(Spoilers for 126) Writing inconsistency - One of worst parts of Super

[coola]

Thats one of things i dont like in Super, because there are multiple writers, next episode can feel completely different than previous one in terms of how character is written or what happened? Freeza barely stand in last episode, he is fine now, Vegeta spam Final Flashes like crazy...power consistency, what is that?

[Michsi]

Having multiple writers isn't such a bad thing, not as long as they're all on the same page. Take today's episode, for instance. I had forgotten that 126 was written by the same person that did 119, which is considered one of the weakest episodes of the arc, but remembered that little detail while I was watching it. Apparently this writer is also a newcomer to the franchise and a lot of people wondered how familiar they were with the characters and the story. I'm not generally one to nitpick, but I couldn't help but be a little annoyed at that scene where they thought that causing rubble to fall on someone that was supposed to be a god of destruction was a smart and sound plan. This was the sort of gambit that would've made sense and looked cook in a lot of other anime, but not in Dragon Ball. Not against characters that we were shown could literally destroy planets. Just an example. I'm mean it's not the only or even worst offender when it comes to consistency issues, but you get my point.

[Torturephile]

Seems that the writers that setup a character or a key plot element in one episode usually overdeliver and the ones that handle them the episode after screw up by either not utilizing their full potential, forgetting certain aspects of them, or speed through everything to rush the plot forward. Examples are U4, Toppo, Tagoma and Ginyu, Gohan (to some fans), Frost, etc.

Another big problem I see are the callbacks they rely on as well, their prominent utilization in Super hurts the show since they don't come up with original moments that could make the show stand on its own, rather than repeat scenes that already occurred in Z, albeit in a worsely executed fashion, which is another problem.

[buutenks]

Dont worry, once Super anime is done, most will just go with the manga, which thankfully has only 1 writer, so it wont be so inconsistent.

Toei enjoys butchering the plot in their favor. Take the Luffy vs Doflamingo fight.

[spoiler]In the Anime it is a power struggle and Luffy overcomes because of nakama power. In the manga, he instantly wrecks Doffy with his final attack, no nakama power BS. Since i read the chapter way before the anime episode aired with that fight, i was disgusted with how Toei handled the fight[/spoiler]

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Having multiple writers isn't such a bad thing, not as long as they're all on the same page. Take today's episode, for instance. I had forgotten that 126 was written by the same person that did 119, which is considered one of the weakest episodes of the arc, but remembered that little detail while I was watching it. Apparently this writer is also a newcomer to the franchise and a lot of people wondered how familiar they were with the characters and the story. I'm not generally one to nitpick, but I couldn't help but be a little annoyed at that scene where they thought that causing rubble to fall on someone that was supposed to be a god of destruction was a smart and sound plan. This was the sort of gambit that would've made sense and looked cook in a lot of other anime, but not in Dragon Ball. Not against characters that we were shown could literally destroy planets. Just an example. I'm mean it's not the only or even worst offender when it comes to consistency issues, but you get my point.

Is THAT why the episode was executed so badly? AND he wrote that really meh episode 119? Jeezus Cripes, man. I appreciated some of the ideas it had, like Vegeta getting his major win, having this selfless pride, but that was just about it. I mean, rocks, seriously, ROCKS, being able to even scratch a Hakaishin? Wtf.

I need to make it a point not to hold such anticipation for episodes these days, because I honestly feel a bit empty after watching them. My expectations for Super as a whole dropped after the last three episodes of the Future Trunks arc, but the only reason why disappointment happened this time because last week's episode was unexpectedly good in juxtaposition to this week's own.

[Michsi]

Having multiple writers isn't such a bad thing, not as long as they're all on the same page. Take today's episode, for instance. I had forgotten that 126 was written by the same person that did 119, which is considered one of the weakest episodes of the arc, but remembered that little detail while I was watching it. Apparently this writer is also a newcomer to the franchise and a lot of people wondered how familiar they were with the characters and the story. I'm not generally one to nitpick, but I couldn't help but be a little annoyed at that scene where they thought that causing rubble to fall on someone that was supposed to be a god of destruction was a smart and sound plan. This was the sort of gambit that would've made sense and looked cook in a lot of other anime, but not in Dragon Ball. Not against characters that we were shown could literally destroy planets. Just an example. I'm mean it's not the only or even worst offender when it comes to consistency issues, but you get my point.

