Super's best attribute) but they typically don't pay attention to the details of what they're watching so inconsistencies don't hit them as hard. These are just some people I know. One anime fan I know had no interest in it until I explained how Goku might be a multiverse destroying villain (before they copped out on that idea). She started watching, but was disappointed they didn't follow up on that interesting premise. She still watches week to week now asking me questions about all the glaring inconsistencies. I just shrug most of the time. Like most of us, she enjoys the big moments of the arc, but the rest often leaves her scratching her head and asking me a million questions that the writers didn't bother to explain. Like me, she loves the characters most of all, and watches mainly for shenanigans featuring them.

I guess the anime fans you and i talk to just view the show differently. Makes sense, I suppose-- any sequel to one of the most popular manga/anime series around is bound to generate a lot of opinions, including quite strong ones.

That's mainly why I like these forums so much. There's just such a diversity of opinion and people like DB for all types of reasons, a lot of which I'd have never considered before coming here. I find the DB fandom to be one of the most interesting, especially now that Super is popular. Admittedly, I'm not involved in many fandoms, though.

I'm in lots of fandoms so I have some experience with them. Some have no problem with Super while some will try to hate on it from time to time. I think Super is a really difficult series to judge without being called a "hater or fanboy".