Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
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Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
I mean, sure Goku has always been thinking less, but lets face it, both him and Vegeta have been fighting the same way throughout all of Super and even in the TOP, they were far from UI, the way Goku achieved it had nothing to do with his prior training or because he had the necessary skill level to use UI, it was just because he broke through his shell and unlocked his hidden power. Vegeta did the same, but instead got a regular power up from Blue but still nothing compred to UI.
Why is that? I think it's Goku's main character plot armor. Do you think there's any logical reason to that? (not headcanon).
Why is that? I think it's Goku's main character plot armor. Do you think there's any logical reason to that? (not headcanon).
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
1. Whis did say it would be easier for Goku to fight since he fights more naturally while Vegeta thinks more or something like that
2. Goku almost always gets the new form before Vegeta. Super Saiyan 1, Super Saiyan 3 , Super Saiyan God and how MUI
3. Whenever the next series starts up , Vegeta will have UI as well whether it’s in hisnew sparkly blue form or something else is yet to be determined
2. Goku almost always gets the new form before Vegeta. Super Saiyan 1, Super Saiyan 3 , Super Saiyan God and how MUI
3. Whenever the next series starts up , Vegeta will have UI as well whether it’s in hisnew sparkly blue form or something else is yet to be determined
Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Because Goku is a simple-minded man who is allowed to dichotomically be described as a masterful genius of battle while at the same time have just the right amount of one-dimensional thinking process to be considered the most eligible for an ability that essentially relies on the same autonomous principle as the "fight or flight" reaction phenomenon. Compared with Vegeta, he epitomises the "have your cake and eat it too" idea.
Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Because othe "migatte no protagonism". He is the main character. Vegeta should have been able to get the unmastered UI.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Vegeta just needs Goku to hit him with a Spirit Bomb and he'll be good to go!
Really, it's most likely what he said a few episodes back. He's a very proud and arrogant person and he couldn't or didn't want to put that aside.
Really, it's most likely what he said a few episodes back. He's a very proud and arrogant person and he couldn't or didn't want to put that aside.
Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Vegeta's sense of self is tied into his personality and his family. Gokuu doesn't really have those sorts of ties, therefore he is able to more easily give himself over to a state of selflessness. Gokuu wants to fight, it's coded into his being, therefore when you boil him down to his essentials it makes perfect sense that his epitome would manifest as the Mastery of Selflessness.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
It all comes down to a few key defining features that Goku displays.
His love of fighting is pure and simple; he fights to become stronger, and gets stronger to fight, rinse and repeat.
His emotional state is also rather simplistic; he cares about his friends and respects his enemies, nothing really like grudges or malice.
Goku is a man who eats, sleeps, plays, fights, trains, and repeats it all as a student of the Turtle School. He's about as mindless about things in life as a person could be without veering into unhealthy territory. His body wants to fight, and his mind is in complete agreement with this urge. Because he pursues no specific goal in particular, he can freely empty his mind and simply go with the flow.
Vegeta, however, is very focused, a bit too focused to really be able to simply let go and go with the flow; his goal of surpassing Kakarot is very specific and centered, as are his ties to his family and the Saiyans of Universe 6. His mind is always too focused on other things; it's never really clear.
His love of fighting is pure and simple; he fights to become stronger, and gets stronger to fight, rinse and repeat.
His emotional state is also rather simplistic; he cares about his friends and respects his enemies, nothing really like grudges or malice.
Goku is a man who eats, sleeps, plays, fights, trains, and repeats it all as a student of the Turtle School. He's about as mindless about things in life as a person could be without veering into unhealthy territory. His body wants to fight, and his mind is in complete agreement with this urge. Because he pursues no specific goal in particular, he can freely empty his mind and simply go with the flow.
Vegeta, however, is very focused, a bit too focused to really be able to simply let go and go with the flow; his goal of surpassing Kakarot is very specific and centered, as are his ties to his family and the Saiyans of Universe 6. His mind is always too focused on other things; it's never really clear.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
We see post Trunks arc, Goku's training was a bit different, hired Hit to hone his senses more meanwhile Vegeta was still doing stagnant training with Whis. While waiting for Hit they even teased UI by having Goku instinctively dodge Bulma the point it was enough for Goten and Gohan to comment on it as they said Goku always allows Bulma to hit him. And clearly he spent time developing SSGSS KK to the point he can use it albeit in short bursts without making it a toll on his body, so who knows what other off screen training he did between Trunks arc and the start of U.S arc.
