Has Yamamuro Saved Ultra Instinct?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Nero<>Akira
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Re: Has Yamamuro Saved Ultra Instinct?

Post by Nero<>Akira » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:33 am

HeroR wrote:
Nero<>Akira wrote:
Well.. it was a sparring match lol Both of them just wanna fight. It only gets serious and more epic after they get in that cavern and i think they did a great job in that once Beerus actually blasted Goku back. It was like oh, then he added another blast on top of the main one and just the execution is like, "oh shit." The only "justice" it did to it in the anime was honestly having universe busting power. Beerus states his power didn't really drop too much. He can sense and I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. The only time goku did better in his super saiyan form was after he got serious and pissed. The moment they get in the stratosphere though, that wasn't enough. He can't land one hit on beerus. So, he wasn't stronger at all except in the arc retelling.

F arc wasn't better and until I hear a reason that doesn't involve Goku & Vegeta's scenes together and the start of the arc, it's not gonna change my outlook on it.
Having a fight that is the build up of the entire movie and the end the fight when it was started to get good is lackluster and the Super retelling did it better since you can see for Beerus it was a sparring match. For Goku, it was a life and death struggled with him putting everything he had and I loved the parallels.

It wasn't a rage boost and Goku in base scored a hit that winded Beerus and pissed him off. Which is more than Super Saiyan God ever did. He also landed several hits on Beerus in space, including Kamehameha.

You want a list for Resurrection 'F', happy to:

Tagoma was actually used instead of being a false extra and what Freeza did to him was both chilling and awesome. It also gave the Freeza Force one more powerful person instead of the showcase stomp they got in the movie. Especially since he personally took out Gohan who was the strongest of the group and put everyone on noticed.

Goten and Trunks sensing what was going on cleared a plot hole in the movie.

We're actually told Buu is asleep, which was missing in the movie. Which is strange since Buu sleeping is in the script and Toyo's version of Resurrection 'F', yet the movie just omitted the information despite Krillin mentioning Buu.

Freeza acknowledged the Z-Figthers more and targeted Krillin just to pissed Goku off. Krillin also had an understandable cast of PTSD over the person who blew him up from the inside. Which relates to 18 who wanted to fight with Krillin because she was worried about him, while the movie gave her the same air indifferent.

Gohan getting holes through him because he show of mercy toward Tagoma-Ginyu trigged Freeza. Freeza went ham on Gohan and tortured him while all his friends and family could only watched in horror. This shows that Freeza far from stable, it highlights Freeza's ruthless far more than the movie, and most importantly for me, it's punished Gohan for slacking off and not learning his lesson from the Buu Saga. And while Piccolo's sacrifice was rushed and could of have more emotional weight, it all highlights Gohan's failure and him admitting that he screwed up. In the movie, Gohan being weaker was an utterly moot plot point and didn't need to be there since he stomped everyone outside of Freeza, who couldn't beat at his best regardless. So why was Gohan being weak even there? This is something the retelling fixed by having Gohan struggled before Freeza came and really hammered home how much Gohan slacking off effective everything. He then slightly redeemed himself by summoning Goku and Vegeta to Earth with the last of his energy.

Freeza being an absolute dirty fighter who isn't interesting in winning 'fairly'. He tried to poke Goku in the eyes and directly target his friends in the middle of their battle. This far more foreshadowing of how Freeza planned to beat Goku with Sorbet than the movie, where Freeza more or less fought Goku fairly. Which really isn't within Freeza's nature. There is also how he trained, from the little we have seen. Namely, he trained not to beat Goku, he trained to tortured him to death using Tagamo as his test dummy. This is disturbing and so Freeza all at the same time.

All of Episode 27 is superior to the movie's ending which felt rushed after Freeza died. Vegeta's beatdown of Freeza was brutal, we actually see the people Freeza is killing in their final moments including baby Pan and Videl, and Gohan and Krillin actually react to their families dying. For some reason in the movie, only Bulma cried over her family's death, while Gohan and Krillin didn't even mention theirs and were more sad for Bulma. Gohan running to make sure Videl and Pan were okay and hugging them was the icing on the cake.

And these are the reasons why the retelling is superior to the movie story-wise and I never mentioned any of Goku and Vegeta's training.
Great points. some of those though had execution and presentation that weren't too great.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

HeroR
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Re: Has Yamamuro Saved Ultra Instinct?

Post by HeroR » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:37 am

Nero<>Akira wrote:
Great points. some of those though had execution and presentation that weren't too great.
I don't completely agree outside of Piccolo's death, but at least you are willing to acknowledged my points.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Mazingerdestro
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Re: Has Yamamuro Saved Ultra Instinct?

Post by Mazingerdestro » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:29 am

Yomi wrote:In a Battle of Gods interview, it was stated that Yamamuro had presented a design for Super Saiyan God that was well built, had longer wilder hair, and a cape. It was scrapped when Toriyama presented his own design.

In my opinion, it seems as if this has happened again in this arc, Toriyama's design is a white version of Super Saiyan God, and Yamamuro's version is well built, has wilder hair and another change of wardrobe.

If it really was Yamamuro who.created the Omen form, my opinion of him would change drastically towards the positive.
I agree with every point.
Yammy is a blessing for this production.
Supporting every part while working on everything db related.
MVP

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