Jiren is...weird

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The gr
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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by The gr » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:46 pm

Jigurashi wrote: This is evident by the fact that he didn't shit talk Dyspo for losing. He isn't all that inconsistent tbh. He's always been stoic, but also cocky, and an asshole. At the same time he clearly values justice (at least his own) and fighting for a purpose. Looks down on Hit cause he believes an assassin can't have pride, looks down on Toppo for throwing away his Pride and everything he stood for only to accomplish nothing and lose to someone who stood by his own beliefs. He seems to respect Vegeta whereas he seems more indifferent with Goku who simply fights just to fight and get stronger.

There's nothing really inconsistent about it, and had Toppo lost to Freeza and 17 before throwing away his pride, Jiren wouldn't have said anything. If anything it gave Jiren a bit more to his currently shallow character
Exactly,is not that hard to understand his morals.It certainly add more shades to this character, just wish they elaborated this earlier,I would loved to see Jiren annoyed at Toppo being a candidate instead of seeing Kahseral saving cats.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Asura » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:16 pm

The good news is Jiren does in fact have a personality now. The bad news is it’s inconsistent, and with only 5 people left in the ring the only thing we’ve learned about him is

1) He wants to make a wish with the Super Dragon Balls
2) He seeks something beyond strength
3) He is insanely overpowered

That’s really it. That’s the entire character. I can say that I really do like how unstoppable they’ve made him out to be where nothing they’re doing seems to even inflict a scratch on him after all of this time, and he has a very intimidating presence about him as a result. Unfortunately though he fails spectacularly as an actual character and the fact that we still know virtually nothing about him when we’re only like 5 episodes away from the finale is pretty sad.

Also the problem with the shade he throws at Toppo is that it comes across as Jiren being an asshole who thinks Toppo is pathetic for losing to Vegeta, and not that Jiren is just disappointed in Toppo for giving up his justice. People cite the manga as an example of how much Jiren values justice, but we have barely seen any of that in the anime

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by The gr » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:27 pm

Asura wrote:The good news is Jiren does in fact have a personality now. The bad news is it’s inconsistent, and with only 5 people left in the ring the only thing we’ve learned about him is

1) He wants to make a wish with the Super Dragon Balls
2) He seeks something beyond strength
3) He is insanely overpowered

That’s really it. That’s the entire character. I can say that I really do like how unstoppable they’ve made him out to be where nothing they’re doing seems to even inflict a scratch on him after all of this time, and he has a very intimidating presence about him as a result. Unfortunately though he fails spectacularly as an actual character and the fact that we still know virtually nothing about him when we’re only like 5 episodes away from the finale is pretty sad.

Also the problem with the shade he throws at Toppo is that it comes across as Jiren being an asshole who thinks Toppo is pathetic for losing to Vegeta, and not that Jiren is just disappointed in Toppo for giving up his justice. People cite the manga as an example of how much Jiren values justice, but we have barely seen any of that in the anime
Jiren praise Vegeta he didn't throw his shades while being mad at Toppo at the same time,is an indication that Jiren in this version put value at pride and justice instead of destruction, remember he didn't even got mad at Dyspo when he loss.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Asura » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:29 pm

The gr wrote:
Asura wrote:The good news is Jiren does in fact have a personality now. The bad news is it’s inconsistent, and with only 5 people left in the ring the only thing we’ve learned about him is

1) He wants to make a wish with the Super Dragon Balls
2) He seeks something beyond strength
3) He is insanely overpowered

That’s really it. That’s the entire character. I can say that I really do like how unstoppable they’ve made him out to be where nothing they’re doing seems to even inflict a scratch on him after all of this time, and he has a very intimidating presence about him as a result. Unfortunately though he fails spectacularly as an actual character and the fact that we still know virtually nothing about him when we’re only like 5 episodes away from the finale is pretty sad.

Also the problem with the shade he throws at Toppo is that it comes across as Jiren being an asshole who thinks Toppo is pathetic for losing to Vegeta, and not that Jiren is just disappointed in Toppo for giving up his justice. People cite the manga as an example of how much Jiren values justice, but we have barely seen any of that in the anime
Jiren praise Vegeta he didn't throw his shades while being mad at Toppo at the same time,is an indication that Jiren in this version put value at pride and justice instead of destruction, remember he didn't even got mad at Dyspo when he loss.
Jiren criticizes Vegeta saying his attacks are full of arrogance. He didn't praise Vegeta either, he just considers him a warrior. I guess that could technically be praise, but it means nothing in terms of justice.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:47 pm

The gr wrote:
Jigurashi wrote: This is evident by the fact that he didn't shit talk Dyspo for losing. He isn't all that inconsistent tbh. He's always been stoic, but also cocky, and an asshole. At the same time he clearly values justice (at least his own) and fighting for a purpose. Looks down on Hit cause he believes an assassin can't have pride, looks down on Toppo for throwing away his Pride and everything he stood for only to accomplish nothing and lose to someone who stood by his own beliefs. He seems to respect Vegeta whereas he seems more indifferent with Goku who simply fights just to fight and get stronger.

