It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:09 pm

Ties into your topic and yet sort of doesn't: just about everyone here says the reason why Goten and Trunks doesn't age is because this a shonen series, and so you need young kids in the series, (why Bleach, Naruto Part II, and One Piece is the exception is beyond me) but if Goten's biggest contribution in the whole series was being killed by Black in an alternate timeline, and Trunks' contribution to the whole series was getting Future Trunks out of his funk by fighting him, then did you really need them to be a shonen series and appeal to kids? Gohan was in the thick of it since the first few episodes of Z so the excuse can be made he was needed for Z to be shonen. Goten and Trunks did jack in Super, so how could anyone tell me they were needed to stay aged down for Super to be accepted by kids and be a shonen? You could remove them from the show and Super would still be the exact same show.
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:41 pm

FoolsGil wrote:Ties into your topic and yet sort of doesn't: just about everyone here says the reason why Goten and Trunks doesn't age is because this a shonen series, and so you need young kids in the series, (why Bleach, Naruto Part II, and One Piece is the exception is beyond me) but if Goten's biggest contribution in the whole series was being killed by Black in an alternate timeline, and Trunks' contribution to the whole series was getting Future Trunks out of his funk by fighting him, then did you really need them to be a shonen series and appeal to kids? Gohan was in the thick of it since the first few episodes of Z so the excuse can be made he was needed for Z to be shonen. Goten and Trunks did jack in Super, so how could anyone tell me they were needed to stay aged down for Super to be accepted by kids and be a shonen? You could remove them from the show and Super would still be the exact same show.
Who is to say they weren't aged because of that?

More logical explanation is they knew they wouldn't have a part so never bothered designing them beyond what they were.

What's the point of aging them if they still don't play apart? Seems pointless.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:09 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:Ties into your topic and yet sort of doesn't: just about everyone here says the reason why Goten and Trunks doesn't age is because this a shonen series, and so you need young kids in the series, (why Bleach, Naruto Part II, and One Piece is the exception is beyond me) but if Goten's biggest contribution in the whole series was being killed by Black in an alternate timeline, and Trunks' contribution to the whole series was getting Future Trunks out of his funk by fighting him, then did you really need them to be a shonen series and appeal to kids? Gohan was in the thick of it since the first few episodes of Z so the excuse can be made he was needed for Z to be shonen. Goten and Trunks did jack in Super, so how could anyone tell me they were needed to stay aged down for Super to be accepted by kids and be a shonen? You could remove them from the show and Super would still be the exact same show.
Who is to say they weren't aged because of that?

More logical explanation is they knew they wouldn't have a part so never bothered designing them beyond what they were.

What's the point of aging them if they still don't play apart? Seems pointless.
You make a good point. That is just the argument I've been hearing when the timeline is ever brought up. Of course, consistency with the timeline is a good reason to age up the characters, even if they don't play a part.
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Basaku » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:18 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Who is to say they weren't aged because of that?

More logical explanation is they knew they wouldn't have a part so never bothered designing them beyond what they were.

What's the point of aging them if they still don't play apart? Seems pointless.
Consistency for one? I mean, we already know what Trunks looks like as a teen and he already had his teen design created over 25 years ago... What's the point of you defending/excusing this honestly?

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by KingKaash » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:22 am

TheOtherDude wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
KingKaash wrote:This is what happens when you introduce God level characters. The weaker characters get left behind. It almost even happened to the likes of Gohan and Piccolo had the ToP not come around and they needed 10 fighters
This is exactly what happens. Just by virtue of having unfathomably powerful characters the ones with no way of catching up are left behind. The only way they would get spotlight in super is if they snuck in the ToP roster.

Going with what has been shown thus far....Goku is at bare minimum hundreds of times stronger in his base foem than he was as a SSJ3 in the buu saga. For that reason Goten and trunks were reduced from a combat role to a comedic role
Gotten and Trunks are the offspring of Goku and Vegeta. They are thousands of times stronger than Goku and Vegeta ever were their age. It will not take nearly as long for them to reach the level their dads are at if they got serious with training.

There’s no evidence that after Super there’ll be a new series, but there’s a strong chance that they’re saving Goten and Trunks to be with Uub and all the other younger kids. Right now they don’t really have a place. It seems like they wanted to get one last hoorah out of guys like Roshi and Krillin etc.
I sure hope there's something that continues even with Goten, Trunks and Uub. Just keep going.
KingKaash wrote:This is what happens when you introduce God level characters. The weaker characters get left behind. It almost even happened to the likes of Gohan and Piccolo had the ToP not come around and they needed 10 fighters
It was has nothing to do with their strength,they served no purpose in the buu outside of being a long overdrawn joke........
Oh and they were usefull for making the main villain strong enough to give Gohan his biggest L i guess,thats how as far their usefullness go.[/quote]

So if Goten and Trunks were on Gohan's current power level in DBS, they'd still be jokes? It has plenty to do with power but since they're not strong enough to the rest of the crew they don't get relevant screen time.
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Whatever » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:47 am

KingKaash wrote: So if Goten and Trunks were on Gohan's current power level in DBS, they'd still be jokes? It has plenty to do with power but since they're not strong enough to the rest of the crew they don't get relevant screen time.
To answer your question ask yourself this.
In the buu arc as Gotenks they were the strongest till Gohan got Ultimate and got plently of screen time,did that stop them being from being jokes?
No because thats what their whole character was for and the screentime they got was used only to extend the joke they were.

