Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

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Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by FiReFTW » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:27 pm

I'm almost certain its a similar case as it is with Beerus and Whis.. Beerus is a god of destruction that destroys things etc... but we all know Whis is much stronger than him in reality.
I think its the same thing with Zeno, he is the destructor of things but Grand Priest as the grand angel is like Whis is to Beerus, and stronger than him.

What do you guys think?

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by Grimlock » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:47 pm

Everyone is stronger than Zeno. He does not fight/is not suited for battle, so anyone who train a little bit may be able defeat him in battle with no problem.

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by Lord Frieza » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:50 pm

Sometimes its not about strength, sometimes its about the fact that some little germline has free access to the cosmic delete button.

There are some things that strength simple cannot overcome.

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:55 pm

As the two replies above me already state, Zeno doesn’t need power and can simple ERASE the Grand Priest.
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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:49 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:As the two replies above me already state, Zeno doesn’t need power and can simple ERASE the Grand Priest.
If you notice, where everyone is usually scared in the presence of the zenos, the angels have never once shown any kind of fear of zeno

We have never seen an angle deleted.

Even when an angle's universe gets deleted, that angle doesnt get erased

IMO theyve been trying to show us that the angles do not fear deletion because they are above deletion

The Grand Priet literally treats the zenos like small children lol

I've been saying it for a while that based on all the hints, I believe the grand priest is superior to the zenos in power, abilities, and rank.

I believe the zenos are simply the gods of destruction for the multiverse.

- If the zenos were truly all powerful and infinite why are there even 2 zenos to begin with? That means each timeline has a zeno. If the zeno was the all knowing ruler he would be able to oversee and exist as one across all timelines

- We have never seen the zenos create. This is a big one. If the zenos can not create they are nothing more then gods of destruction (just on a larger scale obviousy)

- We have seen the grand priest create. The grand priest created the world of void fron nothing and was able to instantly disable flying

- The grand priest can manipulate time and so can all his children

- if the zenos were the all powerful ruler of all, THEN why did the grand priest need to create the zenos a god pad to keep up with the action in the tournament. Yet the grand priest doesnt need a god pad to keep up

There have been tons of hints like that through out showing how the GP is more all knowing and more powerful

All the zenos can do is just destroy.

Not only do I feel that the Grand Priest is the superior to the zenos, I feel that the true all knowing powerful ruler of all is Zalama.

Zalama created the dragon balls. His super dragon balls can OVER DO the erasures of the zenos and bring back deleted universes. Zalama>>>>>>>>>>>>>zenos

People have joked about the tori-bot, I feel Zalama=Toriyama.

I think when the next series (or the next iteration of Super) returns, zalama will be fully explored

I also feel there will be a big reveal that the zenos are simply the god of destruction for the multiverse and that the grand priest is responsible for a lot more then imagined and is much higher on the hierarchy then we thought

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by ToshioWrites » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:11 pm

El Grand Padre is way stronger than Zeno. The only one who can even compare is Gohan in his Calvo form

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:45 am

Zeno has infinite power (in db terms). He not knowing how to fight does not mean a punch will hurt him. The dude can tank his own deletion of an entire timeline

