Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

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Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by ToshioWrites » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:36 pm

He is the main antagonist of this arc and he received zero pre-tournament screentime to flesh him out. In tournament whenever he speaks, its a memorable line for me atleast.

"kiero"
"owaridayo" - first time
"an assassins pride , what rubbish!"
"how does the last victory you will ever achieve feel?"

However his speaking parts are every few episodes and the rest of the time he just grunts with his arms folded.

Honestly I think he could have been a memorable character had they gone forward strongly in one direction. Either make him the most cocky SOB who always shit talks and looks down on opponents far more than he has or making him Superman like he is the manga with his morals and motivations all fleshed out. Instead we get this bland gray alien who is only gonna be remember for his power.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:40 pm

No, I think they're doing just fine. Right now he seems like an absolutely insurmountable mystery which is good, they will later characterize him in a manner fairly similar to the manga.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:57 pm

I've liked what they've done thus far. My only real gripe was his whole meditation shtick for three episodes. That bothered me.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by perucho1990 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:59 pm

Yes, he is killing the ratings and the merchandise aspects seems to be lacking too.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Bullza » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:05 am

Not really, I like that he's a completely different kind of an antagonist.

He comes across as an unstoppable force more than anything. That's where he's completely different because with someone like Goku Black even though he was hugely powerful, you knew he would lose eventually. Same with all the others.

Jiren though... people don't really seem all that sure if Goku is going to win against him even though this universe still exists in EoZ people still think Jiren could win because it's hard to actually imagine being beaten.

We haven't had someone like that before and that's where him not saying too much has been beneficial.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Whatever » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:25 am

As a character yes,as a wall he is propably the best wall after Namek Freeza.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by lancerman » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:46 am

No. The real fight with him hasn't even started. He's had to share this arc with like 70 other new characters and he clearly stands out as the big bad here. They have the next few episodes to flesh him out beyond being a brick wall, which is his main purpose right now. Goku already achieved his new power up for the arc and it's supposed perfect body movement that you can't really envision Goku surpassing.... and Jiren still overcame it.

He's fine.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Jigurashi » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:54 am

At the moment? Far too early to tell. But considering we're going to be having 5+ episodes with U7 facing U11, we haven't even reached the big fight with Jiren yet either. Regardless of how anyone feels about Jiren as a character, I think it's premature to say they've botched something when the saga isn't even over yet. It's like the other thread of asking for the consensus on Jiren when the saga hadn't even finished yet.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Kataphrut » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:46 am

Weirdly enough, at first I wanted him to be like he is in the manga, just pure justice boy. Trouble is, by the time that version debuted, I was more won over by the silent, intimidating bastard they've made him in the anime. It actually feels refreshing and unique compared to the over-the-top evil megalomaniac villains of previous arcs.

I like that unlike similar tournament villain archetypes like Tien, Pikkon or Hit, he hasn't gained any respect for Goku through fighting him. Most of those characters had a jaded attitude at first, but fighting this simple monkey man taught them to love again, or whatever. Jiren is just like "no, he's still a scrub". The best way to reconcile the manga/anime versions of him is to assume that, like anime Toppo, he's brought into the idea that Goku is a monster and holds him in nothing but contempt.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:15 am

I think the big issue with Jiren is the amount of time it has taken to get to him which is a fault of the pacing and the format rather than the character. He hasn't done much yet so I ferl that it's premature to judge him as a character but I do find it very interesting that he's a good guy rather than a villain, though I won't be surprised if Toei throws in some last minute mustache twirling to make him seem less sympathetic than Goku. As it is I'm rooting for him (and Toppo) over Goku.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Hawk9211 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:48 am

I would be very mad if they tried to make him like his manga counterpart,it would be 180 degree turn from what little they have showed of him.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:25 am

It's so weird. Jiren's personality is quite paper thin in the anime, but at the same time, he's shown to be more of a character who speaks through actions than words, and that ironically makes him all the more unique. He's the sort of antagonist we really haven't had in Dragon Ball so far

He is what Bill Goldberg was to WCW and what Brock Lesnar was to WWE. Just a freak of nature with a abnormal amount of strength. He is a literal hype machine. And I love that. I also love how Jiren is so confident in himself that after fighting Hit and Ultra Instinct Goku, he feels there is no one who can challenge him and just take a breather. That dude is so alpha male it's crazy.

