For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Torturephile » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:02 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Torturephile wrote:Good music doesn't write or animate a show better than bad music, so people will still dislike Super regardless.

As for me, I rather keep Super's score in place as Kikuchi's score, as much as I like it, is far too vintage for a modern show, and they don't belong together. Most of the bad Super score comes from the retellings which I normally skip, and things got better since the future saga.

I never heard a single track from Yamamoto's score, so I won't comment on his work.
Am I missing something here? People talking as if Super was a failure. Super has been one of the most successful animes in history and has been widely acclaimed and regarded for the most part.

Anyways, I agree that some of the scores in Super sound way too classical (old) It doesnt match.

The Bruce Falconer soundtrack will always be the greatest soundtrack that fit the epicness of Dragon Ball to a tee and kicked everything up notches to another level.
Poor wording on my part, but I don't see how did I imply or stated that Super was a failure, in fact, it is far from it, but it has its fair share of flaws that have been discussed ad nauseam. What I meant was that those already disliking Super wouldn't have been much more impressed by it having either Kikuchi or Yamamoto's score.

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Asura » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:39 pm

I love Yamamoto despite his plagiarism, Battle Point Unlimited is one of my favorite songs of all time, not just among Dragon Ball songs. It's just so trippy sounding! I would have loved to see what he could do for Super, and I think it could have helped Super in the BoG, RoF, and U6 arcs which had some really downright boring, unmemorable, and sometimes straight up terrible music from Sumitomo. However, he changed his game in the Future Trunks arc, and even more-so in the ToP arc to the point where I can't imagine any other soundtrack replacing the ToP one right now. The new songs have just been stellar, and the music placement spot on. Kikuchi I think is just far too outdated at this point, and to have the exact same soundtrack in every single iteration of the show (from DB to Z to Kai to Super) is rather boring. Either way though, music was just one of the issues in the beginning of Super, there was so much more plaguing it than just that, so I don't think people who disliked Super back then would have been more welcome to it with a different soundtrack, especially judging by some of the responses in this thread.

For anyone whose interested, I'm going to shill the video I made in my signature which shows how Sumitomo has evolved from his music in the beginning of Super to where we are now in the ToP, so anyone interested in Sumitomo, be sure to check it out.

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Zephyr » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:41 pm

Kikuchi's score stands out from the rest of these as actually being genre appropriate, and Super sounding right would have certainly been one of many necessary improvements.

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:56 am

fadeddreams5 wrote:I enjoy Super's Goku Black-ToP arc OST better than the Kikuchi soundtrack. In fact, I never liked that OST. Yamamoto would have probably done better than what we got though. Dude was a thief, but a thief with good taste. That said, it would't impact my opinion over the series.
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:Kai had the worst soundtrack of any Dragon Ball series ever. It was so plain and boring. Not melodic at all. Its 1930s sounding horns were awful too.
Are you also referring to the Saiyan-Namek OST with Yamamoto? Because the Kai soundtrack, at least to me, was only dreadful when they replaced it in the Android saga and Final Chapters.
yep

Super is the only version of canon Dragon Ball which has had a great soundtrack for its Japanese version. In particular the tournament of power arc has had great scores and themes (all though not consistently)

However, the Bruce Falconer soundtrack was CLASSIC DBZ and was a reason for why so many look back on Eenglish DBZ with such fondess.

People don't realize how important music is. Music is everything. Sets the tone/atmosphere/adds that emph

Just rewatch this scene remixed with the Bruce Falconer soundtrack. It's like you're watching exactly classic DBZ. Of course that scene was already epic when it first aired, but the Falconer music just kicks it up to a whole other level

https://youtu.be/kSrDL4uA3V4

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:53 am

Norihito Sumitomo is the ONLY japanese musical composer that i like. In fact, i like almost every single soundtrack of him! All the other japanese musical scores sucked. Both Z and Kai. The only version of Kai that i do like is the Buu saga. And who’s the composer of that one? Jep right. You’ve guessed it. Our godly Norihito Sumitomo!

The Bruce Faulconer Score is my absolute favorite dragon ball score of all time. It is the absolute number 1! And i will stand behind that until the end! That said, Norihito Sumitomo is a close second. And he deserves my respect! It’s well earned.

1. Bruce Faulconer
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Hawk9211 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:49 am

Music is not to going to change its flaws and therefore people's opinion on this will remain same.At the most,they will change to the music was good/bad but the show was bad.
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by ulisa » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:25 pm

As someone who in general is not fond of Super (though it does have some good moments) I really don’t think a change of music would have made a lick of difference. My problems with Super boil down to the writing and characterization. While music enhances a scene, if what’s already present isn’t enjoyable (for me personally) the music won’t help it.
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Gligarman » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:50 pm

Is Shunsuke Kikuchi still doing music? If so it would have been awesome to hear a new score from him. If not just for consistency's sake, it just would have been awesome to have that 70's Kung-Fu style music again.

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:37 pm

Not to say that music isn't important, since it certainly is, but a different score wouldn't magically fix the writing and it wouldn't make my favorite characters relevant either. It would still be about a stagnant, regressed Goku and Vegeta beating up mostly wasted characters with usually average at best fight choreography, learning nothing, advancing nothing, and being a part of the Dragon Ball franchise with no real reason to exist except for merchandising.
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:47 pm

Why do people talk as if it's general consensus that Super was a bad show?

