Vegeta will receive the Kid Boo treatment again... very original

[Vegeta_Sama]

It looks like having real character development, have an apprentice and wanting to revive him, match against a dude who is stronger than a GoD and acknowledge to be a warrior from him, gaining an actual new transfromation that surpasses Super Saiyan Blue, defeating a literal God of Destruction, surviving the Final Explosion (a technique that killed him in Z), being the second person with most elimination in the Tournament of Power and lasting to the last 5 survivors is not enough to some Vegeta fans, geez.

It's more than I could have hoped for, and I'm thankful that my favourite character got his time to shine, but it's obvious that now he has no place in the tournament anymore, his role has been fulfilled. It's fitting for him to go down fighting , and I couldn't have asked for more. Seriously, Vegeta is at his highest importante peak right now, and I can't see how anyone can be upset with his treatment

I have answered this type of comment several times, but I will respond again.

I never said I was dissatisfied with Vegeta's performance at ToP, the only issue here is about his '' farewell ''.

If TOEI did not want to eliminate it on EP 126, it's because it still would have some use.
But why does his "farewell" need to be summed up to be defeated by Jiren in base form without being able to do anything?
What he should do is at least be able to transform himself and get Jiren some work or do something before being eliminated.

He's gonna go out fighting like a badass even though he's completely outclassed. There's obviously no way he'll win against Jiren, so him not giving up and fighting until the end is pretty fitting for me

[TBMx]

Is that serious? Is Vegeta's '' cool moment '' going to be beaten by Jiren and continue to stand up just because of his pride? Will not he even be able to use his transformation in his last fight? Is not he going to be able to give Jiren any work in his last effort?

Will not he be able to do anything?

So why did he stay in the arena?

For real, I'm not sure what the point of the episode is. If they're going down this road, have base Vegeta get beat up for 1 minute of screentime, then think of bulma for 15 seconds, then go another minute of screentime then finally get ringed out.

That's two minutes 15 seconds.

Lets add padding. That's four minutes. Five at most. An episode is 20 minutes. Toshio described this as a "Cool Vegeta episode". So I'm confused. Is he adding it a TON of filler? Or stretching it out to absurdity with staring contests? Or base Vegeta's actually getting pounded on for ten plus solid minutes? Jiren can't eliminate a base saiyan for that long? Really?

And the title spoils Vegeta's fate. So does Toshio expect the audience to watch base Vegeta getting has ass kicked for over ten minutes of screentime when we already know he's being eliminated? Why would anybody want to watch that ever? There has to be a lot more to this episode than what's being advertised.

[GamerSkull]

Vegeta got some great moments in an arc that he wasn't all that prominent in until the recent episodes.

He got to have his time to shine (as repetitive as that was).

Yeah, he'll be thrown back into his jobber role in the next episode... but at least he got to beat Toppo.

[TBMx]

A couple of questions that have nothing to do with "Vegeta fans are never satisfied", but more to do with the episode's logic and structure.

So if Goku doesn't learn anything new about UI from Vegeta vs Jiren, he instead just masters it the next episode out of thin air?

If Vegeta doesn't get UI omen or go back into his Bluerer SSB, then powered up Jiren fights base Vegeta for most of an episode? The only way Vegeta is not eliminated would be if Jiren toyed with him to a huge degree. Why would Jiren toy with him to such a degree with three minutes and counting left only to eliminate him later anyway? For what purpose? Because lets not forget, that Super Saiyan Goku could not make a suppressed Jiren move at all. Is base Vegeta stronger than Super Saiyan Goku of back then?

Ultimately let me get this straight.

- This is supposed to be a "Cool Vegeta episode".
- The episode title effectively tells us Vegeta is falling out.
- We're expected to watch base Vegeta getting his head caved in for the running time when we already know - Jiren's just toying with him and that Vegeta's going to be eliminated, and that the Bulma vision is coming? -
Because that was spoiled too.
- This is a direct reprisal of what Vegeta already did against kid buu.


Therefore the only reason to watch is that there might be something else to it. Something that wasn't outright spoiled by the official preview.

Therefore it would be disappointing if there was nothing else to it. That's all the OP is saying. That Vegeta's elimination episode may turn out to be one of the most forgettable episodes in Super.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

A couple of questions that have nothing to do with "Vegeta fans are never satisfied", but more to do with the episode's logic and structure.

So if Goku doesn't learn anything new about UI from Vegeta vs Jiren, he instead just masters it the next episode out of thin air?