There's nothing really inconsistent about it, and had Toppo lost to Freeza and 17 before throwing away his pride, Jiren wouldn't have said anything. If anything it gave Jiren a bit more to his currently shallow character
Exactly,is not that hard to understand his morals.It certainly add more shades to this character, just wish they elaborated this earlier,I would loved to see Jiren annoyed at Toppo being a candidate instead of seeing Kahseral saving cats.
Same. I'm starting to like him more as he's finally gaining even an ounce of depth to him. I can see why people wouldn't like Jiren, but this whole topic of him being inconsistent really makes no sense. Not sure why some are surprised he's an asshole. He can be cocky, stoic, and reserved at the same time.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:50 pm

Asura wrote:
Also the problem with the shade he throws at Toppo is that it comes across as Jiren being an asshole who thinks Toppo is pathetic for losing to Vegeta, and not that Jiren is just disappointed in Toppo for giving up his justice. People cite the manga as an example of how much Jiren values justice, but we have barely seen any of that in the anime
Even if the latter is true, it feels forced and pretentious. How does gaining God of Destruction power equate to giving up Justice? In the end, Toppo did it in an attempt to protect his universe. How is that not justice or heroic? It's not like he used his new power to go on a killing spree for shits and giggles. Jiren criticizing Toppo for this simply makes Jiren come across as someone who feels himself to be on some sort of moral high horse. As if because he's as powerful as he is, suddenly he has all the moral insight.
Last edited by Melee_Sovereign on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:52 pm

Asura wrote:
The gr wrote:
Asura wrote:The good news is Jiren does in fact have a personality now. The bad news is it’s inconsistent, and with only 5 people left in the ring the only thing we’ve learned about him is

1) He wants to make a wish with the Super Dragon Balls
2) He seeks something beyond strength
3) He is insanely overpowered

That’s really it. That’s the entire character. I can say that I really do like how unstoppable they’ve made him out to be where nothing they’re doing seems to even inflict a scratch on him after all of this time, and he has a very intimidating presence about him as a result. Unfortunately though he fails spectacularly as an actual character and the fact that we still know virtually nothing about him when we’re only like 5 episodes away from the finale is pretty sad.

Also the problem with the shade he throws at Toppo is that it comes across as Jiren being an asshole who thinks Toppo is pathetic for losing to Vegeta, and not that Jiren is just disappointed in Toppo for giving up his justice. People cite the manga as an example of how much Jiren values justice, but we have barely seen any of that in the anime
Jiren praise Vegeta he didn't throw his shades while being mad at Toppo at the same time,is an indication that Jiren in this version put value at pride and justice instead of destruction, remember he didn't even got mad at Dyspo when he loss.
Jiren criticizes Vegeta saying his attacks are full of arrogance. He didn't praise Vegeta either, he just considers him a warrior. I guess that could technically be praise, but it means nothing in terms of justice.
Yes, and Jiren realized he was wrong. Jiren claimed that about Vegeta in 122 but saw in 126 something he appreciated. Vegeta embraced his arrogance when Jiren said it in 122, and Jiren saw firsthand how strong that principle of pride it was for Vegeta. He complimented Vegeta this episode for standing by his own convictions and not needing to sacrifice it to gain results. With how basic Jiren is, this really isn't inconsistent since there really wasn't anything to be inconsistent with.
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Asura wrote:
Also the problem with the shade he throws at Toppo is that it comes across as Jiren being an asshole who thinks Toppo is pathetic for losing to Vegeta, and not that Jiren is just disappointed in Toppo for giving up his justice. People cite the manga as an example of how much Jiren values justice, but we have barely seen any of that in the anime
Even if the latter is true, it feels forced and pretentious. How does gaining God of Destruction power equate to giving up Justice? In the end, Toppo did it in an attempt to protect his universe. How is that not justice or heroic? It's not like he used his new power to go on a killing spree for shits and giggles. Jiren criticizing Toppo for this simply makes Jiren appear that he feels himself to be on some sort of moral high horse. As if because he's as powerful as he is, suddenly he has all the moral insight.
He is on a moral high horse lol.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:58 pm

Jigurashi wrote: He is on a moral high horse lol.
Exactly! There's two possible reasons Jiren insulted Toppo. One, it's because he's simply being an ass because Toppo got eliminated. Or, it's because he equates gaining GoD power as casting aside a sense of justice. Both reasons are equally bad. Actually, scratch that. The latter reason is worse.

Simply being an ass is one thing. But being an ass who's on a moral high horse is another thing completely. I think I'd prefer it if Jiren were just being an ass.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:22 pm

Why are people always so obsessesed with personalities? I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, NOT every character needs to have a personality you know.. Can’t you guys just see and accept once and for all that Jiren has no personality? He’s just the strong silent type with a lot of arrogance and badassery. Nothing more nothing less. It’s time to end this obsession with trying to look for this thing people call a “personality” in Jiren. He doesn’t. And that’s totally OK. Not everyone needs to have one. If you want to watch someone with a personality, go watch the previous arc and watch Zamasu and Goku Black.
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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Asura » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:40 pm

The “not every character needs a personality” argument is so ridiculous it’s hard to even take seriously. If a character has no personality, then he has no character.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Jigurashi » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:05 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Jigurashi wrote: He is on a moral high horse lol.
Exactly! There's two possible reasons Jiren insulted Toppo. One, it's because he's simply being an ass because Toppo got eliminated. Or, it's because he equates gaining GoD power as casting aside a sense of justice. Both reasons are equally bad. Actually, scratch that. The latter reason is worse.

