Your thoughts on the Tournament of Power compared to the Dragon World's other arcs

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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supersaiyanZero
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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by supersaiyanZero » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:27 pm

I sincerely hope that anybody thinks that this arc was anything but garbage never gets a job in the entertainment industry, because it will just further the decline of shows like this.

Just my "opinion" tho.

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Son Vegito
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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Son Vegito » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:30 pm

Dafuq?? No, the TOP is the best DBS arc by far. And this is coming from someone who thinks the Dragon Ball franchise would've been better left without Super.

Did Toei fail to deliver? Hell yes. This had the potential to become the best Dragon Ball arc ever, but in the end it didn't even equal the worst arc of DBZ. Still gets a solid 6.3/10 from me but should've at least been an 8.

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perucho1990
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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by perucho1990 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:48 pm

No, but this arc couldve been much better.

If we had someone like Kishimoto or Kubo doing the outline, we couldve gotten a masterpiece.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Chuquita » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:57 pm

Not the worst arc, but there were a lot of missed opportunities and it went on entirely too long. I'd rather it have been half as long and we'd gotten one more arc either before or after it.
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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Asura » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:46 pm

There were a lot of missed opportunities and writing blunders, but overall this is by far the best arc in Super IMO, and has created some of my favorite moments in the entire franchise, and will probably create even more as we get to the very end.

My biggest issue with Super was that it looked like shit. Even in the Future Trunks arc, a lot of it still looked like shit. I simply can not get invested in a show that has consistently poor art and animation. A good story means nothing if your show looks like garbage, at least to me. This is especially true coming off of Z which had some amazing artwork that fans loved so much. So when the ToP arc consistently gave us decent art and animation, and blew us away with some insane art and animation in some episodes, that helped a lot with me getting invested in to the show.

I love, love, love the idea of this multi-universe tournament where your universe gets erased when you lose. I love the 10 man team aspect that has allowed so many of our old, favorite characters to come back into the limelight. I love how the tournament stage came out looking exactly like I pictured it in my head when we first got some info about it. Was it executed spectacularly? No, but I think it's good enough considering the type of show Super is. It will never surpass Z, ever. It might have its moments that are among the best in the franchise that beat out Z (like Goku's sliding Kamehameha on to Kefla's face, I've probably watched that episode and that scene like 10 times already) but it will never consistently outperform Z, the writing is just too shitty.

People need to realize what kind of show Super is, and only when they lower their expectations to meet the show can you actually enjoy it. Yes, I know it's a vastly inferior product to DB and Z, and it has so many terrible moments throughout the whole series, but after 129 episodes I've learned to accept Super for what it is, a really mediocre show at its core that has some surprisingly amazing moments (most of them being in this arc, at least for me). This allows me to be surprised and excited when we do get something fantastic, and when we don't get something all that great? Well, that's just how Super is.

I'll say this though, I have probably never been as hyped about Dragon Ball as I am with this arc currently. Sure, a large part of that is because it's currently airing and you can't wait to see what happens next week, but there was, and still is, so much to get excited about in this tournament. Ultra Instinct Omen has possibly become my favorite transformation in the franchise. Goku vs Jiren's first battle will forever be iconic to the franchise. Android 17 will forever be a fan favorite character. There's so much to like about this arc even if it has a lot of missed opportunities.

I love it. Just don't give us some fucked up retarded ending like the Future Trunks ending where every universe and all the new characters are erased forever or some lame shit like that.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by MajinMan » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:53 pm

Not even close to the worst. Off the top of my head, there are like 8 arcs I would rank below it.

Super 17
Black Star Dragon Balls
Evil Dragons
Resurrection F
Battle of Gods
Universe 6
Future Trunks
Cell

I don’t think it’s the greatest arc by any means, but I do believe it’s better than the rest of Super and most of GT. The Baby arc is probably tied or a little under it.
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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Amir » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:31 pm

Hell no. Epic fights with great use of team work, tactics and strategies, great animation, cool characters moments and interactions, full of badassary, awesome tag teams, Ultra Instinct Android 17, Frieza literally at his best, even vetter than his Namek saga version and the music is fire.

Too many cool stuff to call it bad let alone the worst.
I like it even more than the Future Trunks arc because it's longer and hasn't fallen apart.

