Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by buutenks » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:32 pm

Considering the title of ep 126, hell ye he has been satisfactory in the ToP. I cant wait for the ToP to finish so i can sit down and watch it from start to finish.

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:41 pm

Vegeta got a new and unique form in this tournament that let him go beyond Super Saiyan God and reach a whole new level. He received a massive amount of character development involving Universe 6's Cabba, who was his student, his friend, and the catalyst for his new form. Which, i might have forgot to mention, it is a new and unique form that Goku doesn't have. And let's not even go over the fact Vegeta has one of the highest elimination counts in the Tournament and has reached the final 6 in a Tournament comprised of 80 fighters. He has achieved quite a lot in this arc.
I feel like Super Saiyajin Royal Blue would have served Vegeta much better (and actually made sense and been deserved) back during the Zero Mortals Plan.
He already got two iconic and popular moments in that arc that have truly glorified Dragon Ball Super. His first moment of glory was during episode 63, when he avenged his comrade and rival Goku by beating and humiliating Black, who was a fake, a God who had taken control of the body of a Saiyan. And Vegeta taught him a lesson, and I say this as a fan of Zamasu. Then, when he combined his Galick Gun with his son Trunks', pushing back the mastodontic Divine Wrath of Fused Zamasu and saving Earth from certain destruction. He might have not unlocked a new transformation, but it is undeniable that he played a key role and had a lot of screentime and praise in that arc.
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Black Hawk » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:46 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:I see it differently.

Kyabe died entrusting everything to Vegeta, who made a promise to win the tournament and revive U6.
So this has become a huge burden on Vegeta, who needs to keep his promise at any cost.

Not to mention that for the new transformation of Vegeta, we already had Kyabe as motivation. If Bulma and Bra were used in the same scene, then they could not be "saved" for later, at a more critical time (where Vegeta is really being defeated and thinks of them)
That's a good perspective; I hadn't thought of that. If/when Dragon Ball comes back with even higher stakes somehow, Bulma and Bura would definitely need to be Vegeta's biggest motivators; if they were used now, it could end up a case of repetition later on.

Good point, my friend.
SupremeKai25 wrote:He already got two iconic and popular moments in that arc that have truly glorified Dragon Ball Super. His first moment of glory was during episode 63, when he avenged his comrade and rival Goku by beating and humiliating Black, who was a fake, a God who had taken control of the body of a Saiyan. And Vegeta taught him a lesson, and I say this as a fan of Zamasu. Then, when he combined his Galick Gun with his son Trunks', pushing back the mastodontic Divine Wrath of Fused Zamasu and saving Earth from certain destruction. He might have not unlocked a new transformation, but it is undeniable that he played a key role and had a lot of screentime and praise in that arc.
Also good points; regardless of whether or not Vegeta gained a new transformation during the Zero Mortals Plan, his character development and what he achieved during said arc were phenomenal.

I just wish that SSJ Royal Blue had build up and a strong reason for being achieved during the Tournament of Power. I'm now at a loss when it comes to how it could have been introduced in a satisfying way without using Vegeta's biggest motivations at the risk of reusing them later on.
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by BWri » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:31 pm

Black Hawk wrote:
BWri wrote:I feel the same, like every single part of that. To me, I think he should've been more involved with the U6 Saiyans (especially Cabba and maybe Kale), as he and Goku could have both been mentoring them and possibly aligning with them temporarily. I do think that he needed something to close the gap between him and Goku since Goku would have had 2 powerups over him, but his new transformation is trash and its obvious to me that it means very little in the grand scheme of things.
I feel like Super Saiyajin Royal Blue would have served Vegeta much better (and actually made sense and been deserved) back during the Zero Mortals Plan. While Trunks' Super Saiyajin Ikari/Anger/Rage/Hatred/Blue-But-Not-Blue/Etc. kind of came out of nowhere, it made sense from a narrative standpoint; it came in response to Zamas blaming him for everything that had happened and to his own helplessness to be of any use in the battle with Black and Zamas. SSJ Royal Blue could have come to Vegeta in response to his fury at being dominated by a "fake" version of Kakarotto and to his desperation to save the future counterpart of his son; plus, it would have caught him up to Gokū's Kaiōken during the arc after its debut instead of two arcs afterward when it had already been outclassed by Ultra Instinct Omen and made completely irrelevant.
Yeah, that would've been a better time to introduce it. That power up he got before he thrashed Goku Black could've been an early version of SSRB, or at least forshadowed it in some way. I just think that if they wanted to spring a new transformation on us, they shouldn't have given Geets an unconnected Pride Powerup in the previous episode. How about you take the time to build up this current transformation, Toei?
In the Tournament of Power, it's not only pointless, but it came in response to "I MUST KEEP MY PROMISE TO THIS KID I BARELY KNOW AND DON'T EVEN LIKE INSTEAD OF MY NEWBORN DAUGHTER! HRAAAAAAGH!!"
And that baffles me. He has so much going on. So much to motivate him. Why settle for that? Vegeta should be feeling very distraught right now. This massive meat wall of unlimited power stands in the way of the survival of the entire Saiyan race of 2 universes, not to mention his family including his newborn daughter, and defeating that meat wall seems hopeless. Why doesn't that potent mix of emotions serve to push him? I just don't understand the writers sometimes.
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Black Hawk » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:32 am