Gohan has more connections to the main cast and contributions to the story and events surrounding him,thats why he is the one who got the power up and is in the Top instead of them.And unlike them he has an actual character which is why he had an episode like 88 where he got character development.

Trunks and Goten(him way more so)have very little to none character and contributions to the story which is why they did not and most likely won't get the same kind of treatment as Gohan.And its better that way since we have way better characters we could focus on.

What exactly Goten and Trunks have to offer to the story?What benefit can the story get from it?
Whatever they have to offer has already or can be filled by some other character.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Shaqazooloo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:47 am

Not really. Aren't they pretty much gag characters in Z? The only thing changed from Z to Super imo is now they're far weaker than max power Roshi...
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Xeogran » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:50 pm

Whatever wrote:What exactly Goten and Trunks have to offer to the story?What benefit can the story get from it?
Whatever they have to offer has already or can be filled by some other character.
You can say the same about any other character you know. As to answer your question:

There were situations where Goten's presence could be interesting. For example in the Black arc, where his future counterpart got killed alongside his family.

I'd like to see how someone as cheerful as Goten would act after hearing this, it could lead to a great development.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by KingKaash » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:29 pm

Whatever wrote:
KingKaash wrote: So if Goten and Trunks were on Gohan's current power level in DBS, they'd still be jokes? It has plenty to do with power but since they're not strong enough to the rest of the crew they don't get relevant screen time.
To answer your question ask yourself this.
In the buu arc as Gotenks they were the strongest till Gohan got Ultimate and got plently of screen time,did that stop them being from being jokes?
No because thats what their whole character was for and the screentime they got was used only to extend the joke they were.

Gohan has more connections to the main cast and contributions to the story and events surrounding him,thats why he is the one who got the power up and is in the Top instead of them.And unlike them he has an actual character which is why he had an episode like 88 where he got character development.

Trunks and Goten(him way more so)have very little to none character and contributions to the story which is why they did not and most likely won't get the same kind of treatment as Gohan.And its better that way since we have way better characters we could focus on.

What exactly Goten and Trunks have to offer to the story?What benefit can the story get from it?
Whatever they have to offer has already or can be filled by some other character.
Fair points. For me personally, I wouldn't call Gotenks a joke character in the Buu arc because they held their own against Buu in fighting. What you're calling a joke is what I accept as 2 children's behavior.

Ultimately the writers get to decide who's a "joke" like you are saying and who's powerful like I am saying and they clearly chose not to give Trunks and Goten substantial stories. Now I totally disagree that Trunks and Goten have nothing to offer because I'd way rather see them on screen that Krillin or Roshi. Seeing Goku and Vegeta train their sons as fathers would be something only those two can fulfill
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:53 am

Basaku wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Who is to say they weren't aged because of that?

More logical explanation is they knew they wouldn't have a part so never bothered designing them beyond what they were.

What's the point of aging them if they still don't play apart? Seems pointless.
Consistency for one? I mean, we already know what Trunks looks like as a teen and he already had his teen design created over 25 years ago... What's the point of you defending/excusing this honestly?
Because why does it matter if they're still going to be irrelevant? We haven't seen them in a year but if they were "teened" what difference would it make? Nothing they're still not going to be in the show for a year. Hence it is pointless.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by SsjCookie » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:34 am

Out of all the offspring of Goku and Vegeta, there's at least one still worthy of being the '"son of".
And that's Future Trunks!

It's kinda depressing that Gohan, Goten and Kid Trunks will grow up to be so irrelevant in the future.
And I'n not looking forward to see Pan becoming like her GT persona.

And I have nothing to say about Bra since she's basically a Goten 2.0. :problem:

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:59 pm

We'll always have the hot spring and Planet Potafeu at least(although even that was quickly stripped from them by those guys :x ).
SupremeKai25 wrote:Goten was relevant. His alternate self got murdered brutally by Goku Black, which prompted Goku to get mad and foolishly give another Zenkai Boost to Black. Goten's contribution to Dragon Ball: Super is and has always been, above all else, vital to the plot /s.
LMAO
I was thinking about addressing this in my post, but decided not to, but then you do so a few minutes later, jesus Christ brilliant timing :P
Last edited by dbgtFO on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:03 pm

Goten was relevant. His alternate self got murdered brutally by Goku Black, which prompted Goku to get mad and foolishly give another Zenkai Boost to Black. Goten's contribution to Dragon Ball: Super is and has always been, above all else, vital to the plot /s.
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Li'l Lemmy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:23 pm

Shaqazooloo wrote:Not really. Aren't they pretty much gag characters in Z? The only thing changed from Z to Super imo is now they're far weaker than max power Roshi...
I am sure you meant to say "far stronger". O.o;
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by DBZ Macky » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:48 pm

Remember how in that one episode we had an off-model shot of Trunks in the preview and everyone thought the kids might age a bit and get relevant too?
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Basaku » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:31 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Basaku wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Who is to say they weren't aged because of that?