I don't what it about this guy but he just carries a certain mystique about him that you can't put your finger on. He may seem boring, but whenever he's in action, he puts in such a intimidating display that you ultimately still want to see more of him. Jiren is such an intriguing enigma.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by buutenks » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:33 am

Jiren isn't evil. He is fighting for his universe to survive. And Jiren is fine as a character. We got plenty of ego centric villains in DB. Plus Jiren isn't really a villain.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Jigurashi » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:59 am

Lord Beerus wrote:It's so weird. Jiren's personality is quite paper thin in the anime, but at the same time, he's shown to be more of a character who speaks through actions than words, and that ironically makes him all the more unique. He's the sort of antagonist we really haven't had in Dragon Ball so far

He is what Bill Goldberg was to WCW and what Brock Lesnar was to WWE. Just a freak of nature with a abnormal amount of strength. He is a literal hype machine. He's And I love that. I also love how Jiren is so confident in himself that after fighting Hit and Ultra Instinct Goku, he feels there is no one who can challenge him and just take a breather. That dude is so alpha male it's crazy.

I don't what it about this guy but he just carries a certain mystique about him that you can't put your finger on. He may seem boring, but whenever he's in action, he puts in such a intimidating display that you ultimately still want to see more of him. Jiren is such an intriguing enigma.
Huh. This is an interesting view on Jiren. Thinking about it, it's probably why I like him more than I thought I would have. The guy's shallow personality oddly enough makes him a unique character in DB as he's fairly modest for a DB antagonist and him speaking more through his actions does add to that sort of enigma that is Jiren. I'm perfectly fine with the two differing versions of the character. I like both different takes on him.
Kataphrut wrote:Weirdly enough, at first I wanted him to be like he is in the manga, just pure justice boy. Trouble is, by the time that version debuted, I was more won over by the silent, intimidating bastard they've made him in the anime. It actually feels refreshing and unique compared to the over-the-top evil megalomaniac villains of previous arcs.

I like that unlike similar tournament villain archetypes like Tien, Pikkon or Hit, he hasn't gained any respect for Goku through fighting him. Most of those characters had a jaded attitude at first, but fighting this simple monkey man taught them to love again, or whatever. Jiren is just like "no, he's still a scrub". The best way to reconcile the manga/anime versions of him is to assume that, like anime Toppo, he's brought into the idea that Goku is a monster and holds him in nothing but contempt.
That's something I like too. He still has little respect for Goku. Usually by now, anybody who fought Goku would have even some respect for him but Jiren just seems to give no fucks about him.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by snpaa » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:19 am

It depends on your subjective standards for dragonball, for me yes the character is the prototypical strong silent type that poses no personality other then being strong, once another character is inevitably introduced on par with him his lack of personality will prevent him from being an iconic character in dragonball . But for the average dragonball super fan it really doesn't matter he could be interchangeable with an inanimate object that has the words "REALLY REALLY REALLY STRONG" embedded on it and it would create the same illusion of a "good" antagonist for them .

So it's yes and no.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by YonedgeHP » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:26 am

perucho1990 wrote:Yes, he is killing the ratings and the merchandise aspects seems to be lacking too.

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He is NOT killing the ratings nor the merchandise, stop trolling.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:26 am

That's where he's completely different because with someone like Goku Black even though he was hugely powerful, you knew he would lose eventually.
Not really. I remember many fans were unsure whether Goku and co. would've been able to defeat Black, especially after he went Super Saiyan Rosè and stomped both Goku and Vegeta. On top of that, it was revealed he had an immortal partner in Future Zamasu.

It seems Toei is writing Jiren differently from the manga, since in the manga Jiren is quite humble, whereas in the anime Jiren seems to be very cocky and arrogant, even taunting Goku by saying that the victory against Aniraza will be the last victory in his life.

I would like to know where Jiren's immense power comes from and what his true motives are. Right now, Jiren is a force of nature; an obstacle that the protagonist somehow must be able to defeat. He is not a developed character with his own unique personality, agenda, and flaws.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by ToshioWrites » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:37 am

YonedgeHP wrote:
perucho1990 wrote:Yes, he is killing the ratings and the merchandise aspects seems to be lacking too.

Worst Antagonist of 2017 along with Acnologia, Big Mom and Overhaul
He is NOT killing the ratings nor the merchandise, stop trolling.
Bandai is gonna make more money from Dragon Ball than any other property but Jiren is killing the merchandise :roll:

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by sintzu » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:01 pm

He isn't the worst thing to come out of modern DB but they could've done a lot more with him, starting with giving him an actual personality.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:30 pm

Toei's botched a number of things. But I think it's a bit early to tell, since the arc isn't yet over.

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