Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

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TBMx
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Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by TBMx » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:27 pm

https://twitter.com/errenvanduine/statu ... 7466787845

- Much of that screentime spent fighting characters that cannot challenge him at all.
- Much of the screentime of other characters are them talking ABOUT him.
- Because of this photo http://media.comicbook.com/2017/10/maxr ... 032325.jpg He had immunity from elimination for the whole tournament and we all knew it.
- He has the most eliminations, he can now battle jiren with his eyes closed while smiling, based on 122 preview.
- Fighting causes him to heal his stamina, even though that never happened before.
- He can fight SS2 Caulifla in base and have the advantage.
- He stole Vegeta's SSB/SSG switch from the manga.
- He's back to full power after ep 122.

Irritating Stu is annoying.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Kataphrut » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:56 pm

Raw screentime isn't the best judge of quality though. It's still treated the other characters better than GT. Hell, even Z in some respects. Goku may be the main focus and POV of the tournament, but at least other characters aren't constantly useless and waiting for him to save them.
Last edited by Kataphrut on Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by precita » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:44 pm

Image

This about sums it up.

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RedHeat
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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by RedHeat » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:54 pm

I also learned nothing from GT.
Feels over Reals.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:44 pm

TBMx wrote:https://twitter.com/errenvanduine/statu ... 7466787845

- Much of that screentime spent fighting characters that cannot challenge him at all.
- Much of the screentime of other characters are them talking ABOUT him.
- Because of this photo http://media.comicbook.com/2017/10/maxr ... 032325.jpg He had immunity from elimination for the whole tournament and we all knew it.
- He has the most eliminations, he can now battle jiren with his eyes closed while smiling, based on 122 preview.
- Fighting causes him to heal his stamina, even though that never happened before.
- He can fight SS2 Caulifla in base and have the advantage.
- He stole Vegeta's SSB/SSG switch from the manga.
- He's back to full power after ep 122.

Irritating Stu is annoying.
- We're really complaining about the main character having the most screentime and the most contributions to the plot? Really? Seriously? Ok. I mean, I get it if you're complaining about other characters not having a lot of screentime, but the main character? Again, seriously? Ok.
- What I said above.
- Yes, DBZ thrives from new transformations every once in a while, if it's not overtly a transformation-driven series.
- The first thing I said. And... ok...?
- Healing stamina while fighting is new and kinda BS, yes.
- Yes, yes he can. Using his skills. One of the rare cases in Super where raw power isn't everything.
- In the manga, it was Goku who first utilized using SSG before SSB to preserve stamina against Hit.
- Yes, again, the healing stamina thing is kinda BS.

Make no mistake, I'm not denying "Goku Time" in this show. But Super's more of The Goku and Vegeta Show really. Way more so than GT, which literally was Goku Time. And most series have the main character taking most of the "screentime", so it seems like you're complaining for the sake of complaining apropos of this, no offense. This is a kids show, they need Goku in every episode. However, you are correct about Toei not learning much since GT.
Kataphrut wrote:Raw screentime isn't the best judge of quality though. It's still treated the other characters better than GT. Hell, even Z in some respects. Goku may be the main focus and POV of the tournament, but at least other characters aren't constantly useless and waiting for him to save them.
Also, this in its entirety.
RedHeat wrote:I also learned nothing from GT.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by sintzu » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:13 pm

In GT the other characters got nothing to do while in Super Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, Piccolo, 17, 18 AND Roshi have gotten good screen time so it's not as bad as GT.
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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:13 am

There are other interesting things to note about the graph though. Gohan being second highest is interesting, since it felt like he was underutilised for a lot of the first half. Also, he and Piccolo were pretty much joined at the hip until Piccolo got eliminated, so he's shot up a bit just in the last couple episodes alone.

It really goes to show how much a focus episode is worth. That's why Caulifla and Kale are so high, they had four focus episodes, plus two that were about Kefla. While Goku has been in every episode, outside of the special, I would argue very few of them have been "about" him. In the Reddit post, the person who made the graph pointed out that Roshi had the second-highest amount of screentime in U7 from his elimination in 107 to Gohan passing him in 115 and Vegeta in 117. So it took eight episodes for Gohan to surpass Roshi in total screentime and ten episodes for Vegeta. Not to mention Vegeta was with Roshi in his second focus ep.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by AnAverageJoe1998 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:45 am

I argue that GT problem wasn't that Goku wasn't that Goku character got the most focus, it was that almost everyone else couldn't do anything noteworthy, and only Goku was capable of solving the issue at hand. This is also a issue I have with Z to an extent because him not being active in the plot (Namek arc comes to mind) was the only reason it didn't end yet.