As flawed as it is, it's very entertaining.
Oh yeah I'm gonna say it right now, it's writing is not worse than the Buu saga and many parts in the Cell saga as well.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Bullza » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:53 pm

No it isn't. All Sagas in GT were vastly inferior and most if not all the Sagas in the original Dragon Ball were as well.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Analytical Delusion » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:04 pm

The Buu saga was worse IMO, particularly all of the stuff with Super Buu and Goten/Trunks/Gotenks, zero payoff in the end. I enjoyed the Gohan stuff on Kaioshin's planet, maybe it would've been better for Earth to be destroyed, and for them to watch Buu go on a rampage. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind Kid Trunks reprising the Gohan role from the Cell Arc. Goten is useless and boring to me.

In general, I don't like Dragon Ball before the 22nd TB/King Piccolo stuff either. Too much comedy, and the stakes are too low. But it's not all *bad* per se. In the manga, at least the search for the Dragon Balls through the 21st TB is a complete arc. I liked the training a lot. The Red Ribbon Army stuff just drags on though, particularly in the anime. The Dr. Slump and Blue stuff is lost on me and the Muscle Tower stuff is such a waste (we don't have any snow/ice fights outside of the movies, but the entire thing takes place indoors). The Tao Pai Pai and Karin's Tower stuff isn't terrible, but it's a bit too rushed. I wish it took place over a longer period than three days. Goku's final attack on their base was underwhelming too. I don't mind the part with Baba's fighters after, but again, the stakes felt low.

I think it's pretty good, I just wish they didn't say it was 48 minutes to begin with. The suspension of disbelief given all of these episodes that are one or two minutes long in-universe, with ton of dialogue, is a bit much for me.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by shadd21 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:25 pm

The ToP arc brought us the Trio de Dangers...I vote no

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Jackalope89 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:01 am

Nope. Two words;
Garlic Junior.

/thread.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:14 am

It's my favorite in Super, so no. Every single arc that has proceeded it has been far worse. If we're talking purely from a writing perspective, then yeah, it's pretty awful. But that's not the point.
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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by SirTorra » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:53 am

It isn't even the worst saga in Super. Black saga and RoF saga are worse. The ToP although lacking, ranks above BoG saga, Rof saga, U6 saga and the black saga. It's by far the best thing to come out of Super.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:54 am

The arc isn't totally finished yet, but whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The ToP is terribly inconsistent in terms of composition and underwhelming as hell a lot of the time, but no, it's not the worst ever for me. I'd say the worst ever would be the Black Star Dragon Ball arc (basically anything before Baby), the Super 17 arc (hell, that wasn't even an arc, and people think the arcs before ToP were short) and the RoF arc.

You can't deny there were epic epic moments in the ToP. And we still have more left.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by lancerman » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:40 am

It's easily the best arc of Super and it's probably the best overall arc since Freeza imo. So no. Not even close.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:32 am

I would say its easily the worst original arc from Super, however, I think Supers adaptations of RoF and BoG were worse than this.

I'm of course referring to the anime adaptation. The manga seems to be shaping up into something much better and if all goes well, it may even be the best arc of that version of Super.

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by mute_proxy » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:43 am

It's probably my favorite idea for an arc, but that's about it. What we got was bad. A whole year of random fights and very little (if any) story progression.

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Miracles
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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Miracles » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:22 am

Has anyone seen the Resurrection of Freeza saga?

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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Low Tone G » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:17 am

In my view, this arc is on par, or sometimes slightly
better than the Goku Black arc... It has power scaling issues, but they are trying to reconcile them with the already established lore, it's just really predictable, too predictable, one might say.

In my opinion, unpredictability is a very strong point, as long as it makes sense, of course..
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Re: Is theTOP the worst saga in the db universe?

Post by Nickolaidas » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:18 am

The way they handled GoD Toppo is what really bugged me, and everything seems wrong ever since. Frieza loses his cool and appears/disappears as if he's not part of the rest of the cast and lives in a pocket universe, the stamina issue has become WAY too ridiculous to be ignored and Jiren power ups actually seem to nerf him.

I was afraid this would happen because of how absurdly stronger he is compared to the main cast, but man ... man oh man.

Still, it was a good arc and gave many secondary characters a lot of good moments. If there's any way a show should end, that's it. With everyone from the cast contributing to the team's victory. And as someone said, ToP gave us the best Roshi, #17 and Frieza moments ever.

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