BWri wrote:Yeah, that would've been a better time to introduce it. That power up he got before he thrashed Goku Black could've been an early version of SSRB, or at least forshadowed it in some way. I just think that if they wanted to spring a new transformation on us, they shouldn't have given Geets an unconnected Pride Powerup in the previous episode. How about you take the time to build up this current transformation, Toei?
In that regard, I really hope SSJ Royal Blue ends up being exclusive to the anime as Toei's solution to "Well, there's too big of a gap between Gokū and Vegeta now because of the Kaiōken, so Vegeta needs something to catch him up." In the manga, Complete Super Saiyajin Blue is already either match for or stronger than Top, and Ultra Instinct Omen, as far as we know, is the only thing that can compete with Jiren, so there's no need for it in the manga (and so far there hasn't been a need or reason for it in the anime).
BWri wrote:And that baffles me. He has so much going on. So much to motivate him. Why settle for that? Vegeta should be feeling very distraught right now. This massive meat wall of unlimited power stands in the way of the survival of the entire Saiyan race of 2 universes, not to mention his family including his newborn daughter, and defeating that meat wall seems hopeless. Why doesn't that potent mix of emotions serve to push him? I just don't understand the writers sometimes.
When the Tournament of Power immediately followed Bura's birth, I thought that would end up being a big story point and Vegeta's reason for everything he does in the tournament. Unless I'm simply forgetting, she hasn't been mentioned a single time since the tournament started. I really hope that Toyotarō will give Vegeta development over the course of the tournament; with only one writer (two if you count Toriyama's changes) working on the manga, it should be a lot more consistent than the anime with its many writers...at least I really, really hope it will. I want to root for Vegeta, but the anime has killed off any chance of that.
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by BWri » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:25 am

Black Hawk wrote: In that regard, I really hope SSJ Royal Blue ends up being exclusive to the anime as Toei's solution to "Well, there's too big of a gap between Gokū and Vegeta now because of the Kaiōken, so Vegeta needs something to catch him up." In the manga, Complete Super Saiyajin Blue is already either match for or stronger than Top, and Ultra Instinct Omen, as far as we know, is the only thing that can compete with Jiren, so there's no need for it in the manga (and so far there hasn't been a need or reason for it in the anime).
I'm sure that is what this form is and that's why I'm not impressed with it. SSB Complete/Full Power/Mastered is just a much more well thought out and executed form. I wish they just gave that to anime Vegeta, but I know it would create some problems with anime Goku not having the form while his manga counterpart does. I knew Vegeta would need an equalizer form, but like you said, I was hoping for a better motivation ... and a more creative design personally.
When the Tournament of Power immediately followed Bura's birth, I thought that would end up being a big story point and Vegeta's reason for everything he does in the tournament. Unless I'm simply forgetting, she hasn't been mentioned a single time since the tournament started.

They might be saving it for Vegeta's climax, but then, why not give him the form at that point, when he has a real emotional breakthrough, since this transformation seems based on some emotion or is it based on promises?
I really hope that Toyotarō will give Vegeta development over the course of the tournament; with only one writer (two if you count Toriyama's changes) working on the manga, it should be a lot more consistent than the anime with its many writers...at least I really, really hope it will. I want to root for Vegeta, but the anime has killed off any chance of that.
The biggest weakness that the manga has, IMO, is a lack of emotion, well any emotion other than anger anyway. I think the anime handles emotions and emotional moments much better even if it sometimes fails spectacularly. But I don't think manga Vegeta will regress as much as anime Vegeta, for what it's worth.
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Black Hawk » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:35 am