If Vegeta doesn't get UI omen or go back into his Bluerer SSB, then powered up Jiren fights base Vegeta for most of an episode? The only way Vegeta is not eliminated would be if Jiren toyed with him to a huge degree. Why would Jiren toy with him to such a degree with three minutes and counting left only to eliminate him later anyway? For what purpose? Because lets not forget, that Super Saiyan Goku could not make a suppressed Jiren move at all. Is base Vegeta stronger than Super Saiyan Goku of back then?

Ultimately let me get this straight.

- This is supposed to be a "Cool Vegeta episode".
- The episode title effectively tells us Vegeta is falling out.
- We're expected to watch base Vegeta getting his head caved in for the running time when we already know - Jiren's just toying with him and that Vegeta's going to be eliminated, and that the Bulma vision is coming? -
Because that was spoiled too.
- This is a direct reprisal of what Vegeta already did against kid buu.


Therefore the only reason to watch is that there might be something else to it. Something that wasn't outright spoiled by the official preview.

Therefore it would be disappointing if there was nothing else to it. That's all the OP is saying. That Vegeta's elimination episode may turn out to be one of the most forgettable episodes in Super.

This is actually a really good, well articulated post worth responding to. You are asking legitimate questions. You dont come across as complaining. Respect.

Based on spoilers, Vegeta going in and out of consciousness until he hears Bulma's voice, and then that driving Vegeta to continue on fighting, is a great character moment (and could be what Toshio talked about). That honestly sounds pretty awesome

I really enjoyed Vegeta vs Kid Buu.

There's no logically way Vegeta could've beaten Buu, so to have Vegeta be able to take all that punishment and keep getting back up was a touching moment of Vegeta's heart and never give up attitude.

It showed Vegeta in the best light possible.

And then when Vegeta finally admitted that Goku was #1, and came to finally accept that, that was some of the greatest charcater growth I've ever seen in anime

It's a shame how Super ruined Vegeta's character growth and arc from the end of Z.

I really want episode 128 to be the modern day version of that

There's no logical way for Vegeta (even in full power and full stamina SSB2) to ever beat Jiren, so the fact they are letting Vegeta go out like this, is the best treatment they could've given Vegeta

If I were a writer I never would've even given Vegeta all these moments (just because fan complaints)

It will be a touching moment of Vegeta"s heart and resolve again

I'm also hoping that Vegeta gives Goku some kind of final last speech that pushes Goku on toward Jiren, like how Vegeta's final speech on Namek pushed Goku on against Frieza

If Vegeta contributes to Goku unlocking Perfect UI then that's another huge win for Vegeta. Goku IS the main charcater. It's about Goku.

Based on spoilers, it implies something along the lines of, "as Goku watches Vegeta's fight intently, feelings start to entrench him"....that sound freaking epic....so there will be a purpose to Vegeta's last stand elinination against Jiren

Maybe Goku sees how Vegeta keeps getting back up no matter what, and it causes Goku to ask himself what he's truly fighting for, and then Goku has some kind of break through or realization. That would be freaking awesome.

[Kaiosama]

[/quote]It’s clear that they have more plans for Vegeta going all out in base form. It seems this next episode is going to trigger you all when it airs, because I’m sure Vegeta is going to get something similar to UI.[/quote]

Repeat after me... Vegeta is not getting UI or anything even remotely similar to it.

The spoilers confirm by the end of the episode that Goku and Jiren are the only ones remaining in the arena. The title of the next two episodes confirm it.

Vegeta already got his transformation that put him on par or maybe a little bit above KKX20 Goku. It was a placeholder transformation until Goku was able to achieve and master UI for the final time. Why should Vegeta get two new transformations this arc anyways? Maybe they give it to him in the Manga, but he's definitely not getting it in the anime.

[wolflonnie]

For every beating Vegeta got in DBS, he got some form of shining as well. He even managed to defeated a freaking GoD apprentice by himself, this NEVER happened before!
Plus, in all fairness, it's not about how many foes one character defeats, it's about character development, and Vegeta is a pinnacle of this, in the Dragonball lore.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

I really hope Super comes full circle with Vegeta's character

Where in Vegeta's elimination episode next week, Vegeta finally admits Goku is superior, and that Goku is the only one who can beat Jiren.

It would be incredibly awesome if with Vegeta's last breath before being ringed out, Vegeta goes:

"Kakarot, I now realise you are the only one who can beat Jiren. I saw when you went UI. AWAKEN UI damnit.. BEAT JIREN. Dont let our familes get erased. Fight for everything you love. HONOR 17's death. Look at his sister in the stands. Dont let her down. Dont let my bulma down. Dont let your son down. Look at Gohan. FIGHT Kakarot. Fight damn you. You MUST DEFEAT Jiren. You are the last hope."