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by darzap » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:08 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:If you notice, where everyone is usually scared in the presence of the zenos, the angels have never once shown any kind of fear of zeno
I'm not scared of my boss either, because I do my job properly. The angels have nothing to fear because Zeno has nothing to be upset about with them. It's the gods who are failing at their jobs regularly (if 8 universes have unacceptable mortal levels).
IMO theyve been trying to show us that the angles do not fear deletion because they are above deletion
Dragon Ball has never been that subtle. If they wanted to show that to us we would have specific moments in the show that we could point to where they really draw the spotlight on that aspect.
The Grand Priet literally treats the zenos like small children lol
Because they are and he is taking care of them. Everybody who is taking care of the mentally underdeveloped (for whatever reason) starts to talk like a kindergartener at some point, it comes naturally.
I've been saying it for a while that based on all the hints, I believe the grand priest is superior to the zenos in power, abilities, and rank.
These "hints" are all completely implicit, we never had a close-up to some person observing those supposed hints and thinking in an inner monolog about that possibility, which would be the kind of super-obvious hints, that Dragon Ball always does when they really want to hint at something. Again: Dragon Ball is not that subtle.
I believe the zenos are simply the gods of destruction for the multiverse.
A common speculation that is yet to be substantiated by anything other than loose parallels, that have never received attention or focus in a series that has only 3 episodes left.
- If the zenos were truly all powerful and infinite why are there even 2 zenos to begin with? That means each timeline has a zeno. If the zeno was the all knowing ruler he would be able to oversee and exist as one across all timelines
Time-travel is an anomaly. They could be all-powerful within the bounds of their timeline.
- We have never seen the zenos create. This is a big one. If the zenos can not create they are nothing more then gods of destruction (just on a larger scale obviousy)
We have (most likely) never seen the Kais create either (the one thing I can remember is the supreme Kai summoning a block of Kachin, but maybe he just teleported it there from somewhere else), even though they are the gods of creation. The series is simply more focused on destruction than on creation.
- We have seen the grand priest create. The grand priest created the world of void fron nothing and was able to instantly disable flying
We've seen Vados create something as well. Is she more powerful than Zeno?
- The grand priest can manipulate time and so can all his children
We've seen angels manipulate time with their staffs in a very limited fashion and Kais manipulate time (changing past or future events) using timerings. We have never seen Zeno do it, but we have never seen him fail at something either.
- if the zenos were the all powerful ruler of all, THEN why did the grand priest need to create the zenos a god pad to keep up with the action in the tournament. Yet the grand priest doesnt need a god pad to keep up
Because the Zenos were mentioned to be no fighters, but they still can erase every fighter whom they wanted to erase so far. We have never seen a limit to their erasure ability.
There have been tons of hints like that through out showing how the GP is more all knowing and more powerful
These "hints" are just speculation based on observed events that didn't focus on these aspects at all. I repeat: DB is not that subtle.
All the zenos can do is just destroy.
Have we ever see them try and fail to create?
Not only do I feel that the Grand Priest is the superior to the zenos, I feel that the true all knowing powerful ruler of all is Zalama.
Mere surmise.
Zalama created the dragon balls. His super dragon balls can OVER DO the erasures of the zenos and bring back deleted universes.
We do not know this. We do not know, whether Zeno could erase the Super Dragon if he wanted to. Zeno can supposedly over do this by deleting the universes again, a feat he already demonstrated. We do not know, whether he could destroy the Super Dragon Balls.
Zalama>>>>>>>>>>>>>zenos
Mere surmise. Maybe he is, maybe it is the other way around, maybe they each have unique abilities in non-overlapping areas of abilities.
People have joked about the tori-bot, I feel Zalama=Toriyama.
Mere surmise.
I think when the next series (or the next iteration of Super) returns, zalama will be fully explored

I also feel there will be a big reveal that the zenos are simply the god of destruction for the multiverse and that the grand priest is responsible for a lot more then imagined and is much higher on the hierarchy then we thought
Mere surmise.

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:50 am

I doubt they'll reveal a twist like that when the show is so close to ending.
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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by FiReFTW » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:26 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:As the two replies above me already state, Zeno doesn’t need power and can simple ERASE the Grand Priest.
I don't think so, Beerus can in sense "destroy" Whis too, but in reality he really can't.

Observing at the intra-universal level, the god of the universe is found to be weaker than the respective angel of that universe. For example:- Beerus is weaker than whis. This is because the angels need to keep an eye on the god of destruction of their respective universes, as they may get out of control and use their power wrongly.
To keep beerus from doing wrong tasks, whis needs to be stronger than him.

Now observe in terms of inter-universe level. Zeno is the ruler of all the universes and Grand Priest is his attendant. Going by the same analogy as that of intra-universal level, it may be deduced that Grand Priest must be stronger than zeno to keep an eye on his actions so that he may not do the childish acts like destroying all the universes.