Is THAT why the episode was executed so badly? AND he wrote that really meh episode 119? Jeezus Cripes, man. I appreciated some of the ideas it had, like Vegeta getting his major win, having this selfless pride, but that was just about it. I mean, rocks, seriously, ROCKS, being able to even scratch a Hakaishin? Wtf.

I need to make it a point not to hold such anticipation for episodes these days, because I honestly feel a bit empty after watching them. My expectations for Super as a whole dropped after the last three episodes of the Future Trunks arc, but the only reason why disappointment happened this time because last week's episode was unexpectedly good in juxtaposition to this week's own.

If the information I've seen is correct, yeah, this person is on their second or third episode of this franchise (don't quote me on this). Technically, the blame shouldn't fall exclusively on their shoulders since I assume scripts get checked and approved, but given the scheduling issues the production has, they might not stop to correct everything.

[sintzu]

I'm hoping this is one of the tings a break will help improve in Super.

[Dbzfan94]

I'm hoping this is one of the tings a break will help improve in Super.

Super is ending. The next show wont be DBS.

[sintzu]

I'm hoping this is one of the tings a break will help improve in Super.

Super is ending. The next show wont be DBS.

Regardless of Super returning or a new show taking its place, the writing will hopefully improve with the extra time they've got to work on it. Gintama and Fairy tail have taken breaks then came back with the same title so I don't see why Super can't come back, especially with how popular it is.

[perucho1990]

I'm hoping this is one of the tings a break will help improve in Super.

Super is ending. The next show wont be DBS.

Regardless of Super returning or a new show taking its place, the writing will hopefully improve with the extra time they've got to work on it. Gintama and Fairy tail have taken breaks then came back with the same title so I don't see why Super can't come back, especially with how popular it is.

They would have to give Toyotaro creative control if DB returns, Mashima said he will have creative control in the last FT Season.

Keep Toshio, and Tomioka, and fire the rest of the writers and also get some competent directors.

Sakurada should also get the boot if he is the main reason the ToP was a U7 wankfest.

[sintzu]

Sakurada should also get the boot if he is the main reason the ToP was a U7 wankfest.

The reason it was like that was because 1- No one else was developed apart from them and U6 and 2- Toriyama's outline was probably very vague and just focused on 7's main fighters.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Super is ending. The next show wont be DBS.

Regardless of Super returning or a new show taking its place, the writing will hopefully improve with the extra time they've got to work on it. Gintama and Fairy tail have taken breaks then came back with the same title so I don't see why Super can't come back, especially with how popular it is.

They would have to give Toyotaro creative control if DB returns, Mashima said he will have creative control in the last FT Season.

Keep Toshio, and Tomioka, and fire the rest of the writers and also get some competent directors.

Sakurada should also get the boot if he is the main reason the ToP was a U7 wankfest.

Heck no to Toyotaro

Toyotaro is the reason why the manga is such a forgettable after thought

Hes so concerned with "logic" and "logical power scaling" and always pleasing elitests, that he never takes any risks. His scripts are always boring and plain


The wackiness and unpredictability of Toriyama/Toei is what makes DBZ/Super so entertaining

You NEED that stuff

The anime shits all over the magna when it comes to charcater moments and epicness

When chapter 2 of Super comes back they just need to do what they have been doing except on a more consistent basis

Super was an amazing show that was just hampered at times by a grueling schedule and production issues....that will all be fixed when it comes back with no time constraints and time to pre-plan

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Also for all those peoppe praising Toyotaro and seriously claiming that the manga is more canon,

Heres a devestating fact for you

Toriyama's transcripts DID NOT include Vegetto in the future trunks arc

IT WAS TOYOTARO who went against Toryiama's canon scripts and who fought Toei to include Veggeto for "fan service"

Toriyama's canon transcripts also never had Vegeta going SSgod. Thats another Toyotaro invention. The magna is NON-canon because of Toyotaro.

Toyotaro taking over Super chapter 2 would be the worst

Super started improving because Toei stopped listening to Toyotaro amd started giving Toriyama 100% rulership and precedence

[Michsi]

Ok, I'm not here to claim one is better than the other, but people need to stop using that Vegetto example as a tool to discredit the writing. Toyotaro made a suggestion and Toriyama chose to use it. He did this all the time back when he was writing DB too. He openly admitted that he listened to his editors and make all sorts of adjustments based on them.