Also about breaking the limit, Vegeta doesn't necessarily have to have the same limit's as Goku. UI maybe something Vegeta never can get.
Also about breaking the limit, Vegeta doesn't necessarily have to have the same limit's as Goku. UI maybe something Vegeta never can get.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Huh....... you're right. Goku also wondered why he dodged one time when he had his first fight against Beerus on King Kai's planet.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:We see post Trunks arc, Goku's training was a bit different, hired Hit to hone his senses more meanwhile Vegeta was still doing stagnant training with Whis. While waiting for Hit they even teased UI by having Goku instinctively dodge Bulma the point it was enough for Goten and Gohan to comment on it as they said Goku always allows Bulma to hit him. And clearly he spent time developing SSGSS KK to the point he can use it albeit in short bursts without making it a toll on his body, so who knows what other off screen training he did between Trunks arc and the start of U.S arc.
Also about breaking the limit, Vegeta doesn't necessarily have to have the same limit's as Goku. UI maybe something Vegeta never can get.
Maybe Resurrection of F wasn't the only time the Ultra Instinct was foreshadowed.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
It definitely seems like a subtle thing they were building towards, intentionally or not doesn't matter, it is still pretty cool nonetheless and this is why I prefer taking the retellings into account as my definitive versions of the BoG and "F" stories as I think the retellings fit much better with the narrative of DBS.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Huh....... you're right. Goku also wondered why he dodged one time when he had his first fight against Beerus on King Kai's planet.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:We see post Trunks arc, Goku's training was a bit different, hired Hit to hone his senses more meanwhile Vegeta was still doing stagnant training with Whis. While waiting for Hit they even teased UI by having Goku instinctively dodge Bulma the point it was enough for Goten and Gohan to comment on it as they said Goku always allows Bulma to hit him. And clearly he spent time developing SSGSS KK to the point he can use it albeit in short bursts without making it a toll on his body, so who knows what other off screen training he did between Trunks arc and the start of U.S arc.
Also about breaking the limit, Vegeta doesn't necessarily have to have the same limit's as Goku. UI maybe something Vegeta never can get.
Maybe Resurrection of F wasn't the only time the Ultra Instinct was foreshadowed.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Well, it's migatte no Gokui, not migatte no Vegetui
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
1- Goku is a more gifted fighter.
2- He may have gotten more out of his training with Whis.
3- The spirit bomb hitting him head on may have had something to do with it, something Vegeta didn't go through.
4- He's the main character so no one can outshine him, no matter how little of an impact it'll have on the overall story.
2- He may have gotten more out of his training with Whis.
3- The spirit bomb hitting him head on may have had something to do with it, something Vegeta didn't go through.
4- He's the main character so no one can outshine him, no matter how little of an impact it'll have on the overall story.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Goku just wanted to fight Hit at his best and was on guard the entire day because he was afraid Hit would strike out of nowhere. His intent had nothing to do with UI. It was only one day anyway.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:We see post Trunks arc, Goku's training was a bit different, hired Hit to hone his senses more meanwhile Vegeta was still doing stagnant training with Whis. While waiting for Hit they even teased UI by having Goku instinctively dodge Bulma the point it was enough for Goten and Gohan to comment on it as they said Goku always allows Bulma to hit him. And clearly he spent time developing SSGSS KK to the point he can use it albeit in short bursts without making it a toll on his body, so who knows what other off screen training he did between Trunks arc and the start of U.S arc.
Also about breaking the limit, Vegeta doesn't necessarily have to have the same limit's as Goku. UI maybe something Vegeta never can get.
He got it by breaking through his shell so the training he did prior are not really a factor. It's like you said, maybe Vegeta can never have UI because his hidden power is different.
Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Isn't it mastery of selfishness though?JulieYBM wrote:Gokuu wants to fight, it's coded into his being, therefore when you boil him down to his essentials it makes perfect sense that his epitome would manifest as the Mastery of Selflessness.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
I don't understand why people insist on citing that Vegeta did not get UI because of his personality, when in fact not even Goku himself got the UI in a '' conventional '' way, he was swallowed by a Genki Dama to be able to use the technique after '' breaking the shell ''.
In this case, Whis's teachings regarding the UI have no connection with Goku having awakened this technique.
