Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

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lancerman
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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:43 pm

Totamo wrote:
lancerman wrote:
SsjCookie wrote:
True, the false expectations that were given by the show gave the fans the impression that they would finally see some of their favourite characters shine for a change.
But did that happen?
With the exception of 17, Freeza and Roshi, Mostly not!

Tien was completely wasted and Krillin was not much better.
Gohan and Piccolo I had the most hopes for, but their fights were underwhelming and unsatisfactory and added nothing in the way of battle tension.
You would never think they were fighting for their lives the way they fought. :yawn:
18 was mediocre at best.
These are NOT mediocre characters, they deserved more!

As of now, I think 17 was the most impressive of this tournament so far. Not Goku or Vegeta.
They hyped every character in the tournament. Kuriren got some episodes, Gohan and Piccolo got multiple episodes, 17 got some some episodes, Tenshinhan and Roshi got episodes, Freeza got some episodes, Vegeta was in the background constantly, 18 was in most Kuriren episodes as well.

The fact is, some characters were going to get knocked out early. People were already complaining that U7 did so well and that their characters got the most eliminations and lasted on average the longest.
You are also right, I knew for a fact, not everyone would be satisfied with the performance of their favorite character.


Hell, some where even angry that roshi did so well.

My point was, Super had a chance to give them something GT didn't, side characters fighting by Goku side and while its efforts should be commended, it would be lie to say they couldn't have done more.

I love me some Krillin and I don't think he was wasted more like he was underused and overhyped and I don't blame that one on Toriyama, that was all Toei.
We still did get more than GT though. Kuriren got a couple of episodes solely dedicated to him and his character. He got zero in GT. He died in part of an episode and he had a brief sparring match in an episode where a million other things were going on. He didn't even factor into any major battles in GT. He was absent the Black Star arc, a slave in the Baby arc, died after a brief appearance in the Super 17 arc, and was dead the last arc.

Could they have done more? Absolutely. At the same time, I'll mention it again, people on here were freaking out that U7 got so much more focus in the tournament as it was and more people were freaking out that they were letting characters like Kuriren look like he could hang with SSB characters.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:45 pm

SsjCookie wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
lancerman wrote:
They hyped every character in the tournament. Kuriren got some episodes, Gohan and Piccolo got multiple episodes, 17 got some some episodes, Tenshinhan and Roshi got episodes, Freeza got some episodes, Vegeta was in the background constantly, 18 was in most Kuriren episodes as well.

The fact is, some characters were going to get knocked out early. People were already complaining that U7 did so well and that their characters got the most eliminations and lasted on average the longest.
It's not that he was eliminated early. It's that the only thing he did was throw a stinky shoe at a guy who could have been eliminated by basically anyone. They made him look like a clown.
This guy used to take on Freeza while ridiculously outmatched.
He was very impressive and not to mention RELEVANT in the DBZ Freeza saga.

Here in Super, he's just like you said put away as a clown.
He's only fighting for his family's survival people!

I mean really?! :thumbdown:
He did nothing in the last arc of Z because he was too weak, he did nothing in GT of consequence. Here he got to put down a few guys in the final arc of the series and had several episodes devoted to him.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by SSJ Human » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:54 pm

The only way I can feel content with Krillin's role in the tournament is to remind myself that Tien had less. Yes, him taking out a character that was on Super Saiyan level was impressive, but I felt it was brief and not on the level of other major send offs, a similar issue to what was done with 18. You had an entire episode of Vegeta's last stand against Jiren, which theoretically made no sense in the context of the story since Jiren knows there's only a minute or so left of the tournament and toys with him instead of throwing him out. But regardless, Vegeta was in my view done about as well as one can be this arc beyond the wanting him to beat Jiren crowd that I found myself in after it was only him, Frieza, and Goku left out of Universe 7's team. With Krillin, he's thrown out episodes into the tournament after getting supposed buildup to wanting to be of more use to his team. It's a similar issue I had with Gohan. They set both of them up as trying to hold their weight and the closest they get is taking out foes that Goku and Vegeta could have one-shot out of the tournament.

I think Krillin would have been better off remaining until the Universes 7 and 11 showdown and being the one that gets blasted out with Dyspo, and even this would only be after taking out some opponents of a higher level of power. That way he could have had a respectable time not sitting on the bench and had actually taken out one of the final three members of the other opposing team.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Totamo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:02 pm

lancerman wrote:
Totamo wrote:
lancerman wrote:
They hyped every character in the tournament. Kuriren got some episodes, Gohan and Piccolo got multiple episodes, 17 got some some episodes, Tenshinhan and Roshi got episodes, Freeza got some episodes, Vegeta was in the background constantly, 18 was in most Kuriren episodes as well.

The fact is, some characters were going to get knocked out early. People were already complaining that U7 did so well and that their characters got the most eliminations and lasted on average the longest.
You are also right, I knew for a fact, not everyone would be satisfied with the performance of their favorite character.


Hell, some where even angry that roshi did so well.

My point was, Super had a chance to give them something GT didn't, side characters fighting by Goku side and while its efforts should be commended, it would be lie to say they couldn't have done more.