[Saturnine]

Also for all those peoppe praising Toyotaro and seriously claiming that the manga is more canon,

Heres a devestating fact for you

Toriyama's transcripts DID NOT include Vegetto in the future trunks arc

IT WAS TOYOTARO who went against Toryiama's canon scripts and who fought Toei to include Veggeto for "fan service"

Toriyama's canon transcripts also never had Vegeta going SSgod. Thats another Toyotaro invention. The magna is NON-canon because of Toyotaro.

Toyotaro taking over Super chapter 2 would be the worst

Super started improving because Toei stopped listening to Toyotaro amd started giving Toriyama 100% rulership and precedence

1) Just because Toyotaro came up with something, it doesn't undermine canonicity at all, since Toriyama had to accept it in the first place
2) Canonicity or lack thereof is not the same as quality
3) Just so we're clear on that, I still think GT sucks unfathomable arse

[ZenkaiBoosts]

Also for all those peoppe praising Toyotaro and seriously claiming that the manga is more canon,

Heres a devestating fact for you

Toriyama's transcripts DID NOT include Vegetto in the future trunks arc

IT WAS TOYOTARO who went against Toryiama's canon scripts and who fought Toei to include Veggeto for "fan service"

Toriyama's canon transcripts also never had Vegeta going SSgod. Thats another Toyotaro invention. The magna is NON-canon because of Toyotaro.

Toyotaro taking over Super chapter 2 would be the worst

Super started improving because Toei stopped listening to Toyotaro amd started giving Toriyama 100% rulership and precedence

1) Just because Toyotaro came up with something, it doesn't undermine canonicity at all, since Toriyama had to accept it in the first place
2) Canonicity or lack thereof is not the same as quality
3) Just so we're clear on that, I still think GT sucks unfathomable arse

Yeah it does. Toriyama's transcripts=canon.

I love how people have created this false myth that the anime/toei does it own thing and doesnt follow Toryiama's canon scripts, yet in actual reality its Toyotaro whos responsible for introducing the most hated things in Super. Yet in reality its Toyotaro who is constantly GOING AWAY from Toriyama's canon scripts and trying to do his own thing

The internet doesnt like to hear the truth thats its the popular anime that IS the MOST canon and most closesly in line with Toriyama

[emperior]

I also had a problem with Freeza re-appearing out of nowhere, and the Final Flash/Kamehameha spam has been absurdly bad in this tournament.

[Saturnine]

Of course the anime is less influenced by Toyotaro, well duh! He's got considerable free rein for writing the manga. Still, I don't think it undermines canonicity per se. Toyotaro has designed some of the Gods of Destruction after all. You'd have to consider these particular GoDs filler, going by your logic.

[Dragon Wukong]

Personally I'd love it if Toyotaro took full control, or heck, if they restarted from the U6 Arc and used the manga as source material.

I'm honestly sick of giving characters transformations just for the sake of transforming. SSRage being as powerful as Godly forms essentially made those forms irrelevant IMO. Toppo's "God of Destruction" transformation looked cool, but in the back of my head I'm thinking about how none of the other Gods of Destruction showed a transformation like this or indicate they had to transform to use their powers. Not to mention, Toppo's Destructive aura stopped having meaning in the episode after he transforms. The rocks was a horrible idea. I also felt like Vegeta's "Beyond Blue" was just put in to bring Vegeta to Goku's Kaioken level before the series ends. I'd be surprised if it appears in the manga considering they've mastered SSB and Ultra Instinct is implied to be the next thing for both of them, with Vegeta explicitly having interest in achieving it before Goku.

You can also potentially call me out on the irony, but I really, REALLY disliked how they kept constantly foreshadowing Caulifla/Kale/Kefla going Super Saiyan 3, literally since episode 100, but Kefla never goes past Super Saiyan 2. The one time I would've accepted a cool transformation for the sake of transforming (justified IMO based on Gotenks achieving SS3 easily) also happens to be the one time they ignore the blatant SS3 transformation everyone was waiting for. It's the basics of writing, you know? Don't put a freaking blunderbuss on the wall and point it out unless someone is actually going to use it later. The same could be said for Gohan's "I'll achieve an Ultimate form no one has seen before." Now, I'm glad that Gohan didn't get a transformation for the sake of transforming, but I'm also mad because that line implied something that was never going to happen, and in all honesty should have gone to Vegeta of all people.