Then boom, Jiren interupts and Vegeta finally goes down and gets ringed out by Jiren. .Goku screams "Vegeta!!!!"

What if that ^ (Vegeta's last speech) is what triggers these feelings in Goku (that the spoilers talked about) and thats what leads to Goku coming to some kind of realization/breakthrough

What if it drives Goku to really go after Jiren now with a purpose

It completely revitalizes Goku

And what if despite this, Jiren pushes back and Goku still is no match

Goku is starting to lose it "no, this cant be. How can this be. It cant end like this. I cant let anyone down. Its not going to end like this...no..no...no...as each time Goku repeats this (refusing to let this become the fate of U7 and his loved ones) Goku starts exploding with energy and anger with each no as hes crying thinking about his loved ones being erased.

As all these emotions start to take over Goku, Goku's power starts rising, his eyes start flashing silver....

And then there it is...Goku explodes into the UI perfect transformation - and its even more epic then when Goku first went SSJ on Namek.

The music is epic. Goku's transformation changes the environment more then Toppo did in episode 125. The gods are scared out of their minds as they fear having to come to gripes with the fact that Goku has far surpassed them now.

UI perfect Goku has risen. The smoke clears and we see UI perfect Goku in all his glory. UI perfect Goku starts tooling Jiren. For the first time ever we see the unshakeable confidence of Jiren start to break. UI perfect Goku brings Jiren down to his knees in humbling fashion and for the first time ever we see Jiren start to lose it....and Jiren explodes in permanent lava fire aura....the battle for the ages will commense

[Mercenary]

I really hope Super comes full circle with Vegeta's character

Where in Vegeta's elimination episode next week, Vegeta finally admits Goku is superior, and that Goku is the only one who can beat Jiren.

It would be incredibly awesome if with Vegeta's last breath before being ringed out, Vegeta goes:

"Kakarot, I now realise you are the only one who can beat Jiren. I saw when you went UI. AWAKEN UI damnit.. BEAT JIREN. Dont let our familes get erased. Fight for everything you love. HONOR 17's death. Look at his sister in the stands. Dont let her down. Dont let my bulma down. Dont let your son down. Look at Gohan. FIGHT Kakarot. Fight damn you. You MUST DEFEAT Jiren. You are the last hope."

Then boom, Jiren interupts and Vegeta finally goes down and gets ringed out by Jiren. .Goku screams "Vegeta!!!!"

What if that ^ (Vegeta's last speech) is what triggers these feelings in Goku (that the spoilers talked about) and thats what leads to Goku coming to some kind of realization/breakthrough

What if it drives Goku to really go after Jiren now with a purpose

It completely revitalizes Goku

And what if despite this, Jiren pushes back and Goku still is no match

Goku is starting to lose it "no, this cant be. How can this be. It cant end like this. I cant let anyone down. Its not going to end like this...no..no...no...as each time Goku repeats this (refusing to let this become the fate of U7 and his loved ones) Goku starts exploding with energy and anger with each no as hes crying thinking about his loved ones being erased.

As all these emotions start to take over Goku, Goku's power starts rising, his eyes start flashing silver....

And then there it is...Goku explodes into the UI perfect transformation - and its even more epic then when Goku first went SSJ on Namek.

The music is epic. Goku's transformation changes the environment more then Toppo did in episode 125. The gods are scared out of their minds as they fear having to come to gripes with the fact that Goku has far surpassed them now.

UI perfect Goku has risen. The smoke clears and we see UI perfect Goku in all his glory. UI perfect Goku starts tooling Jiren. For the first time ever we see the unshakeable confidence of Jiren start to break. UI perfect Goku brings Jiren down to his knees in humbling fashion and for the first time ever we see Jiren start to lose it....and Jiren explodes in permanent lava fire aura....the battle for the ages will commense

No, it would be totally OOC for Vegeta. You are just Goku fanboy and this is your wishful thinking to humiliate Vegeta and make Goku look good.


Thank God you are no responsible for writing this show.

[MozillaVulpix]

Is that serious? Is Vegeta's '' cool moment '' going to be beaten by Jiren and continue to stand up just because of his pride? Will not he even be able to use his transformation in his last fight? Is not he going to be able to give Jiren any work in his last effort?