So far we only know that Zeno can destroy universes, similar to how Beerus and other Gods of Destructions can destroy things in their own universe, but we have not seen any other feats or proof that Zeno has any other strong capabilities.

Zeno needed the Grand Priest to show him an update on the construction of the tournament of power stage and world, he could not see it for himself which proves he is inferior as a being in being able to know and see whats happening in other dimensions and universes.

Zeno also could not see the movements of fighters in the tournament of power and needed Grand Priest to give him a slow motion option in order to see the fight.

Zeno also is a child and acts like a 3 or 4 year child, very unlikely that such a being would be the true god and ruler of everything.

There have been zero things showing that Zeno has incredibly strong capabilities and being omnipotent apart from the fact that he can destroy things similar as god of destruction, but his destruction power is greater than the gods of destruction.

But it has been shown that the Grand Priest posseses incredible omnipotent powers, seeing and knowing whats happening in different dimensions, being able to create whole new dimensions (tournament of power world), making matter and physical constructs in different dimension, teleporting a lot of beings from different dimensions and universes into other dimensions and universes, he seems to have incredible omnipotent powers.

So if we go by what we have seen so far its quite likely that even if Zeno is known to be the omni king, its quite possible that the Grand Priest is stronger and superior to him, or even other beings that are above him possibly.

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by darzap » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:36 am

FiReFTW wrote:I don't think so, Beerus can in sense "destroy" Whis too, but in reality he really can't.
Future Zeno might or might not have erased Future Grand Priest when he erased the multiverse.
Observing at the intra-universal level, the god of the universe is found to be weaker than the respective angel of that universe. For example:- Beerus is weaker than whis. This is because the angels need to keep an eye on the god of destruction of their respective universes, as they may get out of control and use their power wrongly.
To keep beerus from doing wrong tasks, whis needs to be stronger than him.

Now observe in terms of inter-universe level. Zeno is the ruler of all the universes and Grand Priest is his attendant. Going by the same analogy as that of intra-universal level, it may be deduced that Grand Priest must be stronger than zeno to keep an eye on his actions so that he may not do the childish acts like destroying all the universes.
You mean like he did in the future without any Grand Priest stopping him? The parallel between the Angel/GoD-relationship to the Grand Priest/Zeno relationship is that an angel is assisting a being that has destroyed stuff, but it was never mentioned, that Zeno is being in the martial arts, for example. There is no prove that the parallels extend to other stuff and the characters never speculated about that in-universe.
So far we only know that Zeno can destroy universes, similar to how Beerus and other Gods of Destructions can destroy things in their own universe, but we have not seen any other feats or proof that Zeno has any other strong capabilities.