And the reason Vegeta did not wake the UI is simple
script
He did the same training as Goku, participated in the same battles and was in situations as extreme as Goku. He could have awakened the UI, but he didn't use because of script.
In this case, Whis's teachings regarding the UI have no connection with Goku having awakened this technique.
And the reason Vegeta did not wake the UI is simple
script
He did the same training as Goku, participated in the same battles and was in situations as extreme as Goku. He could have awakened the UI, but he didn't use because of script.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Plot. As always. It’s the only reason that explains everything 100% of the time with perfect accuracy. It happens because Toriyama and Toei want it to happen. Vegeta is not getting it this time because it’s Goku’s show and Goku’s turn to achieve it first. Vegeta is up next though when the series returns.
Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
THIS.TheSaiyanGod wrote:I don't understand why people insist on citing that Vegeta did not get UI because of his personality, when in fact not even Goku himself got the UI in a '' conventional '' way, he was swallowed by a Genki Dama to be able to use the technique after '' breaking the shell ''.
In this case, Whis's teachings regarding the UI have no connection with Goku having awakened this technique.
And the reason Vegeta did not wake the UI is simple
script
He did the same training as Goku, participated in the same battles and was in situations as extreme as Goku. He could have awakened the UI, but he didn't use because of script.
Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
Because Goku simply is and will always be better than Vegeta. Dragon Ball is Goku's story, not Vegeta's. Vegeta obtaining UI would take away from Goku's arc and moment.
Now if you want to go with what the show tells us, Goku's limits are higher than Vegeta's, hence why Vegeta simply evolved SSB while Goku mastered the technique of the Gods. And Whis dropped plenty of hints that UI would be much more difficult if not impossible to obtain for Vegeta due to his fighting style. Finally, Goku is always one step ahead of Vegeta. This shouldn't even be a debate.
Now if you want to go with what the show tells us, Goku's limits are higher than Vegeta's, hence why Vegeta simply evolved SSB while Goku mastered the technique of the Gods. And Whis dropped plenty of hints that UI would be much more difficult if not impossible to obtain for Vegeta due to his fighting style. Finally, Goku is always one step ahead of Vegeta. This shouldn't even be a debate.
Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
The Genki-dama is a shock to Gokuu's system for sure but still it only threw him into the physical and spiritual mindset to instinctively tap into the principles that Whis was trying to instill in him.TheSaiyanGod wrote:I don't understand why people insist on citing that Vegeta did not get UI because of his personality, when in fact not even Goku himself got the UI in a '' conventional '' way, he was swallowed by a Genki Dama to be able to use the technique after '' breaking the shell ''.
In this case, Whis's teachings regarding the UI have no connection with Goku having awakened this technique.
And the reason Vegeta did not wake the UI is simple
script
He did the same training as Goku, participated in the same battles and was in situations as extreme as Goku. He could have awakened the UI, but he didn't use because of script.
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Re: Why could Goku achieve UI but Vegeta couldn't?
TheSaiyanGod wrote:I don't understand why people insist on citing that Vegeta did not get UI because of his personality, when in fact not even Goku himself got the UI in a '' conventional '' way, he was swallowed by a Genki Dama to be able to use the technique after '' breaking the shell '.
In this case, Whis's teachings regarding the UI have no connection with Goku having awakened this technique.
And the reason Vegeta did not wake the UI is simple
script
He did the same training as Goku, participated in the same battles and was in situations as extreme as Goku. He could have awakened the UI, but he didn't use because of script.
If Goku breaking through his shell is all this form is then why can't he used the form willingly like He can with every other form he got the same way.
Ultra instinct is your body moving by itself and thats what whis said it would do in Rof and he explained why goku would get it and why Vegeta couldn't. The spirti bomb was the trigger, not the whole reason. To say such, would be to ignore everything about the scene and what the form has done
By the way, No Vegeta has not been in an extreme situation like Goku was in this tournament, his attack created a mini blackhole and almost killed him. Also same training doesn't equal same results for all. ton of people trained under king kai, yet only Goku mastered his techniques and this isn't just a Goku thing. The humans got better results under kami in 1 year than Goku did in 3, Gohan got better results in the time chamber than any of the other 3.
By the way script rules all, including Vegeta's moments. Thats a dumb thing to say.
Then again I'm a Goku fanboy but then again, you're a Vegeta fanboy.