Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:04 pm

Think of it like this

Time could work in a completely different manner in the world of void.

Maybe one minute there is equivalent to one day on earth (earth time)

Kind of like how time worked much differently in the hyperbolic time chamber

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by darzap » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:43 pm

Because there is a Dragon Ball Z formula and it goes like this:

If some opponent is too strong, there is a slight chance we work around it, but the most probable solution is a power-up, so we need power-ups, no matter whether we just unlock something new, or we go into the RoSaT, or we state "that isn't even my final form/full power". In-universe time means nothing here. In the Freeza arc, our main Saiyans grow by orders of magnitude in a matter of days, in the cell arc they grow ~1 order of magnitude in a week (abusing RoSaT), between Cell and Buu arc there is comparatively little growth in 7 years, even though people kept training (except for Gohan, lol), during the pre-universe-6-tournament training in the RoSaT we saw no visible changes at all, and now we see them grow by orders of magnitude again in a timespan of minutes. If we measure the growth by episodes passing, however it is much more consistent, which tells us that they mostly ignore in-universe time when it comes to increasing strength, because they need that to drive the plot, which is measured in episodes, forward and care little about consistency.

The next part of the Dragon Ball Z formula is that almost every opponent is formidable when we present him, so we have constant tension. Vegeta and Goku went blue to eliminate the trio of danger. Because we need constant tension, every fight has to be somewhat of a challenge, so Goku is exhausted after Goku vs. Jiren #1, after Goku vs. Kefla, after Goku+Vegeta vs. Jiren #2 (he must be because it was superclose) and the in-universe time for recovery gets shorter and shorter (eventually down to seconds), but we need a new full-power Goku, so again: universe-consistency gets thrown out of the window, the real point is: Goku vs. Kefla was last weeks drama, we had a couple of episodes for Goku to recover, so he is recovered now, no matter what the in-universe clock says about that (remember when Saiyans were put in healing tanks for hours?).

The third rule is, that it's all about the Z fighters, so the elimination count of universe 7 is almost 10 times the average and >25 times the median of the elimination counts by universe. This is ridiculous, what were the other fighters doing when they didn't fight somebody from universe 7? Spectating?

Part four of the DBZ formula is, that we need somebody telling us, that the stuff at which we're looking is amazing (it's not sufficient to see the whole world crumbling and the universe shaking), even when nobody is present to witness it, we have telepathic, farseeing Kais for that (an example of Dragon Ball Z tropes not only transcending time but space as well). So we need the talk, even though there is no time for it. IIRC we saw gods commenting on the awesome pressure of SSB more than one time in the ToP, even though they've seen it just minutes ago. With the giant peanut gallery, the huge Angel/GoD/Supreme Kai expert and the super-excitable Zenos we have now, however, the commenting has reached peak ridiculous.

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:30 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I mean, Namek is really dumb, but even Namek didn't have Goku attain the basic SS then go through all the grade forms and then master SS1 all in an implausibly short amount of time.
When did that happen in Super?

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by darzap » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:34 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:I mean, Namek is really dumb, but even Namek didn't have Goku attain the basic SS then go through all the grade forms and then master SS1 all in an implausibly short amount of time.
When did that happen in Super?
Don't worry it didn't. It's not SSJ1 he'll attain and master in half hour, but just Ultra Instinct that thing even the GoDs under the guidance of angels have trouble mastering.

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by buutenks » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:58 am

TanishKhatri003 wrote:I am really confused right now. Dragon Ball has been messing with time ever since the freeza saga back in the 1980s. But they've reached a new level now. The time now remaining in the tournament of Power is just 2 minutes, and the episodes remaining are 3. Earlier in the tournament, 2 or 3 minutes elasped in just 1 episode. How do they plan to draw out these 2 minutes for 3 episodes?
The Freeza fight in the namek saga was plagued with filler. The manga is very short in comparison.

Dont think to much of it, it has no sense whatsoever.

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by TanishKhatri003 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:27 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:Think of it like this

Time could work in a completely different manner in the world of void.

Maybe one minute there is equivalent to one day on earth (earth time)

Kind of like how time worked much differently in the hyperbolic time chamber
This can't be true, because Goku told Goten and Trunks to look after #17's island for only two hours or so, and Whis, being well aware that the tournament was to be held in World of Void, said that the tournament would last for only 48 minutes. There must a reason for that.

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:48 am

darzap wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:I mean, Namek is really dumb, but even Namek didn't have Goku attain the basic SS then go through all the grade forms and then master SS1 all in an implausibly short amount of time.
When did that happen in Super?
Don't worry it didn't. It's not SSJ1 he'll attain and master in half hour, but just Ultra Instinct that thing even the GoDs under the guidance of angels have trouble mastering.
Exactly. We're expected to believe Goku attains even an incomplete version of something that difficult and he'll master it about 20 in-universe minutes later? Hell naw, it doesn't work. Just like how Kale can get three SS forms in the span of half an hour and go through a character arc or two in relation to two of said forms in the same time span.
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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:15 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
darzap wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: When did that happen in Super?
Don't worry it didn't. It's not SSJ1 he'll attain and master in half hour, but just Ultra Instinct that thing even the GoDs under the guidance of angels have trouble mastering.
Exactly. We're expected to believe Goku attains even an incomplete version of something that difficult and he'll master it about 20 in-universe minutes later? Hell naw, it doesn't work. Just like how Kale can get three SS forms in the span of half an hour and go through a character arc or two in relation to two of said forms in the same time span.
Kale unlocked her SSJ Berserk form before the Tournament Of Power in the anime. After that she unlocked a basic SSJ form and then mastered and fully controlled her SSJ Berserk form. What you just described is what may happen in the manga.