Goku being the main character and all, is going to have the most screen-time in Super. The difference is that the characters act independently from Goku and are capable at defeating foes themselves without having to stand around and wait for him unless it's made clear that they are not able to do so. I felt that both the Universal Survival arc and the Future Trunks Arc in particular have done a pretty good job at utilizing the characters to avoid the pitfall GT made.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by SirTorra » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:47 am

As bad as some might think goku is in GT, he's 10x worse in Super. Super completely butchered what little character goku had left. From acting like a complete dumbass to taking up to much screentime, the writers handling Goku should take a a step away from writing if this is the best thay can make goku be. What makes it sad is that Goku has had HUGE amounts of screen time yet no character development. You would expect the opposite to happen right? Nope these writers don't have a clue what they're doing when it comes to handling goku.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by BWri » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:48 am

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote: - We're really complaining about the main character having the most screentime and the most contributions to the plot? Really? Seriously? Ok. I mean, I get it if you're complaining about other characters not having a lot of screentime, but the main character? Again, seriously? Ok.
The problem is the volume of it in comparison to the other characters, including the main antagonist of the arc. It first glance it appears Goku's screentime surpasses all the others combined. I wouldn't doubt that that was true since we go several eps without seeing some characters.
Make no mistake, I'm not denying "Goku Time" in this show. But Super's more of The Goku and Vegeta Show really. Way more so than GT, which literally was Goku Time.

It's almost the same really, when you consider that Vegeta got considerable screentime in GT as co-villain. I mean GT and Super Vegeta have the same roles really. Neither are really Goku's real rival and both have inherited Vegeta's "Worf" role from Z but on steroids. They're more alike than you might think. Super establishes Vegeta as Goku's equal early on, but they undermine that concept all the time and Vegeta never gets anything unique from Goku. But I guess that is still a little better than GT where he had to cheat to get a comparable form at the very end of the show.
And most series have the main character taking most of the "screentime", so it seems like you're complaining for the sake of complaining apropos of this, no offense. This is a kids show, they need Goku in every episode. However, you are correct about Toei not learning much since GT.
And I'm not being snarky or anything, but this does sound like an apologist's statement. If this data is accurate, there is a clear imbalance of screen time. If Goku was a more interesting and engaging character, perhaps this wouldn't be a problem, but honestly, for most of the tournament he's just messing around. That time could easily be spent on ANYONE else. Goku is at his most engaging when he is fighting someone who can truly test his limits and that's only come in the latter half of the tournament. He's shoehorned into episodes like 106 where his big contribution was throwing rocks, because, Goku quota. Kids don't need Goku every episode as long as there are interesting side characters doing interesting things. Look at every other shonen and shows like Digimon, Beyblade, Yugioh, etc. Dragon Ball & Z was also like this once, hmm...

The show simply reeks of a corporate touch at times.
sintzu wrote:In GT the other characters got nothing to do while in Super Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, Piccolo, 17, 18 AND Roshi have gotten good screen time so it's not as bad as GT.
That's why it's not exactly as bad, but in some ways it is due to how blatant it is that they have a Goku quota. Overall though, I'm glad the side characters get to do something.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Kaiosama » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:28 am

I think the numbers are a little skewed being taken from one arc. Super has given way more shine on other characters compared to GT. Would Super benefit more from Goku having more of an Ichigo or Naruto role in their respective shows? Sure! In a way... I think he already has with the presence of the GoDs and Angels, where as before... Goku has always been able to surpass all of his previous mentors and not have anyone else on the 'Light Side' able to compete with him.

When looking at GT... there's nobody even CLOSE to his level on the Z squad (except perhaps Majuub) until the end of the series when they buffed Vegeta to SSJ4 so they could fuse again. Vegeta and Goku have been within the same tier of power throughout the entirety of Super with the exception of this arc because of UI. They've also buffed other characters such as Frieza, 17, and Gohan to God Tier (maybe even Buu as well after he trained). This simply did not exist in GT. It was LITERALLY Goku Time! And I say this as a huge Goku fanboy and Vegeta hater. Yes Goku has gotten a lot of shine this arc, but that's because A) He's the main character and B) This arc is Goku's big moment. The last arc was for Future Trunks (in the anime). This one is for Goku. So it's okay for him to get all of this screen time because this arc is all about him breaking his limits and ascending to a new level of power to rival the GoD for the sake of Universe 7's survival.

In my opinion, the previous arc's shit on Goku and SSB like no other. He has never won in this series. People like to complain about Vegeta always getting bodied, but Goku hasn't really done much better, other than always being shown to be the superior saiyan (and he will always be because this is his story after all).