BWri wrote:I'm sure that is what this form is and that's why I'm not impressed with it. SSB Complete/Full Power/Mastered is just a much more well thought out and executed form. I wish they just gave that to anime Vegeta, but I know it would create some problems with anime Goku not having the form while his manga counterpart does. I knew Vegeta would need an equalizer form, but like you said, I was hoping for a better motivation ... and a more creative design personally.
If SSJ Royal Blue is indeed just an equalizer because Toei wrote itself into a corner, then that makes SSJ Royal Blue even more disappointing and unnecessary. I really want to like the form because I love Vegeta and seeing him achieve a new SSJ form (particularly since it's only the second time he's done that on-screen after SSJ4) should be special, but, in this case, it's just all wrong in my opinion.
BWri wrote: The biggest weakness that the manga has, IMO, is a lack of emotion, well any emotion other than anger anyway. I think the anime handles emotions and emotional moments much better even if it sometimes fails spectacularly. But I don't think manga Vegeta will regress as much as anime Vegeta, for what it's worth.
I can agree that the manga doesn't convey emotion nearly as well as the anime; the vocal talents for the anime are incredible, especially in the emotion expression department. I also agree that manga Vegeta most likely won't end up as bad as anime Vegeta; I really hope he'll actually turn out great. Certain aspects of the Zero Mortals Plan in the anime really disappointed me, and then the manga version ended up wowing me, so it wouldn't be the first time the manga has done that.
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by BWri » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:03 am

Black Hawk wrote: If SSJ Royal Blue is indeed just an equalizer because Toei wrote itself into a corner, then that makes SSJ Royal Blue even more disappointing and unnecessary. I really want to like the form because I love Vegeta and seeing him achieve a new SSJ form (particularly since it's only the second time he's done that on-screen after SSJ4) should be special, but, in this case, it's just all wrong in my opinion.
I feel the same. Vegeta's not even close to being my favorite character, but I feel he was long overdue for some big powerup to call his own. I didn't like the way the anime handled the power gap between him and Goku and felt Vegeta should've done more to close that gap like he constantly did in the manga. Like I previously mentioned, I love how the manga is handling Vegeta. Sure he's still number 2, but he's never way outclassed and catches up quickly.
I can agree that the manga doesn't convey emotion nearly as well as the anime; the vocal talents for the anime are incredible, especially in the emotion expression department. I also agree that manga Vegeta most likely won't end up as bad as anime Vegeta; I really hope he'll actually turn out great. Certain aspects of the Zero Mortals Plan in the anime really disappointed me, and then the manga version ended up wowing me, so it wouldn't be the first time the manga has done that.
I hope so too. I'm looking forward to Toyotaro's ToP, with slight reservations. My only reservations are that he might speed through it too quickly and miss some great opportunities for character moments. So I don't exactly know what to expect, but I'm hopeful. And that's very true about the anime voice talent. Sometimes I feel that they don't get enough credit. Voice performances have been consistently good throughout the show. For me, nothing beats Zamasu and Goku Black. I feel like the Future Trunks arc spoiled me there. I often have the same conundrum between the anime and manga. Overall, I'd say I liked the anime version of the Future Trunks arc more, thanks to vocal performances and how big it felt. Somehow the manga version ended up feeling smaller to me, while the anime had this grandiose feel, but I preferred how the manga version of events were less mind numbing. Less time machine spamming and whatnot.
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Freezerbaby » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:59 am

Vegetto is already leaked to appear in episode 130, so vegeta,goku and jiren are the final three, freeza,17 ( this one might die) and toppo are out by episode 127 for sure.

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Grimlock » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:03 am

Freezerbaby wrote:Vegetto is already leaked to appear in episode 130,
Huh!? Where did you see that!?
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Freezerbaby » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:06 am

Grimlock wrote:
Freezerbaby wrote:Vegetto is already leaked to appear in episode 130,
Huh!? Where did you see that!?
These were the leaks :

126 : Freezer is exhausted after the phenomenal power of God of Destruction Toppo. In this desperate situation, an explosion of anger invades Vegeta!

127 : Something strange is happening on Vegeta after receiving a powerful blow from Toppo. At this moment, C-17 turns its energy batteries into a bomb, but that has no effect. Freezer feels the loss of the one who never judged him, and fights with all he has against the God Toppo!

128 : Jiren's wish is revealed to all those attending the Tournament. The Gods are speechless, but Goku does not give up and activates the Ultra Instinct again. But this time, something is different ...?

129 : With only one minute remaining, Universe 7 is petrified by fate, with Goku and Vegeta completely exhausted. While Beerus is short of ideas, he talks to Shin

130 : It's the race against time! Goku and Vegeta merged into Vegetto, but Jiren's power continues to increase dramatically, when suddenly ...

