Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

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The gr
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by The gr » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:45 pm

I say he is much better right now,I like how he values Justice and Pride over everything,he should have been potrayed like this in the beginning.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Lord Frieza » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:47 pm

Sykin wrote:8)
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Oh My Kami! He's so cute! :D

Never doubted he'd get a backstory before the end.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:50 pm

Not anymore. He got a pretty good backstory. It's kinda standard, but it works well with his character, and it certainly has more substance to it than most backstories given to other antagonists in Dragon Ball.

Jiren is basically Batman. And funny enough, I referred to Jiren as Batman in the past.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Lord Frieza » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:51 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Not anymore. He got a pretty good backstory. It's kinda standard, but it works well with his character, and it certainly has more substance to it than most backstories given to other antagonists in Dragon Ball.

Jiren is basically Batman. And funny enough, I referred to Jiren as Batman in the past.
More like he's the love child of Superman, Batman and a Grey Alien.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:55 pm

He is still a dull and has no personality, but to a lesser extent now. He has valid reasons to be this boring character so... He gets my seal of approval (however, it is not enough for him to be included in Xenoverse 2, I would still prefer Baby Vegeta or someone else instead of him).

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Draconic » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:17 pm

I really hope Jiren's backstory is Toei's doing, cause it's fucking terrible and with how I already dislike Toyotaro's "Supermanish" take on the character, adding this shit on top of it will make it unbearable. It's generically anime, it's generically superheroish... It's just incredibly dull for a guy of his stature.

What held me from drawing conclusions about him was his wish, but with such a horrendous background, there's basically no way it would turn up worthwhile.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:53 pm

It's a very simple backstory, generic but at the same time, it does a good job of explaining Jiren's philosophy and why he is as strong as he is. I also like that it introduces a character flaw, namely that he can't let go of the past or form meaningful bonds with people because he only values strength.

Presentation could have been better, it would have especially been nice to learn more about the villain or what happened to him (sequel hook?)

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:56 pm

Man, that backstory was really disappointing to me. Belmod of all people deciding to tell everyone was so strange, and that lazy "an evil-doer" villain was so corny. It seemed seriously rushed to me. How cool would it have been just devoting the first half of the episode to the flashback, without it being exposition from another character, and we're just put in Jiren's shoes for the first 10 minutes before cutting back to the ToP.

Maybe he just worked better for me as someone mysterious. I don't know. I feel if that's all we're gonna get on Jiren's backstory, I'd rather have had nothing or very vague hints to keep an air of mystique about him.

I think the manga will for sure improve on this area though. Case in point: Trunks vs Babidi and Dabura in the manga as compared to the anime.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:00 pm

I feel like Jiren's belittling nature about strength and cursing people for being weak should have been brought up earlier to actually set up a mystery for why he is so obsessed with strength? Then they could have established a que for the audience and the characters to become invested in Jiren's obsession with strength. Then they could have told us Jiren's backstory. That way we wouldn't have had to suffer through so much of Jiren being so plain.

His backstory isn't particularly interesting and is in fact rather generic, but it is at the very least something.
Last edited by JazzMazz on Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by 8bitdee » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:02 pm

Hard to botch something that has no substance to begin with. If Toriyama had come up with a somewhat interesting enemy (which he still can as proven by Zamasu and Hit), Toei would've had something to work with.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:03 pm

I get the feeling that by Episode #130 Gokuu will finally make Jiren enjoy a fight.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by The gr » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:04 pm

JazzMazz wrote:I feel like Jiren's belittling nature about strength and cursing people for being weak should have been brought up earlier to actually set up a mystery for why he is so obsessed with strength? Then they could have established a que for the audience and the characters to become invested in Jiren's obsession with strength. Then they could have told us Jiren's backstory. That way we wouldn't have had to suffer through so much of Jiren being so plain.
Exactly,it baffles me that they didn't have Jiren like this in the beginning,i would have loved to see that in the special.
Last edited by The gr on Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:08 pm

The gr wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:I feel like Jiren's belittling nature about strength and cursing people for being weak should have been brought up earlier to actually set up a mystery for why he is so obsessed with strength? Then they could have established a que for the audience and the characters to become invested in Jiren's obsession with strength. Then they could have told us Jiren's backstory. That way we wouldn't have had to suffer through so much of Jiren being so plain.
Exactly,it baffles me that they didn't Jiren like this in the beginning,i would have loved to see that in the special.
Don't get me wrong, he would still be a fairly generic character, but at the very least he would be somewhat watchable.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:12 pm

The moment Jiren actually has more depth than most antagonist/villains of this franchise. Unbelievable.
I'm shocked. :lol:
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by precita » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:14 pm

Jiren is probably the best developed character of the entire franchise now. That 2 minute backstory he had gave him so much emotional and thought provoking depth that he has now shot up to the Top 5 deepest Dragonball characters. The lore, the lore!

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by The gr » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:17 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:The moment Jiren actually has more depth than most antagonist/villains of this franchise. Unbelievable.
I'm shocked. :lol:
Not more than Zamasu :thumbup:.. Is all right I suppose, just a little generic.
JazzMazz wrote:Don't get me wrong, he would still be a fairly generic character, but at the very least he would be somewhat watchable.
would take everything at this point and none of this would have happened if the staff were on the same page with the Story.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Jiren had pretty much the exact back story I expected him to have. Can't say I'm disappointed!

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:19 pm

I really like how this explains why he's so emotionless. He only believes in strength, anything else is meaningless to him. That's why he's so stoic.

I like the way his backstory was told. This isn't anything we haven't seen before, but it does a good enough job at explaining why he's called Jiren the Grey.

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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by majinwarman » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Not anymore. He got a pretty good backstory. It's kinda standard, but it works well with his character, and it certainly has more substance to it than most backstories given to other antagonists in Dragon Ball.

Jiren is basically Batman. And funny enough, I referred to Jiren as Batman in the past.
I personally like his backstory and the reasons why he doesn't trust people and only values strength.
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Re: Do you think Toei botched Jiren?

Post by Jigurashi » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:41 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:I really like how this explains why he's so emotionless. He only believes in strength, anything else is meaningless to him. That's why he's so stoic.

I like the way his backstory was told. This isn't anything we haven't seen before, but it does a good enough job at explaining why he's called Jiren the Grey.
Pretty much my opinion of it. It's a generic backstory but gets the job done of pretty much explaining why he is quite stoic and cold towards everyone. It wasn't anything amazing, but it did give us more insight to his values and perfectly explains why he's become more emotionally numb. His backstory is more like Batman's than anything else. He ain't deep by any means, but he now has some depth to him

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