The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ssj4
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The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by ssj4 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:17 pm

One issue which many people have with Super are the 'new' forms being introduced that are just blatant recolors. It's just laziness and uninspiring. What's the purpose of including them if they're just recolors. Not to mention how the way most of these forms are achieved isn't really well explained.

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:53 pm

I'll speak only for Super Saiyan Rosé, but even if it's just a 'recolor' of Super Saiyan Blue, it is still quite a unique and iconic form. The symbolism is hidden, but once discovered, it is quite fascinating; 'roses' being often associated with beauty, but also with death, and thus they are a perfect representation of the most twisted and darkest desires of the splendid fallen God, Zamasu. It was a 'recolor', but it made Black stand out greatly from the rest of the cast and received positive reactions from the community, so personally it wasn't lazy and uninspiring.

But I didn't know that many fans had an issue with this, I thought that forms like Super Saiyan Rosé, Super Saiyan Blue and Super Saiyan God were quite popular and beloved by the community.
Last edited by SupremeKai25 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by sintzu » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:53 pm

When BOG came out Toriyama said future stories would just focus on Goku's base and Ssj1 forms but that was clearly shot down by the high ups running the franchise.
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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Logania » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:18 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:I'll speak only for Super Saiyan Rosé, but even if it's just a 'recolor' of Super Saiyan Blue, it is still quite a unique and iconic form. The symbolism is hidden, but once discovered, it is quite fascinating; 'roses' being often associated with beauty, but also with death, and thus they are a perfect representation of the most twisted and darkest desires of the splendid fallen God, Zamasu. It was a 'recolor', but it made Black stand out greatly from the rest of the cast and received positive reactions from the community, so personally it wasn't lazy and uninspiring.
You know I'm always seeing this reasoning for the form and the symbolism but I always thought it was a bit more simple than that. You go to SSJB and inverse the colors and you get Rosé and vice versa, always giving me the idea of it just being a clever showing of him being Goku' s opposite.

Not saying everyone who shares your viewpoint on it are wrong or foolish, it's just most forms designs in the series are done just because and Rosé felt no different to me.
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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Lionel » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:13 pm

The allure of the transformations is lost on me to begin with. It's become routine for there to be one or several "new" forms every arc now. Nothing about them appeals to someone like myself. I have more interest in Zarbon's monster form than I do Saiyans stacking another layer onto their already towering mound of endless hair colouring schemes.

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Mister_Popo » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:27 pm

I actually don't see merchandise and the fact kids love it as something negative. Kids love the different colors and the Power Ranger-feeling of it.
It's because of that we probably get some more Dragon ball in the future.
It keeps the franchise running.

The recolors often make sense. Blue actually has a SSJ1-transformation involved, so it's normal it looks like SSJ1.
Non-mastered UI = black hair with sylver shine, mastered UI = completely sylver hair, makes perfect sense to me too.

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by GamerSkull » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:37 pm

Every single transformation/form after Goku's original super saiyan have been underwhelming to me aside from SSJ4 (mostly because I liked the return to the ape stuff).

SSJ2 and SSJ3 aren't technically recolors but I don't particularly care for them aside from Gohan's initial transformation into the former.

So I don't especially care much about these recolored forms myself and I agree that it's starting to feel ridiculous... especially since I don't like most of the new forms that weren't recolors.
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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:45 pm

sintzu wrote:When BOG came out Toriyama said future stories would just focus on Goku's base and Ssj1 forms but that was clearly shot down by the high ups running the franchise.
No he didn't, seriously this misconceptions needs to end. He said probably and "I think". It was NOT a definitive statement at all. And even if he did make a definitive statement people can change their minds and opinions on things, it is absolutely ridiculous to jump the the conclusions "the higher ups shut him down".
Mister_Popo wrote:I actually don't see merchandise and the fact kids love it as something negative. Kids love the different colors and the Power Ranger-feeling of it.
It's because of that we probably get some more Dragon ball in the future.
It keeps the franchise running.

The recolors often make sense. Blue actually has a SSJ1-transformation involved, so it's normal it looks like SSJ1.
Non-mastered UI = black hair with sylver shine, mastered UI = completely sylver hair, makes perfect sense to me too
.
Finally someone with some sense, SSGSS does what it says on the tin (which is why I hate the name SSB as unlike SSGSS it doesn't explain the form at all) and UI "Omen" was just that a sign of things to come ie the hair shape and silver eyes.

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:03 pm

GamerSkull wrote:Every single transformation/form after Goku's original super saiyan have been underwhelming to me aside from SSJ4 (mostly because I liked the return to the ape stuff).
I wish SSJ4 had a different name though. It's basically a combination of Oozaru and SSJ, so I think it should have a name that aligns more with that. I hope an Oozaru SSJ combination is reintroduced in the canon.

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Basaku » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:15 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
GamerSkull wrote:Every single transformation/form after Goku's original super saiyan have been underwhelming to me aside from SSJ4 (mostly because I liked the return to the ape stuff).
I wish SSJ4 had a different name though. It's basically a combination of Oozaru and SSJ, so I think it should have a name that aligns more with that. I hope an Oozaru SSJ combination is reintroduced in the canon.
They did it with Broly's form and gave it a new name too. I say chances are high they may do the exact same with SSJ4 design given how popular it is (unlike the rest of GT)

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:30 pm

I don't mind designs being basic if they have something else to offer. I still like the minimalist look of God, which kickstarted the whole thing (at least in modern DB; lest we forget, Super Saiyan itself started as an excuse to save on inking the manga pages). It's become clearer over time that minimalist was just short-hand for laziness.