Simply being an ass is one thing. But being an ass who's on a moral high horse is another thing completely. I think I'd prefer it if Jiren were just being an ass.
Either? It's probably both tbh.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:13 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:Why are people always so obsessesed with personalities? I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, NOT every character needs to have a personality you know.
It's not that he just lacks a personality in a literal sense. He has a personality. It's just a very poorly developed personality, not to mention unlikable.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:17 pm

Based on what I've seen and read of people's comments, there seems to be a few common threads to Jiren's characterization and actions.

He seems to chastise those who don't fight with purpose, without conviction; assassins like Hit, martial artists like Goku, and now a former superhero who threw away his drive to become stronger.

When he respects someone, it's because they went above and beyond in their power. He also has some strange views on strength, as he seeks something beyond it and doesn't seem to acknowledge the strengths of those who are beneath him.

He seems to be someone who values real drive and power in people, though what else that could mean is unknown.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:07 pm

Overall I like his stoic nature, but I do agree he is bland compared to others. The only thing I gathered on why he is dissapointed in Toppo is that he threw away his sense of Justice for power of destruction. When he said to him self "so you made your choice..." or something like that, it sounded a bit of dissapointment. I think he looks for a purpose, which is why he gets agitated at Goku or Vegeta just to fight to get stronger. Hopefully, sometime in the next few episodes, they explore a bit more of him. We know he has a wish he wants to use, but not sure for what reason.
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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Yomi » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:10 am

He does have a personality, it's just not eccentric enough for people to consider it a personality.
:clap:

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:25 am

Reading this thread and the interpretations people have come up with, I can't help but feel like Jiren is either the deepest character Dragon Ball has ever come up with, or the shallowest. These next few episodes will be what decides that.

Either way, I think we can all agree that the scene at the end of 126 could have been presented better, and that there's potential for a really interesting character that isn't being utilised.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Nero<>Akira » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:43 pm

there's nothing wrong in the consistency of jiren's character; people just don't really know what they're talking about. Jiren is a man of justice, looks down on self-righteousness, doesn't believe in honor amongst criminals or what you would classify as evil, arrogant, has pride in himself, seeks more than just strength, and a has severely strict sense of ethics (he looked down on his own comrade and praised his enemy for maintaining true to himself despite the situation they are currently in). The thing is Jiren, for the most part, is stoic in personality. Given what he wants, something beyond strength, it's appropriate to have him be silent. It reflects an alluded contemplative nature. I bet most have never even delved that deep in the character but i digress. Some people like the stoicisim and some people don't. But to say he has no character baffles me. Whether you like the execution or not is up to you as well. It's subjective with liking it. But he has character and i think how he's been characterized throughout the arc instead of giving that one gigantic cliche monologue revealing everything about him that everyone expects and wants is lame and predictable. Jiren isn't weird. People are just used to him being silent that they think he's "mischaracterized" which is ironic because people criticize him for being boring or a nothing character; the moment they give him more to work with, he's labeled as out of character lol
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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by TheMikado » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:12 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:Why are people always so obsessesed with personalities? I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, NOT every character needs to have a personality you know.. Can’t you guys just see and accept once and for all that Broly has no personality? He’s just the strong silent type with a lot of arrogance and badassery. Nothing more nothing less. It’s time to end this obsession with trying to look for this thing people call a “personality” in Broly. He doesn’t. And that’s totally OK. Not everyone needs to have one. If you want to watch someone with a personality, go watch the previous arc and watch Zamasu and Goku Black.
I feel like I just walked into a Broly thread. Just for fun I replaced Jirens name with Broly.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by Miracles » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:44 pm

Jiren is the best character in this tourney. His few words are meaningful and is about action.

Kicking Goku was the best thing in the episode.

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Re: Jiren is...weird

Post by BrolyKale » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:58 pm

Jiren is awesome, the lack of personality doesn't mean anything. You can be silent or talk a little bit and still arouse one's curiosity, I honestly want to know more about Jiren's past than Caulifla's or Kale's past. Its not because a character or a person irl doesnt have a personality that it means its bad or boring or uninteresting, a lot of people (myself included) love characters who are very quiet or characters who don't talk very often, this is what makes them unique. Its fine if you dont like these type of characters but its getting annoying to read comments like "jiren has no personality so he sucks", "hes the worst antogonist because he has no personality".... Jiren is an honorable man, I don't think he is arrogant but just extremely confident. I really like him and I hope to learn more about him in the future.

Some people here make it sound like if a character doesn't have a "personality" then this character shouldn't have existed or should just disappear from the anime or should immediately get a personality otherwise the character automatically sucks... also Ribrianne has a personality but people still complain about her because..???
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