More logical explanation is they knew they wouldn't have a part so never bothered designing them beyond what they were.

What's the point of aging them if they still don't play apart? Seems pointless.
Consistency for one? I mean, we already know what Trunks looks like as a teen and he already had his teen design created over 25 years ago... What's the point of you defending/excusing this honestly?
Because why does it matter if they're still going to be irrelevant? We haven't seen them in a year but if they were "teened" what difference would it make? Nothing they're still not going to be in the show for a year. Hence it is pointless.
I just told you why - consistency, the show/story's internal logic etc etc. May as well say "why even bother coloring Goten/Trunks or making them human if they don't matter" going by your argument. What's pointless is looking for excuses to justify a simple lazy and unfitting design choice on Toei/Toriyama's part.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by TheOtherDude » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:01 pm

Shaqazooloo wrote:Not really. Aren't they pretty much gag characters in Z? The only thing changed from Z to Super imo is now they're far weaker than max power Roshi...
I really can’t believe there are people out here that actually believe this. Roshi is in no way comparable to Trunks or Goten.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by GamerSkull » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:20 pm

TheOtherDude wrote:
Shaqazooloo wrote:Not really. Aren't they pretty much gag characters in Z? The only thing changed from Z to Super imo is now they're far weaker than max power Roshi...
I really can’t believe there are people out here that actually believe this. Roshi is in no way comparable to Trunks or Goten.
I still find it weird that Roshi is depicted the way he is in Super when he should have reached his peak around the Piccolo Daimao arc in terms of power.
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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by TheOtherDude » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:49 pm

GamerSkull wrote:
TheOtherDude wrote:
Shaqazooloo wrote:Not really. Aren't they pretty much gag characters in Z? The only thing changed from Z to Super imo is now they're far weaker than max power Roshi...
I really can’t believe there are people out here that actually believe this. Roshi is in no way comparable to Trunks or Goten.
I still find it weird that Roshi is depicted the way he is in Super when he should have reached his peak around the Piccolo Daimao arc in terms of power.
Exactly. Roshi would’ve gotten demolished by Raditz, but here he is. Toei sprinkled a little bit of “he was training this entire time” and now everyone defends it like it’s perfectly fine and that nothing is odd about it. If you ignored the rest of dragon ball and only watched super, you’d think Roshi and Piccolo were on par with each other.


Everyone complaining in this thread about the lack of relevance of Trunks and Goten so far is going to feel extremely silly if the next Dragon Ball series has them in main character roles.

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Re: It blows my mind how irrelevant Trunks/Goten were for all 131 Super episodes

Post by Raphael_Z » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:19 pm

TheOtherDude wrote:
GamerSkull wrote:
TheOtherDude wrote:
I really can’t believe there are people out here that actually believe this. Roshi is in no way comparable to Trunks or Goten.
I still find it weird that Roshi is depicted the way he is in Super when he should have reached his peak around the Piccolo Daimao arc in terms of power.
Exactly. Roshi would’ve gotten demolished by Raditz, but here he is. Toei sprinkled a little bit of “he was training this entire time” and now everyone defends it like it’s perfectly fine and that nothing is odd about it. If you ignored the rest of dragon ball and only watched super, you’d think Roshi and Piccolo were on par with each other.


Everyone complaining in this thread about the lack of relevance of Trunks and Goten so far is going to feel extremely silly if the next Dragon Ball series has them in main character roles.
Well, current Android 17 is Blue level despite the fact that he was easily outclassed by Kami-fused Piccolo back in the Android Saga. He trained, he got stronger, that's all there is to it.

Many characters have "peaked" only for them to get stronger and stronger once the plot requires it. For example, Vegeta has "peaked" and become stagnant in two occasions (first time was the 5 years gap between Cell and Boo Saga, second was the 5 year gap between Boo Saga and Battle of the Gods).

It isn't THAT hard to believe that Roshi (who is a 100% human therefore his limit should be the same as the one of Krillin, Tien and Yamcha) could become stronger than what he currently is.

Also, wasn't it established in Super than both Base Vegeta and Base Goku are now stronger than SJJ3 Gotenks? The kid's power has really fallen once they stopped training. I think that both Trunks and Goten had the potential of being Super's version of Cell Games Gohan but Toriyama just doesn't care about them.

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