This is getting a little out of hand imo.

Sure, Super had flaws. Like everything else. DBZ also had flaws. Everything is flawed. Why only focus on the flaws?

Super also had a lots more positives. Super legit had many great moments. In fact it you look at polls and public opinion, the actual general consensus seems to be that Super was a very well liked, great show..

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:51 pm

My ability to enjoy Dragon Ball Super would skyrocket if Kikuchi Shunsuke's music had be reused. Kikuchi's music brings a life, energy and unique element that Sumitomo lacks in his compositions. For a series that is so heavily tied to the past in how it re-uses old voice actors and the structure of previous Dragon Ball series it's rather odd that Kikuchi's music was not reused. Dragon Ball is in this perpetual state of not being able to escape the past, yet not fully or lovingly embracing the past.
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by SuperCyan2 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:57 pm

Hawk9211 wrote:Music is not to going to change its flaws and therefore people's opinion on this will remain same.At the most,they will change to the music was good/bad but the show was bad.
I mean, I listen to Kikuchi BGMs from shows I've never seen before and still enjoyed their scores. Looking in that way, I'd probably skip watching Super and stick waiting for the release of a CD OST. Well, who knows if I'd watch it or not just for the sake of Kikuchi's music and its placements.

The Faulconer Productions score for DBZ didn't fit in my opinion but I like their music quite a lot. The problem is that the music in the series was constantly playing without a breath of air and the placement was horrendous without making much sense most of the time.
Gligarman wrote:Is Shunsuke Kikuchi still doing music? If so it would have been awesome to hear a new score from him. If not just for consistency's sake, it just would have been awesome to have that 70's Kung-Fu style music again.
It's said that Kikuchi retired but I doubt that...

In 2004, Kill Bill Vol. 2 had a track composed by Kikuchi. It's this one - Urami Bushi. The first volume of Kill Bill also featured a tune by Kikuchi but it wasn't new, it was from Karate Bull Fighter (the opening theme song).
JulieYBM wrote:My ability to enjoy Dragon Ball Super would skyrocket if Kikuchi Shunsuke's music had be reused. Kikuchi's music brings a life, energy and unique element that Sumitomo lacks in his compositions. For a series that is so heavily tied to the past in how it re-uses old voice actors and the structure of previous Dragon Ball series it's rather odd that Kikuchi's music was not reused. Dragon Ball is in this perpetual state of not being able to escape the past, yet not fully or lovingly embracing the past.
True. The Kikuchi BGM that was recreated for Super was something I really enjoyed it but by the Future Trunks arc they stopped using. :(
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by oozaru goku » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:43 pm

Nothing will change lol I don't have problems with super music anyway. What I actually hate is the way they made the characters doing with the serious events like ToP and the real evil stupid boss like zeno. I also hate the way they treated jiren or other universes like villains despite they're just victims as goku and friends, forced to fight for their universe survival(some of them still acted like playing too though, and I hate that either)

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Hyena_Yamcha » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:40 am

Bruce Faulconer's score is overrated.

There's no moment of silence at all and the music just doesn't fit dragon ball.

His score is bad compared to Kikuchi or Yamamto or even Sumitomo.

I only liked his music in The Legacy of Goku series.
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:54 am

I regret missing the boat with Yamamoto. Everybody raves about his score, but by the time I got back into the series the scandal had happened and all the releases of Kai with his score had seemingly been buried. I've listed to individual songs on Youtube, but they just don't do it for me without the context.

Regardless, I like Kikuchi, but I don't think Super would have benefited from his score. If you're working with new material, better to get something new in than wallow in the old. Besides, Sumitomo has found his feet lately, and the score from Future Trunks arc has been decent to top-notch. I'm fine with it.

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Ripper 30 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:51 pm

maybe, if the Kikuchi score was placed well but that doesn't excuse it from bad writing.
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by IHaveNoUserName » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:53 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:maybe, if the Kikuchi score was placed well but that doesn't excuse it from bad writing.
If dragon ball super was placed with kikuchi it would either be the atrocious replacement score or handled okay
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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Cipher » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:10 pm

I'd probably be a lot more willing to overlook its frustrating points if its overall presentation were improved, and a Kikuchi score would certainly be part of that. Granted, this is only in a hypothetical scenario in which he were composing new work for the series.

Everyone commenting on how it's "dated"—that's the point. It's reminiscent of the media influences Dragon Ball draws, and always drew from, and captures its ability to play with them. The series does well to remind the viewer that this is all just a high-stakes kung-fu flick. It moves away from reinforcing that at its own risk, lest it just become a sci-fi show about strong aliens punching each other.

At its best, I don't dislike the Sumitomo score, but I'd love to have seen this series with Kikuchi.

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by SirTorra » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:39 pm

Would have preferred Faulconer but i guess I'll take the next best thing, kikuchi.

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Re: For those who dislike Super, would've been better with Kikuchi or Yamamoto score?

Post by Logania » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:29 pm

I'm loving Sumitomo's music from Future Trunks Arc onward, even having some of my favorite tracks in the franchise (Aim for the Top, The Wall Before One's Eyes, The Power to Resist) so I'm fine with him.

What We DO need is some Tokunaga.
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