I don't know. I just feel like these next 5 episodes are going to be a train wreck. The series overall has left me feeling disappointed, especially when I know with some more communication and time it could have been something truly great. There have been some truly great 10/10 moments here and there, so I know it's true. This ending feels like Arc-V all over again.

[8bitdee]

This is just my opinion, but I think the inconsistency is a cause of the series having no cornerstone. Sure, Toriyama gives TOEI bullet points, but then they have to half-assedly fill in the details, and it shows. I'd be all up for Toyotaro taking over if it mean consistency. As I wrote in another thread:

[spoiler]I’m thankful to Toriyama for creating and giving us this franchise what we love so much, but he needs to go. The same way George Lucas had to go for Star Wars to be mildly watchable again.

Toriyama isn’t invested enough in the series. He’s happy to provide bullet points for TOEI but that’s about it, and the anime suffers for it, because TOEI has to half-assedly fill in the rest. Aside from Bardock, I’ve yet to enjoy a TOEI-only DragonBall plotline or concept.

I want a cornerstone who has a young person’s passion for this series and I believe Toyotaro is currently that person based on his current work. Someone with passion and willingness to have creative control over the whole thing and not Toriyama who just provides an outline of a plot and happily goes back to his semi-retired life while TOEI stumbles trying to create something worthy.

Let Toyataro catch up with the Super manga during the “hiatus”. Once he’s done with Super, have him take over full creative control of a post-Z manga series, and after a few years of manga content TOEI can then adapt it into the new anime series with Toyataro as an advisor so there’s flow and consistency between the two instead of this disjointing of the two we currently have thanks to Toriyama going “And then he gets blue hair!… you guys figure out the rest.”

I’ve read that in interviews Toyotaro has been called Toriyama’s “chosen successor”, but he still has to play by the rules of plot points given to him. Take Toriyama away and take those restraints off of Toyotaro. The guy’s young, passionate, has a good grasp of the DragonBall world and most importantly can provide a fresh new take on DB rather than just relying on concepts from the past. Not to mention he probably knows DB better than Toriyama as he’s infamously known for forgetting series concepts/characters he’s introduced (which have become the reasons for many fan frustrations).

So yeah, that’s what I would want. Let the anime rest for a while, then make a grand return with new post-Z Toyotaro material. DBS is almost fan-fiction level anyway, so why not let someone who created fan-fiction out of love and passion for the series take over.

Of course I don’t see it happening as money is the only language anime studios speak.

I leave with this, an interview excerpt:

“Toyotarō:
Ultimately things need to head towards the conclusion indicated by Toriyama-sensei‘s original draft, but during that process I want to give various characters things to do… At times like that I depart slightly from the script, but I guess you could say I’m faithful to its essence.

Toriyama:
I welcome it! After all, you know far more about Dragon Ball than I do.

Toyotarō:
Well, my goal is to be the No. 1 fan (laughs). Still, it’s not just about my desire to give various characters a chance to shine; there are also times when this sort of thing is necessary to arrive at the goal you’ve indicated, Toriyama-sensei. For instance, if the goal is for Goku to have a direct showdown with Zamasu at the end, I can’t simply have Goku reach that point in peak condition. There needs to be various twists and turns before the two can face off against each other. This time around in the “Future Trunks arc”, there were many such twists and turns that I created… though I was a bit uncertain about them…

Toriyama:
No, it’s better that way! I think it’s better to let your individuality as an author shine through, rather than just follow the path I set down for you. It would be unbalanced if it were all just my ideas, so it’s better like this.

Toyotarō:
While I tried not to take things too far afield, I certainly did get to use many of my own ideas at points. Like thinking “wouldn’t it be interesting if Trunks trained in the Kaiōshin Realm, and had healing powers?”

Toriyama:
It’s definitely better that way.”[/spoiler]


My hope is that Toriyama and TOEI are currently seeing how Toyotaro performs with Super before deciding whether to hand off the series to him.