Zeno needed the Grand Priest to show him an update on the construction of the tournament of power stage and world, he could not see it for himself which proves he is inferior as a being in being able to know and see whats happening in other dimensions and universes.
And Vados is an inferior being to Bulma when it comes to Dragon Ball Location technology. Unless otherwise noted, there is no reason to generalize this aspect to other capabilities.
Zeno also could not see the movements of fighters in the tournament of power and needed Grand Priest to give him a slow motion option in order to see the fight.
Yet, he can still erase those fighters.
Zeno also is a child and acts like a 3 or 4 year child, very unlikely that such a being would be the true god and ruler of everything.
How likely is it, that a god who is way above Kami in position and power, wants to be told a funny joke in exchange for training? How likely is it, that the king of the world is a humanoid dog? How likely is it, that the boss of a world-spanning crime organization wants to collect the Dragon Balls that can grant wishes only to grow a few feet? A major theme in Dragon Ball is weird, unexpected humor. The whole joke of Zeno is the fact that his properties are so weird for a ruler of everything.
There have been zero things showing that Zeno has incredibly strong capabilities and being omnipotent apart from the fact that he can destroy things similar as god of destruction, but his destruction power is greater than the gods of destruction.
And he can erase the whole multiverse so that nothing but a weird flurry of colors remains, where 12 universes used to be.
But it has been shown that the Grand Priest posseses incredible omnipotent powers, seeing and knowing whats happening in different dimensions, being able to create whole new dimensions (tournament of power world), making matter and physical constructs in different dimension, teleporting a lot of beings from different dimensions and universes into other dimensions and universes, he seems to have incredible omnipotent powers.
Vados was able to peek at the earth through her staff, while she was in a different universe. The Supreme Kais have shown time travel with the help of their rings. When was it said that Grand Priest created the world of void and that it wasn't there already? The Supreme Kais can teleport among realms as well (at least between their universe and the palace of the Omni King) and even take other people with them. The stage that Zeno created shatters at the KI attacks of mortals on a small scale and on a grand scale under the attacks of Toppo . Zeno gave Goku a button that can teleport him or Goku across realms. The scaling of all of these feats and your assessment of some set of those feats, namely those that the Grand Preist displayed as "incredible omnipotent powers" is pretty arbitrary.
So if we go by what we have seen so far its quite likely that even if Zeno is known to be the omni king, its quite possible that the Grand Priest is stronger and superior to him, or even other beings that are above him possibly.
Likely based on mere speculations and extrapolation based on limited similarities to the GoD/angel-pairings.

Here is a different take:
Dragon Ball Super introduces new concepts whenever it is convenient to drive the plot forward (RoSaT, bring back the dead for 24h, time reversal, pocket dimension in Whis' staff, all-knowing Zuno-sama on a tiny planet, Supreme Kai teleport out of the universe, time rings, planet and realm between U6 and U7, world of void, Kachi Kachin, time-limited Potara fusion, Angel healing abilities, Zeno button) and if those concepts are about abilities/properties they give those abilities to the current most mysterious being/realm (Baba, Kami's realm, Kaio, Supreme Kai, Whis, Grand Priest). If they want to drop a hint that something might not be as it seems, they do it in super-obvious ways that kids pick up on, such as close-ups and internal monolog with speculation, a close-up to an evil smile, etc. Remember how subtle they were in hinting that Zamasu might have pretty twisted opinions on mortals? Or that there might be something up with Yamu and Spopovich? Or that Monaka might not be this superpowerful guy? The hints in DB are so obvious that many people here mistake them for Red Herrings, when they are shown in the series (I'm not sure at what point I was convinced that Monaka is actually weak).

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by Fizzer » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:00 pm

The Angels do seem to be an order of beings potentially higher than Zeno. When the Gods bow to Zeno or act subservient to him, the Angels stay standing and remain calm. Zeno may just be something of a figurehead put in place by the angels, or at least they're the ones really running the show. I could imagine the Angels actually working for a higher god, maybe Zalama, maybe Zeno's dad or something, and Zeno really is more akin to a "king" of the multiverse than a "god" of it.

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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by Smilodon » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:48 pm

Whis was afraid of Zen'o when he said he want to see Goku;

Zen'o guards were afraid too when Zen'o said he would destroy them. Those guards must be at angels level...

It was said (I don't remember if was Whis or Shin) that Zen'o can't be destroyed.

Only Daishinkan never showed any fear of Zen'o...

Maybe he could be able to scape or even seal Zen' o. But Zen'o has the ability to delete anyone and probably the angels too...

And finally. It was said that the super dragon balls doesn't have limit and Whis said it could kill even a god. Zen'o is a god.... If the dragon balls are able to kill him, Zalama is stronger than Zen'o. If it's not possible, Zen'o is the strongest one.
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Re: Grand Priest is stronger than Zeno

Post by buutenks » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:27 pm

No he isnt. Zeno is the most powerful. Think people have rode this rebellion of angels and evil GP train long enough, give it a rest already.

The angels and GP r neutral, they have no reason to fear Zeno since they dont have a job to do, they are simply glorified guides.

It is amusing people expect deep stuff from a simple show as DB.

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