It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by precita » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:11 pm

While I understand if Toriyama didn't want them to be main heroes anymore, the fact that he literally did nothing with them for all of Super's arcs which spans 131 episodes is odd as hell. These are still the two main sons of Goku and Vegeta. The Buu saga set them up like they would continue being major characters, and the 2008 special heavily focused on them as well.

Watching Super directly after the Buu arc is going to feel jarring as hell in future rewatches. Kid Trunks got some nice focus when he met is adult counterpart, but that's it. Goten might as well not exist.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:28 pm

That's Toriyama's attitude to characters in a nutshell, he'll just throw them out when he doesn't know what to do with them anymore. You could already see it happen with Goten and Trunks toward the end of Buu, the idea of them staying relevant was completely dropped after they got absorbed by Buu, and the epilogue gave no indication they'd improved.

I think due to the way Super is written and how it doesn't alter the status quo, Goten and Trunks got hit particularly hard because their identity is to be the "kid" characters. Goten only exists because Gohan grew up, and now he's stuck in that role, even though he should be aging. Kid Trunks was lucky enough to get a bit of shine in the Future Trunks saga, but that's it.

Remember how they were the protagonists of the very first episode? The one where they go on an adventure to find a wedding present for Videl and battle a snake? That's so weird in context with the rest of the series.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:58 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I have yet to get that far in the manga, but weren't they originally played more for gag and comedic stuff rather actually being taken seriously? That's definitely how they come across in Super. I think it's honestly because Toriyama just doesn't know what to do with them, much like Tien and Piccolo

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by KingKaash » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:06 pm

This is what happens when you introduce God level characters. The weaker characters get left behind. It almost even happened to the likes of Gohan and Piccolo had the ToP not come around and they needed 10 fighters
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by PFM18 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:44 pm

KingKaash wrote:This is what happens when you introduce God level characters. The weaker characters get left behind. It almost even happened to the likes of Gohan and Piccolo had the ToP not come around and they needed 10 fighters
This is exactly what happens. Just by virtue of having unfathomably powerful characters the ones with no way of catching up are left behind. The only way they would get spotlight in super is if they snuck in the ToP roster.

Going with what has been shown thus far....Goku is at bare minimum hundreds of times stronger in his base foem than he was as a SSJ3 in the buu saga. For that reason Goten and trunks were reduced from a combat role to a comedic role

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Asura » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:54 pm

The saddest part is Goten & Trunks want to train and grow strong, but the show won’t let them. This is only further reinforced by how they act at the EoZ where they don’t give a shit at all about fighting or training.

It’s as if Super is saying that they wanted to, but no one ever gave them the attention they deserved so they gave up on fighting. Quite sad.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by CriticalThinker » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:07 am

Considering how they amounted to nothing in the Buu arc I'm not to surprised that they didn't do much here. Never watched GT but from what I've heard they didn't do much there either. It's pretty clear to me at least that Toriyama doesn't really care to use them thus why they haven't done much. And if I might be as so bold to do so I will guess that they probably won't do much in the next series either. I mean at least they were main characters in Dragon Ball fusions so that's something I guess.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:47 am

KingKaash wrote:This is what happens when you introduce God level characters. The weaker characters get left behind. It almost even happened to the likes of Gohan and Piccolo had the ToP not come around and they needed 10 fighters
It's more than just the power gap. The Tournament of Power brought back character way weaker than Goten and Trunks and made them relevant, either by powering them up to god level or emphasizing their other qualities. Krillin, Roshi, even 17 and 18 who were below Gotenks in the original series but wound up as MVPs. The problem is that those two characters specifically don't have anything going for them outside of childish comic relief. That's the role they're stuck in, and have been stuck in ever since Gotenks first appeared.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Asura » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:00 am

CriticalThinker wrote:I mean at least they were main characters in Dragon Ball fusions so that's something I guess.
I liked Fusions a lot because of that. Having Goten & Trunks be the main characters of a video game is pretty interesting and unheard of.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by CriticalThinker » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:24 am

Asura wrote:
CriticalThinker wrote:I mean at least they were main characters in Dragon Ball fusions so that's something I guess.
I liked Fusions a lot because of that. Having Goten & Trunks be the main characters of a video game is pretty interesting and unheard of.
Despite myself not caring much for those two it was interesting to have them be the main characters in the game. Same goes for having Pan and Kid Goku being the main characters as well. Hoping that Fusions sold well enough for a second one, as I do like seeing characters who are usually ignored get more time to shine.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by 8bitdee » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:26 am

How relevant do you want them to be? Looking back on it, Gotenks was one of Toriyama's most joke character ever. I don't think they were ever that relevant, just fodder used to extend the series with more chapters of crazy Buu arc concepts he was coming up at the time.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by The Patrolman » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:34 am

Thats kinda sad
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by sintzu » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:49 am

That's what happens when fusion is the only thing going for them as they both are nowhere near as interested as Gohan or F Trunks.
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:11 am

Err they got dropped half way through the Buu arc so it isn't jarring at all really.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Michsi » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:21 am

I keep saying that I sense a reluctance to show kids in violent situations, even as censored as it is in Super, so they have very little use for them. I guess they don't want to have them grow up and look their age because they're cuter like this and can serve as mascots, but on the other hand, aside from their antics, they had very little to offer as characters. The type of humor they bring can get aggravating very fast.

But as wasted story opportunities go, it's not the worst example by far for Super.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Grimlock » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:04 am

Nothing really surprising, but what bothers me is that they kept them as if they were children for 131 episodes, even though they are teenagers now.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Torturephile » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:51 am

They could have been potentially used for something interesting, as they even managed to be supporting characters in the Potafeu filler arc, but were always casted aside by the grown ups, even on that filler arc, and every time they were mentioned during conversations, they weren't considered worthy for battle.

I'm not mad, however, because I never cared for them at all, even while watching the Buu saga for the first time as a kid. All they amounted to was Gotenks, one of my least favorite characters in Z.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Xeogran » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:57 am

In-universe it's Goku's fault for teaching them fusion instead of how to actually fight.

They, as of now, are cowards who hide behind a single technique. We've seen what happened when Gotenks' timer ran off right before thy tried fighting Freeza in RoF anime adaptation.
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by obiwan23s » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:58 am

I think it works really well actually. Once it gets to EOZ, they both aren't fighting anymore and get forced into the tournament by their fathers. They were really only needed in Z as a stopgap between Vegeta dying and Gohan coming back from the Kaisoshin world anyway. Fusion was just a gimmick to make us believe that the combination of two children into one fighter would be strong enough to hold off the villain.
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Xeogran » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:58 am

obiwan23s wrote:I think it works really well actually. Once it gets to EOZ, they both aren't fighting anymore and get forced into the tournament by their fathers.
Which even more makes me wonder why people think Goten and Trunks could be main characters of a post EoZ show. They're not fitting for that role anymore, lol.

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