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Guesswhoo » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:44 am

I seriously don't get the complaint, this arc has given many secondary character more focus than in any other arc in the entire franchise and even most anime out there. Each character in U7, minus Tien and Krillin, had a shining moment of awesome for them where Goku only appeared as a secondary character.
Seriously, this fanbase is one the most splitted anime fanbase out there. Nothing can be be done without upsetting many other.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by snpaa » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:59 am

Kataphrut wrote:Raw screentime isn't the best judge of quality though. It's still treated the other characters better than GT. Hell, even Z in some respects. Goku may be the main focus and POV of the tournament, but at least other characters aren't constantly useless and waiting for him to save them.
I'd disagree, gt had a better understanding of the characters while super seems more like a imitation of the characters, some characters get actively regressed(vegeta), while others retconed (buu), Sure super gives them more screen time but even with their added screen time goku still steal 90% of the screen time with his antics.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Jigurashi » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:56 am

Super seems about the level of OG DB tbh. It really isn't close to being as bad as GT was, but it definitely feels like a saga in OG DB this saga. But this goes with the entire issue in that the entire series isn't just about Goku, it revolves around him.

For a few sagas in OG it'd be almost entirely Goku-centric. Weren't fans even complaining about how Goku centric it was during the RRA saga but AT continued with keeping it as 90% Goku anyway? Baba's Tournament has Kuririn and Yamcha taken out early so that's Goku can do the bulk of the fighting and clear the tournament. Daimao saga kicks off with Kuririn's death and is almost entirely Goku-centric once again.

DBZ changed that by giving more equal screen time but introduced a different side of the "series revolves around Goku" problem. Whenever Goku wasn't around, the others could hardly ever accomplish fuck all. Most of the time they never did a damn thing of significance without Goku being around. Namek was really the exception and even then, it eventually became the "stall for Goku" game too.

GT takes it all to extreme. Whether Goku's around or not, the others are complete and utter shit and even the second tier enemies tend to be too much for th other characters and so Goku has to do almost everything. I do agree that it did understand some of the characters better than Super does, though I wouldn't say that's true for all of them. Like Goku was poorly written in Super for most of it but he's honestly been fine as a character this saga. GT Goku wasn't really good but never really hit the lows Super's Goku did.

Super dials it back. The BoG and RoF sagas play like Z sagas in their structure for a bit in that very little if anything at all is truly accomplished until Goku shows up onto the scene. After the retellings, Super's sagas tend to get structured like OG. Where Goku has the overwhelming focus but other characters still do get to do shit on occasions (or in Vegeta's case regularly).

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Bullza » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:06 am

The main character of the series had the most screentime by far? I'm so completely surprised by this...

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Khandom101 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:15 am

It's as if he is the main character huh, who would've guessed. If dragon ball Gt is Goku time then what do you call the original Dragon Ball ( the series which focused the most on Goku ). At least in Super the minor characters get a time to shine unlike in Dragon Ball Z. Judging by your comment history you just hate Goku.
Remember this Dragon ball = Goku
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Side character's = Vegeta, Gohan, Beerus, Whis, Trunks, Piccolo and etc.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:26 am

Guesswhoo wrote:I seriously don't get the complaint, this arc has given many secondary character more focus than in any other arc in the entire franchise and even most anime out there. Each character in U7, minus Tien and Krillin, had a shining moment of awesome for them where Goku only appeared as a secondary character.
Seriously, this fanbase is one the most splitted anime fanbase out there. Nothing can be be done without upsetting many other.
It's why statistizing things is stupid, it can be misleading. Only a handful of episodes have been purely about Goku other times he's appeared alongside others or in background.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by lancerman » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:59 am

What series did more with each character

Gohan- Super
Piccolo- Super
Vegeta- Super
Kuriren- Super
Roshi- Super
Tenshinhan- Super
Yamcha- Super
Videl-Super
Chi Chi- Super
Bulma- Super
17- Super
18- Super
Pan-GT(because she's a baby)
Oob- (because it's too early in the timeline for him to be introduced to the cast)

Which series added more main cast members? Super with Beerus, Whis, Zeno, Jaco, etc
Which series added more characters and lore to the series overall? Super by a mile. Just the current arc alone dwarfs any additions made by GT.

Goku defeated Baby, Super 17, and Omega Shenron in GT. In Super Goku lost to Beerus, killed Freeza after Vegeta essentially won to prevent the Earth from being destroyed, Trunks beat Goku Black/Zamasu with Zeno finishing him off.

You can't compare this to GT when it comes to how Goku centric it was and how other characters were utilized.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Doctor. » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:08 am

"Why is Goku the main character?" and "Why does the main character win?" is basically all this thread can be summed up as.

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Re: Goku Time. They learned nothing from GT.

Post by Hawk9211 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:31 am

If you ask me ,the problem is not in the screen time it is the useless screen time.A lot of times goku appearance were not needed,this also goes to a lot of stuff especially top.

Without making it too long,just take look at the skirmishes,a lot of them were completely discarded like they were not needed at all like 17 vs.biarra or paparoni.
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