Super Saiyan Blue was cool precisely once in it's entire history and that was in episode 39 of Dragon Ball Super and the glorious reveal of the Kaioken combination. Not only was that a cool moment, but it introduced a bunch of properties that enabled it to happen like ki control that made it seem like that was the value the form had. But at some point along the way, it just became like any other Super Saiyan form, strong but draining, and the potentially interesting aspects were never brought up again.

Super Saiyan Rose was fine, it fits the character well enough and has a nice contrast with the Blue. I'm certain these colours are chosen primarily for contrast purposes. Like, I'd bet money that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was Blue to contrast with Golden Freeza. Ultra Instinct "Omen" (retch) was so cool because it felt like more than just another Super Saiyan transformation. The black hair worked for the same reason it does with ultimate Gohan, having a nice back to basics feel, and of course it's the first time in a long time a transformation has actually changed up the flow of combat, rather than just giving the character a big power level. But, Toriyama had to get his Blanco on and now we're ending the series on yet another transformation defined by it's hair colour. I'm sure the good aspects of UI will still be there in the final battle and maybe they'll pull out some new tricks as well, but I feel like knowing there's a mastered version a hair colour change really hurts the magic of the form.

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by drunkNASCARfan » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:39 pm

>The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous
>getting
There's no "getting" about it. Its been ridiculous ever since god got replaced by blue so fast.

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Kanious » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:21 pm

Better a recolor than SSJ2 in many cases making no difference aside the lightning

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Grimlock » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:24 pm

Kanious wrote:Better a recolor than SSJ2 in many cases making no difference aside the lightning
"Many"? I count two cases. But maybe it is better not making any differences yet sticking with one color than bringing a rainbow of hairs, right?

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:27 pm

ssj4 wrote:One issue which many people have with Super are the 'new' forms being introduced that are just blatant recolors. It's just laziness and uninspiring. What's the purpose of including them if they're just recolors. Not to mention how the way most of these forms are achieved isn't really well explained.
Why are they lazy? We know Toriyama's intentions behind these forms from the interviews, actual thought has been placed into them.
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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by sintzu » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:37 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:He said probably and "I think". It was NOT a definitive statement at all. And even if he did make a definitive statement people can change their minds and opinions on things, it is absolutely ridiculous to jump the the conclusions "the higher ups shut him down".
I highly doubt he would've changed his mind that quick. We already know that "the editorial office"worked with him on the Black arc so why wouldn't they tell him to write in more forms ?
Kanious wrote:Better a recolor than SSJ2 in many cases making no difference aside the lightning
That's because Ssj2 wasn't written as a new form for Gohan but just him unlocking his hidden powers as a Ssj. It was more of a completed Ssj1 than anything else based on how it looks. It's the same thing as the 2 grade forms, they're both just the user as a Ssj doing what Roshi, Freeza and Cell did by getting more power through making their mucsles bigger. The only "real" new form was Ssj3 which should've been 2 as it's the true next step in Ssj forms.
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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Shaqazooloo » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:56 pm

ssj4 wrote:What's the purpose of including them if they're just recolors.
So they can put in as little effort as humanly possible with merch and make tons of money?
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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by Guesswhoo » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:12 pm

Escalation always played a big part in the appeal of long running Shonen-Action show, especially when they are focused on an developping MC (the watermark of Shonen anime and manga). DB is no exception, it expresses its escalation with transformation, the real issue here is whether or not those transformation are JUST a recolor, the answer (for me) is NO but with unfornate exception:

-SSB is indisputably not a bland recolor, it has clear purpose that was well expressed in the anime as well as an actual thought in the design by the author, SSB also has an uniqueness in the way its power work ie its the form with the best Ki control out of all (as opposed to SSJ3), something that a big part of the audience doesn't seem to understand yet.

-SSRosé is SSB with all its uniqueness but the meaning behind the transformation is actually more pronounced.

- Ultra instinct has the massive skill boost it gives to its user, the design is still up to discussion

-Super/Darker/Royal/.. Blue vegeta (even if it may be an anime exclusive form) was given a meaning (stated by vegeta) and happens to give him the power to rival Kaioken without the backlash.

SSrage and arguably Super vegeta blue are the "JUST A RECOLOR" form here. So, we have a 3/5 or 4/5 ? Isn't that acceptable enough ?

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by HeroR » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:19 pm

Shaqazooloo wrote:
ssj4 wrote:What's the purpose of including them if they're just recolors.
So they can put in as little effort as humanly possible with merch and make tons of money?
People keep saying this despite only Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, Rose, and now UI getting any real merchandise out of all the new Super Saiyan forms introduced in Super. Even with Super Saiyan God returning, it still hasn't really got anything new.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: The amount of recolor forms is getting ridiculous

Post by precita » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:42 pm

The color change forms are awful but now they've run out of stuff.

What's next, Super Saiyan rainbow? There's also still purple and orange I guess...lol

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