I love me some Krillin and I don't think he was wasted more like he was underused and overhyped and I don't blame that one on Toriyama, that was all Toei.
We still did get more than GT though. Kuriren got a couple of episodes solely dedicated to him and his character. He got zero in GT. He died in part of an episode and he had a brief sparring match in an episode where a million other things were going on. He didn't even factor into any major battles in GT. He was absent the Black Star arc, a slave in the Baby arc, died after a brief appearance in the Super 17 arc, and was dead the last arc.

Could they have done more? Absolutely. At the same time, I'll mention it again, people on here were freaking out that U7 got so much more focus in the tournament as it was and more people were freaking out that they were letting characters like Kuriren look like he could hang with SSB characters.
Yep, like i said many hate roshi's fight.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by TajinRice » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:15 pm

I think Krillin fans got more than what was outlined. Participated in 3 eliminations. And saved his wife. The way the manga is headed believe its going to be far less. Krillin got the treatment exactly as we have known him before. And what Toriyama has been setting up for him since the Buu arc. Hes no longer a dedicated fighter and has confidence issues.

Tien on the other hand was actually wasted because it was not a reflection of who the character is. He's a fighter and would have been much more active. He did not use his four arm technique. No Dodonpa, no volley ball fist, No laser eyes. We got to see a lot of old characters techniques.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by lancerman » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:03 am

Has Kuriren even beat a villain in any arc? He beat Bacterian I guess. He was absent most of the Red Ribbon Army arc. He beat Chaozu, before jobbing to Goku. Got killed by Tamborine to kick off the King Piccolo arc. He jobbed to Piccolo in the 2rd tournament. He was the only human who didn't die in the Saiyan arc I guess even though his contribution was killing a few Saibamen and missing Vegeta with the spirit bomb. I think he offed a few grunts in the Freeza arc but largely got fakeout killed and then killed in the big fight. He did nothing really in the Cell arc. Was a background character in the Boo arc.

This literally might be a top 3 arc for Kuriren (the first tournament and the Freeza arc being the only ones that compare imo)

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Spider-Man » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:46 am

Kinda because the way how he got eliminated and he didn't even teamup with Tien and #17 but at least his fight with Majora was good,Tien on the other hand is wasted this guy could not even a legit focus episode :(

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by TajinRice » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:57 pm

I feel Toei gave people false hype that would not lead to any reward. The two episodes of Krillin regaining his fighting spirit. The glowing fist. Defeating the Super Dragon lol. The ring out of Gohan. Even though Gohan just fought a battle and won with the conditions of can't see or sense his enemy. Yet Krillin gets him under the same circumstances? Makes no sense story telling wise. Which is a huge problem with Super. Too many writers and staff not communicating or trying to keep a consistent continuity. Even if Goku was using 1% of SSB, Krillin should not have been able to beam struggle with him. Gokus Kamehameha should have eaten up Krillins and vaporized him. Even Krillin throwing deadly Kienzan disk at his best friend in a friendly match is bad writing. It all predicates on Goku Dodging. Dialogue even hyped of strategy over strength. When that turned out to be completely untrue. As U7 fighters have been seemingly eliminated by strength. They made Roshi stronger that Krillin and TIen. So maybe this wont be the case in the manga and we can say there was a little bit of thinking behind it.

Take away the pre-hype I do not think people will be as disappointed. Krillin in Revival of Freeza was a retired fighter since the Buu arc. In the manga Krillin says hes out of shape and is the most hesitant to join. And seemingly the only one lied to about the 10 million zeni. So whatever Krillin does in the manga 1 or 2 eliminations before Frost eliminates him for being careless. It will make sense for the character and how he has been written and portrayed since the Buu arc.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:08 pm

Krillin was not wasted but the way he got out of bounds was plain disrespectful.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Akyon » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:03 pm

TajinRice wrote: Take away the pre-hype I do not think people will be as disappointed. Krillin in Revival of Freeza was a retired fighter since the Buu arc. In the manga Krillin says hes out of shape and is the most hesitant to join. And seemingly the only one lied to about the 10 million zeni. So whatever Krillin does in the manga 1 or 2 eliminations before Frost eliminates him for being careless. It will make sense for the character and how he has been written and portrayed since the Buu arc.
Very much this. Those three or four episodes dedicated to Krillin 'getting his groove back', obtaining two new moves in the ki fists things and the Solar Flare X 100, Goku stating Krillin is very much needed to Gohan AND Krillin himself, as well as Beerus seemingly foreshadowing Krillin must "Stay hidden and survive to the end" in any other series would have pay off. Here it just seems like shitty writing because Toei foreshadowed and added things they couldn't really deliver on.

I doubt anyone would be disappointed at all if we weren't given all this "Krillin is important guys" build up prior to the tournament.