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:38 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
darzap wrote:
Don't worry it didn't. It's not SSJ1 he'll attain and master in half hour, but just Ultra Instinct that thing even the GoDs under the guidance of angels have trouble mastering.
Exactly. We're expected to believe Goku attains even an incomplete version of something that difficult and he'll master it about 20 in-universe minutes later? Hell naw, it doesn't work. Just like how Kale can get three SS forms in the span of half an hour and go through a character arc or two in relation to two of said forms in the same time span.
Kale unlocked her SSJ Berserk form before the Tournament Of Power in the anime. After that she unlocked a basic SSJ form and then mastered and fully controlled her SSJ Berserk form. What you just described is what may happen in the manga.
Point taken about initial Berserker but her mastering it and unlocking a new SS form is still a load of bull in such a short amount of time. The will probably suck in this respect too unless Toyotaro just completely drops the entire Broly premise with Kale which could happen as I doubt that was a Toriyama mandate.
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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:53 pm

The biggest instance of time flowing in a way that it shouldn’t was when Belmod took the time to explain Jiren’s backstory. Despite the obvious fact that a character taking the time to dump a whole bunch of exposition should be a rather time consuming thing, only a single minute passed for the entire episode. While you could justify the other cases of time moving slowly by this idea that the characters are moving at lightning speed, the thing with Jiren’s backstory just comes across as ridiculous. The only way you can justify that is if you assume that Belmod was talking at lightning speed, which kind of makes it difficult to take the scene seriously.

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:54 pm

Dragon Ball is about as unrealistic as it comes. Is time issue like this really what breaks it for some people? That's just bizarre to me.
ekrolo2 wrote:I mostly dislike the time thing as we're supposed to believe that Kale goes through a character arc or two and acquires about 3 different Super Saiyan forms all in the span of what, 25-30 minutes? Or how Goku can attain the power everyone but the Angels are shit at using and will master it in 10-15 minutes in-universe?

I mean, Namek is really dumb, but even Namek didn't have Goku attain the basic SS then go through all the grade forms and then master SS1 all in an implausibly short amount of time.
That's not a fair comparison. Goku's entire state of being is completely different to back before Namek, he's trained on other planets, he's trained in other worlds, he's trained with Kai's and he's now trained by gods and angels. Hell he absorbed SSG effective immediately. Him mastering UI quickly is not implausible in the least.

This isn't Namek Goku.

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Logania » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:54 pm

It's funny how the 48 minute limit wasn't that far fetched honestly at the beginning to me when It was a battle royale, showing everyone's view on the battlefield during the time, and a lot of YouTubers did a good job meshing in all the scenes with a time clock to show that it's plausible.

https://youtu.be/jXIUYQ1Hi6A

I feel it only became a problem around the time of Goku and Jiren's first fight where they begin telling you how much time's left every single episode, breaking the immersion a bit. They don't need to tell us that time only went by about a minute an episode, and if they didn't I feel it really wouldn't have been that glaring of an issue (well at least I wouldn't have minded much)
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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:58 pm

TanishKhatri003 wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:Think of it like this

Time could work in a completely different manner in the world of void.

Maybe one minute there is equivalent to one day on earth (earth time)

Kind of like how time worked much differently in the hyperbolic time chamber
This can't be true, because Goku told Goten and Trunks to look after #17's island for only two hours or so, and Whis, being well aware that the tournament was to be held in World of Void, said that the tournament would last for only 48 minutes. There must a reason for that.
That couldve been Whis operating on his version of time.

Whis is an angel, and time could easily apply differently to the angels.

Whis couldve also told them "48 mins" based on how he knows time works in the world of void.

Now if Whis had said "it will only take 48 'earthly' mins," then that wouldve been definitive

Who knows what Whis's "48 mins" means in comparison to 48 mins on earth. Or if its still just the same

I understand this is headcanon, but I'm just pointing out how easily it could be explained or rationalized. It really isnt a big deal though. This has always been Dragon Ball. In the Frieza arc look what "5 mins" became lol

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Lord Frieza » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:17 pm

It all depend on your perception of time. A normal person watching this would see nothing but a flashs happening all over the place and the ring getting destroyed. What you are seeing is time as it is relevant to the fighters, beings who move and perceive the universe in a much faster way then we do. Time as we humans see it is not an absolute but relative to our brains perceptions of reality. To the fighters we would appears to not be moving or at least barely, like watching the rains erode a mountain, a single seconds movement for us taking would feel like ages to them.


To quote Einstein "Time is an illusion" and to quote Ford Prefect "Lunch time even more so".