Will not he be able to do anything?

So why did he stay in the arena?

For real, I'm not sure what the point of the episode is. If they're going down this road, have base Vegeta get beat up for 1 minute of screentime, then think of bulma for 15 seconds, then go another minute of screentime then finally get ringed out.

That's two minutes 15 seconds.

Lets add padding. That's four minutes. Five at most. An episode is 20 minutes. Toshio described this as a "Cool Vegeta episode". So I'm confused. Is he adding it a TON of filler? Or stretching it out to absurdity with staring contests? Or base Vegeta's actually getting pounded on for ten plus solid minutes? Jiren can't eliminate a base saiyan for that long? Really?

And the title spoils Vegeta's fate. So does Toshio expect the audience to watch base Vegeta getting has ass kicked for over ten minutes of screentime when we already know he's being eliminated? Why would anybody want to watch that ever? There has to be a lot more to this episode than what's being advertised.

You guys do know the tweet was "I wrote a cool Vegeta", not "I wrote a cool Vegeta episode"? He was probably only talking about one character moment. He might not have even been referring to the climax. Heck, before he was talking about how he enjoyed writing a scene about one of the U2 guys, and it was just a short gag of him failing to use the Potara. I feel like the fanbase blew that tweet out of proportion.

[Lord Beerus]

Considering how much Vegeta has busted his ass and went out of his way to get stronger throughout the show, couple with his immeasurable determination to not fall behind, something he reinforced in literally the second episode of the show, I feel Vegeta brute forcing his way to a form and defeating essentially a Hakaishin feels very much thematically appropriate for his character. Especially in an event like the Tournament Of Power. He's gotten quite a lot of good treatment in the tournament, so I don't really feel that he has received or will receive the "Kid Boo treatment". He's made a huge difference in the Tournament Of Power, is now level pegging with SSJB Kaioken, and it taking on the strongest mortal in the history of Dragon Ball with nothing but willpower. I'd say this is best treated Vegeta has ever been in an isolated story arc in Dragon Ball.

[Saturnine]

Considering how much Vegeta has busted his ass and went out of his way to get stronger throughout the show, couple with his immeasurable determination to not fall behind, something he reinforced in literally the second episode of the show, I feel Vegeta brute forcing his way to a form and defeating essentially a Hakaishin feels very much thematically appropriate for his character. Especially in an event like the Tournament Of Power. He's gotten quite a lot of good treatment in the tournament, so I don't really feel that he has received or will receive the "Kid Boo treatment". He's made a huge difference in the Tournament Of Power, is now level pegging with SSJB Kaioken, and it taking on the strongest mortal in the history of Dragon Ball with nothing but willpower. I'd say this is best treated Vegeta has ever been in an isolated story arc in Dragon Ball.

Totally. With the arguable exception of the manga's rendition of the Zamasu arc. But yeah, Vegeta never falls behind Goku more than one step at a time these days, he did have to get an equalizer with KKx20. Not to mention he still can't (and it's uncertain whether he will be able to once he masters it) go into UI at will, which means in a normal fight Vegeta would have a big advantage over him as long as UI wasn't a factor.

[Vegeta_Sama]

Vegeta got some great moments in an arc that he wasn't all that prominent in until the recent episodes.

He got to have his time to shine (as repetitive as that was).

Yeah, he'll be thrown back into his jobber role in the next episode... but at least he got to beat Toppo.

That's not what "jobber" means dude. Vegeta jobbed to Hit to show us how powerful he was. We already know how strong Jiren is. Stop throwing that word around everywhere

[Nero<>Akira]

Seriously... What do you want? lol I'm sure you don't even know the answer to that question like many other.

Vegeta is arguably on Goku's level at full power (still). He ascended to another level of Super Saiyan God (very appropriate when you contrast Goku's achievements.. and a NEW LEVEL OF GOD!). He became so strong that he could outdo Destruction Energy and beat a low tier GoD. He didn't even have to use his life energy against Toppo when he used his ki explosion. He's had some really good-great showings in the entire tournament. His character has never been better. He's gotten a great amount of development and more characterization and he's bound to get more the next episode (COME ON! THIS IS GOOD!). If you're having issues with him getting his ass beat next episode then you need to grow up. It's fucking Jiren. There's no reason none of these guys shouldn't be beaten down like never before. Are we gonna pretend Jiren didn't beat the hell out of Goku when they first fought and even embarrassed him when he said he wasn't going to be needed? Come on. It's not any worse when Vegeta gets beat. The only real difference are the no life trolls that make memes to get under fans skin and nerves. It's just vapid nonsense. Many fighters have lost and gotten beat down.