It hit other characters too such as Gohan who was stating he'd find his own path that isn't SSJ to keep up...and is literally the only Saiyan in the tournament to NOT get a new power up this arc(Goku: Ultra Instinct, Vegeta: SSJ Royal Blue, Cabba: SSJ2, Caulifla: SSJ2. Kale: Perfected Berserk form, and the girls got Kefla too).
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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by SsjCookie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:07 am

Akyon wrote:
TajinRice wrote: Take away the pre-hype I do not think people will be as disappointed. Krillin in Revival of Freeza was a retired fighter since the Buu arc. In the manga Krillin says hes out of shape and is the most hesitant to join. And seemingly the only one lied to about the 10 million zeni. So whatever Krillin does in the manga 1 or 2 eliminations before Frost eliminates him for being careless. It will make sense for the character and how he has been written and portrayed since the Buu arc.
Very much this. Those three or four episodes dedicated to Krillin 'getting his groove back', obtaining two new moves in the ki fists things and the Solar Flare X 100, Goku stating Krillin is very much needed to Gohan AND Krillin himself, as well as Beerus seemingly foreshadowing Krillin must "Stay hidden and survive to the end" in any other series would have pay off. Here it just seems like shitty writing because Toei foreshadowed and added things they couldn't really deliver on.

I doubt anyone would be disappointed at all if we weren't given all this "Krillin is important guys" build up prior to the tournament.

It hit other characters too such as Gohan who was stating he'd find his own path that isn't SSJ to keep up...and is literally the only Saiyan in the tournament to NOT get a new power up this arc(Goku: Ultra Instinct, Vegeta: SSJ Royal Blue, Cabba: SSJ2, Caulifla: SSJ2. Kale: Perfected Berserk form, and the girls got Kefla too).

False advertising at it's best.
Nothing ever came of the promised big moment of Gohan, Piccolo and Krillin, no matter what people say.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Raphael_Z » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:56 am

Out of the 3 Earthlings, Krilin was the only "straight-forward fighter" and is therefore the least useful fighter of U7 (Roshi used hax to take out way stronger opponents while Tien has the third eye plus the multiplication technique). Anything that Krilin could potentially do, the other 9 fighters could do better one way or the other.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Akyon » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:57 pm

Raphael_Z wrote:Out of the 3 Earthlings, Krilin was the only "straight-forward fighter" and is therefore the least useful fighter of U7 (Roshi used hax to take out way stronger opponents while Tien has the third eye plus the multiplication technique). Anything that Krilin could potentially do, the other 9 fighters could do better one way or the other.
That third eye doesn't actually do anything as far as I recall and the multipication technique divides your power between the amount of clones you make equally so it's not exactly advantageous.

Tenshinhan's biggest use if given the time he deserved would be his absurdly large bag of tricks to fall back on, but sadly he only got to use two in total in the tournament, one of which made him four times weaker.

Krillin's main useful skill has always been his pragmatism and on the fly thinking as stated by Goku in the recruitment part of this arc, and as demonstrated in the Dragonball tournaments of yesteryear as well as the Saiyan saga and Namek.
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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:04 pm

Well while the anime gave Krillin some spotlight, looks like the manga version dropped the ball. Well at least Tien was consistent between both mediums, not thats much better
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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by precita » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:34 pm

Krillin should have lasted a little longer but at least he had a solid episode.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Miracles » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:26 pm

They weren't wasted. They were used in both plots of the TOP. In the anime they had fights, the problem was they both were bad and boring. In the manga; sacrificed for Freeza's cause to erase Frost and U9.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Jackalope89 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:46 pm

Miracles wrote:They weren't wasted. They were used in both plots of the TOP. In the anime they had fights, the problem was they both were bad and boring. In the manga; sacrificed for Freeza's cause to erase Frost and U9.
So, plot devices over being actual characters then?

Gotcha.

Anime at least let them have a couple of fights. Hell, throw a couple of punches. The manga? They were a prop. :problem:

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Miracles » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:57 pm

Jackalope89 wrote:
Miracles wrote:They weren't wasted. They were used in both plots of the TOP. In the anime they had fights, the problem was they both were bad and boring. In the manga; sacrificed for Freeza's cause to erase Frost and U9.
So, plot devices over being actual characters then?

Gotcha.

Anime at least let them have a couple of fights. Hell, throw a couple of punches. The manga? They were a prop. :problem:
It has everything to do with circumstances. They ran into a heavy hitter in a chaotic environment which broke up their team circle and were KO'd cause of it in the manga.
In the anime they were able to stand there and wait for other weaklings to come at them. Yeah they fought but their fights were badly done.

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Re: Why Krillin wasn't wasted in TOP

Post by Lionel » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:22 pm

Freeza aligned the crosshairs of Frost's sights so that they would put the earthlings into focus and on the executioner's list. Taking down Krillin, Tenshinhan, and Roshi wouldn't have diminished Frost's ki by much as he literally withstood their strongest possible attack with no scuffs to his body in a suppressed state. It would be like sending three Nails off to face Freeza in his first form in the hopes that they'll drain enough of his stamina when it required virtually no effort for the tyrant to handle one in the first place. The most Freeza's conspiratorial scheming got by marking the earthlings was a presumptive entrustment of security in the eyes of Frost. He was already willing to collaborate with Freeza, though. Sending him after the other universes at full strength without taking out the earthlings would have achieved more or less the same result.

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