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:27 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Dragon Ball is about as unrealistic as it comes. Is time issue like this really what breaks it for some people? That's just bizarre to me.
ekrolo2 wrote:I mostly dislike the time thing as we're supposed to believe that Kale goes through a character arc or two and acquires about 3 different Super Saiyan forms all in the span of what, 25-30 minutes? Or how Goku can attain the power everyone but the Angels are shit at using and will master it in 10-15 minutes in-universe?

I mean, Namek is really dumb, but even Namek didn't have Goku attain the basic SS then go through all the grade forms and then master SS1 all in an implausibly short amount of time.
That's not a fair comparison. Goku's entire state of being is completely different to back before Namek, he's trained on other planets, he's trained in other worlds, he's trained with Kai's and he's now trained by gods and angels. Hell he absorbed SSG effective immediately. Him mastering UI quickly is not implausible in the least.

This isn't Namek Goku.
It is for me when the context for it is that its supposed to be something so incredibly difficult that the GoDs, people who've been around for millions of years if not longer have tried and seemingly failed to get it down pat. Now Goku is gonna get AND mater it in 20 minutes.

And my comparison was more to use Super's idea of logic and apply it to the older stories and there, we'd have dumb shit like Goku getting and mastering SS in a few in-universe minutes.
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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Shaqazooloo » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:51 pm

I'm pretty sure it's just a parody of the namek/Freeza thing and nothing more. a lot of this arc is just Dragon Ball memes and thats one of them.
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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:38 pm

Shaqazooloo wrote:I'm pretty sure it's just a parody of the namek/Freeza thing and nothing more. a lot of this arc is just Dragon Ball memes and thats one of them.
And that says a lot , especially coming from the meme God Shaggy
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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Code » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:26 am

Lord Frieza wrote:It all depend on your perception of time. A normal person watching this would see nothing but a flashs happening all over the place and the ring getting destroyed. What you are seeing is time as it is relevant to the fighters, beings who move and perceive the universe in a much faster way then we do. Time as we humans see it is not an absolute but relative to our brains perceptions of reality. To the fighters we would appears to not be moving or at least barely, like watching the rains erode a mountain, a single seconds movement for us taking would feel like ages to them.


To quote Einstein "Time is an illusion" and to quote Ford Prefect "Lunch time even more so".
Still doesn't explain, how they are able to talk. Or how the peanut gallery is able to comment on the action, while it is happening. Talking is BY DEFINITION happening at the speed of sound. You can't talk at the speed of light, that's not how talking works. Lip reading has never been mentioned in the series and is a prime example of headcanon.

Technically speaking, every time fighters talk to each other, it is proof, that they are only fighting at the speed of sound (which is 0,0001% of the speed of light)

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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:27 am

Code wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:It all depend on your perception of time. A normal person watching this would see nothing but a flashs happening all over the place and the ring getting destroyed. What you are seeing is time as it is relevant to the fighters, beings who move and perceive the universe in a much faster way then we do. Time as we humans see it is not an absolute but relative to our brains perceptions of reality. To the fighters we would appears to not be moving or at least barely, like watching the rains erode a mountain, a single seconds movement for us taking would feel like ages to them.


To quote Einstein "Time is an illusion" and to quote Ford Prefect "Lunch time even more so".
Still doesn't explain, how they are able to talk. Or how the peanut gallery is able to comment on the action, while it is happening. Talking is BY DEFINITION happening at the speed of sound. You can't talk at the speed of light, that's not how talking works. Lip reading has never been mentioned in the series and is a prime example of headcanon.

Technically speaking, every time fighters talk to each other, it is proof, that they are only fighting at the speed of sound (which is 0,0001% of the speed of light)
Things like this fall under suspension of disbelief.
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Re: Why is time not going as it should in the Tournament of Power?

Post by Lord Frieza » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:18 pm

Code wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:It all depend on your perception of time. A normal person watching this would see nothing but a flashs happening all over the place and the ring getting destroyed. What you are seeing is time as it is relevant to the fighters, beings who move and perceive the universe in a much faster way then we do. Time as we humans see it is not an absolute but relative to our brains perceptions of reality. To the fighters we would appears to not be moving or at least barely, like watching the rains erode a mountain, a single seconds movement for us taking would feel like ages to them.


To quote Einstein "Time is an illusion" and to quote Ford Prefect "Lunch time even more so".
Still doesn't explain, how they are able to talk. Or how the peanut gallery is able to comment on the action, while it is happening. Talking is BY DEFINITION happening at the speed of sound. You can't talk at the speed of light, that's not how talking works. Lip reading has never been mentioned in the series and is a prime example of headcanon.

Technically speaking, every time fighters talk to each other, it is proof, that they are only fighting at the speed of sound (which is 0,0001% of the speed of light)
The post above pretty much some it up, and Goku and co are for from the only offenders. There are many, many characters who can move faster then the speed of sound by a pretty big margin in fiction and the vast majority have been depicted holding conversations.

Also lets look at this fairly, these guys have been moveing faster then the speed of sound for years and they have been making audible sounds and talking to eachother while doing so. Its a bit late in the game to find issue with this kind of detail.

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