131 : Some time has passed since the Tournament of Power. Goku trains with Goten, and then he learns that an interesting person has just registered for a tournament ...

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Totamo » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:11 am

Freezerbaby wrote:
Grimlock wrote:
Freezerbaby wrote:Vegetto is already leaked to appear in episode 130,
Huh!? Where did you see that!?
These were the leaks :

126 : Freezer is exhausted after the phenomenal power of God of Destruction Toppo. In this desperate situation, an explosion of anger invades Vegeta!

127 : Something strange is happening on Vegeta after receiving a powerful blow from Toppo. At this moment, C-17 turns its energy batteries into a bomb, but that has no effect. Freezer feels the loss of the one who never judged him, and fights with all he has against the God Toppo!

128 : Jiren's wish is revealed to all those attending the Tournament. The Gods are speechless, but Goku does not give up and activates the Ultra Instinct again. But this time, something is different ...?

129 : With only one minute remaining, Universe 7 is petrified by fate, with Goku and Vegeta completely exhausted. While Beerus is short of ideas, he talks to Shin

130 : It's the race against time! Goku and Vegeta merged into Vegetto, but Jiren's power continues to increase dramatically, when suddenly ...

131 : Some time has passed since the Tournament of Power. Goku trains with Goten, and then he learns that an interesting person has just registered for a tournament ...
That discredit this whole list.

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Grimlock » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:14 am

Something feels off and weird to me. Are these confirmed to be true? I searched Herms' Twitter and didn't find anything regarding to it.
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Freezerbaby » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:22 am

Grimlock wrote:Something feels off and weird to me. Are these confirmed to be true? I searched Herms' Twitter and didn't find anything regarding to it.
They are true 100% up to episode 127, after that I would say those leaks are highly likely to be true.

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Saturnine » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:51 am

I wouldn't mind these leaks to be true in the slightest, they sound utterly badarse!

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:58 am

So, if those leaks are correct, there will be a timeskip of weeks/months ('some time has passed') between episode 130 and 131? Very interesting. I also wonder what Jiren's wish will be? It will leave the Gods speechless... so will it be such a good and kind wish that the Gods don't have words to describe Jiren's heroism, or will it be such a despicable and heinous wish that the Gods won't have words to describe Jiren's cruelty and malice?
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:38 pm

I'm very satisfied with Vegetas character this arc. We've seen a blossoming of his and Cabbes relationship. What I really would love to see is one final moment where he does it for Bulma, Trunks, and Bulla. But if we don't get that I'll still feel satisfied

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by sintzu » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:44 pm

Totamo wrote:
Freezerbaby wrote:
Grimlock wrote:
Huh!? Where did you see that!?
These were the leaks :

126 : Freezer is exhausted after the phenomenal power of God of Destruction Toppo. In this desperate situation, an explosion of anger invades Vegeta!

127 : Something strange is happening on Vegeta after receiving a powerful blow from Toppo. At this moment, C-17 turns its energy batteries into a bomb, but that has no effect. Freezer feels the loss of the one who never judged him, and fights with all he has against the God Toppo!

128 : Jiren's wish is revealed to all those attending the Tournament. The Gods are speechless, but Goku does not give up and activates the Ultra Instinct again. But this time, something is different ...?

129 : With only one minute remaining, Universe 7 is petrified by fate, with Goku and Vegeta completely exhausted. While Beerus is short of ideas, he talks to Shin

130 : It's the race against time! Goku and Vegeta merged into Vegetto, but Jiren's power continues to increase dramatically, when suddenly ...

131 : Some time has passed since the Tournament of Power. Goku trains with Goten, and then he learns that an interesting person has just registered for a tournament ...
That discredit this whole list.
127 seemingly ended up being true so...
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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Professor Freeza » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:50 pm

He got his first New form on screen. Thats great enough for me.

Not to mention he had a good showing against Jiren AND got a lot of Eliminations. Will probably make top 3

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Re: Vegeta's participation was satisfactory in ToP?

Post by Herms » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:50 pm

Freezerbaby wrote:
Grimlock wrote:Something feels off and weird to me. Are these confirmed to be true? I searched Herms' Twitter and didn't find anything regarding to it.
They are true 100% up to episode 127, after that I would say those leaks are highly likely to be true.
They're fake; there's no legitimate information for 126 and 127 beyond provisional titles and air dates, and not even any titles for 128 and beyond.
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