Vegeta isn't buying time for Goku to get energy back. It's only the two of them and Goku is getting his ass kicked and only Vegeta is standing. Vegeta is trying to go out like a man. Their entire reality is on the line. He'd rather be taken down fighting than give up when this is all at stake. In his mind, he must win.

[majinwarman]

Considering how much Vegeta has busted his ass and went out of his way to get stronger throughout the show, couple with his immeasurable determination to not fall behind, something he reinforced in literally the second episode of the show, I feel Vegeta brute forcing his way to a form and defeating essentially a Hakaishin feels very much thematically appropriate for his character. Especially in an event like the Tournament Of Power. He's gotten quite a lot of good treatment in the tournament, so I don't really feel that he has received or will receive the "Kid Boo treatment". He's made a huge difference in the Tournament Of Power, is now level pegging with SSJB Kaioken, and it taking on the strongest mortal in the history of Dragon Ball with nothing but willpower. I'd say this is best treated Vegeta has ever been in an isolated story arc in Dragon Ball.

I totally agree with you. Vegeta has been treated so well this arc and he got a new transformation, beat a God of Destruction, and he was proven he can be neck and neck with Goku. Vegeta is going to lose against the strongest fighter in the tournament and people are mad about it. I understand that people want Vegeta to win but Vegeta has served his purpose in this arc. Vegeta should be praised and fans should be happy about what he has done in this arc.

[GamerSkull]

Vegeta got some great moments in an arc that he wasn't all that prominent in until the recent episodes.

He got to have his time to shine (as repetitive as that was).

Yeah, he'll be thrown back into his jobber role in the next episode... but at least he got to beat Toppo.

That's not what "jobber" means dude. Vegeta jobbed to Hit to show us how powerful he was. We already know how strong Jiren is. Stop throwing that word around everywhere

Well, I didn’t mean any disrespect but I do apologize.

I didn’t specifically mean he was jobbing to Jiren but that his role is over and that he’ll be used to let Goku observe Jiren’s moves a bit more carefully and simultaneously rest up.

Yeah, I know what a jobber is. However, I just worded my previous post wrong and for that I apologize.

[Benedetto12]

Vegeta will choose to defend Goku while he recovers, because Goku and Frieza are unable to fight, he will be unable to transform and will fight in his base form, each time Jiren is about to beat him, Vegeta manages to stand again and keep fighting, until he is heavily injured, at that time he will remember his family Bulma, Trunks and Bulla, also he will think in everyone who became his friends after his time in earth, he will rise again this time in his new SSJB form, and will attack Jiren, managing to injure him much more than 17 did with his surprise attack.

Jiren becomes mad and charges at him, just before this happens, he looks at Goku and Frieza who are standing again ready to fight. "Kakarot, Frieza you better win this" and he gets knocked out by Jiren.

[Vegeta_Sama]

Vegeta got some great moments in an arc that he wasn't all that prominent in until the recent episodes.

He got to have his time to shine (as repetitive as that was).

Yeah, he'll be thrown back into his jobber role in the next episode... but at least he got to beat Toppo.

That's not what "jobber" means dude. Vegeta jobbed to Hit to show us how powerful he was. We already know how strong Jiren is. Stop throwing that word around everywhere

Well, I didn’t mean any disrespect but I do apologize.

I didn’t specifically mean he was jobbing to Jiren but that his role is over and that he’ll be used to let Goku observe Jiren’s moves a bit more carefully and simultaneously rest up.

Yeah, I know what a jobber is. However, I just worded my previous post wrong and for that I apologize.

No problems man, honestly I should be the one apologizing: I realize I sounded a bit rude in my previous comment, but I really didn't mean it like that

[TBMx]

If Vegeta doesn't get Ultra Instinct despite undergoing the same training, I think we can all agree that UI for Goku has nothing to do with Whis' training and is a complete asspull? Especially mastering it when there's no indication that Vegeta will ever get the UI Omen even. And considering millions of years old gods haven't mastered it.

[sintzu]

If Vegeta doesn't get Ultra Instinct despite undergoing the same training, I think we can all agree that UI for Goku has nothing to do with Whis' training and is a complete asspull ?

I think it's unfair to say he won't get it because there's only a handful of episodes left which is not realistically possible for him to do, despite me wanting him to. When the anime comes back and if an arc or 2 go by and he doesn't get it then we'll know that's the case which I don't think is.